Electronics-Recycling Innovator Faces Prison For Extending Computers' Lives 288
schwit1 shares a report from Los Angeles Times: Prosecutors said 33-year-old [Eric Lundgren, an electronic-waste recycling innovator] ripped off Microsoft by manufacturing 28,000 counterfeit discs with the company's Windows operating system on them. He was convicted of conspiracy and copyright infringement, which brought a 15-month prison sentence and a $50,000 fine. In a rare move though, a federal appeals court has granted an emergency stay of the sentence, giving Lundgren another chance to make his argument that the whole thing was a misunderstanding. Lundgren does not deny that he made the discs or that he hoped to sell them. But he says this was no profit-making scheme. By his account, he just wanted to make it easier to extend the usefulness of secondhand computers -- keeping more of them out of the trash.
The case centers on "restore discs," which can be used only on computers that already have the licensed Windows software and can be downloaded free from the computer's manufacturer, in this case Dell. The discs are routinely provided to buyers of new computers to enable them to reinstall their operating systems if the computers' hardware fails or must be wiped clean. But they often are lost by the time used computers find their way to a refurbisher. Lundgren said he thought electronics companies wanted the reuse of computers to be difficult so that people would buy new ones. He thought that producing and selling restore discs to computer refurbishers -- saving them the hassle of downloading the software and burning new discs -- would encourage more secondhand sales. In his view, the new owners were entitled to the software, and this just made it easier. The government, and Microsoft, did not see it that way. Federal prosecutors in Florida obtained a 21-count indictment against Lundgren and his business partner, and Microsoft filed a letter seeking $420,000 in restitution for lost sales. Lundgren claims that the assistant U.S. attorney on the case told him, "Microsoft wants your head on a platter and I'm going to give it to them."
The case centers on "restore discs," which can be used only on computers that already have the licensed Windows software and can be downloaded free from the computer's manufacturer, in this case Dell. The discs are routinely provided to buyers of new computers to enable them to reinstall their operating systems if the computers' hardware fails or must be wiped clean. But they often are lost by the time used computers find their way to a refurbisher. Lundgren said he thought electronics companies wanted the reuse of computers to be difficult so that people would buy new ones. He thought that producing and selling restore discs to computer refurbishers -- saving them the hassle of downloading the software and burning new discs -- would encourage more secondhand sales. In his view, the new owners were entitled to the software, and this just made it easier. The government, and Microsoft, did not see it that way. Federal prosecutors in Florida obtained a 21-count indictment against Lundgren and his business partner, and Microsoft filed a letter seeking $420,000 in restitution for lost sales. Lundgren claims that the assistant U.S. attorney on the case told him, "Microsoft wants your head on a platter and I'm going to give it to them."
appeal (Score:2)
Re:appeal (Score:5, Insightful)
M$ also has an extremely shallow soul. So deep pockets versus a total immorality and willingness to utterly destroy so old dude doing the right thing in slightly the wrong way, makes M$ a pack of cunts who should be driven out of business, simply fucking awful. Never buying another M$ product again, I am doing my part, are you ;D.
Re:appeal (Score:5, Insightful)
M$ also has an extremely shallow soul.
Good. The more anal Microsoft is, the more incentive to rescue these refurbs from the dark side, and install Linux or FreeBSD on them. In the long run, we are not helping poor people by giving them computers with "free" closed source OSes.
Re:appeal (Score:5, Insightful)
M$ also has an extremely shallow soul.
Good. The more anal Microsoft is, the more incentive to rescue these refurbs from the dark side, and install Linux or FreeBSD on them. In the long run, we are not helping poor people by giving them computers with "free" closed source OSes.
This, for the love of FSM. The best "restore" disk is one that restores your freedom.
Too bad Eric Lundgren didn't offer Linux/*BSD in the first place -- he'd have made the world better without breaking the law.
Re: (Score:2)
What makes you think Microsoft wouldn't have still sued for "lost sales"?
Well, mainly the fact that they wouldn't be silly enough.
After all, this lawsuit does not seem to be about merit, as much as about ruining the guy.
I'm not sure Microsoft give a shit about the guy, they just want illegal sales of their software to be stopped.
Re: appeal (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, as I understand the man isn't selling anything. It doesn't qualify as "illegal sales".
Re-read the summary at the top of this article - he produced 28,000 copies of Microsoft software on recovery CDs he hoped to sell to other refurbishers "as a convenience".
The software on the discs was not his to sell or give away - windows recovery discs are not shareware.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Basically, he took old computers from businesses, Dell computers, downloaded and produced Windows Recovery Discs, then took the windows license off those old Dell computers and tried to sell them as Windows copies for below market value.
This was a get rich quick scheme he had, pure and simple. He got caught and now he's doubling-down on the lie he used.
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No he didn't. Read the damn article.
He was NOT taking the license from a computer. The computer remained intact and the license sticker still attached. He just made copies of the recovery discs so that the consumer could reinstall the OS as needed on the erased hard drive.
Re: appeal (Score:2)
Microsoft already offers extremely low-cost copies of Windows 7 for sale to computer refurbishers, this fellow chose not to participate in that program apparently.
Re: Low Cost? (Score:3)
> Why should there be ANY cost attached when the computer already has a legitimate license that has already been paid in full?
In most cases like this, Windows has an enterprise-licensed copy of windows that's bound to both the original computer AND licensee & can't be transferred to another user, EVEN IF it's the original installation with the original hard drive.
If Windows is installed from a literal retail-licensed copy of Windows, you can officially reuse the license on new computers in perpetuity
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A moral goal obtained at the expense of someone else's freedom is hardly moral if that some else was pursuing a compatible moral goal (Ie both in the name of easy access to software) too. Because ultimately its contradictory, and it uses people as merely means to an end an
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Yeah! So what if nobody would buy those computers without Windows; it just makes the computers even more free!
Refurbished computers are typically sold to less digitally needy people; people who can barely use Windows as it is.
Re:appeal (Score:4, Insightful)
Refurbished computers are typically sold to less digitally needy people; people who can barely use Windows as it is.
Those are the people who need one of the desktop Linuxes. They need something that, out of the box, is ready for them to use. These people probably need a good Web browser they don't have to install themselves, and online safety. Windows can't give that to them, but desktop Linux comes this way by default.
Re:appeal (Score:5, Insightful)
Tells you which side of the bread is being buttered here.
Re:appeal (Score:5, Informative)
The appeal court agreed with you, which is why he's currently not in prison.
Read the whole article (Score:5, Informative)
The discs had labels nearly identical to the discs provided by Dell for its computers and had the Windows and Dell logos. "If I had just written 'Eric's Restore Disc' on there, it would have been fine," Lundgren said.
A copy of a Windows disc is clearly not illegal. It is the license which Microsoft sells and which end-users or manufacturers pay for. They ruined this mans life over a trademark logo.
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Years ago the company I worked for ran into something similar. Microsoft's argument was that the licence is only valid for the first owner of the computer, so the second hand buyer needs to purchase a new retail copy of the OS. Thus any Windows discs and licence stickers supplied are "counterfeit" as they give the impression that the machine has a genuine, valid licence.
They like the world "counterfeit" because it makes courts more likely to side with them. It allows them to argue that you are deliberately
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For the most part, I agree with you. Except the "you're entitled to a new copy if the original somehow gets lost or destroyed" parts. It's ridiculous to expect a company to perpetually offer as many copies of a physical thing as you can consume. It gets a little gray-er in the digital product realm, as making "replacements" available has significantly less cost, but there is a cost involved. And again it's ridiculous to expect a company to bare that cost indefinitely, should you happen to need a replacem
But we've changed.... (Score:5, Insightful)
"But we've changed", said Microsoft. "We're different. We're not the same bully we used to be. We're a kinder gentler Microsoft. See, we have Linux stuff in Windows now. Lots of nerdy Linux stuff. How could we be evil with Linux stuff, that automatically makes us good, right?"
It's no wonder the PC market as a whole has taken a beating over phones and tablets. It doesn't matter that most laptops still have Windows when most people for their day-to-day interactions want nothing to do with laptops, and desktops are essentially non-existent outside the corporate environment where they survive only because they are easier to physically chain to a desk. It's for this very reason, where Microsoft sues and arranges charges for its customers, where they have been high-handedly trying to extinguish anything like true innovation for decades that causes people to want to move away from the platform entirely.
It's telling how Microsoft's attempts to break out of the PC market have universally failed. It's like people have put Microsoft in its own jail. We have reluctantly accepted they remain a necessary evil for certain things, but no one will let them into any other market or paradigm because, quite frankly, they have repeatedly demonstrated (and still are) they simply cannot be trusted. Just as the internet moves to heal censorship, the computing world naturally moves to contain zMicrosoft. Their short and medium term strategies that were antagonistic to their consumers just can't create long term goodwill.
It's also interesting that Microsoft appears to have decided that they simply cannot innovate, since their strategy continues to be to threaten and extort their user base to continue to pay them.
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There are multiple choices for free or open source operating systems. The guy could have set up a tidy desktop system with all the web and email features it needs
Of course, he likely would have had to sell his refurbished computers for less money, as a 4 year-old computer without Windows OS is worth less to the average user than one with Windows.
28,000 CDs?!?! (Score:2)
Holy cow, did it ever occur to him, say after creating 10,000 20,000 illegal copies that MAYBE he should ask Microsoft for permission?
How did he make 28K discs? Did he hire a CD production house or some robot arm drive-feeding machine to make them?
Restore disks are NOT illegal the systems had keys (Score:2)
Restore disks are NOT illegal the systems had keys with them just not the RESTORE DISKS.
Re:28,000 CDs?!?! (Score:5)
MAYBE he should ask Microsoft for permission?
To be honest, who would it really occur to that Microsoft would ever GRANT permission. If they are obviously going to say no, why ask?
Now what would occur to me, would absolutely be to not put trademarked logos on the disc. I would have made some leet graphic from the Matrix or the like and put that on the disc. Maybe a photo of Rick Astley on the cover, which would be fitting given the mission of the discs.
Did he hire a CD production house
Well it said he hired someone in China to make them, so yes.
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Thats ridiculous and not at all professional. He downloaded the software from dell, its their software. I would think the opposite, that they would have argued he was representing it as something he did by customizing the graphics, p
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for trying to help people restore computers that they legally acquired and are entitled to use.
Seriously, no one has claimed he was fined and threatened with jail time for "trying to help people restore computers" - he tried to sell 28,000 restore CDs.
Microsoft has a program for selling licensed copies of Windows on refurbished computers.
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for trying to help people restore computers that they legally acquired and are entitled to use.
Seriously, no one has claimed he was fined and threatened with jail time for "trying to help people restore computers" - he tried to sell 28,000 restore CDs.
Microsoft has a program for selling licensed copies of Windows on refurbished computers.
Have you tried to restore a licensed version of Windows on an older PC? You can't just use a retail copy of Windows and enter the license key on the sticker. That won't work. You need the original OEM software from the vendor, which is nearly impossible to obtain. Perhaps your Vista PC's hard drive failed. You already have a valid license. How do you obtain the install media?
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People who never refurbished PCs don't understand this. This is why I have a collection of ISOs of all Windows Versions (XP,Vista,7 - Pro/Home - 32/64bit - different OEMS) that I could get my hands on. I used to be a dumpster diver, you see. That collection has served me well, but it is far from complete. Some manu
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Windows is not a virus.
A virus is well-programmed.
brake the EULA = jail! (Score:2)
brake the EULA = jail!
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brake the EULA = jail!
Whoa-a-a-a Nelly! Put your brakes on them breaks!
what next PRSION for not paying windows core packs (Score:2)
what is next PRISON for not paying windows core packs for each server in your VM farm even if you just need say 3-4 windows VM and the rest is all Linux VM's running under ESXI or LIBVIRT. That is an civil issue over licensing rules not an criminal case. This case seems to be more about BS over licensing rules and not an criminal case like shoplifting.
Say like Accidental Shoplifting and "Accidental" as in you did not fully follow out very complex rules in full.
Re: what next PRSION for not paying windows core p (Score:2)
That is an civil issue over licensing rules not an criminal case.
The two are not mutually exclusive. If you steal my wallet, that's a criminal case because the government has an interest in preventing theft, and it's a civil case because I want you to pay back the money you took. If you get drunk and rear end my car, it's a criminal case because the government has an interest in preventing drunk driving, and it's a civil case because I want you to pay for the damage and my injuries.
Licencing issues cross over into criminal territory when they involve fraud, or when you
Re: (Score:2)
He wanted to sell CDs to other refurbishers that contained Microsoft copyright protected software and had Microsoft logos on the disc.
That's a little different than running unlicensed Windows VMs on a server.
Two crimes. (Score:2)
1) Possible trademark infringement.
2) Thinking that installing Windows on a computer would make it useful.
If the first deserves jail, the second is most likely a death sentence.
Microsoft grows shittier by the day... (Score:5, Insightful)
For those not aware of how this works, it's not an illegal copy. To install Windows on a PC, you need a install disc PLUS a key... the content of those discs can be downloaded online or made with any Windows computer to be used in another. In order for you to install it in a new pc, you need a key that will be validated for that machine alone. The recycled computers had them... Dell desktops comes with a sticked on it with said key. No one getting those DVDs needed a pirated copy, just a install disc, which again, anyone can get without paying a dime.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-u... [microsoft.com]
The restitution for lost sales is just bullshit, even if the dvds had pirated content, which they didn't.
It is fucking shameful that a corporation this big would throw a guy that's trying to do some good in jail without understanding how their own OS works.
Re: (Score:2)
The restitution for lost sales is just bullshit
This part is true.
even if the dvds had pirated content, which they didn't.
This part is not true. Just because something is freely available does not make it free to distribute yourself. It is still protected by copyright. Also, these restore discs were not just vanilla Windows, I'm pretty sure they were manufacturer-specific recovery to get back to OEM state - trial software and all.
Re: (Score:2)
Emphasis mine, and I think that's the problem; it may be one thing if he were just downloading and including the discs that in theory would have come with the machine originally (though Dell's TOS may preclude that) but downloading and selling somebody else's work without permission is clearly not kosher.
What he should publicly do now (Score:4, Interesting)
Tell everyone that by using Linux they can restore an old computer into something useful, Tell them it comes with a word processor, spreadsheet etc all for FREE.
Tell that they come with Linux and Open Office because they can NOT be used any longer with Microsoft products
Make a BIG noise about 28,000 linux boxes being available because MS/Dell won't allow them to used as Windows boxes.
Make it a big public event, "world biggest linux install marathon" or some such even, get volunteers, school kids wanting to learn, make as much fucking noise about it that you can.
Call it a " what you can do without windows" event, see if one of the Linux Magazines will supply 28,000 CDs to give away.
Basically tell Microsoft they can shove themselves from now on
Tell the world that MS wants a line of working/usefull PCS approx 8000 miles long trashed for no good reason
Put the figure into tons of waste
How high the pile would be if they were sacked on top of each other
How much energy will be wasted (ie something like enough energy to power 5,000 homes, or drive a Prius around the world or what ever.
Make them look like polluting wankers
At that point I see the whole problem going away real quick
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meh, just put linux and windows on the install disk and let the user decide. Charge the money for the Linux portion and tell them they can use windows if they want however it's copyright violation if he does it.
Then tell them "This is how Microsoft gets us to destroy a lot of useful computers and buy unnecessary software licences."
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Tell the world that MS wants a line of working/usefull PCS approx 8000 miles long trashed for no good reason
Aproximately how wide are these recycled computers that stretch 8,000 miles?
Quick math: 8,000 miles / 28,000 computers makes each computer about 1/4 mile wide.
What he should do publicly with as much publicity as he can is to install Linux on the old computers.
Installing Linux on older computers isn't news-worthy, no one will care.
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is that Microsoft will just convince the AG that they own Linux and it will end in the same result.
Wait. You can download them? (Score:2)
The case centers on "restore discs," which can be used only on computers that already have the licensed Windows software and can be downloaded free from the computer's manufacturer, in this case Dell.
Where is this link where you can download the Windows restore installation disc for a Dell PC?
Seriously, I have to look at my uncle's Dell PC this weekend and he does not have the restore discs for it. The sticker with the product key is on the machine. I've tried to reinstall the DVD codec drivers for it in the past and could find no place on Dell's site I could download the installer at all.
Re: (Score:2)
If the computer is running Windows 8, 8.1, or Windows 10 and had successfully been activated online at some point in its life, then you can download a Windows 8.1, or Windows 10 ISO directly from Microsoft for free online and reinstall the OS. Windows 8 is no longer available to download but you can install 8.1 on a machine that was running Windows 8. The license is digital and no longer requires entry of any license keys.
Regardless, here is Dell's information on how to obtain a replacement restore disc: ht [dell.com]
Should have given out Linux CDs instead (Score:5, Insightful)
Pretty much as useful and no hassles with copyright. Probably also runs a lot better on old hardware.
I know that for years (Score:2)
Death threat (Score:2)
That's a death threat right there. The assistant U.S. attorney should be sent to prison.
Re:"Extending computers lives" (Score:5, Informative)
He didn't sell the discs. He provided the discs for free with computers that already had an OS license sticker on them. If the computer didn't have a license sticker then he didn't provide a disc.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: "Extending computers lives" (Score:2, Flamebait)
The OEM license only extends to the original manufacturer and its first consumer or another consumer they directly transfer the license to (both parties have to explicitly agree to the transfer and the original owner is seemingly liable for compliance of its next owner) and the hardware has to stay with the software.
If he didn't have a piece of paper showing he got a license for every single piece of hardware, he has no rights to sell the software. You can't even sell an original OEM install disc without th
Still an EULA case not an criminal case (Score:5, Informative)
Still an EULA case not an criminal case
Re: "Extending computers lives" (Score:5, Interesting)
If Microsoft doesn't have a piece of paper with the original purchaser's signature on it, they have no contract.
Re: "Extending computers lives" (Score:2)
That works just fine for them. If there is no contract then you are violating their copyright and they win by default.
Re: "Extending computers lives" (Score:2)
So, you agree that license keys are a violation of copyright law? And that EULAs that stipulate OEM license transfer are legally non-binding?
What kind of crackhead question is this? When did I say anything remotely like that? So you agree that slavery is, like, totally cool?
If you do, then I'd definitely agree with the point about the copies being illegal. Otherwise, every retail box of Windows is illegal until such point as someone actually agrees to the EULA. Ie, retail shops sell illegal copies of Windows. Same with OEMs selling computers with Windows pre-installed and a restore CD.
Again, I have to wonder what kind of drugs you're on. What's illegal about a shop selling licensed copies of an operating system? WTF does the EULA have to do with what a store is or isn't allowed to do?
This jackass isn't accused of violating the EULA; he's accused of making and selling unauthorized reproductions of a copyrighted work. It has absolutely nothing to do wit
Re: "Extending computers lives" (Score:3)
License was paid for by OEM to sell with the computer. The guy has the computer and the license belongs to the machine.
No, he doesn't have the computer. Even if he did, it doesn't give him the right to sell copies of disks.
I don't actually know or care about the law.
Then you have no place in society, other than behind bars.
I use morality.
So did Dahmer. The problem with "morality" is that it's entirely personal.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, not on planet earth, it isn't.
Re: "Extending computers lives" (Score:5, Insightful)
The OEM license only extends to the original manufacturer and its first consumer or another consumer they directly transfer the license to (both parties have to explicitly agree to the transfer and the original owner is seemingly liable for compliance of its next owner) and the hardware has to stay with the software.
This is factually incorrect.
The law says you are wrong, and Microsoft says you are wrong.
A retail license extends to a consumer. An OEM license extends to a computer.
A computer can not grant permission for anything, let alone transferring its license. An OEM license never applies to a human being, so it can't be transferred by one.
Even Microsoft says this:
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/mssmallbiz/2009/10/27/no-oem-microsoft-windows-licenses-cannot-be-transferred-to-another-pc/ [microsoft.com]
As you can see, the OEM Windows license is âoelockedâ to the original PC it comes with and cannot be transferred to any other PC.
The license remains with the computer. The original owner discarded the computer+license. This shop picked up the computer+license. When they resell it, it will still be the computer+license.
The license MUST remain with the computer, the reseller shop can't legally seperate the two if they wanted.
All of these computers have a valid license
What's more, the Windows Restore disks were downloaded by the reseller shop at the time the computer+license was in their possession!
Once the computer+license was sold, the restore disk went along with the computer+license.
There was simply no copyright infringement at all.
Re: "Extending computers lives" (Score:5, Informative)
...the hardware has to stay with the software.
Correct, OEM hardware cannot be sold without software rights. So the hardware was licensed.
This is mostly a trademark violation case. The OS restore disks this man burned had Microsoft and Dell logos. There's may be a small amount of copyright violation here - he burned OS restore images (available for free download from Dell's website), in anticipation of selling to eventual customers: PC refurbishment companies. If he already had an understanding with his customers to sell these disks to them, you could argue he acting an agent for them, in anticipation of custom. If so, this case boils down his violation of Microsoft and Dell trademarks.
The main problem is below:
The discs had labels nearly identical to the discs provided by Dell for its computers and had the Windows and Dell logos. "If I had just written 'Eric's Restore Disc' on there, it would have been fine," Lundgren said.
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If he didn't have a piece of paper showing he got a license for every single piece of hardware
Just what do you think those stickers on the side of PCs are? Decals to make you look cool?
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He didn't sell the discs.
Yes he did. Both TFS and TFA make that clear.
He provided the discs for free ...
No he didn't.
If the computer didn't have a license sticker then he didn't provide a disc.
He claims to have sold the discs to "refurbishers" who may, or may not, have checked for stickers.
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Microsoft has a program for refurbishers [ifixit.com], because everyone's understanding that the OEM software license survives any number of private party sales is wrong.
He literally is competing with a Microsoft program, how can he be surprised that MS went after him?
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Seriously, you have to at least read the posted summary to comment - OK?
Lundgren does not deny that he made the discs or that he hoped to sell them.
He thought that producing and selling restore discs to computer refurbishers -- saving them the hassle of downloading the software and burning new discs -- would encourage more secondhand sales. In his view, the new owners were entitled to the software, and this just made it easier.
So, do you still think he made 28,000 restore CDs to give away?
Illegal Copies (Score:2)
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He was not giving them away, he was selling them.
Re:"Extending computers lives" (Score:5, Interesting)
He gave CDs to make computers that had already had licensed versions of Windows on them able to run Windows again. It's not like those licensed versions of Windows were moved to another computer.
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The OEM sticker licenses can only be used on one computer.
No.. Not in non-3rdworld countries. EULAs are not legally binding and can be ignored. The only hinderance is local copyright, but if you don't copy the restore disk and just use it to move the installation, you have to have a pretty corrupt legal system to be breaking any laws.
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Well he didn't sell the discs, but shipping 28 000 discs from China with Microsoft/Dell logos on them...
so ok jail time for an trademark miss usage? (Score:3)
so ok jail time for an trademark miss usage?
I can see an civil law suit for misusing an logo but not jail/prison. Now what about just an disk the says jay's DELL windows restore disk. I can see dumber computer users saying is not an real disk vs the people who really want clean windows install disks.
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Lundgren does not deny that he made the discs or that he hoped to sell them
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That's why there's a case - your claim that "he illegally copied copyrighted software" isn't cut-and-dry.
Microsoft's argument is that they're being deprived of revenue for something they've already been paid for - how does that make it all right?
The four factors of fair use (Score:5, Interesting)
> If copying software which has already been paid for and is specifically attached to hardware isn't "fair use," what is
Well the discs this guy was selling weren't attached to any particular hardware, and he didn't pay Microsoft for them, but that still leaves your question "what is fair use?"
The four factors considered for fair use are:
transformative use
the nature of the copyrighted work
the amount and substantiality of the portion taken
the effect of the use upon the potential market
Transformative use is the degree to which the user turns one thing into something else. Making a statute from baseball cards would transform them from cards to sculpture. This person did no transformation, just straight duplication.
The nature of the copyrighted work is considered on at least two axis. Non-fiction works are easier to use fairly than more creative, fictional, and especially complete fantasy works. Facts themselves have no copyright protection at all, only the particular expression and arrangement of them can have any protection. A fictional work that takes place in a completely fictional universe is less likely to be fair use because the author created that whole universe - there's probably no reason you *have* to step into their universe.
Also regarding the character of the original work, published works are more available for fair use than unpublished works. I have the right to keep my private writing private, and decide when and how to make it public. Similarly, works that have become a widely recognized part of the culture have less protection. If you wrote a book about American culture in 2018, you might have very good reason to quote CNN, etc.
The amount of the work taken is fairly self-explanatory. It's generally fair to use a five-word quote out of a book. Copying the entire book is not okay. There is a wide range of in-between. Also, what percentage of the new work consists of stuff taken from other people's work? If you write a 20,000-word book and have 300 words of quotes in it, that's probably okay. This guy copied the entirety of MS Windows, and added nothing of his own. That's the opposite of fair use.
The effect of the use upon the potential market - will some people buy the infringing work *instead of* the original work? If you make wall plaques each with a quotes from a bunch of books, nobody is going to buy the wall plaques instead of the books. You haven't hurt the market for the books. This guy was going to be selling Windows discs. Had he not had these 28,000 Windows discs for sale, would some people instead buy from Microsoft?
One could make the argument that some users may already have a Windows license, they effectively already own a copy of Windows, and he was helping them use the licensed copy of Windows they already owned. That may be a cogent argument. Fair use? Not by a long shot.
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No, MS already makes the software available for free download. All he's really providing is a convenience - it's easier for a refurbisher to provide a CD than for an end user to download a few hundred MB of software. His income is limited to how much that convenience is worth.
Oh, and your four factors are not a limit, they are simply a minimum of what must be considered ("the factors to be considered shall i
True, not an exhaustive list. The fifth factor als (Score:2)
It is true those are the four factors that MUST be considered. A court CAN consider other factors. Indeed a judge, and police as well, often consider the universal factor "is he being a bad guy or a good guy?" The letter of the law only goes so far - judges also seek justice, most of the time. (Obviously in plea bargains the judge never hears the case, but that's a different topic entirely.)
Having said that, the factors that MUST be considered all weigh very much against this defendant *for a fair use defe
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With that "transformative" bit, you grossly misrepresented one of the four pillars of fair use. The law actually says that one of the factors that must be considered is the purpose and character of the use. The transformative nature of that use is just one of many possible purposes and characters that copying can involve. By narrowing that pillar to a fraction of its actual size, you're fairly seriously understating the types of use that can constitute fair use.
If the content is truly available for them
Let's read the entire sentence, shall we (Score:2)
> The law actually says that one of the factors that must be considered is the purpose and character of the use.
Let's read exactly what the copyright statute says:
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Purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
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The law says the court must consider if it's commercial (he was selling them for $20) as opposed to nonprofit educational.
> The additional impact of the copyright violation is precisely zero, and thus, the total
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I think the judge didn't quite understand that the software was licensed for use anyways and only a total idiot would have bought a store bought version of windows for it when they could have downloaded the same software from dell or ms themselves
WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT IS THAT THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS THAT CAME ON THEM CAN'T EVEN BE TRANSFERRED TO AN ANOTHER COMPUTER. so after that you would be stuck with two windows licenses for one computer, with one license thats not even transferable(which is bulls
His customers must have all been idiots (Score:2)
>. only a total idiot would have bought
The refurbishers he was selling to had three options:
Legitimate copies from Microsoft for $25
His copies with the Microsoft logo for $20
Download for free from Dell
If they WOULD pay him $20 for the fake, some would have paid $25 for an original Microsoft copy, if he hadn't been selling them for $20.
Why not just download a copy from Dell and burn it to a CD-R? Thanks would be an interesting question to ask the shops who would have bought from him.
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It is true those are the four factors that MUST be considered. A court CAN consider other factors. Indeed a judge, and police as well, often consider the universal factor "is he being a bad guy or a good guy?" The letter of the law only goes so far - judges also seek justice, most of the time. (Obviously in plea bargains the judge never hears the case, but that's a different topic entirely.) ...
Plea bargains are a perversion of justice and should be abolished sooner rather than later, together with other perversions of justice like capital punishment and strict liability offenses.
If a prosecutor has to resort to tactics such as plea bargaining, his case is very weak to say the least and there is 99% chance that the suspect is innocent of the crime he is being accussed of.
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That's a great argument, but it doesn't apply to this case. The guy wasn't 'copying software which has already been paid for,' he was 'selling somebody else's software and keeping the money.'
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Yeah, this is clear-cut copyright infringement, and the headline is a flat out lie. If he was just refurbishing old hardware, no problem. If he was refurbishing old hardware and had made arrangements with Microsoft regarding copies of Windows, that would be fine. If he was refurbishing old hardware and pre-installing Linux or another operating system that allows copies to be handed out for free, still completely fine.
Whatever other details are going on, he got busted for distributing copyrighted software he
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No. He provided backups of software the customer already legally owns a license to, and which can only be used by MS customers with valid licenses. MS just want to sell another license to people that lose their restore disk.
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Perhaps technically - but he was redistributing something that's already freely available. Sounds like he was basically just doing the "locate, download, and burn DVD" step - no new licenses, no breaking of copy protection, just saving people the trouble of finding, downloading and burning the discs themselves.
Of course the bit about "If I had just written 'Eric's Restore Disc' on there, it would have been fine," suggests that perhaps the real crime is trademark infringement, as the discs were made to rese
Windows 10 with a Windows 7/8.x Key issues where (Score:2)
Windows 10 with a Windows 7/8.x Key issues where it still works but MS that was to be temporary. So on paper we have an at BEST an EULA issue with doing that but MS really does not want cut it off for real also there is the issue if the systems did have 10 on them at some before the paper cut off they are OK to reload 10 again on paper.
But Still it's not an criminal issue to do any thing with this.
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Yep. And you can download Win10 from MS today, and install it on a PC with a Win7/8 license, so long as you either use assistive technologies or are at least willing to fraudulently claim to. Nothing he's doing changes things in the slightest - except that you don't have to download the several gig .iso file and burn it yourself.
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Sounds like he was basically just doing the "locate, download, and burn DVD" step - no new licenses, no breaking of copy protection, just saving people the trouble of finding, downloading and burning the discs themselves.
Except, you forgot to add that he tried to sell them. He wasn't burning and selling CDs of shareware as was so popular in the 1990s, he was burning and selling a disc full of MS software.
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Useless MS software though, which you can download free from Microsoft, since MS has shifted everything to usage licenses with online activation. If you don't already have a license, the software is useless. He was selling the convenience of not having to download and burn it yourself.
Of course, copyright still applies, so useless or not, he would need a license to copy it legally.
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Technically a temporary violation has the copy was waiting for a licensed computer, until it reached a licensed computer a copyright violation, clearly a civil matter not a criminal matter once it was investigated. That the filthy animal prosecutor choose to serve the corrupt entity M$ to destroy some old dude for a technicality is disgusting, why not just kill him you POSs, fucking disgusting.
that ended with vista (some iso are ver locked) ea (Score:2)
that ended with vista (some iso are ver locked) easy to mod them to all. After vista they went all in one.
MS does not make XP ISO's. Vista have to hunt for (Score:2)
MS does not make XP ISO's. Vista have to hunt for an link. 7 on the MS site just punch in your key to get it. (needed to hunt for it the past for it) 8 and newer tool to download ISO no key needed for download load.
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Well, that is still copyright infringement though. Just because MS is giving things away for free, doesn't mean that you can do so - it's still protected by copyright law, which means you need an explicit license to duplicate it.
Perhaps you could have an argument if you individually downloaded every copy before burning. Horribly wasteful of course, but then you could argue that Microsoft was the one distributing copies, and you were only redistributing software you had acquired legally. The fact that the
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All he did was burn it on a dvd and hand it out as a freebie.
No, he wanted to sell the CDs, not give them away as a "freebie."
Re:Am I fucking missing something here? (Score:4, Insightful)
So let's say you know someone who is recycling used computers with valid OEM licenses and following this exact process and you need the Windows OEM install media to restore windows on the machine. Now, you can go to Dell's web site and download and burn one for free, or you have a friend who has done that already and he gives you a copy of it for you to use.
Should your friend in that situation then go to jail for giving you a copy to use to restore the computer with a valid license with? 'Cause that's what this case is about.
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Should your friend in that situation then go to jail for giving you a copy to use to restore the computer with a valid license with? 'Cause that's what this case is about.
Except, like so many others on this thread, you ignore the fact that he admitted he wanted to sell the discs. Sell - not give away.
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That's the thing. This wasn't 'I've got a DVD-R drive, I'll download and burn you the disc you need for reinstalling it.' It wasn't even 'I'll charge you 20 cents for the cost of a blank DVD-R.' Nor was it 'Every time I dumpster dive a computer, I burn the appropriate cd, scrawl 'recovery CD downloaded from [oem]' on it, and tape it to the chassis.'
No, it was 'I'll commission a fucking factory in China to crank out a production run, with somebody else's trademarked logos, and sell them for a profit.' De
windows 8 and newer auto load bios keys and reuse (Score:2)
windows 8 and newer auto load bios keys and reuse old keys from the same hardware after an os reload. ALSO ALL 7 and 8.X systems get free windows 10
Right to repair need to say restore files free (Score:3)
Right to repair needs to say that restore files are free and that an EULA / DMCA can not be used to stop people from hosting files and or selling EPROM's at CHIP cost + shipping.
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First sale doctrine applies to the one original (and all its backups) in one transaction. He was selling (planning to sell) these discs to other refurbishers, directly profiting from more than just transferring a license.
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all he did for all intensive purposes was make a backup of a CD that was locked to the systems he clearly had a license for
No. He didn't have 28,000 computers on-hand that needed restore CDs, if he did, you MIGHT have a good argument, but he hired a Chinese CD duplication house to burn 28,000 CDs so that he could sell them to other refurbishers.
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The problem, I think, is the selling of these disks. If he had just given them away, this may have been gray area or even legal.