Developer Takes Down Ruby Library After He Finds Out ICE Was Using It (zdnet.com) 463
An anonymous reader quotes a report from ZDNet: A software engineer pulled a personal project down after he found out that one of the companies using it had recently signed a contract with the U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE). The engineer, Seth Vargo, cited the ICE's "inhumane treatment, denial of basic human rights, and detaining children in cages," as the reason for taking down his library. The project was called Chef Sugar, a Ruby library for simplifying work with Chef, a platform for configuration management. Varga developed and open-sourced the library while he worked at Chef, and the library was later integrated into Chef's source code.
Earlier this week, a Twitter user discovered that Chef was selling $95,000-worth of licenses through a government contractor to the ICE. The news didn't go well with Vargo, who, yesterday, September 19, took down the Chef Sugar library from both GitHub and RubyGems, the main Ruby package repository, in a sign of protest. "I have a moral and ethical obligation to prevent my source from being used for evil," Vargo wrote on the now-empty Chef Sugar GitHub repository. Vargo's actions didn't go unnoticed, and in a blog post published later in the day, Chef Software CEO Barry Crist said the incident impacted "production systems for a number of our customers." The Chef team fixed the issue by scouring some of the older Chef Sugar source code and re-uploading it on their own GitHub account. Following public criticism of the contract, Chef Software CEO Barry Crist responded by saying the company had been a long-time ICE collaborator for years, since the previous administration, long before ICE became the hated agency it is today.
"While I understand that many of you and many of our community members would prefer we had no business relationship with DHS-ICE, I have made a principled decision, with the support of the Chef executive team, to work with the institutions of our government, regardless of whether or not we personally agree with their various policies," Crist said.
"I want to be clear that this decision is not about contract value - it is about maintaining a consistent and fair business approach in these volatile times. I do not believe that it is appropriate, practical, or within our mission to examine specific government projects with the purpose of selecting which U.S. agencies we should or should not do business," Crist added.
Earlier this week, a Twitter user discovered that Chef was selling $95,000-worth of licenses through a government contractor to the ICE. The news didn't go well with Vargo, who, yesterday, September 19, took down the Chef Sugar library from both GitHub and RubyGems, the main Ruby package repository, in a sign of protest. "I have a moral and ethical obligation to prevent my source from being used for evil," Vargo wrote on the now-empty Chef Sugar GitHub repository. Vargo's actions didn't go unnoticed, and in a blog post published later in the day, Chef Software CEO Barry Crist said the incident impacted "production systems for a number of our customers." The Chef team fixed the issue by scouring some of the older Chef Sugar source code and re-uploading it on their own GitHub account. Following public criticism of the contract, Chef Software CEO Barry Crist responded by saying the company had been a long-time ICE collaborator for years, since the previous administration, long before ICE became the hated agency it is today.
"While I understand that many of you and many of our community members would prefer we had no business relationship with DHS-ICE, I have made a principled decision, with the support of the Chef executive team, to work with the institutions of our government, regardless of whether or not we personally agree with their various policies," Crist said.
"I want to be clear that this decision is not about contract value - it is about maintaining a consistent and fair business approach in these volatile times. I do not believe that it is appropriate, practical, or within our mission to examine specific government projects with the purpose of selecting which U.S. agencies we should or should not do business," Crist added.
Fragmentation (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Fragmentation (Score:5, Insightful)
You can always buy something commercial if you have problem with private developers exercising their legal rights...
Re:Fragmentation (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Fragmentation (Score:5, Insightful)
Couching the issue under "legal rights" doesn't actually change the problem, nor answer the question. Yes, or no? Are open source users going to have to worry about politics? If so then who's the real winners here? Open source has had enough problems getting and maintaining it's position. Does it need to manufacture new reasons not to be using it?
Re:Fragmentation (Score:5, Insightful)
What's worse is that's how this started. A company started selling a commercial option that somehow depended on a public, GitHub repo.
Chef Software CEO Barry Crist said the incident impacted "production systems for a number of our customers."
If I'm paying "Chef" to run their product they damn well better be self hosting everything.
Re:Fragmentation (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, those supporting immoral actions deserve to, at minimum, be mocked. And his justifications are for maintaining business relationships with ICE are, while not frivolous, certainly not of the same level. So being mocked is less than he deserves.
That said, he is within his legal rights. That I may think he's an immoral bastard doesn't change the law.
This is a problem that FOSS has had to deal with since day one. There probably *is* no good solution. And if you put in your license that some government can't use your software for some purpose, they'll just forgive themselves for breaking the license.
Re: (Score:2)
As if it wasn't fragmented enough already---especially if you consider interoperability in addition to all of the different licenses.
Re: (Score:2)
Is the entirety of free software going to become fragmented by software licenses that specify that this government organization or that political group is not allowed to use it? Licensing is confusing enough already without politics being brought into it.
The program in question was licenced under straight Apache, the author just removed the repository. Licences which discriminate against fields of endeavor are afaik generally considered non-free (at least I know that is debians position). So to answer your question: No.
Racist Software License (Score:3, Insightful)
specify that this government organization or that political group is not allowed to use it?
Oh, it's going to get much better! Software licenses will soon specify that only people of this race may use the software or people of that race may not use it.
This will be problematic for mean, because I don't what race I am. My parents refused to tell me. On forms I always check the box labeled "Other" and then write in "Unknown".
Re:Racist Software License (Score:5, Insightful)
That means that anything you do is cultural appropriation. But, on the up side, as long as you don't look white no one will call you on it.
Re: (Score:2)
If you don't like it feel free not to use it.
Re: (Score:2)
Stick to GPL or BSD stuff if this is an issue, and don't expect the owner to do free work for you.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
It was Apache licensed. He removed the repository.
Re: (Score:2)
No, because I don't their their even exists any OS software licences that allow that, and it would probably be illegal anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
You can make any license you want, discrimination is only illegal against protected classes. I've seen licences that restricts use for developing nuclear arms and for only being used for good not evil, they were all considered non-free and either changed or faded to obscurity.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes. Anyone who helped ICE deport illegal immigrants, however, was supporting federal law about immigration. I hope you can see the distinction?
US immigration policy has often been racist, there is long historical evidence of this. See https://cmsny.org/from-the-cms... [cmsny.org] . But there are enough more immigrants seeking entry to the US every year, including illegal and legal, than we can absorb without a major restructuring of our economy, so some controls are needed. The controls are inconsistent and often cor
Re:Fragmentation (Score:4, Insightful)
That seems to be a related but distinct point. The number who would enter with no enforcement of immigration laws is _much_ larger than the peak of illegal immigration or the number today. It's difficult to predict how many would arrive, but based on those peak numbers, an estimate of 1 million immigrants nationally is not unreasonable. That would devastate a lot of local economies, and some national industries..
Re: (Score:3)
It remains 'false facts' until we get access to a machine that can show us alternate realities in which this has already been done so we can see for certain the effects.
Let's play this out as a thought experiment. The US drops all immigration policy; if you can find your way into the country no one is going to stop you.
We have airplanes. We have them all over the world. The US is never more than ~24 hours away if you can just get on board the airplane. You would become the solution to EUROPE's immigration p
Re: (Score:3)
Don't know what statistics you're looking at but afaik consensus is that illegal immigration to the US peaked over a decade ago and has been on the decline ever since.
Well, you said illegal immigration peaked over a decade ago (true) and has been on the decline ever since (false). The graph I provided shows that in 2019, it has risen to the highest level in the past 5 years, and if you follow the link you provided(https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/ which will lead you ultimately to https://www.cbp.gov/sites/defa... [cbp.gov]), you will see that 2019 is the highest it has been in a decade (2009 - 2019). So no, it hasn't been on the decline ever sinc
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Fragmentation (Score:4, Informative)
Based on what credible evidence? I know people that work in it, and see how damn hard they work with limited resources to do their best to maintain a degree of humanity. The press cherry picks the worst bits and sensationalises it. And there's a ready market for indignation and accusation out there.
What you're actually advocating is the removal of an agency that does its best, and have even sterner policies in place (really bad) or an open door policy (welcome to being the world's crime central, and an economic dive).
Making it about race is, frankly, very racist of you assuming that, and shows a huge degree of bigotry on your part.
Re: Fragmentation (Score:2)
Regardless of whether the are doing their best, they are complicit in upholding a corrupt system. Children are effectively being separated from their families and being placed in prison in horrid conditions. I'm sure some of the Nazis were just trying their best, too.
Re: Fragmentation (Score:5, Insightful)
Children are separated from the families when they commit crimes every day. Why are these parents still subjecting their children to this?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Children are separated from the families when they commit crimes every day. Why are these parents still subjecting their children to this?
Because responsible parents would protect their children by allowing death squads in their home country to murder them? /snark
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Ludicrous hyperbole does not help your case, quite the opposite. These folks aren't fleeing murderous regimes, they're economic migrants.
Re: Fragmentation (Score:5, Interesting)
A better question is if you have to incarcerate those parents. Crossing the border illegally* carries a fine and six month sentence maximum on the first offence. For comparable crimes, particularly first offences and where children are involved, the parents would not usually be separated from them. Even in the US, in other countries certainly not.
Some countries set up facilities to house those families while their claims are processed. Obviously it helps if there are sufficient resources to process them quickly.
I'd also add that if you provide more legal paths for people to use they will use them, and you will have fewer illegal border crossings. Current extremely long wait times at border crossings, six months or more, and the lack of legal ways to immigrate, is exacerbating the problem.
* note that crossing the border in order to claim asylum is not illegal.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That's what the port of entry is for. You can claim political asylum, refugee status and a few other internationally recognised statuses. What is actually internationally known as being illegal is to attempt entry anywhere that is not port of entry (immigrations).
The separation of children is because immigration is large, and children need extra facilities. Otherwise you game the system by kidnapping a child and taking it with you (which does happen with illegal immigration, and is a huge factor, but nob
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Anyone who helps ICE abuse humans is the enemy of humans.
Anyone who works to prevent ICE from removing criminal aliens from the country is helping to abuse those criminals' victims. In just a month and a half, our local "sanctuary" county's policies of sheltering criminal illegal aliens has allowed 8 people here illegally to walk out of local detention without the existing deportation orders on their heads being enforced, and those eight went on to sexually assault young women. And that's 8 young women and/or their families who weren't too scared of these guys a
Re:Fragmentation (Score:5, Interesting)
Behold, a disgusting villainization of all immigrants
What? We're talking about people in the country illegally, who have committed crimes, who have had deportation orders assigned by judges because of those crimes, and who are being sheltered by a local government so that as they are released from custody, they are able to walk back out into the community instead of being deported as a judge has ordered. And then go on to commit more crimes. In this case, we have a rash of all sorts of crime, but the sexual assaults are particularly glaring. Why do you assume this has anything to do with "all immigrants?"
This willingness to participate in vile modern-day blood libel
Get off your sanctimonious high horse. We're talking about repeat offenders, many who have been deported multiple times, and who are NOT seeking asylum, and - because of their crime history - would never be granted asylum even if they did try to do so legally. You trying to wish that away is grotesque. You assuming that this has anything to do with a particular race is YOUR racism showing, not anyone else's.
Re:Fragmentation (Score:5, Insightful)
and perhaps pretend are the only people being held under terrible conditions
What? MILLIONS of people in the country illegally are not being "held" at all - they're out and about in the country, doing what they like. We're talking about people that judges have found should be DEPORTED BECAUSE THEY'VE COMMITTED CRIMES, but because of virtue signalling local lefty governments, are released from prison without those judges' orders being followed, because the local government is deliberately sheltering them, and allowing them to go on to commit more crimes. There is no "being held" in the discussion, here. In the types of cases being mentioned, they were able to commit the reported sexual assaults because they are NOT being held. How is it you are unable to process that information?
being separated from their children by ICE
You're so busy repeating social justice keyboard warrior talking points that you can't even trouble yourself to know the difference between Border Patrol, Health & Human Services, and ICE. It's hard to say if it's worth addressing your nonsense when you're so deliberately ignorant - but you're probably PRETENDING to be ignorant so you can pretend to sound angry in hopes that other uninformed people will fall for your lazy talking points. Never the less: ICE has NOTHING TO DO with processing children in the company of adults who are caught sneaking across the border without going through legal channels at a port of entry. Many of those children turn out to not be related in any way to the adults who are using them as border crossing props, and you know it. Border Control has to get to the bottom of that before just sending the kids out into the country in advance of a months-away hearing that most will not even show up for. Meanwhile, the adults who had them face a range of legal proceedings based on their histories (especially repeat deportees) and the law - which Pelosi refuses to address - requires that the kids be separated from those adults in short order. Stop pretending you don't know this - you're embarrassing yourself.
It's despicable bigoted horseshit
Why are you assuming that illegal behavior has anything whatsoever to do with race? That's pretty offensive, isn't it?
Re: (Score:3)
Behold, a disgusting villainization of all immigrants...
Behold, a disgusting combination of virtue signaling coupled with an attempt to shame someone with different views than the author.
...many of which have committed no crimes other than illegal entry...
So you agree they are criminals, and it's reasonable to detain them (just like actual citizens) until they have their day in court.
...and are seeking asylum...
Nope, you'll find a strong correlation between people breaking the law and people getting in trouble for breaking the law. I'm not saying it's 100%, but you gotta admit law enforcement doesn't make a habit of incarcerating people who have broken no
Re:Fragmentation (Score:5, Informative)
Citation needed.
Down vote until proof is provided.
Quite pretending you didn't already know about this. Or, if you didn't, that it's not because you'd rather avoid being aware of it.
Below is a link to coverage (before the new, 8th case just happened) of the sort of thing we're talking about. In case you're worried about the choice of coverage being somehow biased, it's from the left-leaning, sanctuary-preaching Washington Post. Many other journalists have dug much deeper, and of course point out the much wider range of violent crimes beyond just the sexual assaults. We've lived for decades in the county in question, and personally in neighborhoods where our central America immigrant mom neighbors were afraid to let their kids out to play because of this kind of problem. We, and many of them, have left those neighborhoods because it's gotten so bad. The police are hamstrung by the sanctuary policies.
https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
Re: (Score:3)
From https://www.mymcmedia.org/tag/... [mymcmedia.org] (Montgomery Community Media)
* (Sept 3, 2019 ) POLICE SAY VIRGINIA MAN CHARGED WITH RAPE MAY HAVE MORE VICTIMS
* (April 16, 2019 ) MCPS HIRES EXTERNAL FIRM TO INVESTIGATE DAMASCUS SEXUAL ASSAULT CASE
* (April 12, 2019) POLICE SAY NORTH BETHESDA MAN CHARGED WITH RAPE MAY HAVE MORE VICTIMS
So, on a local news outlet - on a page specifically related to sexual assault, the top three most recent news stores span approximately twenty one weeks and there is no mention of MS13, sa
Re: (Score:3)
https://www.vice.com/en_us/art... [vice.com]
You could be next
Re: (Score:2)
Oh yeah, i know it. Both my parents being American citizens and one of them having been a Marine ATC in Korea ain't enough to prevent it, either. Thankfully i am a giant mutant and also pale AF so i am relatively unlikely to be shipped to sunny Mexico.
Probably should work on my Spanish just in case, though.
Re: Fragmentation (Score:2)
ICE is clearly part of the government and therefore definitionally part of the Establishment. Like immigration authorities everywhere in the would, they are not staffed by the nicest folks around.
On the other hand, the open borders unlimited immigration anti-ICE message is also being pushed by large and powerful faction of the political, financial, and media Establishment.
Looks like we're fucked one way, screwed the other way.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
We *could* be arresting illegal immigrants, imposing legal penalties for the misdemeanor they've committed, and deporting them.
Instead we're locking them in cages, taking away their kids without a paper trail to allow them to be reunited, and leaving them all to sleep on the ground without medical care or adequate sanitation.
That's not "enforcing the law", that's fucking over brown people because they can. And before you object, tell me this - there's plenty of white illegal immigrants in the country - why
Re: Fragmentation (Score:5, Informative)
Well, they tried to arrest the illegal immigrants, and deport them... but a bunch of people sue the government constantly, which holds up trials. Plus the arrested illegals have a tendency to flee as soon as released on bail, which means that you can't release them on bail.
At the same time, several states have refused to cooperate with the federal government, and deny the feds the use of better holding facilities. Partisans in Congress work to deny ICE the money it would need to build better facilities.
The states, activists, and partisan Congressfolk then point to the problem they created, and blame others for it.
By the way, white illegal immigrants are usually visa overstays - and they tend to go home when caught. They'd be caught a lot more often, too, if the funding for a tracking program hadn't been cut during the last Administration...
Re: Fragmentation (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe, just maybe, they should go after the people hiring the illegal immigrants, so there is no opportunity to get a job here, so they just go home? Oh wait, they tend to be Republicans, can't do that.
Re: (Score:3)
Yep. Like these ones [ice.gov], these ones [kfor.com], and this one [cnn.com]. Fucking California. Every. Single. Fucking. Time.
Re: (Score:3)
No, I think it should be treated like any crime. It’s not a violent offense. So tag and release with a court date. Also, I’m not complaining, this isn’t at the top of my concerns.
Re: Fragmentation (Score:5, Insightful)
So a person with zero immunization records and likely needing many vaccinations should just be released into the country with a court date?
Yeah, they have such huge incentive to show up. About the only way to verify anything they say about themselves very well may be scouring over their social media on their cellphones, except at the claimed level of desperation, none of these people have cellphones.
So really, you have zero way to verify who this person is, where they are from and where they are intending to go. You don't even know if the child(ren) with them are actually theirs.
Just letting everyone that shows up in and giving them a court date is a joke. That's open borders with a bunch of window dressing to make it look like some kind of process.
We have legal ways to immigrate here. I work with both green card holders and naturalized citizens so it's clearly very possible.
Re: Fragmentation (Score:4, Interesting)
So a person with zero immunization records and likely needing many vaccinations
What country do you think these people are coming from that they haven't been vaccinated? Do you know what country doesn't vaccinate?
I'll give you a hint: New York City has more cases of measles than Mexico.
Re: (Score:3)
I agree completely. Make hiring illegal immigrants a felony, and I'd bet good money the flood would slow to a trickle within a few years.
Better yet, provide a bounty for exposing such illegal employers: I imagine a great many immigrants would jump at $5,000 and/or expedited transition to legal status in exchange for providing proof that their employer knowingly hired them illegally.
Re: (Score:3)
Same way three criminal judges handle all the criminal cases in the U.S.: They don't. We hire enough judges to have some hope of actually handling the case load.
Re: (Score:3)
Also - if you get arrested for a misdemeanor, you're not going to spend any time in prison. If we want to make illegal immigration a crime we could do that, and then justifiably treat it like a crime - we haven't.
And if you were imprisoned for a crime, your pre-verbal children would be taken away and kept track of so that you could be reunited afterwards - not thrown undocumented into cages. The children have committed no crime, and we have a responsibility to care for them properly if we assume custody.
Re: (Score:3)
Wrong. One can only claim asylum in the first country they enter, or at a point of entry at the US if from Mexico. It's illegal to sneak across the border, get caught and THEN say "I claim asylum!". Allowing that is why the immigration courts have a one million case backlog for asylum cases. Easing up more will quickly increase that number exponentially.
Too Bad (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
too bad he doesn't want to go to prison. An action under coercion absolves that person of responsibility
Re: (Score:2)
ICE is the deepest of the deep state, a police force with absolutely no court having jurisdiction over it or any judicial accounting of any kind. They need to be abolished.
I'm afraid that 'abolished' in the case would mean 'deeper'...
Re: (Score:2)
So how, then, should a nation enforce the will of the people as to who should and shouldn't come across the border? I'm guessing you'll say "not at all", since you've always hated democracy.
Re: Too Bad (Score:5, Interesting)
Proven effective??? Almost 90% don't show up for the court date, that's why they have to be detained or sent back when caught. Ankle bracelets? There is a backlog of one million asylum cases right now and that number grows every day. The system has been overwhelmed, and that's been by design.
Re: Too Bad (Score:4, Insightful)
It really pisses me off that people proclaim that jail is inappropriate for lawbreakers.
Re: (Score:3)
Are you explicitly stating that: jail is the appropriate course of action for anybody crossing the border into the US, in violation of its laws, without first having claimed asylum?
I have no problem with that. People at risk of flight are often kept in jail until trial. Of course, sending them back immediately would be better and cheaper, and I think the current administration would prefer that option as well.
Re: (Score:2)
Every immigration department in every part of the civilised world is like that. You have no right of entry, and they're entirely free to detain you if you don't have the right papers and a good reason to be somewhere.
It's certainly been like that for well over a hundred years, and the world has shown that it works reasonably well. Oddly, now it's part of some 'great consipiracy', and people want it to go away, but nobody I've yet come across has a workable alternative.
Re:Too Bad (Score:5, Informative)
It was called the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), and it did the exact same job as ICE.
Before that, there were the Bureau of Immigration and the Bureau of Naturalization.
Before that, the Federal Office of Immigration.
Before that, the Office of the Superintendent of Immigration.
Before that, up until 1875, immigration was handled by the states.
Re: (Score:3)
Absolutely untrue. INS was broken up into three agencies, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), and U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP).
But then ICE was granted a host of new "anti-terrorism" mandates, were allowed to create these black ops "special response teams" and all of the accountability and jurisdictional protections were removed. Also,
Re: (Score:3)
It's PopeRatzo, about as left-wing as you can get. He hates the Government because Orange Man Bad. Never piped up once when children were caged under President Obama. Never denounced the thugs called Antifa for breaking nearly every law you can find. But ICE - completely under the jurisdiction of the Courts, and subject to oversight by the Courts and the Congress - he calls "unaccountable" because Orange Man Bad.
I'm still wondering how many dozens of illegal aliens he's hosting at his own home. Or does
Little Impact (Score:5, Insightful)
It sounds like his archiving had very little effect on the company. A minor inconvenience at most.
"long before ICE became the hated agency it is today."
ICE is a government agency that does the same job now as it did in the previous administration. If people malign it now it is because of their political ideology.
Re: (Score:2)
ummmm.... no. By directive their procedures have been changed. The job has changed. Previously detention was very short term. Now they are running child concentration camps.
Re:Little Impact (Score:5, Informative)
It's also different because we're now doing our best to reject political refugees from countries where we've interfered with the Democratic process by sponsoring or supporting coups, running guns into Mexico, and various assassinations. The CIA has treated Latin America like its private sandbox, and now we don't want to help clean up the mess we helped make.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Little Impact (Score:4, Interesting)
You mean how dare we actually follow the UN and International law, where application for asylum must be made in the first country entered [refworld.org]
You are misrepresenting the Article 26 provisions, as made clear in the first substantive sentence of the document you linked:
The UN agreement requires member states to grant asylum under the stated conditions if they are the first country of asylum. It in no way requires them to refuse asylum to asylum seekers for whom they are not the first country.
On the other hand, US law requires the government to grant asylum to qualifying applicants regardless of whether the US is the first country entered or not. Trump's actions are illegal and will eventually be struck down by the courts. The distinction Trump wants to draw isn't in the law, and adding it to the law would require an act of Congress -- something Trump has been notably awful at making happen, even before his party lost the House.
Re:Little Impact (Score:5, Informative)
You mean how dare we actually follow the UN and International law, where application for asylum must be made in the first country entered [refworld.org] - which would be Mexico. How DARE this Administration follow UN rules and international law! Especially after the previous Administration
If you bothered to read your own links you'd find that the concept of first country of asylum and the APD described is in fact the Asylum Procedures Directive an EU directive, afaik there is no UN resolution nor international law that bear any semblance to your claims. If you continue reading you'll find that it doesn't say what you claim it says and all the different exceptions among the EU countries.
To give you a quick rundown what it actually says it's that if you have been recognized as a refugee in one country you can not seek asylum in another provided that the first country is deemed safe enough and that they will take you back.
Re: Little Impact (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Now they are running child concentration camps.
Wow, you'll believe literally anything you see on TV, or read in a newspaper!
I think the problem we have with ICE (Score:3, Interesting)
Actual lefties paying attention to things like the concentration camps on the boarders are really, really nervous about ICE. It's the kind of organization that could easily transition into a secret police.
Let me ask you this, if you had to prove, right now, with a gun pointed at you, that you were a citizen, could you? And if the guy pointing that gun at you too
Re: Little Impact (Score:2)
Re: Little Impact (Score:4, Interesting)
Why do you keep quoting Taleb as authoritative?
I haven't read all his work but I will say that his notion of 'skin in the game' to keep people honest could not be more accurate. Let people who want to help illegals sponsor them and be responsible for their actions. If you aren't willing to put some skin in the game then you aren't very serious about the issue.
Re: (Score:2)
Means nothing of the kind. Part of making an ethical decision is knowing the context and the subject extremely well, with all competing factors, mitigations, taking into account knockon effects of any intervention.
He did none of this, simply going off on an ideological dogmatic knee jerk "cancel". Cancel culture is pretty much going to eat itself (or its surrounding environment, to the detriment of all), and is nothing more informed that a petulant "I'm going to hold my breath" childish outburst.
I appreci
One reason to limit third party usage in your code (Score:5, Interesting)
When I work on projects I try very hard to limit those third party projects that get incorporated into the source kit to those that absolutely must be used, that provide functionality that we cannot easily recreate ourselves.
One reason for that is simplicity of maintenance: many third party libraries don't really add all that much, or provide a different way to do something the native OS API can also easily provide, or are simply exist for the sake of "The Churn." [cleancoder.com]
But in light of acts like this, another valid reason is because a third party library provider may simply not like you or what you're doing.
Sure, this is in protest of a law enforcement agency that has become a popular attack target by the Left. But it does open the doors to other people doing the same thing for other reasons. For example, I did work for a company writing a dating app for iOS and Android. What if one of the libraries I included was provided by a christian conservative who thinks our app abets premarital sex? I used to work for NASA; what if one of the libraries I used was provided by a Flat Earther? I'm now doing work for a company that helps large companies relocate employees--what if one of the libraries I used was provided by a radical environmentalist who believed moving employees half ways across the world was environmentally destructive?
I think acts like this serve to hold companies hostage for policies the developers of third party libraries may oppose--and that may strongly argue for reducing reliance on those third party libraries wherever possible.
wildly-shaking fist (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, he certainly showed them as his wildly-shaking fist flailed about.
I wonder if he will return the tainted money he received while working at Chef while they were under contract with ICE all along?
Re: wildly-shaking fist (Score:2)
Re: wildly-shaking fist (Score:2)
Good (Score:2)
Let all open source developers know, everybody can use your software, including your enemies, including businesses which will get code for free instead of paying someone.
If you choose to be nice in a cruel world, don't cry just because the world doesn't become nice all of the sudden.
Re: Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Or add a clause to your Free Software license limiting it to human persons only. Corporations, government agencies, and other fictional legal "persons" will need to pay for a proprietary license - which your are free not to grant.
Re: Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Good (Score:3)
Yup, the Law is corrupt.
But I'm under no obligation to give away my Free Software to legal fictions. And I'm still gonna unreservedly call it big-F Free Software.
Re: (Score:2)
Which essentially means nobody will use it. If it's simple, either someone will re-engineer it and release it as open source, unencumbered, or will do so commercially and make a lot of money.
Re: Good (Score:3)
Yup, the license I want doesn't give jack shit to non-human "persons". License your software the way that suits you. I'll license mine the way that suits me. But please don't lecture me about respecting the "freedom" of legal fictions.
Re: (Score:2)
If you choose to be nice in a cruel world, don't cry just because the world doesn't become nice all of the sudden.
I've heard that one before:
“And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, a girl sitting on her own in a small café in Rickmansworth suddenly realized what it was that had been going wrong all this time, and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything.” -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
one idea: (Score:3)
Re: one idea: (Score:2)
Or Chef maybe, since their software uses it?
I don't care, as a salty sysadmin, CPAN has always been a four letter word. You package that external junk with your app or write around it. I don't do "get it from the Internet" in production, and I'll be damned if I start now.
You are completely backassward (Score:2)
Re: You are completely backassward (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Which people do. And even in the precis of the article indicates that due diligence was done.
What if he had said this instead? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: What if he had said this instead? (Score:2)
Don't stop with the small stuff (Score:5, Insightful)
Better come up with a geofenced license; China is keeping millions [dw.com] in internment camps.
How stupid can you get? (Score:2)
I'd like to know why ICE is unpopular with lefties (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, I know why, but I'll lay this out anyway. ....Will be their plaintive cry. If you don't like what ICE is doing, then try to change the law. If the law can't be changed because not enough people agree with you and never will, then you need to accept that as your responsibility in a civil society.
ICE is a law enforcement agency that enforces the duly enacted laws of the United States of America. We elect people to the House and Senate to create, amend, or cancel laws according to the national interest.
Standing law in the United States is that we allow X number of immigrants who fit Y standards and may enter in Z fashion.
The ICE heaters want the rule of law to be replaced by their own fleeting emotion and response to party propaganda. They're literally trying to implement mob rule. They don't respect or love our country. They don't understand, let alone value, civil society, nor the rule of law. They imagine they can take apart our society, traditions and laws because they have feelings, emotions, and they're offended.
They know not the consequences should they succeed in instituting mob rule... but they will suffer them.
"But we meant well!!"
Child concentration camps? Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
As noted earlier, every country in the world enforces its borders. If you had ever travelled outside of the US, you would know that ICE policies are harsher under the Trump administration, but far from the worst. Please note the following:
1. Prior to 2017, asylum applicants were given a Notice to Appear (which they jokingly referred to as "Notice to Disappear") and were rarely seen again. It pains me to be seen to defend him, but Trump is trying to enforce the laws passed by Congress.
2. Congress can and should change the laws, There is much that the two parties agree on. Why don't they change the law? Could it be that they prefer to have this as a talking point and don't really care about immigrants?
3. No one is imprisoned in concentration camps. They are free to return to Central America. More than 90% of Central American asylum claims are found to be groundless, so what keeps them in the ICE facilities? Huh?
Re: (Score:2)
The eugenics movement actually started here in the United States and not in Germany, one of our Southern states had a policy of sterilizing inmates in asylums in the state.
Many of our mega wealthy made large donations to the Nazi's, Henry Ford paid to have their uniforms designe
Re: Long time Gestapo collaborator... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Germany learned their lesson.
Yes, they moved from military conquest to financial. They're still hell-bent on taking over Europe, and they've mostly accomplished it today.
Re: (Score:2)
> You know whar they did to Nazi collaborators in my country, after the war?
They hung them from the church towers!
Without trial. This does not make things better in the long run, it helps encourage the next generation to commit abuse. It's part of why the Nuremberg Trials were so important, justice had to be seen and had to work with laws to be justice, not just a lynch mob. Accusing and abusing people without any trial but only condemned the court of public opinion for action that was not only legal but
Re: (Score:2)
Germany is already setting up for its own repeat. Criminalization of Nazi speech has only driven it underground there, where they can be in denial about it, and do nothing about it. My name is Fester, it means "to rot".
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Whether it be ideological flavors of the month, faulty DMCAs or other rouge incidents
I know, I know, I'm careless with my makeup sometimes. What's that got to do with anything?
Re: Empty gesture (Score:2)