Samsung Phone Users Perturbed To Find They Can't Delete Facebook (bloomberg.com) 315
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Nick Winke, a photographer in the Pacific northwest, was perusing internet forums when he came across a complaint that alarmed him: On certain Samsung Electronics Co. smartphones, users aren't allowed to delete the Facebook app. Winke bought his Samsung Galaxy S8, an Android-based device that comes with Facebook's social network already installed, when it was introduced in 2017. He has used the Facebook app to connect with old friends and to share pictures of natural landscapes and his Siamese cat -- but he didn't want to be stuck with it. He tried to remove the program from his phone, but the chatter proved true -- it was undeletable. He found only an option to "disable," and he wasn't sure what that meant.
A Facebook spokesperson said the disabled version of the app acts like it's been deleted, so it doesn't continue collecting data or sending information back to Facebook. But there's rarely communication with the consumer about the process. The Menlo Park, California-based company said whether the app is deletable or not depends on various pre-install deals Facebook has made with phone manufacturers, operating systems and mobile operators around the world over the years, including Samsung. Facebook, the world's largest social network, wouldn't disclose the financial nature of the agreements, but said they're meant to give the consumer "the best" phone experience right after opening the box.
A Facebook spokesperson said the disabled version of the app acts like it's been deleted, so it doesn't continue collecting data or sending information back to Facebook. But there's rarely communication with the consumer about the process. The Menlo Park, California-based company said whether the app is deletable or not depends on various pre-install deals Facebook has made with phone manufacturers, operating systems and mobile operators around the world over the years, including Samsung. Facebook, the world's largest social network, wouldn't disclose the financial nature of the agreements, but said they're meant to give the consumer "the best" phone experience right after opening the box.
Don't sugarcoat the turd (Score:5, Insightful)
The best user experience is by definition that which is what the user wants to do. And this is obviously not it.
Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd (Score:5, Interesting)
The FB app is being kept there for your own safety and convenience -- why if it's *not* there you'd soon be ostracised by your friends. That is, the few you might have left.
Of course this is all bogus -- it takes up "zero" user space since it's kept in ROM space, and that's of course why it's unable to be deleted. (Unless you root.) But the day after the phone's released it'll need an update that lives in user data space, so all they're doing of course it forcing the app available if you would like to click on it, on purpose or by mistake. Besides, FB pays the vendor/provider so you've saved Big Bucks (entire tenths of pennies!) by having it there.
That's a really nice phone you've got there, shame if something wereN'T to happen to it.
And honest, have you talked to users? They want WHAT they want WHEN they want it HOW they want it, and when you give it to them When they want How they wanted it oops they've changed their mind and now want something else.
Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd (Score:5, Informative)
Of course this is all bogus -- it takes up "zero" user space since it's kept in ROM space,
No, it is NOT. It is kept in Flash. Part of the flash is desigated as belonging to the system, and it is kept there. But that flash partition is like any other partition, it can be of arbitrary size. And it has to be bigger to accommodate additional apps, and that means there's less space available in the user partition.
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Right, but it's essentially a read-only region of flash. Even if you update the built-in applications, it will revert back to the original version if you do a system wipe.
I have yet to meet an Android device that uses an inherently ro filesystem, they just mount ro. If you root, you can remount rw and make changes. This may have become more fiddly in recent Android versions, I haven't checked in.
Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd (Score:5, Insightful)
The friends I have don't have Facebook. That's one of the reasons they are my friends.
Interesting play on words.. (Score:5, Interesting)
If it "Acts" like it's been deleted, then that suggests it is actually running and therefor able to, "act".
Is this an unfortunate and awkward statement on their part, or is it a deliberate effort to suggest the app is inert while being truthful about that fact the app is still running?
Don't put anything past the lawyers.
Re:Interesting play on words.. (Score:4, Informative)
The problem is another app - Facebook App Manager or whatever they're calling it now. It's responsible for keeping Facebook's suite of apps updated. You're supposed to be able to disable it [facebook.com], but on some devices it can't be disabled. I disabled the Facebook app on my Motorola phone, but couldn't disable Facebook App Manager. I found it's activity spiking one day, then noticed that the Facebook had been enabled and updated. So I disabled the Facebook app again, only to find it re-enabled and updated again a few days later. I had been being lazy and hadn't rooted this phone yet, but that's what finally got me to put aside the time one evening to root it. Both are gone for good now.
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FYI, it's not just Samsung devices. My Sprint Slate 8" tablets don't let me completely delete Facebook either. I've removed it as far as possible and then disabled it, but even still, somehow sometimes Facebook manages to re-enable and update itself later on from time to time. Very irritating!
Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd (Score:5, Informative)
If you can get a Samsung phone with an unlockable bootloader (Sorry, no Snapdragon CPU phones, the main ones in the US are unlockable), the best thing to do is unlock the bootloader, and install a custom ROM or LineageOS. From there, you don't need to worry.
At the minimum, a rooted OS, so you can have a Linux firewall block all outgoing crap from junkware apps is a must.
Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd (Score:5, Insightful)
This is wrong at multiple levels. If it transmits anything back to FB then that is a violation.
Its stealing space/memory and the OS must be crippled in some way to prevent file by file deletion. Any services running in the background?
It cant update if it does not know the revision or language settings
Lets hope the EU stomps on yet another secret agreement where no anti-compeditive documentation has been lodged. FB shareholders should be upset too. Number of disabled images needs to go into the annual report.
Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd (Score:5, Insightful)
No, the OS isn't "enhanced", it's "bloated" with unnecessary software that may even be a security hazard.
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In some sense, it's the opposite; the OS is, in fact, enhanced. Preinstalled apps are included in the system image.
"Enhancing" the OS is like Microsoft making the Windows help functionality use the IE rendering engine to display help files, making it necessary to have IE installed as part of the operating system. Nothing about Facebook is integrated into Android, such that removing Facebook breaks Android. It's a standalone app that is pre-installed on your device because Samsung made a deal with Facebook.
Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd (Score:5, Insightful)
I wish these companies would behave like in the old days, when manufacturing consumer electronics meant just that: creating the best device in a certain price range, and making your money by selling it to consumers on its own merits. Sure, even back then companies tried to create silos, and some built tech into their devices to protect their other interests in the content business, but that's nothing like today. The other day I read an article on LinkedIn about data being the new gold, and boy they weren't kidding: everyone seems to want to get in on the game these days. And if FB has to pay Samsung to make their data harvesting apps preinstalled and indelible, then you can be sure that Samsung do not have your best interests in mind by allowing this.
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True. Here is my personal experience with a Samsung Galaxy S6.
I've known social media is a sewer of personal information for a long time now, but kept using Facebook because our families are separated by Continents and my closest direct family members are 4 hours away. We post things on our Facebook walls and accepted that anything posted was public knowledge, even when restricting posts to friends and family. In December, I received a mobile data alert from Verizon that we only had 1 GB left on my data
Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd (Score:5, Informative)
In December, I received a mobile data alert from Verizon that we only had 1 GB left on my data plan. This wasn't surprising since I had been commuting via train to downtown Chicago and had spent about an hour each way on YouTube for a week. What WAS surprising was when I checked what had been using the data, Facebook had used more than DOUBLE the amount of data than ALL OTHER APPS COMBINED, including YouTube. I don't check Facebook during the workday either.
There's a per-app setting, (under Settings->Apps->Data Usage->[app] -- on Kit Kat anyway) to "Restrict Background Data" [ting.com] that disables background data on mobile networks for that app. The app can then only use mobile networks for data while running in the foreground (ie: you're actively using it) or when connected via WiFi. It's an OS setting so the app can't ignore it.
Re: Don't sugarcoat the turd (Score:5, Insightful)
You can have a tiny little Facebook app installed with no account.
Wanna bet? [google.com]
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It is funny that people act like you are either agreeing to share and sharing all your data with a company or nothing at all. So predictable. You can have a Facebook account and not share data with Facebook. You can have a tiny little Facebook app installed with no account.
Does Facebook have paid shills now?
Facebook is tracking you even if you don't have an account or an application.
Don't believe me? Try this:
Have a fresh shiny new account with no memberships anywhere.
Install a script blocker. One that you can look up which scripts are being blocked
Go to some popular website
Now take that list and see just who is being blocked. You'll have to look them up. Google has the decency to identify themselves, Facebook hides multiple cryptically named trackers, often severa
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Yes - because anyone that has a different viewpoint must be a paid shill.
And the topic was about the Facebook app. Not sure how your script blocker and going to the web app has anything to do with the discussion.
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Huh? 1777 wasn't all that long ago.
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The best user experience is by definition that which is what the user wants to do. And this is obviously not it.
At least the phone has a headphone jack, so no problem........
I'll just show myself out...
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The best user experience is the one that generates more revenue for the company.
Unfortunately it has very little to do with the people who are using the products.
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The only reason he's still alive is that he's not worth a second of jail time.
One word: (Score:2)
My car's radio is always set to one channel (Score:2)
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why does Ford get fuckall to say in my business in the first place
If I owe them money, fine. If I own something outright, guess who has say? Guess who can modify, mutate, and even destroy it as he pleases?
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Dealbreaker (Score:3)
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Disabling an app in Android will uninstall the full app downloaded from the play store, revert to just he shell app that ships on the phone, and prevent it from executing.
If you're worried about spying then maybe you should look into the options that actually exist to control your phone rather than just expecting someone to ship something to suit your specific tastes out of the box.
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Given that the millennial "i"-gen are quitting Facebook in droves, I think the future majority populous wants a phone without Facebook on it
That doesn't kill Facebook. It might kill the app, but we allow these kinds of large companies to form in the US and thus, they hedge their eventual demise on whatever it was they originally started with. I cannot count the number of folks who sat there giving the middle finger to Facebook only for them to then go to something like Instagram, which is owned by Facebook. Or some people wanting to warn others about the dangers of Facebook and privacy, only to spin up a website with ad revenue sharing with
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It is not very far from what i have done. I do not want my phone to collect data on where i go so i do my shopping and most of my biking without it. So in affect i have zero phone under such circumstances.
And as other posters said, this is no news. My Samsung phone has lots of crud i cannot uninstall. I never had a facebook account but the SSD space wasted is annoying. One gig for microsoft stuff i will never use.
I may buy a flip phone when the need to replace it arises. Or maybe stop using a mobile phone f
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Not really shocking (Score:5, Interesting)
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What do they actually own when they buy a smartphone?
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What do they actually own when they buy a smartphone?
The box
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If I was renting the app I could return it to the store, but I can't even do THAT.
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except it doesn't free up any storage space
That isn't entirely true. The Facebook app installed on the phone is nothing more than a small shell that triggers the actual Facebook app to download from the Playstore when you first log into your google account.
Disabling the app literally frees up hundreds of MB from your phone for this reason.
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Can you prove that pressing the DISABLE button doesn't just make the overview say 'DISABLED' and the button say 'ENABLE' with no other changes made?
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The source code for Android is available as most of it is open source. So you can download a copy and prove it for yourself.
https://source.android.com/ [android.com]
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Only if you can prove that the source compiles to the image on your phone. Do any of the handset vendors have reproducible builds so you can verify that what you compile produces the same firmware image they signed? If not, and if there's any closed source "secret source", you can't completely trust it.
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Clearly, companies do all kinds of modifications to Android, but it's not too hard to check if a disabled app is really disabled.
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Re: Not really shocking (Score:3)
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If you don't trust Samsung's modified Android, then the Facebook app isn't the major concern. And this article is just about the FB app.
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So you assume...hard to say what disabled does to an app thats a read-only part of the system image where the 3rd party has paid for this.
Android is an open platfrom so you *think* you know what its doing, but once it becomes a closed platform like on a Samsung device, assumptions must be made and cannot be validated.
And what do you assume deleting an app where the 3rd party has paid for the app to be on the phone? Just because you *think* the app was deleted, can you truly say it was? If you want to be paranoid (or realistic, all a matter of perspective), it can be applied evenly, not just to a few cases.
yup, i am a galaxy 9+ (Score:3)
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i would feel a lot better about my phone if i could completely remove all of that facebook kludge completely
Why would that make you feel better? The default install is nothing but a shell and doesn't do anything without an update from the play store. By disabling something in Android it is unable to perform any function including updating itself. Why would you feel differently about it not existing vs being so incredibly irrelevant?
if Samsung does not fix this so i can remove them i wont be buying another Samsung phone
Thanks for your virtue signalling. Facebook has been an irremovable app since the original Galaxy S came to the market. If you actually cared about this you wouldn't have a Samsung pho
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Likely the only phone you'll be able to buy, then, is the Google Pixel. The vast majority of manufacturers install Facebook and other apps as system apps.
But you can always disable them, and then they can't do anything except use up space on your system partition. And since you can't actually use the system partition yourself, this is actually fine. Disabling an app on Android is as good as deleting it.
But, yeah, I wish I could delete it too (without having to root my phone).
Er? (Score:5, Insightful)
They've just now discovered preinstalled non-removable apps??
Yes, they suck. They are also why your phone is a little cheaper (at least theoretically) than it otherwise would be.
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I seem to remember it came preinstalled on my Sony Xperia X10, and that came out in 2010. And I doubt that was the first phone it, or anything else, was pre-installed on, and undeleteable from.
So, yeah, nothing new here.
Gotta love the doublespeak (Score:2)
Facebook spokesperson said the disabled version of the app acts like it's been deleted
Its either deleted or its not, disablement is not 'acting' like its deleted.
It doesn't continue collecting data or sending information back to Facebook. But there's rarely communication with the consumer about the process.
FFS, so basically Facebook and Samsung are screwing over the end user and not notifying them of anything. It's great how the service owner of said service along with the manufacturer decide that said pre-installed service is best for the end user out of the box. The only way to be 100% sure besides running the likes of strace or packet capture on the phone would be to root it and uninstall anyway. Seriously what is wrong with these
Re:Gotta love the doublespeak (Score:5, Informative)
disablement is not 'acting' like its deleted.
Except it is in every way. Prevents the app from running, prevents it from displaying, and prevents any other app from accessing it, the app being part of a read only image and therefore unable to be physically deleted. In addition the app shipped with a phone is a non-functioning shell taking up a few MB. It is not Facebook, and Facebook itself downloads from the Play store the first time you start the phone. Using the disabling function deletes this download and prevents it from re-occuring.
So yes, it acts in every way like its deleted.
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When disabled the OS prevents it from doing anything. It's locked away unable and unallowed to run. It can't do anything, so it's as good as deleted. It's basically just data using up space on your system partition, but that's not an issue as you can't write to the system partition anyway.
So 'acts as if it's deleted' is a reasonably good description.
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I disagree either 1 or 0
Its either deleted or not deleted. Whats next ? Shadow delete ? Pseudo delete ?
Also reminds me of the marketing speak "speeds up to ...."
- Cheers
Difference between Google and Samsung. (Score:3)
But, in the case of Samsung, you need to pay for the privilege of being their product.
While we are looking at Samsung ... (Score:2)
I wonder how that plays with Not-Facebook-Members (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not just Samsung, it's the carrier image (Score:2)
Dupe (Score:3)
I don't know why we are duping these articles but I'm sure this was posted in 2009 not 2019.
Like seriously: User suddenly discovers something that has been the same and unchanged for 10 years. Instant outrage!.
Just disable the app like a normal person and like every Android system has allowed since like version 5. The default "Facebook" install on these phones is a shell app that takes up almost no space. You actually need to download some +100MB from the Playstore for it to even work in the first place.
Not just Samsung (Score:2)
I recently bought an Asus Zenfone 5Q. Today I tried to uninstall Facebook, and I found out the best you can do is uninstall all the updates and disable the app, but it's impossible to fully remove it.
article summarized (Score:2)
Article summarized:
Faceboot sez, "fuck all you all, you lose, you have no rights, all your bases are belong to us, hahahahahahaha! Fuck you, proles, that's why!"
Samsung heartily concurs.
Same thing on LG G6 (Score:3)
I just checked on my phone, a LG G6 and Facebook came preinstalled... no option to delete, just DISABLE...
Translation of Facebook comment (Score:2)
Facebook, the world's largest social network, wouldn't disclose the financial nature of the agreements, but said they're meant to give the Facebook "the best" data mining opportunity right after opening the box.
Shadow Profiles make this moot (Score:4, Insightful)
Given that FB has been accused of making shadow profiles of people not on FB, does deleting the App from a phone really achieve anything?
No .. I am not saying the outrage is not justified, just that is misdirected.
http://theconversation.com/sha... [theconversation.com]
Score one for closed source (Score:2)
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Yeah, on my iPhone I just get constant reminders to give my credit card numbers to ApplePay or buy iCloud storage so it's not third parties trying get my money, it's the phone manufacturer doing it directly. Along with the bullshit "unsupported device" messages that come up now when trying to use a headphone adapter (which wouldn't even be needed if they had kept the jack), their moneygrubbing behavior has caused me to resolve never to give Apple another cent. I won't need another phone for a couple of ye
Not just Samsung! (Score:2)
I'm sure this is the case for more phone manufacturers. It's certainly the case for Sony also, at the very least.
I found on my old S8+ that I couldn't delete the Facebook app, so I just disabled it. Along with some other apps.
I found the same on my Sony. So again I just disabled it, along with some other apps.
It's frustrating, though, that these apps are bundled as 'system apps' and thus cannot be uninstalled. I probably wouldn't mind as much if it came preinstalled but I could then remove it. But prev
The best you can do is not log in (Score:2)
It might help somewhat that I don't have a facebook account, but the point is the same.
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Damn. I was getting all pumped up to join in the outrage; then I discovered that I can delete (not just disable) the Facebook app from my Samsung S8+. Maybe it's the carriers that make these deals and not Samsung, and Verizon didn't make the deal? Now I sorta feel left out.
The right to r00t (Score:2)
Almost any purchased phone these days comes with a bunch of crapware applications that consume what limited space there is on that device. No application should be undeletable. I don't care if it is the manufacturer, service provider, or the Android developers. We should have the permissions necessary to delete any application from any phone/device we purchase, and if not, the right to r00t that device in order to remove it without invalidating the warranty.
Just like the right to repair, we should have the
Facebook App (Score:2)
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The Biggest lies (Score:2)
Sigh (Score:3)
"the best" phone experience right after opening the box...
would include "Do you want me to install Facebook for you? Yes/No" and if I click No then it doesn't do anything at all and leaves no traces or processes around whatsoever.
Hell, "Would you like me to install a bunch of common apps (e.g. Facebook, Snapchat, Whatsapp, etc.) for you now?" would be absolutely fine - user-friendly, helpful for newbies, and not obstructive to power users.
If Samsung did that, instead of forcing apps that I will NEVER use on my phone (including all the Samsung apps, not to mention things like Flipboard or whatever it is, Office suites and all kinds), I'd actually like them MORE and recommend them MORE and get them MORE customers and money than they will ever get in goodwill gestures from Facebook etc. for doing so.
Honestly, it's not your phone Samsung. Feel free to suggest things, but let me even turn off suggestions.
So... (Score:2)
"A Facebook spokesperson said the disabled version of the app acts like it's been deleted"
So then what's the reasoning preventing us from, y'know, ACTUALLY deleting it?
This is news? (Score:2)
Samsung phones have had apps you can't delete for years, including Facebook and other stuff.
Never got this (Score:2)
It would be far more sensible to just ask the user during phone setup if they want [list of partner apps] installed and if the user says yes they get queued up for installation. Otherwise a clean phone. And aside from
It's not just facebook (Score:3)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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Unlucky you. I bought a Samsung note4. Came with various crap apps. I stopped & disabled them, and uninstalled their updates in order to save space.
How did you confirm that disabling them stopped them from sharing data?
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I've had an S3 and S8, and neither has re-activated the apps unless I install updates for them via Galaxy Apps. Threre's apparently no way to disable apps unless no updates are installed.
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Exactly. I've been mentioning this very issue since 2015 at least. What the article failed to mention (or maybe my reading skills suck) is that on older phones which hadn't had Facebook embedded, the app will come bundled with a "security update" which installs it in such a way it can't be uninstalled. Now THAT is fucked up.
Bundled shit out-of-the-box? OK, yeah, contracts and whatnot. Forcefully bundling shit as part of a "security update"? That's LOW.
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Exactly. I've been mentioning this very issue since 2015 at least. What the article failed to mention (or maybe my reading skills suck) is that on older phones which hadn't had Facebook embedded, the app will come bundled with a "security update" which installs it in such a way it can't be uninstalled. Now THAT is fucked up. Bundled shit out-of-the-box? OK, yeah, contracts and whatnot. Forcefully bundling shit as part of a "security update"? That's LOW.
Yup, it is pretty low.
I think any solution - if possible, would actually involve a Linux based phone, and an environment that allows the user to have access to tools like wireshark. A repository program environment.
There are some Linux smartphone alternatives, but I'm not certain I'd call any of them ready for prime time. And as much as I'd like that, talk about a niche market. Phones and tablets are not aimed at the power user, but more like the intellectually challenged.
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pm uninstall -k --user 0 <name of package>
Although it's still only faking it; it's just removing it for the default user (user 0) so the stub remains on the phone's system partition - a full uninstall does require that you root the phone. You won't see it in the app list or be prompted for any further S
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Re:Not even close to a new issue (Score:4, Insightful)
My feelings exactly. I have had a Galaxy S6 since it was first released (nearly 4 years ago) and have never been able to delete the Facebook app (or some other apps, for that matter). Not sure why this is somehow news now.
I see. The old" I have seen this, so it must never ever be reported ever again!" The geeks version of "Stay off my Lawn!"
Sorry Anonymous Coward, it's pretty obvious from the posts in this thread that a lot of people didn't know, and it is a good thing for them to know.
In the been there, done that category, this is not unusual on PCs either. A simple program uninstall usually leaves a hellava lot of debris behind. Uninstalling say, Microsoft Office seems just like removing the icons.
Try using a product like Revo, uninstall some program, and select deep scan for leftovers. (don't restart after the program's uninstaller finishes) then look at what the deep scan shows you. Some programs just leave registry items, some pretty much everything.
I do not know if there is a comparable product for phones. There should be.
And since you already know everything, this is not for you. It is for people who might not know yet.
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Same, this is not news, I guess in Canada it is the same as in the US, when you buy a cellphone tied to a provider (especially Bell here) there is a zillions of crapware that you cannot remove/disable except if you root. It has been like that since I know smartphone. How can this be new?!?!?!?
It is also the reason I buy unlocked phones, my latest one, Nokia 6.1, is an Android One phone and no bloatware installed.
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Same, this is not news,
Consider that some people might not know this yet.
I've known that Facebook and some others are pretty cancerous for years. That doesn't mean that I refuse to tell anyone about it because I happen to know about it. Y'all need to understand that there are more people out there than yourselves.
It has been like that since I know smartphone. How can this be new?!?!?!?
I don't recall anyone saying this is something that was implemented yesterday. It is a story about how a person was surprised to find out about the practice. So he's telling people about it. Many people who don't alre
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Nope, it was like this on my original Galaxy S.
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That's interesting... there must be another app installed, in that case. Facebook Messenger, maybe?
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On the Galaxy S3 none of the pre-installed apps could be removed, but on the Galaxy S8 I found that Google Duo, Facebook, Instagram, Flipboard and a number of other pre-installed things actually could be removed. I don't have as many disabled apps as I used to on my S3 - just Chrome, Game Launcher, Gmail, Google Play Store, and YouTube - since my S8 allowed all the other obnoxious things to be uninstalled. I have Telstra Australia firmware, and it's the SM-G950F variant.