Responding to Coronavirus Pandemic, Trump Eliminates Interest on US Students Loans (politico.com) 171
An anonymous reader quotes Politico:
President Donald Trump on Friday said that he would eliminate the interest on federal student loans "until further notice" as part of a package of emergency executive actions designed to address the economic fallout from the coronavirus pandemic... The unprecedented move will provide relief to the more than 42 million Americans who owe more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding federal student loans...
It's not clear how much money the interest waiver will save borrowers, but it could be billions of dollars, depending on how long the Trump administration keeps the policy in place. In fiscal 2019 alone, the Education Department reported that it charged more than $100 billion in interest on all federal student loans...
The Education Department on Friday was still determining the mechanics of how to carry out Trump's announcement.
It's not clear how much money the interest waiver will save borrowers, but it could be billions of dollars, depending on how long the Trump administration keeps the policy in place. In fiscal 2019 alone, the Education Department reported that it charged more than $100 billion in interest on all federal student loans...
The Education Department on Friday was still determining the mechanics of how to carry out Trump's announcement.
How uncharacteristically..... socialist of him. (Score:3, Interesting)
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There aren't any ideals which are uncharacteristic for him, because he has no ideals.
Re:How uncharacteristically..... socialist of him. (Score:5, Funny)
You say that like he has characteristics beyond the obvious: greedy, self-centered, amoral, etc. He's a paranoid fucker, and maybe he believes some of the racist shit that he spews, but beyond that his politics are simply whatever he thinks will benefit himself most in that moment.
So, basically pretty much just like everybody who drives an automobile during rush hour traffic in California...
Re:How uncharacteristically..... socialist of him. (Score:5, Interesting)
From my observations if there's not some external unifying (us vs. them) factor that keeps people together under the banner of a specific political party you'll have a hard time finding two people who believe exactly the same. There's always potential for disagreement when it comes to the finer details of life, where you could say that people side on one issue with party A, on another one with party B, on the next one with party C, and on a different issue perhaps with no party at all.
As Friedrich Nietzsche observed: Der denkende Mensch ändert seine Meinung.
Roughly translates to: the thinking (hu)man changes their opinion. Maybe someone else will find more elegant words than that.
Now I'm not claiming that Trump does this because he's a great thinker. But I'm saying that changing one's opinion as a sign of lack of characteristics and having no ideals is preposterous.
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I'm saying that changing one's opinion as a sign of lack of characteristics and having no ideals is preposterous.
Changing one's opinion is not sufficient to demonstrate those things, but it's a perfectly fine piece of evidence. You say that like the fact that he changes his opinion is the only thing point that I raised there.
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Changing one's opinion is not sufficient to demonstrate those things, but it's a perfectly fine piece of evidence.
No it isn't. I am idealistic and purist, but have to recognize that getting shit done in the real world implies a complex mixture of listening, understanding, negotiation, and sometimes hardball.
Re:How uncharacteristically..... socialist of him. (Score:4, Informative)
Taken with just one other consideration, the fact that his decision making process seems to boil down to "I r smart," the fact that he flips from one position to another takes on additional meaning. He's not weighing new evidence, he's not being convinced by well reasoned arguments, he's going with whatever feels best to him, for him, in that moment.
Were that not the case, if he maintained consistent positions despite his inability to perform any kind of critical reasoning, it would suggest that he was an ideologue. He does not, and is not, and part of the reason that we can come to that conclusion is the fact that he flip-flops so much. Thankfully, we did not decide to ignore that piece of evidence.
The problem is you have to live in the system (Score:3)
Yeah, we know our system's fucked 8 ways from Sunday. But you can't really fix it by tearing it down in revolution. That just turns into violence and you end up with a King Rat running the show, like a Stalin or Mao. Violence never solves anything.
The best hope to fix things is the Democratic primary. There are a few Democrats who support things like Ranked Choice voting, universal sufferage (e.g. no more using minor drug offenses to take away voting rights), and other tactics to el
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Regardless, you make good points above. My belief is that we have to work with the "Establishment". It is what we h
Keynes slightly better (Score:2)
As Friedrich Nietzsche observed: Der denkende Mensch ändert seine Meinung. Roughly translates to: the thinking (hu)man changes their opinion. Maybe someone else will find more elegant words than that.
Keynes: "When my information changes, I change my mind. What do you do?"
Slightly better because it better qualifies the motivation of the person, information based where Nietzsche could include fashion or popularity based.
Re:How uncharacteristically..... socialist of him. (Score:4, Insightful)
Mark Hamil made s good point on Twitter.
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."- FDR
"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."- JFK
"I don't take responsibility at all."- DJT
https://twitter.com/HamillHims... [twitter.com]
Re:How uncharacteristically..... socialist of him. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Mod parent up, but I think it's interesting and funny more than insightful. Actually it needs a triple mod of "funny and interesting but sadly true".
The problem is the media should be hammering him (Score:3, Interesting)
And not just for political reasons (though I obvious wear my bias on my sleeve, or at least in my current sig).
We just had the President of the United States during an Epidemic literally say "I don't take responsibility at all". I don't think we as a country know how to process something of that scale. It belongs in a comedy sketch about opposite day.
We're not equipped as a people to have such a complet
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Everything about your comment is wrong. The question was based on a deliberate misrepresentation of Fauci's comments at the hearing. Fauci said so himself, many times. Fauci was talking about the design of the testing regime not being for containment of an epidemic, but for monitoring. This is not new, as Fauci repeatedly said.
What is new is that the healthcare professionals decided that this should be changed to fit the current situation, and it was changed.
There is no partisan angle here. Pretending
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Re: How uncharacteristically..... socialist of him (Score:2)
You know that it's possible for wisdom and poignant thoughts to come from "washed up actors" too, right?
Be careful what you ask for, as the same line of thinking could be used to ask "who gives a fuck what (you) think?"
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Trump reduced CDC funding and got rid of whole departments. Much expertise was lost. The ability to react quickly and effectively was diminished. Furthermore it's his job to lead in situations like this. He must accept responsibility for those things.
The Tories in the UK are in the same boat. Underfunded health services for a decade on purely ideological grounds. Now suddenly there is a magic money forest and they are borrowing even more than Labour proposed to, but it's far too late and a lot of people are
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Do you need me to spell this out? No, I am not telepathic.
Re: How uncharacteristically..... socialist of hi (Score:3)
Re: How uncharacteristically..... socialist of him (Score:2)
Re:How uncharacteristically..... socialist of him. (Score:5, Informative)
"When Mexico, meaning the Mexican government, sends its people They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
"Likewise, tremendous infectious disease is pouring across the border. The United States has become a dumping ground for Mexico and, in fact, for many other parts of the world."
"Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control."
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The third quote was from the early 90s (while he was a darling of the left), different times then.
Times can change. Trump can even change want he calls himself (Democrat --> Republican). But he has not (cannot?) change what he is deep down: A racist
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Re:How ..... socialist of him - not! (Score:3, Informative)
Actually it's quite in line with free-market thinking, as are many of the other measures proposed by Trump's crew or corporations and mislabelled "socialist" by actual socialists (in an effort to twit the capitalists and grab credit).
To understand this, it is important to distinguish mere, from "enlightened", self-interest. Sometimes it's in one party's interest to do something that looks like straight altruism.
This is one of those times. Trump is avoiding crippling students' ability to repay a loan by fo
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Isn't this more in line with "pander to the college age vote with money that doesn't come from this year's budget"? US Student loan debt is well over one trillion dollars, the "goods" for which the loans were provided have already been received by those students, and the interest pays for running the program and for the loans that students default on for reasons like poverty or death. This is an economic boost for current students whose academic year has been devastated by this pandemic, and whose employmen
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Isn't this more in line with "pander to the college age vote with money that doesn't come from this year's budget"?
You make it sound like the Democrat strategy
But where will the money to run the program and cover bad student loans come from?
He's only waiving the interest. The loan will still have to be repaid, it just won't attract interest in the meantime.
No it's wealth redistribution from pensions (Score:2)
Where do you suppose that interest was going? Well a lot of loan debt is held by pensions and annuities. RIght now the stock market is way down which is disaster(!!) for any pension since it has to sell shares every week even when the market is down to pay the annuity holders. So income like payment on loans (both the principle and the interest) are vital for cash flow to prevent bankrupting pensions.
this is wealth redistribution from the least able to afford it.
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Trump is avoiding crippling students' ability to repay a loan by forgiving the extra costs they'd have incurred from an unpredictable natural disaster that temporarily blocked their ability to pay, without forgiving the loan or the other interest.
Some people might think this should have been done before giving all those tax cuts to his rich buddies.
That's a whole lot of text to say (Score:2)
Oh, one more thing (Score:3, Informative)
Socialism is worker ownership of the means of production such that the value generated by workers goes to only the workers. It is a system where there is no ruling class who makes a living by owning things. Where the only way to make a living is by working.
But the American Right Wing has for over a century used the word "Socialism" to mean "The Government doi
Re:How uncharacteristically..... socialist of him. (Score:4, Insightful)
Compensating for catastrophic disruption of market is one of the key roles of government in capitalist societies. When even capitalist responses become "socialism" in your eyes because you understand that they are beneficial, it's time to seek help.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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Oh, I bet Betsy DeVos is still interested.
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>"How uncharacteristically..... socialist of him."
Not really. It is just one of many *temporary* responses to an emergency. I am not sure how valuable or useful such an action is, but it doesn't seem inappropriate. And it isn't much different than other temporary emergency financial actions to try and prevent a larger economic mess.
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it doesn't seem inappropriate.
To me it wouldn't seem an inappropriate time to reinstate the taxes he eliminated for all his rich buddies. "Temporarily", of course.
He could also scrap an F35 or two and devote the money to stockpiling decent face masks, etc. A virus like this is more inevitable than a major war and spending on war preparation doesn't seem to be a problem.
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Re:How uncharacteristically..... socialist of him. (Score:5, Informative)
Its weird how some of this happens. When the shit hits the fan, and politicians are forced to take decent humane actions to keep the population safe , a lot of those things they just spent the past decade decrying as "communist" are the things they end up doing.
Here in Australia the Liberal Party (our version of the republicans, dont let the name fool you) spent the past 6 years moaning and complaining about the 2008 economic bailout package the previous government had put in place. One where instead of bailing out the banks they instead gave the money to households and told them to spend it on whatever-the-fuck-they-want, a basic keynsian intervention. It left us the only country to not go into recession during that crisis.
Aaaand now the mortal opponents of that move are now going "Well shit, it did actually work when Rudd did it, so maybe we'll do that"
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Re: How uncharacteristically..... socialist of him (Score:2)
I find that the cynic in me keeps screaming that this is an attempt to either take away an issue from the Democrats, or to at least stick his finger in the primary soup.
Wrong Priorities (Score:3)
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I had considered that you could make an argument for a very basic universal healthcare in the name of national security, if for no other reason you have multitudes of homeless and whatnot with little means to track or treat them, and they are a chaotic vector for transmission.
One thing that did strike me is most other countries have a greater degree of socialized medicine which, on the one hand you end up with situations like Italy not treating, on the other you have an essentially a free-for-all in the US.
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Re:Wrong Priorities (Score:4, Interesting)
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Unfortunately it is hard to wire 50 cents to your WeChat account when we don't know who you are comrade. You'll have to log in to post more of this material to be paid.
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User Name: Boris&Natasha
Password: Moose&Squirrel
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Unfortunately it is hard to wire 50 cents to your WeChat account when we don't know who you are comrade. You'll have to log in to post more of this material to be paid.
You appear to know a lot about paid advocacy and foreign networks while conveniently ignoring the anonymous coward's mockery of the clickbait conspiracy post that links to a random blog. So you must like conspiracy. You must like risking malware. Carry on.
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The mockery is just as much a presumption on your part as taking it seriously was on his.
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Chinese culture accelerated the propagation of the coronavirus from China to the rest of the world. An analysis [nytimes.com] published by the New York Times explains how the Chinese tendency to hide the truth allowed the coronavirus to spread quickly.
Get more info [blogspot.com] about Chinese culture.
It's almost as if you believe the American Government is telling 100% of the truth.
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Since you said "accelerated", I've got to agree. But it's worth noting that the virus was on several continents before the Chinese knew it was present. So their responsibility is limited.
Assuming it started in Wuhan, it had spread to the US, to France, and to several other locations before late January. If intercontinental travel had been stopped solid on February 1, it would still be everywhere, because the first major distribution points were the airports. It *is* true that continued flow of infected
Maintenance (Score:5, Interesting)
An untenable cycle of additional loans to pay only the interest was a "maintenance" of the principal. The principal of the student loans is, imO, too large to allow an interest to accrue. When I left school, a Stafford loan was 5%, but as this financial market expanded, interest rates rose to, what is now, a similar "untenable" degree.
No doubt, loanees are relieved to have a break, but this decision protects loaners who brought yet another financials market to a brink through regulatory capture.
But my professional life has never crossed paths with either business or financials, so, any elucidation is welcomed.
Re:Maintenance (Score:5, Interesting)
I honestly can't tell if any of the words you wrote are meant to say anything, or this is some sort of AI-generated experiment.
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No doubt, loanees are relieved to have a break, but this decision protects loaners who brought yet another financials market to a brink through regulatory capture.
I think this is the real point... as long as it's frozen you're not going to default on it, avoiding another credit meltdown like in 2008. But once the emergency measures end you're still just as much in the hole as before. This is probably just as much for the lender's benefit than for the loaner.
Yep (Score:2)
His creditors didn't take all his money because they were counting on him earning money off his celebrity status and therefor being able to pay more of what he owed back. It wasn't them being charitable, it was a calculated move to maximize profit from a debtor who otherwise might never make another payment again.
Socialism the Republicans might be able to handle. (Score:2)
What if we go further and just suspend ALL interest on everything.... you still owe the money, but the crippling effect of compound interest gets temporarily handled by the Fed instead? It would be an amazingly efficient stimulus.
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Problem here is that interest serves a critical function in lending process. It's an evaluation of risk, and a controller of risk. It's size is related to the risk that lender has that this loan will be defaulted on, and it controls the size of the loan in relation to the risk.
Removing interest on all loans effectively does the same thing that insuring subprime loans and repackaging them as top tier loans did, only in a far more efficient and destructive way.
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The costs of maintaining the debt, and of bad debt, was bundled into the US deficit. The costs for that have still not been paid.
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If the government stopped spending right now the economy would tailspin into the ground.
Re: Socialism the Republicans might be able to han (Score:2)
"Problem here is that interest serves a critical function in the usury process. It's an evaluation of social class, and a controller of the lower orders. It's size is related to the certainty that lender has that this borrower can be exploited, and it controls the capital of the common people in relation to their social status."
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Problem here is that interest serves a critical function in lending process. It's an evaluation of risk, and a controller of risk. It's size is related to the risk that lender has that this loan will be defaulted on, and it controls the size of the loan in relation to the risk.
astrofurter's Seminar in Why your cousin's illicit trade is profitable after the vig.
"Problem here is that interest serves a critical function in the usury process. It's an evaluation of social class, and a controller of the lower orders. It's size is related to the certainty that lender has that this borrower can be exploited, and it controls the capital of the common people in relation to their social status."
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You know, just because you use far left emotive language like translating "lending" to "usury" and then pretending that borrower is "exploited" rather than "offered an opportunity he wouldn't have without the lending", you're going to look smart.
News flash. The only people who'll agree with you are those within your tribe and stupid enough to not have ever touched any basic book on economics. Meanwhile everyone else understands that having an opportunity to take out a loan to invest in something doesn't mea
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I wouldn't know, as I make a point of not being a bootlicker, unlike some others who are more than willing to peddle silliest kinds of propaganda narratives.
P.S. Nomen est omen.
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The US government has no authority to do that.
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Stimulus is the last thing the world needs right now, what is needed is for governments to help businesses put everything on hold until this unfolding global disaster is over.
A lot of things should be put on hold such as any kind of loan repayments. Maybe even rents.
Or we could let 5 to 10% of the population die and carry on like nothing is happening. (sarcasm but this is what western gov'ts are effectively doing right now).
Because concerns about student loan interest.. (Score:4, Insightful)
It makes perfect sense (Score:2)
It takes a mind-boggling level of cynicism of Trump to blind yourself to be unable to see this. I think he's a terrible President, but this is a g
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Of the four comments moderated "Insightful", this is the one that seems to come closest to actual insight, but for shallow values of insight.
Hmm... I guess the weakest part is the "probably" (modifying "misguided") that should be "obviously". Perhaps it's just another limitation of my imagination, but I am completely unable to imagine any chain of reasoning that could have led anyone, even Trump, to think that reducing interest payments on student debt is a useful response to the Covid-19 pandemic. It's lik
Re:Because concerns about student loan interest.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Because concerns about student loan interest.. (Score:2)
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It's not the flu, but wuflu does name it in a willfully biased and incorrect way. Yeah it's stupid. Yeah, it's wrong. Yeah, it's a political signal. But it is a name that refers to COVID-19 and nothing else. And it's easier to say or type than COVID-19, so good luck changing the usage. (See Zipf's law.)
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It gives people some money to spend this month.
How did you come to this conclusion?
He pointedly did NOT suspend loan repayments, which the Democrats actually argued for (RTFA). So the people with student loans aren't any more liquid today than they were a couple days ago - they have the exact same loan payment due as before.
Next intelligent step (Score:2, Insightful)
Abolish student loans. Make education free.
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No, but education is primarily a social good rather than in an individual good. (That's secondary, when present.) So it's reasonable for society to pay for it, especially when there are a large number of unemployed, which there are, even if the government doesn't acknowledge it.
It already is free (Score:2)
Incidentally, the massive increase in college tuition is the direct result of misguided attempts to make educa
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Quality and cost of education don't necessarily correlate: if the state chooses to make education free but don't pour enough money into it, you get a poorly educated popution. That's most likely what would happen in the US if they chose that route.
But a poorly educated population is better than one without any education at all for lack of money. Also, good students can overcom and make the best of a bad educational system, and get a worthwhile degree, while a poor student doesn't even get to go to class or
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Or comeptition from the plebs. If you keep the lowlives just enough educated to serve us while limiting higher education and the really important jobs to us, that's how you divide and rule.
Re: Next intelligent step (Score:2)
Look at AOC and then try to repeat that sentence with a straight face ...
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No, that's what conservatism is. It's in the name.
I know that far left can't win any arguments by means other than redefining words to mean something other than they mean, as you do above.
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Actually left's arguments are coherent arguments that make a great point.
It's the far left that acts as a spoiler, just like far right used to act as a spoiler for kind of coherent arguments from the right.
Executive Power? (Score:2)
How exactly is this constitutional? Congress presumably by law granted the Executive the right to make the loans and charge the interest -- I seriously doubt there's a "but waive it whenever you feel like" clause... if there is, the article definitely doesn't say it.
I know, I know... the FYTW clause strikes again. So annoying.
(And before someone starts frothing in a rage -- I don't think this is a terrible idea for an economic stimulus given the stupid amounts of debt folks are apparently running up, not go
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This is actually the RIGHT thing to do, EXCEPT, that we should be raising interest by
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Yeah. And it says the federal government isn't allowed to do anything that isn't specifically mentioned in the Constitution.
Mind you, I don't think it would work, because the Constitution have never been properly updated to handle rapid transportation and communication, and a much large population. But I do know what it says. And I know that lawyers who tell you what it means lie in their teeth, but often for the best of reasons (i.e. they want to keep things functioning at at least a minimal level).
The
how about that (Score:2)
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HAHAHAHA, I see what you did there! You capitalized the "con" in Congress implying they con people!
First grade called and wants its clever back.
This isn't going to help borrowers day-to-day. (Score:2)
Borrower's payments aren't determined or recalculated on a month-to-month basis. They are usually re-certified annually or put on a set number of payments (10 year, 15 year, etc). So suspending the interest rate temporarily will probably not lower the payment, it will instead ensure that more payment is applied to principle.
If the goal is cash flow relief to borrowers then some sort of expedited forbearance may be more useful.
what can trump do? (Score:2)
so can the mr. almighty and super wise just say so and all debt becomes interest free? is there something he cannot just decide and make it so? seems like quite dictatorial set of powers you have there. glad it is never in the hands of anyone unstable...
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Unless the Federal government actually owns them, this sounds like grounds for a lawsuit
He only did this for the ones that the government does actually own. (He didn't even ask the financial institutions that own the rest to follow suit.)
Yes, it would be grounds for a lawsuit. It would be a "taking" under the Fifth Amendment. So the government would have to pay back every penny of interest they made the lenders give up.
(Unless they managed to disguise it as a tax - as Obama did with the penalty for not b
Re: Who actually owns those loans? (Score:2)
In Soviet America, court protects usury from the people!
You misspelled "fascist" though. (Score:2)
That Mussolini style, that got updated as neo-libertarian.
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He only did it for the ones he owns, but it's gonna cause all the other ones to go way more delinquent.
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"See, I can be like Bernie." - Trump
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With the difference that it's mostly cargo cult. He goes through the motions but doesn't understand the reason.
What the fuck is this supposed to accomplish?
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It's supposed to give his troll mobs something else to misunderstand and shout about. Sanders wants to eliminate people's student loans. Trump isn't even suspending payments, just interest. But the trumpanzees will still jump up and down and say "look how kind our orange shitgibbon can be!"
Well, they won't use those words. But that's what I'll hear
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Well the important thing is you've convinced yourself that people are bleating "ORANGE MAN BAD",ORANGE MAN BAD" even though no one is except for you. Well, why let facts get in the way of your anger, eh?
Re: Student Loan Interest is ABSURD anyway (Score:2)
If you believe that the government borrows money at 0% interest, you certainly have no business commenting on any financial matters.
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I think he's calling "printing money" "borrowing money at 0% interest". I can see arguments that that's true, but I'm not sure they convince.