Canada Arrests Top Huawei Executive For Allegedly Violating Iran Sanctions (theglobeandmail.com) 163
Canada has arrested Huawei's chief financial officer on suspicion of violating U.S. trade sanctions against Iran. "Wanzhou Meng, who is also the deputy chair of Huawei's board and the daughter of company founder Ren Zhengfei, was arrested in Vancouver at the request of U.S. authorities," reports The Globe and Mail. From the report: "Wanzhou Meng was arrested in Vancouver on December 1. She is sought for extradition by the United States, and a bail hearing has been set for Friday," Justice department spokesperson Ian McLeod said in a statement to The Globe and Mail. "As there is a publication ban in effect, we cannot provide any further detail at this time. The ban was sought by Ms. Meng.
A Canadian source with knowledge of the arrest said U.S. law enforcement authorities are alleging that Ms. Meng tried to evade the U.S. trade embargo against Iran but provided no further details. Since at least 2016, U.S. authorities have been reviewing Huawei's alleged shipping of U.S.-origin products to Iran and other countries in violation of U.S. export and sanctions laws.
A Canadian source with knowledge of the arrest said U.S. law enforcement authorities are alleging that Ms. Meng tried to evade the U.S. trade embargo against Iran but provided no further details. Since at least 2016, U.S. authorities have been reviewing Huawei's alleged shipping of U.S.-origin products to Iran and other countries in violation of U.S. export and sanctions laws.
The Republican illiteracy is strong with this one (Score:1)
The accused is being extradited to the USA, seniore Einstein-san. The accusations are against a company which has 'some' assets in the US also. You can continue to read next time, assuming you learn to read at all in the interim. Begin.
Re: Alright! RICO that shit, take their assets! (Score:1)
Since I learned of the Chinese habit of holding US citizens in debtors prison for debts owed by their employers I don't care. China has misbehaved one time too many.
Hostage for negotiation (Score:3, Interesting)
Holding as a hostage for negotiation. I thought only terrorists think of this trick and a not a country that say "In God We Trust"?
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The US is a great country, with a diversity to envy and genuine potential to keep leading democracy, if they get ahold of its reins like they do every other decade. But one canot forget that both US, Russia and China, the 3 world potencies, have all taken ahold of land, or even entire countries as hostage for negotiations. It is, after all, the country that seeks to arrest its own whistleblowers. Leadership has been a real problem in the world lately, but America does get the prize of being the most flamboy
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> She got more votes than Trump, because the president of American is NOT elected democratically, where is the "democracy" in that?
Because there is a system, that was set up, which means the election isn't a direct link to majority vote count, and all of the candidates knew this beforehand.
When you lose chess do you pretend you were playing a different game?
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"When you lose chess do you pretend you were playing a different game?"
When parties lose elections yes, they do pretend they were playing a different game. This is why Democrats cry that Trump is a threat to Democracy and also claim that this is why the "Electoral College" should be abolished. Changing that requires a Constitutional Amendment.
Trump is not a threat to our Democracy... we need to have one for him to threaten to begin with.
Re:Hostage for negotiation (Score:4, Insightful)
A bit of trivia... did you know that there is no constitutional requirement for states to let citizens even vote for president of USA?
However the states decided to allow it through their own laws, which is why each state has slightly different rules about how the electors are "encouraged/required" to vote.
You should look up the term "faithless elector". You might be shocked https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
This is one of the reasons I consider anyone that calls America a Democracy to be more than just an ignorant idiot. They are either a moron or intentionally proffering a straight up lie for idiots to gobble up like mad.
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America was never a Democracy. It was always a Federated Republic. That's both its strength and point of failure in responding to existential changes to the world in which it exists, since it was founded to be like this.
Not sure what profit there is in pretending otherwise, besides keeping the rubes in Q-anon cult robes of course.
Another bit of trivia...
had anyone as pompously fraudulent as Trump come anywhere near the Founding Fathers, he inevitably would have been dueled (or not) and shot to death with
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Actually, the constitution's 14th amendment says: "When the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,
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Actually, the constitution's 14th amendment says: "When the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress ....
I think you missed a word. Note that it says "the right to vote ... for the choice of electors", not the right to vote for the President or Vice President.
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Sounds like, on practical terms, the people do indeed elect the president via a democratic republic. Calling it a democracy may be technically incorrect (and of course, everyone agree that's totally the best type of correct), but it aint so far off the mark that most would consider it wrong.
Depends. Even totalitarian dictatorships can have voting. What's the definition of a "representative democracy"? Does it mean the people elect representatives, or does it mean the politicians actually represent the people? If it's the latter, the US doesn't seem to be a representative democracy, as discussed in this 2014 paper [princeton.edu] by Martin Gilens (Princeton University) and Benjamin I. Page (Northwestern University).
Summary: "... economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substan
Every country for itself (Score:2, Interesting)
Why am I not surprised to see such wild goose threads as this? Rather sad not to see any funny comments, but no mention of Nissan or stock prices and only trivial mentions of Iran.
Starting with the Iran aspect since it did get touched: Violation of sanctions is a matter of opinion, where the rest of the world is on the other side from TrumpLand. Not sure what pressure they managed to find to persuade Canada to make the arrest, but it's not a wise move. The stock market is going to be badly spooked no matter
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Well, in this case it is not funny because expect counter arrests in 3.. 2.. 1.. . You know it will be coming, the government of China can be somewhat thin skinned at times and this arrest will come with penalties, it is inevitable, at a guess quite a few arrests for all sorts of reasons.
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If the President DOES sign a bill into law or it gets a Super Majority it can STILL be challenged in court where a Judge(s) can strike the law down on constitutional grounds... where is the "democracy" in that? In a democracy the only power a court needs is interpreting the law enough to find people innocence or guilty... definitely not in finding if the law itself is legitimate or not... that is the job of the "democracy" not the courts!
You were on a roll till you got to there. This is still perfectly in line with Democracy of any form given that the courts need to strike something down on "constitutional grounds", a constitution that was written and is maintained and updated in a democratic way.
definitely not in finding if the law itself is legitimate or not...
That is false by definition. The only way a law is illegitimate is if it is incompatible with the law. It's a correction mechanism to ensure that laws are maintained properly in a democractic system. If you want to throw this out then you can throw
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The US is a democracy, but that doesn't mean it is ruled by the mob. The founders were very clear and intelligent in how they set it up and upsets have happened for both parties.
In the US, voter communities elect a president, so in theory the majority vote amongst communities and the needs of the community is what is being reflected in the vote. That is called representative democracy although that's been screwed with by some states like CA and NY getting much more representatives per community than eg Idah
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That you don't like the system (neither do I) doesn't mean it isn't a democratic system: people vote and who they vote are to lead in the role the voters gave them.
The quirk you are so upset about is there for good reasons.
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"US, Russia and China, the 3 world potencies"
Russia does not belong on this list. The state of California has a higher GDP then Russia. To be a real world power requires both military and economic dominance. Compared to the US Russia is basically a third world country with a nuclear arsenal. And their nuclear arsenal can never be used due to MAD. Russia's conventional forces are a mere shadow of what they had been during the cold war.
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Because then we can convince US taxpayers to keep paying nearly a trillion dollars a year for "defense". Obviously.
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.both US, Russia and China, the 3 world potencies,....
The term 'both' implies only 2 subjects: once you mention those, having more makes it a howler
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yeah I should have probably used "all", "all of" or some other expression. I likely was going to mention 2 but ended up adding a third country, but even if not, to a non-native english speaker like me, the train of thought is lost even when reviewing my own text.
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Rio Tinto (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, this is the Wikipedia entry [wikipedia.org] for the Rio Tinto prosecution.
Several mining companies reported [news.com.au] that their computer systems were compromised around that time.
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They can't send anybody to gitmo if they enter the US first, and Canada isn't going to extradite somebody "to the US" and then send them somewhere else. The whole legal argument for the Court not shutting down gitmo is that it is rented from Cuba, so it isn't our laws. That argument doesn't work once a detainee is physically present in the US.
If they wanted her in gitmo, the plane would need to have landed somewhere without too many treaties, or in a war zone. Or she would have needed to disappear from the
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Are you guys seriously arguing that the Trump administration is not corrupt enough, but you masters of choice are? You seriously want leaders that are adept at being corrupt?
I need a drink.
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Wow. I had to look it up, but you are talking about the arrest of Stern Hu, who was born and raised in China, then got an Australian citizenship in his 30's, and he lived in China and was arrested in China for violating Chinese law. And he admitted to bribery.
The Chinese did not kidnap a foreign national who was making an airplane connection in some random place. They arrested someone living in China for violating Chinese law. Well, they arrested four actually, the fact that one of those four at the Chinese
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AFAIK their claim was that they were controlling mineral prices using a cartel.
Isn't there such a thing as a "corporate veil?" (Score:2)
Has the U.S. government conclusively pierced [wikipedia.org] this veil?
Re:Isn't there such a thing as a "corporate veil?" (Score:5, Informative)
That isn't what that means. That veil protects the investors, not the employees.
The reality is that many legal protections are afforded to the corporation by the presumption that it wants to do the right thing; it isn't a person, it isn't self-aware, so it can't desire to break the law.
So a law that bans a broad action, but where the individual steps are all otherwise-legal, then the crime falls on the corporation, and the individuals are all protected. And the corporation just gets a fine, because it didn't have intent, the sum of the (legal) individual actions simply added up to a crime.
But when the individual actions were themselves illegal, then it is entirely the fault of the employee; the corporation can't intentionally want you to do something wrong, it is just a piece of paper. If you were ordered to commit a crime, that was your boss committing a crime, and you were the accomplice. So the corporation is protected. Still financially responsible, though.
Here, the individual action violates sanctions, so that is an individual crime by the employee. And the resulting trade that the company was intentionally doing also is criminal. So a situation like this, you have a whole bunch of individual employees who committed crimes, but the corporation was aware of the trade and the people who should have stopped it didn't, so those acts land on both the individuals, and the company.
I am not a lawyer. If you don't want to violate sanctions against Iran, don't trade with Iran.
Re:Isn't there such a thing as a "corporate veil?" (Score:4, Interesting)
The problem is that these sanctions are illegal (as in unilateral and not UN sanctioned) so for Huawei to actually follow the sanctions would be illegal and Huawei execs could be arrested for doing so. They cant win.
US law has no validity outside of US. I dont know how Canada is going to extradite when no crime has been committed on US soil or Candian soil. This is just a kidnapping.
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But how can they take the right to arrest someone for that? It is completely outside their jurisdiction.
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When will Americans realize the rest of the world doesn't give a fuck about what they want?
Probably when the rest of the world stops coming to us with their begger cups extended? America pays more to defend countries of the EU than the countries of the EU. America pays most of the bills for the UN, and most of the "peace keeping" forces of the UN turn out to be Americans.
If you want to be so damn independent, please, be quick about and fuck off.
And a merry Christmas to you and yours.
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Most UN troops are not American as American troops refuse to be bound by the Geneva conventions and the ICJ.
NATO would need zero funding if the US had not turned Eastern Europe and Western Europe into enemies during the Cold War. Russia is Europe's neighbor and natural ally. its the US which is an interloper.
If USA wants to play at War it better pay for it.
The rest of the world subsidizes the US by using the USD as the international trade instrument hence allowing the US Govt to run multi-trillion dollar de
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I've got a phone call for you. It's Finland. They'd like to talk.
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So? Mexico would like to Talk to the US about California and Texas. Don't be a hostage to history. Or do you really want to bring up Finland's collaboration with Hitler?
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It used to be that US just threatened you that you couldn't sell in the USA if you sold to these countries. Now that Huawei was banned from selling backbone telecoms equipment in the USA this is the kind of leverage they had to come up with...
I doubt the Chinese will react well to something like this.
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How much would you like it if the Chinese had you kidnapped someplace because you violated their laws even when you are not a Chinese citizen?
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US BAD (Score:5, Interesting)
No more sense than Westboro around here.
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Holding as a hostage for negotiation.
Hostage? This guy was arrested for violating the law. It doesn't matter if you are Chinese, American or Lizard Person because your dumb ass is going to get arrested.
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Actually it does.
How would you like to be arrested for breaking Lampukistan law even though you are not a Lampukian citizen and never been have to Lampukistan?
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If you do business within a country then you are subject to it's laws.
Re:Hostage for negotiation (Score:4, Interesting)
Sounds logical.... until you're thinking it through...
So.. let's say some European country has money laundering laws that require you to report your bank accounts or international money transfers to the local law enforcement authorities.
Coco Cola company does business with that country.
So every Coca Coly employee going on vavation to Euro Disney or Heidelberg should be arrested on spot because Cocoa Coly Company did not report the sale of Coke Mexico to the EU authorities?
Yes, if you are doing business in that country what you are doing in that country is subject to that countries laws.
Just because your company is doing buisness in Japan does NOT imply you have to drive on the left side of the road in the town Whatever, Indiana!
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So every Coca Coly employee going on vavation to Euro Disney or Heidelberg should be arrested on spot because Cocoa Coly Company did not report the sale of Coke Mexico to the EU authorities?
Nope, just the decision makers. The CEO is the obvious choice in this case.
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Chinese laws? Bwahahahahaha...yes, their legal system is a paradigm of virtue. Can I freshen up that drink a bit for you, Comrade?
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By now, that's probably not worth more than Google's "don't be evil"
Careful Ambiguity (Score:2)
I thought only terrorists think of this trick and a not a country that say "In God We Trust"?
That depends on which god they trust. Currently, they seem to be following one best summed up as "stupid-Loki".
Such a joke. (Score:2, Insightful)
* NAFTA has made Canada the USA's dog.
* Iran apparently goes from friend to foe to friend to foe, depending on the mood of the day of the USA, and if they bend over backwards to be the USA's proxy vassal against Russia yet again. Nobody seems to even care about the average people who actually have to live there.
* Trump is the first factor, that may be strong enough, to get the world to put an embargo on the USA. Let's be honest: It's only a question of time. (And if you scramble, to get rid of him, I must t
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Because of "Go 'Murica Rulez!!"?
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No, for the same reason that no one puts an embargo on China. Because the USA, the EU, and China are the three largest economies in the world and of these the USA is the largest. If you embargo the US, that means nothing produced in the world's largest economy will get to your citizens and that nothing produced by you will get to consumers in the world's largest economy. Both of those will hurt you a lot. If the EU and China jointly imposed an embargo on the USA, that would hurt the US more than it woul
Pull that sleeping tiger's tail (Score:1)
What could possibly go wrong?
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What could possibly go wrong?
You find out it's a dragon tail not a tiger tail?
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Yes, and then you find out that a dragon is just a smallish salamander with bright colors.
And easily eaten by an eagle.
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"Head" of INTERPOL as in figurehead, not head as in leader.
And not "missing" as in "missing persons report,"* but "missing" as in, "he's detained in a country that doesn't release public information about detainees."
* A missing persons report was initially filed in another country than his last known location, but it is now known that he is no longer under the personal jurisdiction of that country.
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And you can be the US state department would object.
Whoa whoa whoa (Score:1)
My understanding of the U.S. "sanctions" is basically the U.S. administration telling corporations "if you trade with them, we will not do any trading with you." In which they are technically within their rights.
Arresting those who do not abide by those non-UN approved sanctions? That takes it to another level.
Why the hell is Canada taking part in this? This is almost as legit as dissident arrest warrants that dictatorships routinely issue.
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Would you say the same about corruption? What about slavery? Criminal cartels?
Actually.... yes.
No matter which crimes you're talking about, extending a countries jurisdiction over the actual borders usually isn't a good idea. When X isn't a crime in country Y, country Z would only makes things worse by interfering directly. (Of course it's a completly different situation when Y and Z officials are cooperating or have any agreements on law enforcement)
U.S. gives up wealth an trade with Iran specifically to limit the human rights violations that this regime engages in bad faith. When a company develops a scheme to capture for themselves the profit that U.S. sacrifices, it is guilty of aiding human rights violations that the sanctions are limiting.
Well currently the US is in violaition of the contract they negotiated themselfes that was actually designed to end human right violati
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There is no 'extension of jurisdiction' involved. What are you talking about? Or are you trying to claim that the US does not have jurisdiction over what goods and under what conditions it exports things? Every country has such laws. This is not 'some Chinese company made something and sold it to Iran and we don't like that', it is 'some Chinese company exported stuff from the US and sold it to Iran, in direct violation of Federal law which prohibits exporting stuff FROM THE US to Iran'.
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I thought they would build their phones in china...
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I don't see anywhere where it says the problem is 'their phones'. However, even that is the problem, export laws (of all countries) include more than physical goods, they also include technology. So if they are exporting any US technology to make their phones (and they most certainly are), those phones are still under the terms of the export license, which state that it can't be transferred to Iran.
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Your understanding sucks. It is a violation of US law to export things from the US to be imported into certain countries (like Iran). You need a license to export from the US, and getting a license means you agree to the terms. She is accused of violating the export license. Why is Canada involved? Because they, like every other country not run by complete morons, have their own import/export laws, and expect international cooperation in enforcing them.
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US Law is only worth tissue paper outside the US. These sanctions are not good in international law as they are not UN sanctioned and in fact are contrary to the UN treaty with Iran
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US Law is only worth tissue paper outside the US.
The article is proof you are incorrect.
These sanctions are not good in international law as they are not UN sanctioned and in fact are contrary to the UN treaty with Iran
Sanctions need not be agreed upon by the UN to be legal. The UN does not negotiate treaties with sovereign nations.
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The JCPOA with Iran was a treaty between 7 countries and sanctioned by the UN Security Council. Even at that time Iran knew a Treaty with the US is not worth the paper it's printed on so insisted on UN certification of the treaty. Hence breaking that treaty and imposing sanctions on Iran is illegal. US companies will do it as they are under US jurisdiction but Chinese companies will not break an international treaty just to follow a domestic US law.
Export Compliance==WTO violation (Score:2)
WTO makes non tariff barriers illegal and open to challenge. Export control laws are non tariff barriers to trade. China would be within its rights to retaliate through tariffs or non tariff barriers of its own. Or it can just ignore the export control laws because it knows if US tries to enforce them they will be proven to be illegal at the WTO.
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The Lacey Act says no such thing, and you would have to be really thick to think that it does. The Lacey Act says that it is illegal to IMPORT INTO THE US any animals or plants that have been illegally taken according to the laws of the place they were taken from. You would not be prosecuted for taking the animal (that is the other country's problem), you would be prosecuted for bringing it into the US. Big difference.
US sets Trade rules on US originating technologies (Score:5, Informative)
Julian Ku, a professor at Hofstra University Law School, wrote on Twitter that the move was justifiable. “US law prohibits exports of certain US-origin technologies to certain countries,” he said. “When Huawei pays to license certain US tech, it promises not to export to certain countries like Iran. So it is not unreasonable for the US to punish Huawei for flouting this US law.”
Re:US sets Trade rules on US originating technolog (Score:4, Informative)
The only (legal) way to get the product out of the country is via an export license. The terms of that license say under what conditions said product can be removed from the country. Those terms include not selling the product to Iran. If you violate those terms you break the law, regardless of whether you own the thing you are selling.
NSA crying uncle. (Score:2)
Huawei is not accused of export license violations. It is selling its own tech to Iran. The problem US has that if Iran is getting tech from non US sources there are no NSA backdoors which can be used to introduce viruses into Iranian system.
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From the summary: Since at least 2016, U.S. authorities have been reviewing Huawei's alleged shipping of U.S.-origin products to Iran and other countries in violation of U.S. export and sanctions laws.
Everything in your post is incorrect.
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US Origin as in using US chips but the routers and software are made in China. Which means unlike CISCO and Juniper there are no NSA backdoors in them.
Incidentally there has been a lot of fear mongering about China having a law which can compel Private companies to hand over data to the govt. In the US thats called a subpoena and Facebook, Google, Microsoft and Apple handover data to the FBI all the time.
Companies around the world are getting worried about the control the US govt has on their tech architect
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Break the law or violate a contract where you agreed not to export to Iran? The latter is not a crime, it's a civil matter.
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There is no 'contract' involved. In order to export from the US, you need an export license issued by the government. Getting the license includes agreeing that the exported goods will not be transferred (to your knowledge) to Iran (or other embargoed places). So, you can call it either 'exporting without a valid license' or 'fraudulently obtaining an export license', but either way it is a serious criminal matter.
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Who gets the licence, the exporter or the receiver? And which was Huwawei?
Even VIP from US "allies" countries are not safe (Score:1)
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We can't let her go. Our extradition laws are terrible. On of our citizens was sent to France on bad evidence to sit in a prison cell for three yeas in relation to a bombing [bbc.com].
The headline is misleading because we only made the arrest due to our extradition treaty with the US. Not because we think she did anything wrong. The only reasons we wouldn't send her to the US is if we think she'd face the death penalty or torture. We don't judge on whether or not the case is stupid. China won't be made at us for hon