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Samsung Phone Users Perturbed To Find They Can't Delete Facebook (bloomberg.com) 315

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Nick Winke, a photographer in the Pacific northwest, was perusing internet forums when he came across a complaint that alarmed him: On certain Samsung Electronics Co. smartphones, users aren't allowed to delete the Facebook app. Winke bought his Samsung Galaxy S8, an Android-based device that comes with Facebook's social network already installed, when it was introduced in 2017. He has used the Facebook app to connect with old friends and to share pictures of natural landscapes and his Siamese cat -- but he didn't want to be stuck with it. He tried to remove the program from his phone, but the chatter proved true -- it was undeletable. He found only an option to "disable," and he wasn't sure what that meant.

A Facebook spokesperson said the disabled version of the app acts like it's been deleted, so it doesn't continue collecting data or sending information back to Facebook. But there's rarely communication with the consumer about the process. The Menlo Park, California-based company said whether the app is deletable or not depends on various pre-install deals Facebook has made with phone manufacturers, operating systems and mobile operators around the world over the years, including Samsung. Facebook, the world's largest social network, wouldn't disclose the financial nature of the agreements, but said they're meant to give the consumer "the best" phone experience right after opening the box.

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Samsung Phone Users Perturbed To Find They Can't Delete Facebook

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  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @09:03AM (#57929920)

    The best user experience is by definition that which is what the user wants to do. And this is obviously not it.

    • by grep -v '.*' * ( 780312 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @09:18AM (#57929980)
      True, but like the article said, hit DISABLE not DELETE. You have a complicated device that only looks simple -- if you don't understand something, RTFM (but like where?) until you're comfortable with things.

      The FB app is being kept there for your own safety and convenience -- why if it's *not* there you'd soon be ostracised by your friends. That is, the few you might have left.

      Of course this is all bogus -- it takes up "zero" user space since it's kept in ROM space, and that's of course why it's unable to be deleted. (Unless you root.) But the day after the phone's released it'll need an update that lives in user data space, so all they're doing of course it forcing the app available if you would like to click on it, on purpose or by mistake. Besides, FB pays the vendor/provider so you've saved Big Bucks (entire tenths of pennies!) by having it there.

      That's a really nice phone you've got there, shame if something wereN'T to happen to it.

      And honest, have you talked to users? They want WHAT they want WHEN they want it HOW they want it, and when you give it to them When they want How they wanted it oops they've changed their mind and now want something else.
      • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @10:28AM (#57930298) Homepage Journal

        Of course this is all bogus -- it takes up "zero" user space since it's kept in ROM space,

        No, it is NOT. It is kept in Flash. Part of the flash is desigated as belonging to the system, and it is kept there. But that flash partition is like any other partition, it can be of arbitrary size. And it has to be bigger to accommodate additional apps, and that means there's less space available in the user partition.

      • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @11:00AM (#57930518)

        The friends I have don't have Facebook. That's one of the reasons they are my friends.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @09:29AM (#57930018)

      This is wrong at multiple levels. If it transmits anything back to FB then that is a violation.
      Its stealing space/memory and the OS must be crippled in some way to prevent file by file deletion. Any services running in the background?

      It cant update if it does not know the revision or language settings
      Lets hope the EU stomps on yet another secret agreement where no anti-compeditive documentation has been lodged. FB shareholders should be upset too. Number of disabled images needs to go into the annual report.

    • by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @09:31AM (#57930034) Journal
      If a company mentions "best experience", run like hell from their products. Little known fact: "best experience" is Mandarin for "your data is ours".

      I wish these companies would behave like in the old days, when manufacturing consumer electronics meant just that: creating the best device in a certain price range, and making your money by selling it to consumers on its own merits. Sure, even back then companies tried to create silos, and some built tech into their devices to protect their other interests in the content business, but that's nothing like today. The other day I read an article on LinkedIn about data being the new gold, and boy they weren't kidding: everyone seems to want to get in on the game these days. And if FB has to pay Samsung to make their data harvesting apps preinstalled and indelible, then you can be sure that Samsung do not have your best interests in mind by allowing this.
      • True. Here is my personal experience with a Samsung Galaxy S6.

        I've known social media is a sewer of personal information for a long time now, but kept using Facebook because our families are separated by Continents and my closest direct family members are 4 hours away. We post things on our Facebook walls and accepted that anything posted was public knowledge, even when restricting posts to friends and family. In December, I received a mobile data alert from Verizon that we only had 1 GB left on my data

        • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @01:19PM (#57931540)

          In December, I received a mobile data alert from Verizon that we only had 1 GB left on my data plan. This wasn't surprising since I had been commuting via train to downtown Chicago and had spent about an hour each way on YouTube for a week. What WAS surprising was when I checked what had been using the data, Facebook had used more than DOUBLE the amount of data than ALL OTHER APPS COMBINED, including YouTube. I don't check Facebook during the workday either.

          There's a per-app setting, (under Settings->Apps->Data Usage->[app] -- on Kit Kat anyway) to "Restrict Background Data" [ting.com] that disables background data on mobile networks for that app. The app can then only use mobile networks for data while running in the foreground (ie: you're actively using it) or when connected via WiFi. It's an OS setting so the app can't ignore it.

    • The best user experience is by definition that which is what the user wants to do. And this is obviously not it.

      At least the phone has a headphone jack, so no problem........

      I'll just show myself out...

    • by Tomahawk ( 1343 )

      The best user experience is the one that generates more revenue for the company.
      Unfortunately it has very little to do with the people who are using the products.

  • Ford decided my best driver experience is to only listen to a pop radio station loaded with advertisements and very little music, so they actually didn't even put a tuning knob on. Imagine anyone getting to pre-determine how to use your *phone*, but you.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by rlauzon ( 770025 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @09:13AM (#57929964)
    I've made it clear to my phone vendor that "selling" me a phone where I can't remove the spy-ware is a dealbreaker. If they won't sell me the phone I want without the built-in spy-ware, I will take my business elsewhere.
    • Disabling an app in Android will uninstall the full app downloaded from the play store, revert to just he shell app that ships on the phone, and prevent it from executing.

      If you're worried about spying then maybe you should look into the options that actually exist to control your phone rather than just expecting someone to ship something to suit your specific tastes out of the box.

  • Not really shocking (Score:5, Interesting)

    by LubosD ( 909058 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @09:15AM (#57929974)
    This isn't really shocking. If the app is part of the system image, then the app cannot be normally deleted, because the system image is read-only and only touched during system updates. Disabling the app DOES have the same effect as deleting it, except it doesn't free up any storage space.
    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      At what point did the user just rent the OS, social media apps and hardware?
      What do they actually own when they buy a smartphone?
    • except it doesn't free up any storage space

      That isn't entirely true. The Facebook app installed on the phone is nothing more than a small shell that triggers the actual Facebook app to download from the Playstore when you first log into your google account.

      Disabling the app literally frees up hundreds of MB from your phone for this reason.

    • by Calydor ( 739835 )

      Can you prove that pressing the DISABLE button doesn't just make the overview say 'DISABLED' and the button say 'ENABLE' with no other changes made?

      • by LubosD ( 909058 )
        Yes, disabled apps cannot receive intents, for instance. And if you don't trust the whole OS, then the Facebook app isn't really the major issue...
      • by Tomahawk ( 1343 )

        The source code for Android is available as most of it is open source. So you can download a copy and prove it for yourself.

        https://source.android.com/ [android.com]

        • by _merlin ( 160982 )

          Only if you can prove that the source compiles to the image on your phone. Do any of the handset vendors have reproducible builds so you can verify that what you compile produces the same firmware image they signed? If not, and if there's any closed source "secret source", you can't completely trust it.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • The concept of "system application" on Android is way too much abused. Every simple piece of shit programmed by Samsung is treated as if it were "an indispensable part of the operating system" and therefore irremovable.
  • by FudRucker ( 866063 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @09:21AM (#57929998)
    and i can not delete the Facebook and Facebook App Manager, i can only disable them, i would feel a lot better about my phone if i could completely remove all of that facebook kludge completely, if Samsung does not fix this so i can remove them i wont be buying another Samsung phone when it comes time to getting a new phone, i would research android phones and find one that is simply pure android without any third party apps welded in that can not be removed,
    • i would feel a lot better about my phone if i could completely remove all of that facebook kludge completely

      Why would that make you feel better? The default install is nothing but a shell and doesn't do anything without an update from the play store. By disabling something in Android it is unable to perform any function including updating itself. Why would you feel differently about it not existing vs being so incredibly irrelevant?

      if Samsung does not fix this so i can remove them i wont be buying another Samsung phone

      Thanks for your virtue signalling. Facebook has been an irremovable app since the original Galaxy S came to the market. If you actually cared about this you wouldn't have a Samsung pho

    • by Tomahawk ( 1343 )

      Likely the only phone you'll be able to buy, then, is the Google Pixel. The vast majority of manufacturers install Facebook and other apps as system apps.

      But you can always disable them, and then they can't do anything except use up space on your system partition. And since you can't actually use the system partition yourself, this is actually fine. Disabling an app on Android is as good as deleting it.

      But, yeah, I wish I could delete it too (without having to root my phone).

  • Er? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cascadingstylesheet ( 140919 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @09:22AM (#57930000) Journal

    They've just now discovered preinstalled non-removable apps??

    Yes, they suck. They are also why your phone is a little cheaper (at least theoretically) than it otherwise would be.

    • That's what I was going to comment. I'm pretty sure facebook has been like this on several android phones for years. Along with a lot of other garbage.
      • by kalpol ( 714519 )
        TONS of other garbage, and guess what, there aren't any other options from the major US carriers. You either get a phone loaded with unremovable garbage or you get an international version which works considerably better but has no warranty service.
      • by Tomahawk ( 1343 )

        I seem to remember it came preinstalled on my Sony Xperia X10, and that came out in 2010. And I doubt that was the first phone it, or anything else, was pre-installed on, and undeleteable from.

        So, yeah, nothing new here.

  • Facebook spokesperson said the disabled version of the app acts like it's been deleted

    Its either deleted or its not, disablement is not 'acting' like its deleted.

    It doesn't continue collecting data or sending information back to Facebook. But there's rarely communication with the consumer about the process.

    FFS, so basically Facebook and Samsung are screwing over the end user and not notifying them of anything. It's great how the service owner of said service along with the manufacturer decide that said pre-installed service is best for the end user out of the box. The only way to be 100% sure besides running the likes of strace or packet capture on the phone would be to root it and uninstall anyway. Seriously what is wrong with these

    • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @10:06AM (#57930242)

      disablement is not 'acting' like its deleted.

      Except it is in every way. Prevents the app from running, prevents it from displaying, and prevents any other app from accessing it, the app being part of a read only image and therefore unable to be physically deleted. In addition the app shipped with a phone is a non-functioning shell taking up a few MB. It is not Facebook, and Facebook itself downloads from the Play store the first time you start the phone. Using the disabling function deletes this download and prevents it from re-occuring.

      So yes, it acts in every way like its deleted.

    • by Tomahawk ( 1343 )

      When disabled the OS prevents it from doing anything. It's locked away unable and unallowed to run. It can't do anything, so it's as good as deleted. It's basically just data using up space on your system partition, but that's not an issue as you can't write to the system partition anyway.

      So 'acts as if it's deleted' is a reasonably good description.

      • I disagree either 1 or 0

        Its either deleted or not deleted. Whats next ? Shadow delete ? Pseudo delete ?

        Also reminds me of the marketing speak "speeds up to ...."

        - Cheers

  • by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @09:38AM (#57930070) Journal
    You are not a user, you are the product for both Google and Samsung.

    But, in the case of Samsung, you need to pay for the privilege of being their product.

  • ... as the tech aware people are obsessing about the undeletability of Facebook from Samsung, billions of people are allowing Alexa to listen in, allowing "partners" of Amazon to know exactly how much they can charge you.
  • by Sique ( 173459 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @09:41AM (#57930092) Homepage
    As I am not on Facebook (never was), any enabled Facebook-App means that the phone is sending my data to a company I don't have a contract with. And I don't see that there is any agreement between the company and me signed or otherwise agreed upon, that they are entitled to my data, and they didn't present me with any list of things they are intending to do with my data.
  • Locked AT&T phones do the same thing - we had an LG from AT&T where Facebook can't be removed, just disabled (and I think it may re-enable on reboot but need to doublecheck that).
  • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @09:47AM (#57930118)

    I don't know why we are duping these articles but I'm sure this was posted in 2009 not 2019.

    Like seriously: User suddenly discovers something that has been the same and unchanged for 10 years. Instant outrage!.

    Just disable the app like a normal person and like every Android system has allowed since like version 5. The default "Facebook" install on these phones is a shell app that takes up almost no space. You actually need to download some +100MB from the Playstore for it to even work in the first place.

  • I recently bought an Asus Zenfone 5Q. Today I tried to uninstall Facebook, and I found out the best you can do is uninstall all the updates and disable the app, but it's impossible to fully remove it.

  • Article summarized:

    Faceboot sez, "fuck all you all, you lose, you have no rights, all your bases are belong to us, hahahahahahaha! Fuck you, proles, that's why!"

    Samsung heartily concurs.

  • by Predathar ( 658076 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @10:00AM (#57930204)

    I just checked on my phone, a LG G6 and Facebook came preinstalled... no option to delete, just DISABLE...

  • Facebook, the world's largest social network, wouldn't disclose the financial nature of the agreements, but said they're meant to give the Facebook "the best" data mining opportunity right after opening the box.

  • by OzPeter ( 195038 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @10:03AM (#57930218)

    Given that FB has been accused of making shadow profiles of people not on FB, does deleting the App from a phone really achieve anything?

    No .. I am not saying the outrage is not justified, just that is misdirected.

    http://theconversation.com/sha... [theconversation.com]

  • Sucks but true: This doesn't occur on I-phones. The carriers are taking advantage of the open nature of Android to push apps on to the phone. And because Android is open to the world, they know exactly how to do it. They can't do that with I-phones because it's not open and Apple won't tell them / allow them to do it (at least for now. That might change if revenue keeps dropping).
    • Yeah, on my iPhone I just get constant reminders to give my credit card numbers to ApplePay or buy iCloud storage so it's not third parties trying get my money, it's the phone manufacturer doing it directly. Along with the bullshit "unsupported device" messages that come up now when trying to use a headphone adapter (which wouldn't even be needed if they had kept the jack), their moneygrubbing behavior has caused me to resolve never to give Apple another cent. I won't need another phone for a couple of ye

  • I'm sure this is the case for more phone manufacturers. It's certainly the case for Sony also, at the very least.

    I found on my old S8+ that I couldn't delete the Facebook app, so I just disabled it. Along with some other apps.
    I found the same on my Sony. So again I just disabled it, along with some other apps.

    It's frustrating, though, that these apps are bundled as 'system apps' and thus cannot be uninstalled. I probably wouldn't mind as much if it came preinstalled but I could then remove it. But prev

  • Yeah, it sucks that Samsung won't sell you a phone without it. You can of course buy phones from other companies (Motorola phones generally don't have facebook preinstalled) but if for whatever reason you have to have a Samsung phone, the only effective way to keep facebook from following you is to never use the app. That's what I've done with every Samsung android phone I've had, and it seems to work pretty well.

    It might help somewhat that I don't have a facebook account, but the point is the same.
    • by tsqr ( 808554 )

      Damn. I was getting all pumped up to join in the outrage; then I discovered that I can delete (not just disable) the Facebook app from my Samsung S8+. Maybe it's the carriers that make these deals and not Samsung, and Verizon didn't make the deal? Now I sorta feel left out.

  • Almost any purchased phone these days comes with a bunch of crapware applications that consume what limited space there is on that device. No application should be undeletable. I don't care if it is the manufacturer, service provider, or the Android developers. We should have the permissions necessary to delete any application from any phone/device we purchase, and if not, the right to r00t that device in order to remove it without invalidating the warranty.

    Just like the right to repair, we should have the

  • Disabling the Facebook App is almost as good as deleting it. My LG Stylo 4 is rooted so I can see the process tree and there is no Facebook processes running when the app is disabled. Personally, I think it is anti-consumer to force users to use certain apps and not allow them to be deleted. This could be a nice class action lawsuit against Facebook, the phone manufacturers, and the carriers.
  • I'll respect you in the morning, it's just a cold sore, and it doesn't continue collecting data or sending information back to Facebook.
  • by ledow ( 319597 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @10:52AM (#57930442) Homepage

    "the best" phone experience right after opening the box...

    would include "Do you want me to install Facebook for you? Yes/No" and if I click No then it doesn't do anything at all and leaves no traces or processes around whatsoever.

    Hell, "Would you like me to install a bunch of common apps (e.g. Facebook, Snapchat, Whatsapp, etc.) for you now?" would be absolutely fine - user-friendly, helpful for newbies, and not obstructive to power users.

    If Samsung did that, instead of forcing apps that I will NEVER use on my phone (including all the Samsung apps, not to mention things like Flipboard or whatever it is, Office suites and all kinds), I'd actually like them MORE and recommend them MORE and get them MORE customers and money than they will ever get in goodwill gestures from Facebook etc. for doing so.

    Honestly, it's not your phone Samsung. Feel free to suggest things, but let me even turn off suggestions.

  • "A Facebook spokesperson said the disabled version of the app acts like it's been deleted"
    So then what's the reasoning preventing us from, y'know, ACTUALLY deleting it?

  • Samsung phones have had apps you can't delete for years, including Facebook and other stuff.

  • Okay, I understand why Facebook might pay Samsung to put an app on their phone, but why bake it into the firmware? Facebook is one of those apps which updates every week so the one in the firmware is instantly obsolete wasting space even if someone did want to use that app. What's the point?

    It would be far more sensible to just ask the user during phone setup if they want [list of partner apps] installed and if the user says yes they get queued up for installation. Otherwise a clean phone. And aside from

  • by guacamole ( 24270 ) on Wednesday January 09, 2019 @11:29AM (#57930730)
    My older Samsung devices came preinstalled with Evernote, Netflix, Flipboard, NYTimes, and others. And while it was possible to disable most of these (not completely uninstall though), the Evernote could not be even disabled . Thank you Samsung.

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