Israel Accused of Planting Mysterious Spy Devices Near the White House (politico.com) 113
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Politico: The U.S. government concluded within the past two years that Israel was most likely behind the placement of cellphone surveillance devices that were found near the White House and other sensitive locations around Washington, according to three former senior U.S. officials with knowledge of the matter. But unlike most other occasions when flagrant incidents of foreign spying have been discovered on American soil, the Trump administration did not rebuke the Israeli government, and there were no consequences for Israel's behavior, one of the former officials said.
The miniature surveillance devices, colloquially known as "StingRays," mimic regular cell towers to fool cellphones into giving them their locations and identity information. Formally called international mobile subscriber identity-catchers or IMSI-catchers, they also can capture the contents of calls and data use. The devices were likely intended to spy on President Donald Trump, one of the former officials said, as well as his top aides and closest associates -- though it's not clear whether the Israeli efforts were successful. An Israeli Embassy spokesperson denied that Israel placed the devices and said: "These allegations are absolute nonsense. Israel doesn't conduct espionage operations in the United States, period."
Furthermore, after this story was published, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu denied that Israel was behind the devices. "We have a directive, I have a directive: No intelligence work in the United States, no spies," he said in a gaggle with reporters. "And it's vigorously implemented, without any exception. It [the report] is a complete fabrication, a complete fabrication."
The miniature surveillance devices, colloquially known as "StingRays," mimic regular cell towers to fool cellphones into giving them their locations and identity information. Formally called international mobile subscriber identity-catchers or IMSI-catchers, they also can capture the contents of calls and data use. The devices were likely intended to spy on President Donald Trump, one of the former officials said, as well as his top aides and closest associates -- though it's not clear whether the Israeli efforts were successful. An Israeli Embassy spokesperson denied that Israel placed the devices and said: "These allegations are absolute nonsense. Israel doesn't conduct espionage operations in the United States, period."
Furthermore, after this story was published, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu denied that Israel was behind the devices. "We have a directive, I have a directive: No intelligence work in the United States, no spies," he said in a gaggle with reporters. "And it's vigorously implemented, without any exception. It [the report] is a complete fabrication, a complete fabrication."
BREAKING NEWS: Spies plant spy devices!!! (Score:1)
Film at 11.
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Just wait until somebody claims that it is anti-semitic to call Israel out on spying on the US, one of their strongest allies.
Re:BREAKING NEWS: Spies plant spy devices!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
Just want to say, I'm Jewish, and it's completely not antisemitic to state facts. However, if you deduce from this there is a grand jewish cabal controlling everything or in general jump to a conclusion based on one incident, then that's antisemitism.
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I appreciate your rational view, but many Fundamentalist Christians in America are quick to call any factual criticism of Israel 'anti semitism', just to support their own goals of seeing the 2nd Coming after they get the Muslims and Jews to go to war after the Dome of the Rock is destroyed.
Seriously, you can't make the crap up :/
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'tis a bit worse than that. Pompeo is an Evangelical nutjob who thinks the world is in the End-O-Times and Jesus will be a'comin' round the corner at anytime. Even the eegit in the White House has a Prosperity Preacher as a Spiritual Advisor....bwahahahahaha....the whole idea of him thinking he's lesser than what god they are pushing is laughable. Trump probably feels an affinity toward the P. Preacher as grifters know a fellow grifter when they see one.
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OK, this year it didn't work out but next year will be Jesus year, I promise! 2020 will be the Year of the Jesus!
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Sit on it . . . Potsie :-)
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sad, you actually think that you are witty by quoting... the fonz?
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In theory stating facts is not antisemitic but in practice it somehow always is.
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if you deduce from this there is a grand jewish cabal controlling everything or in general jump to a conclusion based on one incident, then that's antisemitism.
Is that truly anti semitism or is it just deluded thinking.
I would say that antisemitism, at its core, would be something negative based on the sole fact that someone (or some group) is jewish. Just like racism is something negative based only on someones race.
The way you state it everyone who jumps to the wrong conclusions about jews (or basically about any social group) would immediately be antisemitic. If you think about that for a while then you'll see that that is a pretty radical point of view. Bein
Re:BREAKING NEWS: Spies plant spy devices!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
spying on the US, one of their strongest allies.
Allies spy on each other all the time. Back in 2013, the NSA was caught tapping into Angela Merkel's cell phone.
Spying is GOOD. The world has stumbled into war many times based on gross misjudgments about the intentions and motivations of both enemies and allies. Diplomatic transparency is the best solution, but spying is better than blindness.
Re:BREAKING NEWS: Spies plant spy devices!!! (Score:5, Informative)
Diplomatic transparency is the best solution, but spying is better than blindness.
This guy is mostly unknown, but he probably prevented a Third World Nuclear War: Top Hat [wikipedia.org]
His information told the CIA that Russia did not want to go to war over Cuba, back in the Kennedy days.
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In such cases those who are opposed to you can utilize that newly generated momentum for their own interests.
For example the NSA thing in 2013, despite Obama being quite popular among Germans, created a lot of Kremlin sympathisers among some of the more stupid ones of my fellow Germans (there's plenty of them) in the long run. Russian state media, which specifically targets German audiences, repeated the story until they were beating
We spy on them, they spy on us (Score:2)
Back in 2013, the NSA was caught tapping into Angela Merkel's cell phone.
And the Germans were also spying on the United States. [spiegel.de] Not to sound too cynical, but everyone spies on everyone, even allies and friends - despite all the rockiness, we're still all very interdependent on one another, so it helps to know just what the other person is thinking. If they're not spying, it's probably because they don't have the resources to do it properly.
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spying on the US, one of their strongest allies.
It could be a lot worse. [wikipedia.org]
Well, it depends (Score:2, Insightful)
1. It's not just Isreal.
2. It's not just at the White House.
Other than that, this is correct.
Of course, 99.99% of all that happens in both the WH and Mar-a-Lago is insecure. You'd have to be blind not to find it all. All of it.
Pro Tip: don't sell out to the Saudis and Russia if you want to keep secrets.
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Pro Tip: don't sell out to the Saudis and Russia if you want to keep secrets.
When the US government learned about this, they probably outsourced to the Israelis to do this in other countries.
Re:Well, it depends (Score:4, Insightful)
3. It's not a mysterious device. It's a fucking stingray. You know, the ones police all around the country spend $150k on to illegally spy on people.
These ones are just miniaturized ones built with great Israeli tech and installed in novel locations by Mossad.
And they wouldn't be all that useful if our orange goblin would use his secured phone and not call random TV hosts and rich friends and talk high level US policy with them.
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Snicker...all they need do is look at Trump's twitter feed, that'll tell him everything he thinks he knows. No one is the professional security establishment is going to trust that eejit with anything serious.
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It's not just Washington. That's what blew my mind about the Snowden report - people thought anything a chief of state (Merkel in his case) said on an unencrypted wireless broadcasting device wouldn't be intercepted by any interested party including every major intelligence network. I'm sure Russia, China, Germany, Australia, the UK, France, etc. all listen in on Trump's cellphone. Just like I imagine if Prince Harry sends a dick pic the entire intelligence community knows.
That's why we have secure landl
It's unfortunate that ... (Score:2)
... the US does not have the technical chops to follow the data stream and find a landing place -- perhaps in Israel, perhaps not.
We should hire Ukrainians but, you know, "keep it in America" ...
Obviously it's FUD being spread by (Score:1)
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You are "special", aren't you?
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Trump colluded with Russia even though their own majestic Mueller Report makes it clear he didn't.
are you sure? [justsecurity.org]
Why are the devices mysterious? (Score:5, Interesting)
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The Stingray itself is not too mysterious, [wikipedia.org]
especially to law enforcement.
The StingRay is an IMSI-catcher, a controversial cellular phone surveillance device, manufactured by Harris Corporation.[2] Initially developed for the military and intelligence community, the StingRay and similar Harris devices are in widespread use by local and state law enforcement agencies across Canada,[3] the United States,[4][5] and in the United Kingdom.
What seems to be rather mysterious is why a nation such as Israel would be willing to gamble discovery and probable retaliation for information gathering from a longtime ally and supporter... until you remember Jonathon Pollard.
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The description of the spying devices sounded pretty complete to me. What mystery remains that qualifies as mysterious?
What they were spying on.
1. The phones of most people of interest in the Casa Blanka would use encrypted comms across the board so even if you can snoop on them, you are not getting much.
2. A stingray like device can only get phone identities without active network cooperation. For anything beyond that it needs to talk to the core network to get the crypto keys. It will be very interesting (to say the least) if any agency besides the USA own 3 letters has managed to get a backdoor in a USA mobile telco.
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Israel apologized and promised to replace them with non-mysterious devices. "We'll master bland, we promise," the Israeli Minister of Espionage stated.
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Ownership is mysterious? In that papers don't think the proof rises to the level of a statement of fact and instead phrase it as a question.
Trump (Score:1)
Trump seems like an easy mark, a screen door.
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Uh, does he mean Israel doesn't spy on the US now? (Score:1)
One of the few spies our wonderful 3 letter orgs actually caught was an Israeli spy, or do they not remember trading him back?
More BS from our supposed ally (Score:3, Informative)
"We have a directive, I have a directive: No intelligence work in the United States, no spies,"
Right. Unlike all your other spies we keep finding, you have a directive.
It's amazing how this supposed ally keeps backstabbing us and we let them get away with it. From the lies about Dimona, the blatant attack on the U.S. Liberty, the apartheid policies we're supposed to turn a blind eye to, and of course the spying, yet still give these socialists nearly $10 billion in U.S. taxpayer money each year and are supposed to be grateful to them.
Who says money can't buy the best Congress?
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We have a directive, I have a directive: No pornography in the house, no porn."
Statements that are so convincing, we should just accept them as fact!
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Re:More BS from our supposed ally (Score:5, Informative)
The list is wrong.
For one thing, Bernie Sanders is on it. He does not hold dual citizenship. He is the only one I checked, but the list is compromised if it cannot get such a high profile correct.
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfr... [newsmax.com]
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The list is farcical. I decided to check a random name from the list myself and.. he died in 2013.
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In some other reports, they talked to a former NSA spook who rolled his eyes and said, "And you'll never guess what we're doing in Tel Aviv...."
Everyone spies on everyone, and everyone pays their allies for spies on everyone, including their own people. FFS, there's a non-zero chance that the NSA traded Mossad something for this spying.
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You don't think the US should be allies with Israel? What middle eastern country would you prefer?
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Why do the US need to be allied to any of them? It's possible to have a peaceful constructive relationship with strong trade and even provide assistance to defence without needing to be an ally.
But since you ask, Egypt, Jordan, Bahrain and Kuwait are also allies of the US.
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Spying prevents surprises. Surprises cause over-reaction. Grow up.
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"We have a directive, I have a directive: No intelligence work in the United States, no spies,"
Right. Unlike all your other spies we keep finding, you have a directive.
It's amazing how this supposed ally keeps backstabbing us and we let them get away with it. From the lies about Dimona, the blatant attack on the U.S. Liberty, the apartheid policies we're supposed to turn a blind eye to, and of course the spying, yet still give these socialists nearly $10 billion in U.S. taxpayer money each year and are supposed to be grateful to them.
Who says money can't buy the best Congress?
Yes, we know you hate Israel, for such mysterious unfathomable reasons ... yet you love and want to import millions of barbaric savages who literally oppress women and behead people they don't like.
"apartheid policies"? You can vote and hold office in Israel, even if you are one of the barbaric savages. That's a pretty lame "apartheid".
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Look how racist the supporters of Israel are. Huh, Muslim refugees fleeing ISIS are "barbaric savages" in the eyes of the self-proclaimed Chosen People! Don't forget that in 2012, Netanyahu was trying really hard to get us into a war with Iranâ"American blood for Israeli security!
Apartheid refers to the occupied territories. The areas which are controlled by Israel, covered with Israeli settlers, enforced by Israeli weaponry, but where the Muslims don't get to vote.
Stingrays (Score:2)
Stingrays in DC was news in 2018 (Score:4, Insightful)
Who did the journalist source the story from? And how did their sources determine these were from Israel?
The fact is, stingrays have been known to be in the DC area from at least 2018 and before. In the online community stingray use has been tracked and known for longer.
The only reason that this popped up in the news is to associate them with Israel. The timing of this points to some kind of press campaign by someone or another. The only thing that's certain is that they probably aren't Israeli. Why would Israel buy off-the-shelf technology that was traceable back to them?
Re: Stingrays in DC was news in 2018 (Score:2)
It's Bolton's staff obviously. He's a total piece of shit who will only be happy bathing in the ashes of obliterated nations.
He just got fired for insinuating that USSF would sodomize Kim Jun Un to death - publically, while waving a flag and leaking to the press.
This isn't even a little bit beneath him.
Re:Stingrays in DC was news in 2018 (Score:4, Insightful)
Who did the journalist source the story from?
an extremely relevant question, given that "news" is known to be manufactured on-demand for decades, now.
And how did their sources determine these were from Israel?
they probably did a little bit of due diligence, such as checking the label on the box, which probably helpfully said "Made in Israel", in case they were in any doubt about where it came from. good job it wasn't off-the-shelf low-cost-manufactured, otherwise China would have been blamed (again), eh?
but seriously: it's just as easy for any *other* intelligence agency out looking to create mistrust and misinformation to "plant" something like this where it's easy to find. and, unfortunately, just as easy for Israel to *pretend* it was planted (oops...)
ultimately, you just don't know what really happened, and that's exactly how it's going to remain. which tells you everything you need to know about the purpose of spycraft: the purpose of spying, itself, is irrelevant, because, ultimately, human relationships come down to trust. not hate, not power, not control: trust.
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I think you're over simplifying. You can indeed glean a lot about a device from its components, especially if it's custom and few people make the parts.
If you're seeing capacitors and boards mostly made in Israel, either the enemy contracted with them for it, or the state made it. China is a bit harder, since everyone manufactures there.
A second thing is figuring out roughly when they were installed, and trying to figure out who was in the country when. We do keep great records on who comes into the country
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Given the Israeli telecommunications and electronics businesses it wouldn't surprise me to find out they offer some of the best equipment in that space, and why would someone buy cheap shite when superior alternatives exist?
Being "Made in Israel" means jack shit, unless you want to claim that China is responsible for everything everywhere on the planet because everybody has so many things Made in China.
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I call bullshit (Score:2, Troll)
Israel has not spied on the US as a matter of policy for multiple decades. Why would they spy on a friendly president and not do the same to Obama that was a lot more hostile?
Sounds to me like someone wants to give them a bad name without providing any proof. If you have physical evidence, so ahead and release it.
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Really?
Our tech startup was visited - twice - by the Israeli "art students" in 2001.
The second time (after casing the layout the first time) they stole hard drives out of the server/lab space and snuck out the back door.
This happened two weeks after we had a visit from Stephen Bryen, then deputy undersecretary of defense and JINSA director.
Also: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2006/11/25/274400/-
Why not Obama? Because they never stopped.
Karen Kwiatkowski was an eyewitness in NESA, and Lobe reports:
‘
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https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2006/11/25/274400/-#comment_8824286 [dailykos.com]
Re:I call bullshit (Score:4, Insightful)
This sounds like a made up story to me. You have a tech startup? Why were the art students even 'visiting' and why would they want your hard drives? You seriously wouldn't notice some 'visitors' unscrewing hard drives from your computers? I mean it's not like it's very subtle. You have strategic classified info of such importance that nation-states send secret agents to steal it and yet you have no security at all? And why bother with just the hard drives? If they were going to go out the 'back door' (cough-yeah right) they could have just stolen the entire computer. Would be faster. A thief would not usually bother to open a computer case and remove the hard drives. They'd just grab the whole thing and run. Was it a tech startup doing classified military work? Were you building nuclear weapons? Whatever extremelyimportantthing your tech startup was working on I am sure it was of the greatest importance to Israel. I'd suggest that you try to be more regular about taking your meds even when it is hard to remember or at least come up with a more plausible story next time.
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Israel has not spied on the US as a matter of policy for multiple decades.
Of course not. It is called plausible deniability. Why formally admit to spying, when they can just blame subordinates for 'not following rules'?
Why would they spy on a friendly president and not do the same to Obama that was a lot more hostile?
Who is saying that they didn't spy on Obama too? They were only discovered in 2018, they could have been spying on US presidents for years.
Sounds to me like someone wants to give them a bad name without providing any proof. If you have physical evidence, so ahead and release it.
So, physical Stingray units with forensic evidence linking them to Mossad is not enough for you?
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It's kind of like saying Russia hacked the US elections. There is no proof and a good hacker/spy won't leave proof. Any proof left could just as well be planted to throw off the tracks.
It's a lot more plausible that's what happened to Russia, China thought it had more to win with Trump in office. He was pro-business, pro-China and China holds a bunch of our debt that was going rapidly going to be rated junk under a continued Obama-style recovery policy. Routing some traffic through Russia, is easy, planting
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If I was planning on planting espionage technology around Washington, I would makes sure it looked like it was Israeli, Russian or Chinese.
All of these have built-in biases of belief, and even if they automatically assume they belong to someone else than the forensic evidence would suggest, now they're down a fucking rabbit whole wondering who they actually could be.
I guess as a generic American, I'm assuming that the NSA and FBI conduct so much electronic eavesdropping counterintelligence surveillance in D
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Trump's peace plan scares the shit out of them. They don't want it, even if it's wildly in their favour.
They want the status quo, apartheid and slow expansion of settlements. Some want it for reasons of Greater Israel and the determination to never let land in that region occupied by jews fall back into goy hands, most want it because it's simply far more secure than a two state solution.
Re: I call bullshit (Score:2)
The Kushner plan couldn't be more favorable to Israel if Netanyahu had written it himself
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But it's not more favourable than the status quo.
With the status quo they can do pretty much anything they like and it always blows over. With the US having their back in the UN security council, US congress/senate having their back against economic sanctions from the US (to the point of tying state hands as far as BDS is concerned) and WW2 guilt having their back against economic sanctions from the EU.
No plan can compete with the flexibility and security the status quo affords them.
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If you believe in those anti-semitic conspiracy theories, Trump's top adviser, his son-in-law and his own daughter are religious, conservative Jews. Why doesn't Kushner himself not plant listening devices in the Oval Office and talk to the secret cabal about what Trump is doing on a daily basis.
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Please tell me which part of what I said is supposed to be a conspiracy theory.
Jews are not all perfectly aligned with Israeli state interests, especially not US Jews. Regardless of whether they are conservative or secular. In fact ye average evangelical knee jerk Israel supporter in US congress is a more reliable ally than most US Jews.
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because it's simply far more secure than a two state solution.
But how secure will a one state solution when the rest of the world will be up your ass for not adequately treating properly your captive, second class population?
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They've managed just fine up till now. There's always lots of noise, but very little action from the rest of the world.
Really, you're not even trying? (Score:4, Insightful)
These particular devices aside...
Why not?!
That statement sounds like someone bragging that they're stupid and ineffective. Not the rep Israeli intell used to have. If Gerald Bull were around today, he'd say "oh, how the mighty have fallen."
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with the four billion dollar a year in overt aid and billions more covert, they better not be biting the hand that helped create them and sustained them.
Would not be surprised (Score:5, Interesting)
I would not be surprised that these Stingray devices were something that Trump got the Israelis to put there to monitor where all of the White House leaks are coming from. After all, Trump doesn't trust the FBI.
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No, Trump did it on behalf of the Russian FSB in return for them sabotaging Hillary's presidential bid.
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It isn't that Trump mistrusts the FBI, he trusts them a lot. That's why he's scared of them and what they know about him.
Vigorously Not Spying? (Score:1)
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I recall an old article in the Guardian mentioning that Israel was one of the top intelligence threats against the NSA - but they shared a lot of data with them anyway
https://www.theguardian.com/wo... [theguardian.com]
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An Israeli Embassy spokesperson denied that Israel placed the devices and said: "These allegations are absolute nonsense. Israel doesn't conduct espionage operations in the United States, period."
Furthermore, after this story was published, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu denied that Israel was behind the devices. "We have a directive, I have a directive: No intelligence work in the United States, no spies," he said in a gaggle with reporters. "And it's vigorously implemented, without any exception. It [the report] is a complete fabrication, a complete fabrication."
So, what are they paying the fucking Mossad for if they can't be bothered to do routine maintenance-level intelligence in the US? Hrm? Guys.. it would be more believable if you claimed just about anything else. Like you have a secret conspiracy to give fluffy pink unicorns dancing on rainbows to homeless orphans.
Re:Sounds legit... (Score:4, Informative)
with zero history of espionage efforts against us
Not so fast [wikipedia.org], Zionist [globalresearch.ca] shill [theguardian.com]...
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
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They are our allies. We would be just as forgiving if we discovered that Canada or England placed some stingray devices in one of our cities. They are friends. So we basically don't care. You like having Israel as a friend rather than an enemy, right? The only friends we have in the middle east. The only ones who like us and would not cheer if all of our major cities got nuked one day by an Iranian funded terrorist group.
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They are our allies. We would be just as forgiving if we discovered that Canada or England placed some stingray devices in one of our cities. They are friends. So we basically don't care. You like having Israel as a friend rather than an enemy, right? The only friends we have in the middle east. The only ones who like us and would not cheer if all of our major cities got nuked one day by an Iranian funded terrorist group.
Of course, the reason those middle eastern states are not our friends is because Israel IS our friend. So that’s a bit circular...
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Of course, the reason those middle eastern states are not our friends is because Israel IS our friend. So thatâ(TM)s a bit circular...
I think that's an oversimplification. They are anti-Israel mostly because of religious differences or other reasons which are usually not examined too closely. Some kind of racism perhaps. I've anecdotally seen a lot of negative stereotypes about jews in the Muslim world. The Palestinians are angry about a real estate dispute (location location location), but the rest of the middle east has no rational dispute with Israel.
I think at its core it is an Us vs Them kind of thing where you hate a group of people
"Mysterious Spy Devices" (Score:2)
What's so mysterious about IMSI-catchers?
And what the fuck is with all the pro Jewish / anti-Jewish bullshit?
News for bigots, stuff that blathers?
Get it the fuck together guys.
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What's so mysterious about IMSI-catchers?
And what the fuck is with all the pro Jewish / anti-Jewish bullshit?
News for bigots, stuff that blathers?
Get it the fuck together guys.
/blushes
Ok so I just actually read all the comments, at 3+ and there was no racist shit. I'm amazed.
Can I take it back?
Congratulations guys
Looks like fake news (Score:1)
There really has been boat loads of fake news lately.
Unless there is some worthwhile evidence, I see no reason to the story any credibility.
You can say anything came from an anonymous source, i.e. "anonymous sources claim that Donald Trump died ten years ago. The person running the country is Bernie Sanders in a wig. Larry David has been pretending to be Bernie Sanders."
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Ah yes "fake news", can't you just watch Fox News and ignore the real news?
No Mossad intelligence work in the United States (Score:3, Insightful)
Supposing it's true, it still doesn't matter (Score:2)
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Get away with what? You figure the U.S. isn't spying on Israel? Spying reduces the chances of dumb mistakes.
Who to believe? (Score:1)
gaggle? (Score:2)
he said in a gaggle with reporters
I can believe he was in the midst of a gaggle of reporters ... or is "gaggle" some new slang for news conference?
Why would Isral spy on Trump (Score:1)
What's the point, he tells them everything he's going to do anyway.
almost believed him... (Score:2)
Probably Obama's stuff (Score:1)
Why couldn't it have been left over stuff from the Obama administration. We know they were spying on people. We know they did a lot of illegal stuff, including lying to the courts.
Putting that fact out there... who knows what would happen. They can't seem to prosecute anyone, even with very clear evidence.
Ottawa too? (Score:2)
There were such devices discovered in Ottawa (Canada's capital) too, last year. It was in the parliamentary district.
Mounties, CSIS still haven't publicly ID'd people behind electronic cell surveillance in Ottawa [www.cbc.ca].