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Crime Microsoft Operating Systems Software Hardware Technology

Electronics-Recycling Innovator Faces Prison For Extending Computers' Lives 288

schwit1 shares a report from Los Angeles Times: Prosecutors said 33-year-old [Eric Lundgren, an electronic-waste recycling innovator] ripped off Microsoft by manufacturing 28,000 counterfeit discs with the company's Windows operating system on them. He was convicted of conspiracy and copyright infringement, which brought a 15-month prison sentence and a $50,000 fine. In a rare move though, a federal appeals court has granted an emergency stay of the sentence, giving Lundgren another chance to make his argument that the whole thing was a misunderstanding. Lundgren does not deny that he made the discs or that he hoped to sell them. But he says this was no profit-making scheme. By his account, he just wanted to make it easier to extend the usefulness of secondhand computers -- keeping more of them out of the trash.

The case centers on "restore discs," which can be used only on computers that already have the licensed Windows software and can be downloaded free from the computer's manufacturer, in this case Dell. The discs are routinely provided to buyers of new computers to enable them to reinstall their operating systems if the computers' hardware fails or must be wiped clean. But they often are lost by the time used computers find their way to a refurbisher. Lundgren said he thought electronics companies wanted the reuse of computers to be difficult so that people would buy new ones. He thought that producing and selling restore discs to computer refurbishers -- saving them the hassle of downloading the software and burning new discs -- would encourage more secondhand sales. In his view, the new owners were entitled to the software, and this just made it easier. The government, and Microsoft, did not see it that way. Federal prosecutors in Florida obtained a 21-count indictment against Lundgren and his business partner, and Microsoft filed a letter seeking $420,000 in restitution for lost sales. Lundgren claims that the assistant U.S. attorney on the case told him, "Microsoft wants your head on a platter and I'm going to give it to them."
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Electronics-Recycling Innovator Faces Prison For Extending Computers' Lives

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  • MS has deep pockets
    • Re:appeal (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rtb61 ( 674572 ) on Thursday February 15, 2018 @10:46PM (#56132942) Homepage

      M$ also has an extremely shallow soul. So deep pockets versus a total immorality and willingness to utterly destroy so old dude doing the right thing in slightly the wrong way, makes M$ a pack of cunts who should be driven out of business, simply fucking awful. Never buying another M$ product again, I am doing my part, are you ;D.

      • Re:appeal (Score:5, Insightful)

        by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Thursday February 15, 2018 @11:04PM (#56133028)

        M$ also has an extremely shallow soul.

        Good. The more anal Microsoft is, the more incentive to rescue these refurbs from the dark side, and install Linux or FreeBSD on them. In the long run, we are not helping poor people by giving them computers with "free" closed source OSes.

        • Re:appeal (Score:5, Insightful)

          by ClickOnThis ( 137803 ) on Friday February 16, 2018 @12:33AM (#56133316) Journal

          M$ also has an extremely shallow soul.

          Good. The more anal Microsoft is, the more incentive to rescue these refurbs from the dark side, and install Linux or FreeBSD on them. In the long run, we are not helping poor people by giving them computers with "free" closed source OSes.

          This, for the love of FSM. The best "restore" disk is one that restores your freedom.

          Too bad Eric Lundgren didn't offer Linux/*BSD in the first place -- he'd have made the world better without breaking the law.

        • Good. The more anal Microsoft is, the more incentive to rescue these refurbs from the dark side, and install Linux or FreeBSD on them. In the long run, we are not helping poor people by giving them computers with "free" closed source OSes.

          A moral goal obtained at the expense of someone else's freedom is hardly moral if that some else was pursuing a compatible moral goal (Ie both in the name of easy access to software) too. Because ultimately its contradictory, and it uses people as merely means to an end an

        • by mwvdlee ( 775178 )

          Yeah! So what if nobody would buy those computers without Windows; it just makes the computers even more free!

          Refurbished computers are typically sold to less digitally needy people; people who can barely use Windows as it is.

          • Re:appeal (Score:4, Insightful)

            by StormReaver ( 59959 ) on Friday February 16, 2018 @09:30AM (#56134718)

            Refurbished computers are typically sold to less digitally needy people; people who can barely use Windows as it is.

            Those are the people who need one of the desktop Linuxes. They need something that, out of the box, is ready for them to use. These people probably need a good Web browser they don't have to install themselves, and online safety. Windows can't give that to them, but desktop Linux comes this way by default.

    • Re:appeal (Score:5, Insightful)

      by tonywong ( 96839 ) on Friday February 16, 2018 @12:54AM (#56133358) Homepage
      Why the hell does he have to remain jailed pending appeal? He is not a flight risk? The judge and the prosecutor are just being dicks in the interim.

      Tells you which side of the bread is being buttered here.
  • by thechemic ( 1329333 ) on Thursday February 15, 2018 @09:23PM (#56132510)
    It's sincerely a sad story.

    The discs had labels nearly identical to the discs provided by Dell for its computers and had the Windows and Dell logos. "If I had just written 'Eric's Restore Disc' on there, it would have been fine," Lundgren said.

    A copy of a Windows disc is clearly not illegal. It is the license which Microsoft sells and which end-users or manufacturers pay for. They ruined this mans life over a trademark logo.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Years ago the company I worked for ran into something similar. Microsoft's argument was that the licence is only valid for the first owner of the computer, so the second hand buyer needs to purchase a new retail copy of the OS. Thus any Windows discs and licence stickers supplied are "counterfeit" as they give the impression that the machine has a genuine, valid licence.

      They like the world "counterfeit" because it makes courts more likely to side with them. It allows them to argue that you are deliberately

  • by Excelcia ( 906188 ) <slashdot@excelcia.ca> on Thursday February 15, 2018 @09:25PM (#56132520) Homepage Journal

    "But we've changed", said Microsoft. "We're different. We're not the same bully we used to be. We're a kinder gentler Microsoft. See, we have Linux stuff in Windows now. Lots of nerdy Linux stuff. How could we be evil with Linux stuff, that automatically makes us good, right?"

    It's no wonder the PC market as a whole has taken a beating over phones and tablets. It doesn't matter that most laptops still have Windows when most people for their day-to-day interactions want nothing to do with laptops, and desktops are essentially non-existent outside the corporate environment where they survive only because they are easier to physically chain to a desk. It's for this very reason, where Microsoft sues and arranges charges for its customers, where they have been high-handedly trying to extinguish anything like true innovation for decades that causes people to want to move away from the platform entirely.

    It's telling how Microsoft's attempts to break out of the PC market have universally failed. It's like people have put Microsoft in its own jail. We have reluctantly accepted they remain a necessary evil for certain things, but no one will let them into any other market or paradigm because, quite frankly, they have repeatedly demonstrated (and still are) they simply cannot be trusted. Just as the internet moves to heal censorship, the computing world naturally moves to contain zMicrosoft. Their short and medium term strategies that were antagonistic to their consumers just can't create long term goodwill.

    It's also interesting that Microsoft appears to have decided that they simply cannot innovate, since their strategy continues to be to threaten and extort their user base to continue to pay them.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Holy cow, did it ever occur to him, say after creating 10,000 20,000 illegal copies that MAYBE he should ask Microsoft for permission?

    How did he make 28K discs? Did he hire a CD production house or some robot arm drive-feeding machine to make them?

    • Restore disks are NOT illegal the systems had keys with them just not the RESTORE DISKS.

    • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Thursday February 15, 2018 @10:05PM (#56132744)

      MAYBE he should ask Microsoft for permission?

      To be honest, who would it really occur to that Microsoft would ever GRANT permission. If they are obviously going to say no, why ask?

      Now what would occur to me, would absolutely be to not put trademarked logos on the disc. I would have made some leet graphic from the Matrix or the like and put that on the disc. Maybe a photo of Rick Astley on the cover, which would be fitting given the mission of the discs.

      Did he hire a CD production house

      Well it said he hired someone in China to make them, so yes.

      • "Now what would occur to me, would absolutely be to not put trademarked logos on the disc. I would have made some leet graphic from the Matrix or the like and put that on the disc. Maybe a photo of Rick Astley on the cover, which would be fitting given the mission of the discs."

        Thats ridiculous and not at all professional. He downloaded the software from dell, its their software. I would think the opposite, that they would have argued he was representing it as something he did by customizing the graphics, p

  • brake the EULA = jail!

  • what is next PRISON for not paying windows core packs for each server in your VM farm even if you just need say 3-4 windows VM and the rest is all Linux VM's running under ESXI or LIBVIRT. That is an civil issue over licensing rules not an criminal case. This case seems to be more about BS over licensing rules and not an criminal case like shoplifting.

    Say like Accidental Shoplifting and "Accidental" as in you did not fully follow out very complex rules in full.

    • That is an civil issue over licensing rules not an criminal case.

      The two are not mutually exclusive. If you steal my wallet, that's a criminal case because the government has an interest in preventing theft, and it's a civil case because I want you to pay back the money you took. If you get drunk and rear end my car, it's a criminal case because the government has an interest in preventing drunk driving, and it's a civil case because I want you to pay for the damage and my injuries.

      Licencing issues cross over into criminal territory when they involve fraud, or when you

    • by kenh ( 9056 )

      He wanted to sell CDs to other refurbishers that contained Microsoft copyright protected software and had Microsoft logos on the disc.

      That's a little different than running unlicensed Windows VMs on a server.

  • This man should be charged with two crimes:

    1) Possible trademark infringement.
    2) Thinking that installing Windows on a computer would make it useful.

    If the first deserves jail, the second is most likely a death sentence.
  • by XSportSeeker ( 4641865 ) on Thursday February 15, 2018 @10:34PM (#56132872)

    For those not aware of how this works, it's not an illegal copy. To install Windows on a PC, you need a install disc PLUS a key... the content of those discs can be downloaded online or made with any Windows computer to be used in another. In order for you to install it in a new pc, you need a key that will be validated for that machine alone. The recycled computers had them... Dell desktops comes with a sticked on it with said key. No one getting those DVDs needed a pirated copy, just a install disc, which again, anyone can get without paying a dime.
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-u... [microsoft.com]

    The restitution for lost sales is just bullshit, even if the dvds had pirated content, which they didn't.
    It is fucking shameful that a corporation this big would throw a guy that's trying to do some good in jail without understanding how their own OS works.

    • The restitution for lost sales is just bullshit

      This part is true.

      even if the dvds had pirated content, which they didn't.

      This part is not true. Just because something is freely available does not make it free to distribute yourself. It is still protected by copyright. Also, these restore discs were not just vanilla Windows, I'm pretty sure they were manufacturer-specific recovery to get back to OEM state - trial software and all.

    • He thought that producing and selling restore discs to computer refurbishers

      Emphasis mine, and I think that's the problem; it may be one thing if he were just downloading and including the discs that in theory would have come with the machine originally (though Dell's TOS may preclude that) but downloading and selling somebody else's work without permission is clearly not kosher.

  • by sit1963nz ( 934837 ) on Thursday February 15, 2018 @10:44PM (#56132928)
    What he should do publicly with as much publicity as he can is to install Linux on the old computers.

    Tell everyone that by using Linux they can restore an old computer into something useful, Tell them it comes with a word processor, spreadsheet etc all for FREE.

    Tell that they come with Linux and Open Office because they can NOT be used any longer with Microsoft products

    Make a BIG noise about 28,000 linux boxes being available because MS/Dell won't allow them to used as Windows boxes.
    Make it a big public event, "world biggest linux install marathon" or some such even, get volunteers, school kids wanting to learn, make as much fucking noise about it that you can.

    Call it a " what you can do without windows" event, see if one of the Linux Magazines will supply 28,000 CDs to give away.

    Basically tell Microsoft they can shove themselves from now on

    Tell the world that MS wants a line of working/usefull PCS approx 8000 miles long trashed for no good reason
    Put the figure into tons of waste
    How high the pile would be if they were sacked on top of each other
    How much energy will be wasted (ie something like enough energy to power 5,000 homes, or drive a Prius around the world or what ever.
    Make them look like polluting wankers

    At that point I see the whole problem going away real quick
    • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

      meh, just put linux and windows on the install disk and let the user decide. Charge the money for the Linux portion and tell them they can use windows if they want however it's copyright violation if he does it.

      Then tell them "This is how Microsoft gets us to destroy a lot of useful computers and buy unnecessary software licences."

    • by kenh ( 9056 )

      Tell the world that MS wants a line of working/usefull PCS approx 8000 miles long trashed for no good reason

      Aproximately how wide are these recycled computers that stretch 8,000 miles?

      Quick math: 8,000 miles / 28,000 computers makes each computer about 1/4 mile wide.

      What he should do publicly with as much publicity as he can is to install Linux on the old computers.

      Installing Linux on older computers isn't news-worthy, no one will care.

    • The problem is that Microsoft will just convince the AG that they own Linux and it will end in the same result.

  • The case centers on "restore discs," which can be used only on computers that already have the licensed Windows software and can be downloaded free from the computer's manufacturer, in this case Dell.

    Where is this link where you can download the Windows restore installation disc for a Dell PC?
    Seriously, I have to look at my uncle's Dell PC this weekend and he does not have the restore discs for it. The sticker with the product key is on the machine. I've tried to reinstall the DVD codec drivers for it in the past and could find no place on Dell's site I could download the installer at all.

    • If the computer is running Windows 8, 8.1, or Windows 10 and had successfully been activated online at some point in its life, then you can download a Windows 8.1, or Windows 10 ISO directly from Microsoft for free online and reinstall the OS. Windows 8 is no longer available to download but you can install 8.1 on a machine that was running Windows 8. The license is digital and no longer requires entry of any license keys.

      Regardless, here is Dell's information on how to obtain a replacement restore disc: ht [dell.com]

  • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Friday February 16, 2018 @12:31AM (#56133310)

    Pretty much as useful and no hassles with copyright. Probably also runs a lot better on old hardware.

  • Dell used to include an install partition on the disk to re-install the O/S. Where Mr. Lundgren screwed up was when he was selling those discs. That's the fraud part.
  • Lundgren claims that the assistant U.S. attorney on the case told him, "Microsoft wants your head on a platter and I'm going to give it to them."

    That's a death threat right there. The assistant U.S. attorney should be sent to prison.

"The pathology is to want control, not that you ever get it, because of course you never do." -- Gregory Bateson

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