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Government United States Technology

Congress Questioned Big Tech CEOs For 5 Hours Without Getting Any Good Answers (engadget.com) 160

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Engadget: More than five hours of questioning later, we have learned very little about the state of disinformation from today's marathon hearing with Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey and Sundar Pichai. Democrats pushed the CEOs to answer for their platforms' failing on vaccine misinformation and extremism. Republicans wanted to talk about child safety. Everyone wanted simple "yes" or "no" answers, though few were given. What is clear is that both sides are more than ready to impose new rules on Facebook, Twitter and Google.

The hearing was supposed to be about the platforms' handling of misinformation and extremism. The issue has taken on a new significance during the coronavirus pandemic and in the wake of the Jan. 6 riot at the US Capitol. [...] As with other recent hearings, the format made it nearly impossible to extract meaningful answers. Many lawmakers used their allotted five minutes to demand "yes or no" answers, which the executives were reluctant to give. In one particularly memorable exchange, Rep. Anna Eshoo of California was questioning Zuckerberg over Facebook's algorithms when she interrupted him to point out that "we don't do filibuster in the House." "I think it's irritating all of us and that is, no one seems to know the word yes or the word no, which one is it," she said. "Congresswoman, these are nuanced issues, " Zuckerberg said before he was cut off. "Okay, that's a no," she said.

As the hearing dragged on, lawmakers began to repeat themselves. Inevitably, when a new issue or angle was raised -- like when Rep. David McKinley showed Zuckerberg copies of Instagram posts selling prescription pills -- the executives had little time to respond in a meaningful way. The result is that the CEOs' opening statements provided more detail on the issues at hand than anything they were able to say in the five hours that came after them. This, of course, is nothing new. Over the last couple of years, Congress has convened a number of hearings featuring Big Tech executives, and most of them have played out in a similar fashion. But what's increasingly clear is that the both sides of the aisle are eager to impose new regulations on tech platforms.

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Congress Questioned Big Tech CEOs For 5 Hours Without Getting Any Good Answers

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  • by WoodstockJeff ( 568111 ) on Friday March 26, 2021 @10:35PM (#61203968) Homepage

    The people who say they advocate Network Neutrality seem to also be the ones asking why internet isn't censored the way they want.

    • I see a lot of folks raising concerns about misinformation, especially vaccine misinformation [mashable.com] which is likely being done for profit (e.g. to sell new age crap), and it's true there's a bunch of senators getting marching orders from billionaire donors who are trying to take over the Internet by repealing Section 230 so they can use lawsuits to shut down free speech (ala the DMCA), but I don't know anyone who supports NN and it's brother in arms S230 in a genuine fashion *and* supports censorship.

      So, um,
      • by saloomy ( 2817221 ) on Saturday March 27, 2021 @12:01AM (#61204154)
        The questions the senators were asking were typical of political class propaganda. They were questions not designed to improve a users experience or combat the actual issues at hand, but were designed to deliver responses politically expedient for the interrogator, on both sides this went on.

        Meanwhile, the CEOs actually (esp. Jack) delivered the quotable lines of the day:

        "I don't think we should be the arbiters of truth and I don't think the government should be either" - Jack Dorsey

        Imagine having to actually deliver that line in America, land of the free? We are certainly in the twilight zone. I mean seriously? This is what the leviathan is up to?

        • what I'm looking for are specific examples of politicians who are a) in favor of Net Neutrality and b) in favor of censorship. In particular what are they looking to censor? What speech? Generally people who want to censor have something in mind (usually porn, movies, video games and music).
    • by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:08PM (#61204042)

      Network neutrality is about providing equal quality service regardless of where it connects. If you don't like how a site moderates content then you can always go to a new site. However, without network neutrality, your ISP can decide which sites you are allowed to visit.

      Do not muddy the water because these are NOT the same issue.

    • Argh! I can't believe I misread your post. Commenting to reverse moderation.

      I thought you said the people AGAINST Net Neutrality are now in favor of forcing some sort of fairness doctrine on any tech company that isn't an ISP.

      Because we wouldn't want to stifle innovation making sure your ISP will allow you to use whatever site on the internet you might want to.

      I have 2 choices for broadband ISPs - The DSL company or the cable company! Someone already stifled competition.

    • I want my ISP to be a neutral arbiter of all legal content. I want something better than Twitter and Facebook for average people to connect to. I don't know how to achieve the second.

    • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday March 27, 2021 @01:47AM (#61204304)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • by ytene ( 4376651 )
        Hypothetical and extreme answer for you.

        Suppose I run your ISP and I notice from traffic analysis that you like to access slashdot on a regular basis. I have my own alternative to slashdot, which is hosted and maintained on my servers and which therefore runs contents and commercials that make me money. I want you to frequent my site, crashbot, and not this weird slashdot site.

        So what I do is using IPv6 QoS capabilities on my backbone network to reduce your throughput to slashdot to 1 data packet per
        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • by ytene ( 4376651 )
            So my point was that if I am your ISP, I can slow down the traffic that you get from any remote source to a bit-rate so low that your devices believe the remote devices is unavailable. So I can prevent you from accessing anything I want. Which is censorship.
            • Comment removed based on user account deletion
              • by ytene ( 4376651 )
                That’s entirely fair. But, then again, I did preface my earlier post with “Hypothetical and extreme example”.

                But let’s see if we can find some common ground, because I think the question you’ve asked is really important. Let’s see if that common ground can be reached if we can find a definition that combines something an ISP could do with censorship, OK?

                Would you be willing to agree with me that if I can prevent you from reading/viewing or listening to something, th
    • Stupid theatrics not an intelligent review. Questions should be posed in writing and answers in writing. Yes or No for oversimplification is ridiculous. Position papers would offer more perspective but does not fit the gerbil attention spans.
  • Yes or no. Answer! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by msauve ( 701917 ) on Friday March 26, 2021 @10:40PM (#61203992)
    Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes or no!
    • Yes or no!

      I continue to beat my wife the same number of times I always have.

      WARNING: self-contradicting answers may cause SJW outrage and narcissistic moralizing.

    • I apparently live in Soviet Russia because my wife beats me. (ask about that Tantus latex tawse that is one of her favorites)

      Hey, it's not t.m.i. if you were the one who brought it up.

    • Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes or no!

      The correct answer is "no". I have not stopped beating my wife.

      The next step is for the prosecution to demonstrate (or even ask) if I ever beat her in the first place.

      I totally get that some/many questions are complicated. If folks were playing fairly, "no but..." would be a reasonable format. Answer the damned question, then expand on the conditions that apply to your answer. Unfortunately, we live in a world of soundbites where the media will air the answer without the explanation, and we live in

  • by Frobnicator ( 565869 ) on Friday March 26, 2021 @10:54PM (#61204012) Journal

    From the questions, the problem seems to be that nobody can clearly define what they want.

    In many ways they want the largest social media platforms to be something they are not. They want the platform to be liable for the content of users, in a way similar to how a news station is liable for the news clips they air. Yet on the flip side, they cannot curtail the speech of individual users. They want advertisements to be general purpose and widely acceptable like television and newspaper ads, yet their business interests / donors want the focused ads which means they include the possibility of illegal discrimination.

    They also have to define it in a way to apply to the Google, Facebook, and other largest corporations, to sites like Slashdot, to 4Chan, to news site's comment sections, and also to every tiny website and WordPress site that has a "comment" button.

    • ... they cannot curtail the speech of individual users.

      Why not? No-one owes morons a megaphone. We've seen the consequences, Facebook employs (rewards) only morons. If not censorship, rewarding the worst of humanity needs to stop. We should, at least, censor those who follow the worst people.

      • But now you are being Emmanuel Goldstein. Should we revile these 'worst people'? Perhaps post their bitmaps on the screen for periodic short ceremonies of hate?

      • The old quote is: I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. The modern view seems to be: If I disagree with what you say I will form mobs to utterly destroy you.
      • No-one owes morons a megaphone.

        I think that's a great point to be made by those who have megaphones. I think it's a bad point to make by government, in a country where the Constitution insists that the government may not boss around megaphone owners.

        You don't want morons to use your megaphone. I completely understand and agree that use of your megaphone should be exclusively your decision.

        But what if I want morons (or some morons) to sometimes be able to use my megaphone? That's especially attractive if

    • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Saturday March 27, 2021 @07:13AM (#61204674)

      From the questions, the problem seems to be that nobody can clearly define what they want.

      In terms of restriction of speech I can define what I want: Make social media 100% liable for any content they directly promote for cash.
      - If your mom posts an antivaxx story, not ideal, but tough that is free speech.
      - If your news feed sees a "popular right now" promoted post telling you the COVID vaccine doesn't work, fine the fuckers.
      - If your politician places an advert saying that the election was stolen, fine the fuckers.

      Social network is a bubble usually of people you want to associate with. When a company attempts to play with that bubble, *THEN* they should take on all liability. If Facebook's algorithm promotes content they should be made liable. If money changes hands to promote content they should be liable.

    • by hey! ( 33014 )

      Social media platforms are more than just passive conduits of information. They aren't designed to serve users' habits, they are designed to shape them in a way that can be monetized.

      This means maximizing engagement, and if you *only* pursue that goal you cater to confirmation bias, and you end up steering people down rabbit holes like QAnon.

      I have no trouble telling you *exactly* what I want out of social media. I want social media to serve its *users*, for them to be the customers not the product. But

  • by istartedi ( 132515 ) on Friday March 26, 2021 @10:57PM (#61204018) Journal

    Wait, so politicians wanted a yes or no answer and didn't get it? LOL, now you know how we feel about you, guys. Suck it up.

    • by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:44PM (#61204132) Homepage Journal

      Wait, so politicians wanted a yes or no answer and didn't get it? LOL, now you know how we feel about you, guys. Suck it up.

      Funny, yes, but in practice, I think it's quite the opposite. Politicians live or die on giving answers that distill something complicated down to some mindless catch phrase that they can put on a bumper sticker. What we're seeing is them trying to apply that same level of borderline illiteracy to complex technical and/or philosophical questions and wondering why the CEOs are looking at them like they're idiots.

      What's really needed is for more people to look at them like they're idiots. Any questions in a hearing on censorship, disinformation, etc. are unlikely to be able to be answered with a yes or no response unless the questions are things like, "You've been talking for a long time. Would you like to take a break and get a drink of water?" These are not simple issues, and trying to dumb them down to the point that anybody can understand the answers can only result in answers of such low value that they probably aren't worth asking. And anybody who says otherwise almost certainly doesn't understand the issues well enough to ask questions that have any value in the first place.

      The bigger concern is that those same people who don't understand enough to ask good questions and get mad because they don't understand the answers when they get them are the same people who are going to be writing the regulations, and no doubt badly screwing them up as usual.

      • The main issue is that each politician gets five minutes to ask their questions and get answers to them. So they don't want witnesses to stall. It's a stupid way to use time and makes hearings about soundbites not discovery.

      • The bigger concern is that those same people who don't understand enough to ask good questions and get mad because they don't understand the answers when they get them are the same people who are going to be writing the regulations, and no doubt badly screwing them up as usual.

        The lobbyist who is the politicians handler will write that law, favoring their own interests.

        • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          Pretty much. So the right question to ask is which lobbyists are trying to rein in tech companies. It clearly isn't privacy lobbyists, because those don't exist. My guess would be media company lobbyists, but it could also be lobbyists from foreign companies trying to reduce U.S. dominance on the Internet. Hard to say.

  • by alanshot ( 541117 ) <<moc.iru9dk> <ta> <yor>> on Friday March 26, 2021 @10:57PM (#61204022)

    Only a N00B would think that hours and hours of congressional testimony with no real substance is unusual. How adorable.

    Congressional hearings are the penultimate "Dog and Pony Show". Lots of bluster and posturing, with no real outcomes. I have followed politics closely for over 20 years and I literally cannot name you one single congressional investigation outside of the Lewinsky incident that actually involved anyone being punished as you might expect from a civil/criminal trial where somebody gets fined or goes to jail. Its all show. Bread and circuses to make the masses feel good that something is being done. But its just posturing from both sides. Nothing more.

    People get up there and testify, and are made uncomfortable. And that is the extent of the punishment, regardless of what they really deserve. Its a farce. Nobody gets an actual punishment like a fine or jail.

    And remember, Clinton wasnt impeached for what he did in the Oval Office, no matter how egregious or disrespectful you might think the act was. He was impeached for daring to lie to Congress about what he did. He could do nasty things unbecoming of the office, and thats ok to some. But Lie to congress?!?!?! *clutches pearls* HOW DARE YOU!!!! (/sarcasm)

  • by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:00PM (#61204028) Journal

    ...in anything?

    Remember how just fairly recently, we used to mock these guys ceaselessly "it's a network of tubes"?

    I genuinely would like to understand how suddenly we're placing all our faith that they're going to get THIS right?

    • To be fair, it's not as if the CEOs are experts either. If they truly wanted answers they'd be talking with the tech leads at each respective company.

      Of course they won't do that, because this was nothing more than a dog and pony show and that's all it intended to be.

    • Remember how just fairly recently, we used to mock these guys ceaselessly "it's a network of tubes"?

      No I don't. And if you do you're not remembering it either. Congress never said the internet is a "network of tubes", one specific person said that and we rightfully mocked him for it.

      I genuinely would like to understand how suddenly we're placing all our faith that they're going to get THIS right?

      I am genuinely curious as to why you think your post is relevant? I mean here we have people asking questions. That doesn't make them experts in anything. That's the whole reason they are asking questions in the first place. You are literally criticising the most correct thing to do.

      I for one support people asking questions be

      • by HiThere ( 15173 )

        Actually, I think the better description would be "ignorantly mocked him for it". Look up Bellamy Tube. (Sorry, apparently there's now too much noise around that name, so look up "pneumatic tube system" but you lose the historical perspective.) Various places in the 1920's and 30's had pneumatic tube systems for sending messages around and between downtown businesses. And the switching was a nightmare, but it was done.

  • That should be clear as day to anyone! If they gave real answers, they'd have to reveal what evil motherfuckers they really are, how much they're violating everyones' privacy, breaking rules and laws, and so on! No way in hell they want to tell congress anything!
  • by sloth jr ( 88200 ) on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:23PM (#61204082)
    ... the purpose was political posturing. This was a pure play to the congressfolks' bases, nothing else.
    • by Jack9 ( 11421 )

      Every public Congressional hearing is political posturing ONLY. It's been that way for decades.

  • Someone who knows (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Friday March 26, 2021 @11:24PM (#61204084) Journal

    If congress really wanted some answers, they'd stop having the CEOs of these tech corps testify at the hearings and call on some of the actual workers in those corporations. For example, instead of hearing streams of disconnected bullshit from Jack Dorsey or Mark Zuckerberg, they should get some of the people at those corporations who are actually tasked with moderation.

    Then, we might find out what's really going on behind the curtain. As they stand now, these hearings are nothing more than raw footage for corporate board room sizzle reels. If you want to see Jack and Zuck sweat, talk to the people who work for them, even five layers below them.

    • Or even some of the people who *used* to work for them.
      • If I ask your ex girlfriend what kind of a guy you are, are you sure I will end up with a truthful answer?

    • they should get some of the people at those corporations who are actually tasked with moderation. Then, we might find out what's really going on behind the curtain.

      The problem with that is you end up asking a very narrow view point questions on corporate policy which doesn't achieve anything either. Lackies may not know, or may not follow the policy properly. Worse still they may do something and answer differently fearing retribution. We see this all the time when doing incident investigation. The more serious the incident the more generic or even silent the people around it stay. The worst example of this was when we questioned a man who managed to drill a hole in a

  • Regulation hurts profitability and profits, therefore less is more. These CEO were trained not to open their mouths, recite PR approved responses, and jam in soundbites whenever possible. Furthermore ANY attempt to moderate content, will be amplified when 200 or so other countries impose their own unique restrictions along the lines 'Dont make us look bad, don't embarrass us, don't draw attention to human rights abuses, and stay quiet over secret detentions or torture/kidnapping. So doing the right thing
  • Congress Questioned Big Tech CEOs For 5 Hours Without Getting Any Good Answers

    So the CEOs acted like most Congressional representatives -- they talk a lot, using vague language, with no good answers.

    Everyone wanted simple "yes" or "no" answers, though few were given.

    Try getting one of those from a member of Congress...

  • On one side: people who don't know enough to know what to ask
    On the other: people who want to avoid answering

  • by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Saturday March 27, 2021 @04:57AM (#61204520)

    Lawmakers were NOT there grilling tech CEOs with their purposeful "Yes or No" bullshit questions, in order to elicit any kind of meaningful or even actionable response.

    No.

    Lawmakers are grilling tech CEOs with their purposeful "Yes or No" bullshit questions, in order to rack up political "Gotcha!" team points so they could jump up and down like rabid monkeys (ironically on the very social media platforms they complain about), in order to make themselves look like they're "taking action", all while not actually doing a damn thing. They're gonna collect their "I'll take that as a No" forced responses and go back and spend the rest of the week packing Twitter shit balls to throw at each other.

    Enough of Drain the Swamp. It's time to Flush the Toilet. If none of them can actually get anything done of consequence, then perhaps none of them is how many The People need going forward.

    And we all know damn well lawmakers aren't actually going to punish members of their beloved Donor Class.

  • News bites (Score:5, Interesting)

    by idji ( 984038 ) on Saturday March 27, 2021 @05:45AM (#61204568)
    Aren't these congress critters just fishing for 5 second news bites to play to their constituents?
  • ...both sides of the aisle are eager to impose new regulations on tech platforms.

    Fuck that! Grow a pair, then forcibly break up one of those 'tech giants' and sell it off for spare parts. Then watch the other two fall into line. No? Oh yeah, that's right, I momentarily forgot - this is all just posturing and bullshit. Tech, Industry and Wall Street actually run the country, and elected 'leaders' are their beards and their puppets.

    Either do something meaningful, or fuck off with pretending that there's anything of substance going on here. Your lies are starting to wear thin and sound ho

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      forcibly break up one of those 'tech giants' and sell it off for spare parts

      Guess where all the teachers' and firefighters' pension funds are invested.

  • ... with Alan Greenspan blowing smoke up their butts for years. What's the problem now?

  • If they wanted answers in a timely manor, they could have let those testifying know what the questions were going to be in advance.

    They didn't do that, because they aren't actually interested in getting answers.

  • If people like Mr. Zuckerberg can't stop the illicit sale of opioids on their platform then maybe Congress needs to step in and tell them how to run their business.

    I realize there are a few businesses where no two people ever have the opportunity to communicate, but I think the argument is being made for Congress to run at least 95% of the economy, and I think my estimate is on the low side.

  • The goal is not to get good answers. The goal is for the questioners to showboat themselves.

The truth of a proposition has nothing to do with its credibility. And vice versa.

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