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The Courts Technology

'The Ducks Have Won': French Court Says They May Keep on Quacking (reuters.com) 124

Posted by msmash from the meanwhile-in-some-other-news dept.
The ducks on a small French smallholding may carry on quacking, a French court ruled this week, rejecting a neighbor's complaint that the birds' racket was making their life a misery. From a report: The court in the town of Dax ruled that the noise from the flock of around 60 ducks and geese kept by retired farmer Dominique Douthe in the foothills of the Pyrenees, southwestern France, was within acceptable limits, broadcaster France 3 said. "The ducks have won," Douthe told Reuters after the court decision. "I'm very happy because I didn't want to slaughter my ducks." The complaint was brought by Douthe's neighbor who moved from the city around a year ago into a property about 50 meters (yards) away from the enclosure in the Soustons district where Douthe keeps her flock. The dispute is the latest in a series of court cases that have pitted the traditional way of life in rural France against modern values which, country-dwellers say, are creeping in from the city.
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'The Ducks Have Won': French Court Says They May Keep on Quacking More

'The Ducks Have Won': French Court Says They May Keep on Quacking

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  • Something is wrong with this guy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gmack ( 197796 ) <<gmack> <at> <innerfire.net>> on Friday November 22, 2019 @11:07AM (#59443082) Homepage Journal

    If you purchase property next to a duck farm, you can expect noise. It's not fair to anyone to try and change the neighboring businesses after you move in.

    • Re:Something is wrong with this guy (Score:5, Funny)

      by OrangAsm ( 678078 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @11:24AM (#59443166)
      How are they supposed to gentrify the neighborhood if they can't demand changes like this? Why not compromise with a soundproof duckwall?

    • This is just the last in a long, long line of stories about city people who move to the countryside - for whatever reasons - and discover that it can be noisy, dirty, smelly, etc.

      Whenever I find myself being unduly critical of such people, I remember my father's story about how, as a young teacher, he found it almost impossible to convince working-class Glasgow boys that milk came from cows.

      They knew, of course, that it came from glass bottles in the dairy.

      • Re:Something is wrong with this guy (Score:5, Insightful)

        by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @11:39AM (#59443216)

        This is just the last in a long, long line of stories about city people who move to the countryside

        Sorry but this isn't about city people moving into the country side, but rather idiots moving to a new location in general without research. We hear the same stories about people moving into apartments on busy pedestrian malls and then complaining about the nightclub on the ground floor, or people moving near an industrial zone complaining about truck traffic, or my own experience 2 weeks ago, collating 24 months worth of H2S data from our boundary sensors because some numbskull thought it would be a bright idea to move in next door to an oil refinery and then decided to complain about the smell of sulphur. Sorry but that plant has been there since the 60s, you've been there since the 6th of May.

        Idiots are everywhere, country towns don't have a monopoly on dealing with stupid residents from somewhere else.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Daetrin ( 576516 )
          Or in Seattle (and probably other places as well) people who move to SeaTac (the local airport) and then complain about the noise from planes flying over their homes.

          • Like the people who moved in next to Whidbey Island Air Base, and then proceeded to file complaints about the noise of the Navy jets flying overhead. The base has only been in continuous operation since 1941, so you can understand why some people might not have known about it.

            • Like the people who moved in next to Whidbey Island Air Base, and then proceeded to file complaints about the noise of the Navy jets flying overhead. The base has only been in continuous operation since 1941, so you can understand why some people might not have known about it.

              Indeed here in my city a developer wants to build new high rise apartments in the flight path of our airport that handles cargo flights on a 24 hour basis. The airport authority is rightly opposed, because it's not exactly rocket surgery what is going to happen next........

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

                Indeed here in my city a developer wants to build new high rise apartments in the flight path of our airport that handles cargo flights on a 24 hour basis. The airport authority is rightly opposed, because it's not exactly rocket surgery what is going to happen next........

                It's actually less about the noise and more about the apartment being in the direct flight path of the aircraft. As in, the old joke about the sign saying "Low flying aircraft" with an aircraft-shaped bit chewed out at the top.

                Near an air

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by HiThere ( 15173 )

            Well....I've been in a place where the airport changed the flight patterns for some reason...and we really noticed the difference. So it's not "open and shut" they were stupidly negligent.

            And 60 ducks sounds like a lot for a non-commercial operation. (That number was in the story, not the summary.)

            • They changed the flight patterns because the people it used to bother complained, probably with a local politician or two living in that area.

              But since most people arent paying any attention, at all, to local politics.... they get "blindsided" by these changes, long after the point where they should have said something.

              (Ar you in Rhode Island, Cranston area? I know exactly which local politician it was if so...)

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by HiThere ( 15173 )

                Actually, it was SFO, and I think they built a new airstrip to accommodate increased traffic.

                Easy cynicism isn't always the right answer.

        • Re: Something is wrong with this guy (Score:4, Insightful)

          by OneSmartFellow ( 716217 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @12:28PM (#59443448)
          The plant might have been there since the 60s, but no doubt emissions regulations have changed in the last 60 years.

          I'm not taking sides, but the complaint may very well have merit

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by Anonymous Coward

            You're damn right the complaint has merit. I live in an urban area with a river that runs through it. There's a handful of people that think it's their god given right to attract and feed the ducks in their backyard. So much so that these ducks no longer are migratory and have become feral in nature. They have lost all fear of humans and will actively approach them when they see one. They have become dependent on the handouts and so the large flock flies up and down the river looking for bird feed rather th

            • I know. Next time someone comes and feeds rich amine to the claus furnace we should shoe them off before our sulphur plant becomes feral and starts asking members of the public for some more flow.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by sjames ( 1099 )

              A lot of it depends on which came first, the complainer or the subject of their complaints.

              For example, in your case if the ducks were there and being fed before you moved in, you shouldn't have moved there. If the ducks came later, then the neighbors shouldn't be creating the nuisance.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Cederic ( 9623 )

              But ducks are awesome. They're cute and they go 'quack' which is absolutely marvellous.

              If you don't like ducks quacking then wear something on your head to block the noise. If you don't want ducks to approach you then stay away from where they live. If you don't like ducks then you're a nasty person and I don't like you.

              Ducks are awesome.

          • The plant might have been there since the 60s, but no doubt emissions regulations have changed in the last 60 years.

            Exactly. Which is why I was collating the data to hand to the regulator to show them we're well within all *current* emissions limits.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

          We hear the same stories about people moving into apartments on busy pedestrian malls and then complaining about the nightclub on the ground floor.

          I've heard people complaining about that *at a beach resort*, and there wasn't even a night club where they were, just shops and restaurants. The worst part is that the town council heard them and ordered the shops to close earlier.
          And by people, I mean people who are on vacation, not locals or people who work there. The thing they complain about is the entire reason why people like them get there. /facepalm

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion

          • Sorry, I'm in Europe and that site would far rather fuck you over and invade your privacy than comply with the GDPR and therefore is restricted to EU visitors.

      • Whenever I find myself being unduly critical of such people, I remember my father's story about how, as a young teacher, he found it almost impossible to convince working-class Glasgow boys that milk came from cows.

        They knew, of course, that it came from glass bottles in the dairy.

        Tell me about it. I lived on my grandparent's farm for a bit as a teenager and I'll never forget the time they had a foster girl move in only for her to learn after her third helping of thanksgiving ham (I'm kind of a bastard) that A: Ham comes from Pigs, and B: That particular ham came from the cute pig she named the month before. She wouldn't eat meat for a month.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jbengt ( 874751 )
          That sounds like my daughter when she was young and first found out that hotdogs are made from animals. Now she married a man who doesn't eat vegetables.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Ogive17 ( 691899 )
          My wife will not each chicken wings or legs (meat with bone still in) because her grandpa and brother slaughtered and cooked her "pet" chicken growing up... and told her about it while she was eating.

          Funny but cruel!
      • I am reminded of something I remember hearing decades and decades ago, long enough that I don't remember the context, something about children being shocked, shocked, I tell you, that beef came from cows, and not magically manufactured in the butcher shop.
        In more recent times: rotary-dial telephones ("that can't be a real phone!") and analog clocks ("that can't be a real clock!").
        I'd also imagine: something like a mainframe computer ("that can't be a real computer! Must be a movie prop!").

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jbengt ( 874751 )
          Or my nephew, who was incredulous that "that salad dressing guy" was a big movie star.

      • Not uncommon.

        I have lived out in the country on 36 acres for 25 years. I am in the middle of a lawsuit with a neighbor who bought land next to me 4 years ago. He claims that me using a tractor or chainsaw on a weekend, which I do about once a month, I am hurting his airbnb rental business. He doesn't even live here. I live here full time, but I have an actual job in the city (30 miles away, not a bad commute) during the week.

        There are several cabins and a big house on his land, and he often rents to lar

    • If you purchase property next to a duck farm, you can expect noise. It's not fair to anyone to try and change the neighboring businesses after you move in.

      Common sense and fair are not something that you can expect from some city dwellers. Their desire to change what was working just fine before their arrival due to their dislike of it is super strong. Later they'll probably complain that the area has lost its country charm too. This is one reason why they have such a bad reputation among those in the country.

      • People in the city live cheek by jowl, and (normal) people as a matter of course try and limit the amount of noise they subject their neighbors to, especially outside working hours. You kind of have to, if everyone is to keep their sanity. As a result, city people are much quicker to complain when the expected noise levels are exceeded, and much quicker to sue (and win, too) if the neighbor takes no action.

        In the city, that is what "common sense" and "fair" look like. The issue is not city dwellers hav

        • People in the city live cheek by jowl, and (normal) people as a matter of course try and limit the amount of noise they subject their neighbors to, especially outside working hours. You kind of have to, if everyone is to keep their sanity. As a result, city people are much quicker to complain when the expected noise levels are exceeded, and much quicker to sue (and win, too) if the neighbor takes no action. In the city, that is what "common sense" and "fair" look like. The issue is not city dwellers having the wrong values (even though people in gentrified neighborhoods seem to have a rather lower tolerance level), but thinking those same values work in the countryside too. And the reverse also happens: plenty of court cases where an ex farmer moving to a city or suburb looked at his little garden and thought: "This is great, I can keep a bunch of chickens here", only to be ordered to remove them after noise complaints.

          The difference that I've seen is that city people move to the country then start complaining and making changes. I've rarely, maybe never, seen it happen the other way.

      • If you purchase property next to a duck farm, you can expect noise. It's not fair to anyone to try and change the neighboring businesses after you move in.

        Common sense and fair are not something that you can expect from some city dwellers. Their desire to change what was working just fine before their arrival due to their dislike of it is super strong. Later they'll probably complain that the area has lost its country charm too. This is one reason why they have such a bad reputation among those in the country.

        Yes. See "Chesterton's Fence".

        • Yes. See "Chesterton's Fence".

          I read and post for the moments like these when I learn something of value. I hadn't heard of Chesterton's Fence before - thanks for the reference. Amusing to note that the reformers of his day were as just as quick to break things as the reformers of today.

          • Yes. See "Chesterton's Fence".

            I read and post for the moments like these when I learn something of value. I hadn't heard of Chesterton's Fence before - thanks for the reference. Amusing to note that the reformers of his day were as just as quick to break things as the reformers of today.

            Glad to be of service!

    • Apparently some people don't understand the difference between 'suburbs' and 'rural'.

    • This happens a lot with rural shooting ranges - people move near the range, and are shocked, shocked I tell you, that there is regular gunfire there. News flash: Airports will have airplanes, farms will have farm animals, and so on. Don't like it? Buy someplace else.

    • A person who purchased a home near a pig farm in Langley, BC tried to sue the farmer over the smell. Zero sympathy for the guy who bought a house and then decided he didn't like the neighourhood.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gmack ( 197796 )

        That has happened more than once in BC. Pig and mushroom farms. People buy cheap and then find out why it was so cheap.

    • "If you purchase property next to a duck farm, you can expect noise. "

      I expected news for nerds stuff that matters and I get ducks and geese.
      I even read TFA (I know) but no 3d printer, cellphone, computer nor bitcoin anywhere.

      We can't always get what we want.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sjames ( 1099 )

        If you screw up with duck typing, an exception will be thrown...

        • If you screw up with duck typing, an exception will be thrown...

          That is why smart farmers type cast their ducks in C# instead of java. It has better shit spreading libraries and the garbage collection to clean up the mess afterward.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by guruevi ( 827432 )

      It's Europe, you're not supposed to have a successful business - success is evil.

  • What does the law say about moving into a property with a pre-existing "nuisance" in the area? For instance, if you moved into a house next to a nightclub and complained about the noise
    • Actually it happens. When downtown austin "transformed", a couple of new condo's complained about the noise on 6th street. Duh. As I recall, the clubs toned it down a bit. But to move to the country and not expect country sounds, well, dumb. France did the right thing.

  • Acceptable level of quackery (Score:5, Funny)

    by sinij ( 911942 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @11:19AM (#59443136)

    I would like to know what is acceptable level of quackery in rural France and how does this compare to the continental United States?

    • continental United States?

      Has Brexit already happened? Has the UK moved to the US? "Continental Europe" is Europe without the UK and Ireland, but what is continental United States?

      • The lower 48 states, plus Alaska. Exclude Hawaii.
        • Officially the CONUS only includes the "lower 48" (not AK or HI). It makes a big difference--travel to AK/HI falls under International Travel guidelines for govt TDY travel. It actually makes quite a difference.
          • And, Yes, I have personally experience--had to fill out the forms for travel to both states. :-).
            • (You can take leave-in-conjunction--I.e., the govt pays for your flight, you just have to pay expenses for the Leave days. But in OCONUS travel you can only take as many Leave days as you had Duty days. Don't ask me how I found that out :-) ).

      • United States without Hawaii
        https://simple.m.wikipedia.org... [wikipedia.org]

      • but what is continental United States?

        Generally, CONUS (Continental US) is the contiguous 48 States (everything but Alaska and Hawaii). Yes, technically, Alaska is in North America. Nonetheless, having to fly there or pass through another country makes it out-CONUS....

        ---former Army brat, who became all too familiar with CONUS and related terms growing up....

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @11:19AM (#59443140)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Selur ( 2745445 )

      .. and why is this tagged with 'technology'?

      • A couple of audio geeks got hired to use all their cool equipment to measure the noise level of a bunch of ducks. They probably blogged the entire thing with videos and graphs. Any nerd would be proud.

    • Has anyone else noticed how slashdot has started auto-playing movies in the lower-right corner of your screen?

      It's quite awful.

      • On my phone, movies at the bottom right, "back" button hijacking to bs ads like "Trudeau reveals how he got rich on Bitcoin to Stephen Colbert", and severe lag lately when trying to scroll around.
        Just a complete garbage "news" site these days.

      • No. Then again, I pruned the holy hell out of the imported js SlashDot attempts to foist. I've been told by SlashDot I'm eligible to turn off adds. I just crimp their ability to deliver them in the first place.
      • I placed a post-it note in that area of the screen as I seldom use it anyway. And I never browse slashdot with the audio on, so if they play audio, i wouldn't know.
    • Well, there's a new rule of Duck Typing: If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it can still be legal.
    • Yeah, it's a bit of a canard.

    • It's rather interesting to me, so I like it.

      You did take the time to comment rather than ignore.

      And if not for Slashdot, I would have never come into contact with this. That's why I like Slashdot.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hmckee ( 10407 )

      I'm a nerd. Ducks matter to me. This was the most interesting story on Slashdot today.

    • Any time an article does not have "user xxxx writes:" or a similar phrase in the intro to the summary, it's an article that's been selected by one of the slashdot "editors" who is using the site as their personal blog.

      Back in the days before Rob sold the site, only about 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 articles were like this. And usually it was an article picked by Rob since, well in a way, it was his personal blog. But nowadays about half to a majority of the articles are editor selections, rather than user submi

  • Oldest solutions are best (Score:5, Funny)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @11:20AM (#59443142)

    Don't understand why the locals didn't 't simply drag her out of the house to tar and feather her, to shame her for attacking the local community. It worked in the olden days!

    It's not like they don't have the feathers.

    • You win "comment of the day'.

    • "Sufferin' succotash!" - D. Duck
    • You joke, but once upon a time people relied on the community around them. Being a cantankerous fucknut making demands had consequences such as not being able to buy milk or eggs, or any number of other things that the community you are attacking could deprive you of.

      While this is generally not true any longer, even in rural areas, its still looming.

  • US rural zoning laws cover this... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by kbonin ( 58917 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @11:28AM (#59443178)
    There are interesting clauses in US zoning laws around this problem space, specifically stating that within rural areas (rural residential, farm & forest, exclusive farm use) you're not allowed to complain about noises 'typical' to farm, agricultural, or forestry use. The main potentially colliding laws are the noise ordances in municipal areas that allow you to file complaints if noises exceed particular limits (typically 60-80 dBA) between certain hours at your property line. So a suit this would (normally) be automatically dismissed. If you tried testing rocket engines on your rural property without suitable noise abatement you might have to deal with the neighbors and the nearest municipality.

  • Reminds me of the gun range... (Score:3)

    by RJFerret ( 1279530 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @12:00PM (#59443312)

    Woman comes out to see a property during the week, and buys a house in a suburban area with a wooded hill behind it which the kitchen window faces.

    One weekend shes doing dishes and hears a huge BOOM! Then another, and more! She calls the police.

    Police come and investigate, find what they described as, "one of the better/safer backyard gun ranges we've seen in town", and return to tell her, "welcome to town" aka your new lifestyle.

    Poor thing had no idea that her neighbor enjoyed some larger caliber things.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

      Woman comes out to see a property during the week, and buys a house in a suburban area with a wooded hill behind it which the kitchen window faces.

      One weekend shes doing dishes and hears a huge BOOM! Then another, and more! She calls the police.

      Police come and investigate, find what they described as, "one of the better/safer backyard gun ranges we've seen in town", and return to tell her, "welcome to town" aka your new lifestyle.

      Poor thing had no idea that her neighbor enjoyed some larger caliber things.

      Well, they always say when looking to buy a new house you should check the neighborhood both during the weekday and on weekends to determine noise and traffic levels.

      • Well, they always say when looking to buy a new house you should check the neighborhood both during the weekday and on weekends to determine noise and traffic levels.

        I wish I would have looked at my place around 10pm-4am. The rats and possums running on the fence set the neighbor's dogs on a wild barking fit every night. The dogs even managed to knock the fence over after I moved in. Not sure why people own dogs in the suburbs when they keep them outside all the time.

        • Not sure why people own dogs in the suburbs when they keep them outside all the time.

          Really?

          You had just answered this fucking question in the sentences you wrote before you asked it. There are wild animals about. Rats and possums at the very least.

  • People move in next to an airport that has been there for decades, and complain because flight path's cross over their houses. People living by interstates want sound walls put up, even though the highway was always there. Millions and millions of dollars for these sound walls to appease a few.

    Myself, I live near an airport, major highway, and also busy train tracks. The sound puts me to sleep, I can tell what time it is by the silence due to less traffic. And also tell what time it is when noise picks up. All of these were there before I moved there, so I have no reason to complain. Others expect otherwise. Because I get censored in the local news when I comment, I can only call them idiots.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

      People move in next to an airport that has been there for decades, and complain because flight path's cross over their houses.

      Growing up I used to live somewhat near a small AFB that also had a Lockheed Martin facility attached. Besides the usual C-130s doing touch and goes you could usually see Cobras and Blackhawks fly overhead. I once saw an F-117 flying super low, and I even could see unpainted F-22s and chaser planes doing flight tests before they went into general production. It was a rather enjoyable experience.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rjune ( 123157 )

      Part is cluelessness, part is due to the realtors. For example, in Milwaukee, if a house is west of the airport, it is only shown on days that the North/South runway is in use. Realtors could give tech representative lessons in lying by omission. If you are looking at a house, you need to do independent research, such as visiting at times not set by your realtor.

  • Don't like the ducks' quacking? (Score:3)

    by Malays Boweman ( 5369355 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @12:16PM (#59443408)
    Tough shit- move!

  • Tired of people and their bullshit. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Malays Boweman ( 5369355 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @12:18PM (#59443418)
    I don't mind the ducks. I don't want to hear peoples' stupid mouths. Get rid of the people, not the wildlife.

  • Same thing happening in the US (Score:4, Informative)

    by BrookHarty ( 9119 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @12:33PM (#59443470) Journal

    I've seen numerous stories of out of state people buying rural farms to retire on, then complaining about neighboring farms are loud and smell, then jump straight to suing the neighboring farms.

    There is an area north of Spokane WA on highway 2, lots of cattle farms, but developers learned they could split the farms into 20 acres plots for mc' mansions and sell to out of staters (Mostly Californians), They even put in high-speed internet to these rural 800K+ homes, paved drive ways to the dirt roads, Average homes on small plots still go for 150K starting, Quite the sight to see BMW's and Mercedes behind tractors on dirt/gravel roads.

    This is happening everywhere in the USA as house prices are so high, and people sell for a major profit to retire in smaller rural farming towns.

  • Wisconsin passed laws because of this issue. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by rjune ( 123157 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @01:34PM (#59443690)

    Wisconsin passed laws to protect farmers for this very reason. A fancy subdivision would be built next to a working farm and the new residents would complain about the smells. The newbies didn't like the farm fresh smell of manure. A friend of ours who keeps about 20 to 30 head of milking cows got a call from a neighbor concerned that the cows were in an unheated barn during a cold spell. Don't worry - the cows were fine and probably smarter than the neighbor.

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