Popular Torrent Site ExtraTorrent Permanently Shuts Down (torrentfreak.com) 169
ExtraTorrent, the world's second largest torrent index, on Wednesday said it is permanently shutting its doors. The site, which launched in 2006, had steadily climbed the ranks in the piracy world to become the second most popular torrent site, observing millions of daily views. TorrentFreak adds: "ExtraTorrent with all mirrors goes offline.. We permanently erase all data. Stay away from fake ExtraTorrent websites and clones. Thx to all ET supporters and torrent community. ET was a place to beâ¦." TorrentFreak reached out to ExtraTorrent operator SaM who confirmed that this is indeed the end of the road for the site. "It's time we say goodbye," he said, without providing more details. [...] ExtraTorrent is the latest in a series of BitTorrent giants to fall in recent months. Previously, sites including KickassTorrents, Torrentz.eu, TorrentHound and What.cd went offline.
Someone could start a new one. (Score:5, Interesting)
Nyaa.se was shut down voluntarily as well at the beginning of the month, but a group from the fandom and people close to the old site started a replacement that will eventually be just like the old site for all intents and purposes.
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Re:Someone could start a new one. (Score:5, Informative)
I'd add that a quick look at the fansubs sites I follow shows a fair bit of fragmentation at the moment. AniDex [anidex.info] and minglong [minglong.org] seem the most popular choices right now, with (new) Nyaa [nyaa.si] a distant third and Nyaa Pantsu [pantsu.cat] nobody's first choice so far. Anything could change, but that's what I'm seeing so far.
Re:Someone could start a new one. (Score:4, Interesting)
Nyaa was/is a favourite site for foreign-language (JP and CN mainly) drama, anime and manga torrents. I don't think it or its replacement carries a lot of Western stuff.
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nobody's first choice so far
Except for japan, according to alexa stats
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Nyaa.pantsu.cat is a wannabe. Its only claims to fame was a supposed backup of the old Nyaa database, it's days are numbered because Nyaa.si is the site groups are actually signing up on.
What will I do now? (Score:4, Funny)
How am I going to download all that open-source software, that I used to download with BitTorrent?
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Ironically i depend on bittorrent for my Ubuntu iso's and new copys of Flightgear which are almost 2 Gb now.
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Dude I had no idea about flightgear! I play an old version of MS Flight Sim. I'll definitely check that out,
Flightgear has been around a long time. It's a great sim. I just get bored quickly without being able to blow shit up so I start playing IL2 1946 or CoD instead which gives me a realistic sim and a the fun of strafing Russians.
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i depend on bittorrent for my Ubuntu iso'
As do I, but I'm not going to go to a pirate tracker to find it. I'd rather be sure to get a magnet/.torrent from Ubuntu and know that it's not tampered with.
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couldn't you just verify the checksum? Heck, signatures should be available too...
It doesn't really matter where you download it from...
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Yeah, sure I could. And when I get to the page with the checksums listed, there's a link to the .torrent / magnet right there on the same page. Searching a tracker is just duplicating my efforts.
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What if your Ubuntu site had been hacked? Verify checksums from different sources. I also use signatures when available, combined with checksums. ABC baby you and me!
Example:
$ sha256sum jdk-8u121-linux-i586.tar.gz
f7d6cf1468c5e71ff097bec0189caccdd8e709a2a88a2c9849ad6200c0f33d4c jdk-8u121-linux-i586.tar.gz
Now just google for:
f7d6cf1468c5e71ff097bec0189caccdd8e709a2a88a2c9849ad6200c0f33d4c
You get the idea.
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Yeah, you could also Google the checksum you find on the Ubuntu web site and verify it before wasting the time and bandwidth to download.
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Hint: You have to do the checksum anyway after you have spent the bandwidth. There is no way to trust a server in advance.
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If the checksum matches, then you can download and verify. If a bad actor wanted to hack the Ubuntu web site, they would change the checksum on the page to match the bad download - which wouldn't match posted checksums elsewhere.
None of these arguments have told me why a torrent tracker is more trustworthy or more convenient than the source - which was the entire point of the thread.
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If the checksum matches, then you can download and verify.
If the checksum matches what? Since if I understand you correctly, you haven't downloaded anything yet. The only way to see if a checksum matches is to first download the content.
Most of the time, checksum webpages are not even hosted on the same server as the download links which seems logical to me.
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Also, don't forget digital signatures. Use them when available but double-check with checksums. With proper chain of trust, checksums are just as good as digital signature although. Signing is just signing a checksum with PKA/RSA logic which constitute a way to establish trust in the checksum, that is about it.
But then again, you have to download the content first ;-(
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None of these arguments have told me why a torrent tracker is more trustworthy or more convenient than the source - which was the entire point of the thread.
Don't trust anybody, period.
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Hello again,
Here is a nice youtube video that covers somehow the matter of trust webs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
more formally:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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PKI
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Just like always [slackware.com]. You gotta problem?
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Just like always [slackware.com]. You gotta problem?
I don't, but this guy [slashdot.org] — and all of the adoring moderators of his — might:
That's what I tried to do today, and what did I get?..
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That's what I tried to do today, and what did I get?
I don't know. I answered your question. What were you expecting?
Re:What will I do now? (Score:5, Funny)
We pirates must unite (Score:5, Insightful)
Also we need to stop using the word 'pirate' i think we lost the intellectual debate the moment we adopted the term. Its 'file sharing". I bet you if i asked ten random people on the street if they think piracy is wrong, most would say yes. But if i asked 10 random people if 'file sharing' was wrong and should be illegal, they would say 'No! you should be able to share files"
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File sharing is fine. Piracy denotes *illegal* file sharing. That's what torrent sites are for. If you ask people if they thought "illegally sharing files" was wrong, then they would mostly not say "no!"
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Piracy denotes *illegal* file sharing.
Which accounts for the majority of torrent use. To say different is to lie to yourself.
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It accounts for a small minority of my torrent use, and my actions are the only ones I'm responsible for.
Re:We pirates must unite (Score:4, Interesting)
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but i don't think sharing information over the internet should ever be a crime, in any form whatsoever
No secrets? No privacy? That's a bit broad. I prefer the way that patents work.
You can choose to keep something secret, or you can patent it. Then everyone gets to see it, and in exchange you get certain rights for royalties from commercial use.
There is no need to ban sharing any more than sharing books is banned. It just creates an un-policable crime and destroys respect for rule of law.
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i don't think it is EVER a crime to share ANY information.
- how about your health data, purchasing habits, passwords to your online accounts, banking data? Just asking if you would keep that opinion if someone 'shared' all that on your behalf without consulting you first.
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But if someone got hold of that information by 'hacking' into my computer, bypassing my security measures, then that is 'digital tresspassing' they should be arrested for the digital equivalent of cracking the lock on my front door and walking inside to read my tax returns. But the actual act of transmitting that information (or any other information) should not be a crime
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Then you're wrong. Period.
You're perfectly free to disagree with the law, but claiming its not a crime is flat out factually wrong -- the DMCA and similar laws do exist, whether you like it or not.
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Re:We pirates must unite (Score:4, Interesting)
https://sourceforge.net/projec... [sourceforge.net]
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Queues are for communists!1!!11
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"Piracy" if a perfectly good term for the practice, dating back to the 1800's. If you have to lie and use a misleading term to make people think it's acceptable - well, that just shows the true colors doesn't it?
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Wrong, pirates don't point a magic replicator at a ship and get a copy of the contents while the ship goes on unmolested. You have been brainwashed by the entertainment cartel thugs who have lawmakers in their pockets.
Wrong (Score:2)
Wrong, unlike you I've not been brainwashed into believing that stealing the fruits of someone else's labor is something I'm entitled to do and not theft at all.
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What stealing? The people selling content still have their fruits.
Or to put it another way, for almost all of human history people could retell a story or replay a song. Now some thug gets a lawmaker in their pocket and makes that illegal except if you pay the thug. And you imagine yourself on the side of truth and righteousness siding with the thug.
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You're confused, "copyright" is merely a creation of politicians. You speak of "rights' that are not implicit, they are just recent creations of politician's minds. Again, this is not theft, nothing is stolen. You don't know right from wrong, you imagine the "law" is right. It was legal to stuff Jews into railroad cars to take them to concentration camps, for example.
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'Piracy' is a perfectly good word for the act of taking the fruits of someone else's labor without paying for it. They're not 'making' people think it's unacceptable, because the act (the theft of someone else's work) was already unacceptable across the civilized world.
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Magical Thinking. (Score:1)
And use technology to create an amazing decentralized pirate torrenting site that can never be shut down!
And deliver certified safe downloads. Consistently high quality rips --- HD or 4K UHD --- that can compete with legit free or subscription services costing $10--$5/mo US.That don't take an eternity to download or require a major commitment of the pirate's own bandwidth and other resources. And. of course, no signicant legal exposure for its sponsors. Who must still find a way to pay the light bill;
But if i asked 10 random people if 'file sharing' was wrong and should be illegal, they would say 'No! you should be able to share files"
But maybe not OK to share files with 10,000 of your closest friends on the P2P nets. "File sharing" as the gee
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And while i respect the jury right to nullification, and the jury process, and your rights to a jury, MAN can 12 random people be really really dumb, especially when the topic is really technical and they are being told the wrong facts from a judge and prosecutor
Distributed index (Score:5, Insightful)
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Because indexes are hard and distributed data is hard. And combining the two concepts is hard-squared.
And better yet, indexes are data, so distributing an index requires another index of the index, which then must be distributed, which requires another index of the index of the index... and now we're into infinite recursion territory. Flattening recursion like that creates a koan. There are ways of handling that, too, but it's not simple or obvious.
And once you do this for bittorrent trackers, you'd be a fo
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Its hard, but not impossible. Using a bitcoin-style blockchain system should allow for a distributed index with fairly strong protection against tampering.
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Why aren't there any distributed indexes? Seems silly to have an entire distributed distribution system without a matching index.
Ah if only I had mod points! +1
This is something I ask every single time this comes up. Why are the indexes not distributed the same way the torrent itself is? This seriously cannot be that hard to solve.
Re:Distributed index (Score:5, Insightful)
And/Or other simple restrictions like limiting the number of torrents any node can add to the index.
And/Or a voting system that allows all nodes to vote on others to help the client applications with prioritizing/filtering the index.
For node enrolling, I think a memory-hard cpu-hard hash of parts/some of the index should be viable.
As you can see there are a lot of problems with non-obvious fixes. I've been studying distributed databases for some time and i have problems putting this together. not easy.
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google failed me with a report from 2013
Average joe just can't download it.
Re:Distributed index (Score:5, Interesting)
Technically speaking, It's not impossible; The problem is that it's spammable/DoSable and will need an authority to either allow/deny nodes from inserting to index or someone like our good old friend 'hosts guy' to maintain a list of known good source nodes that people can download and only share the indexes from those.
No authority is needed, because there isn't one already. In the centralized index situation, no human validates torrents uploaded to the centralized indices. Instead, the users do. If you go search for any blockbuster movie you care to name on Pirate Bay, you'll get 50 pages worth of hits. The first 10 to 15 hits might be useful, with various bitrate encodings and various subtitles and audio tracks in them, and then it very very quickly tails off into utter trash. It doesn't seem to hurt Pirate Bay. Nobody ever selects the torrents with zero seeds unless they're looking for something so niche that there's no other option, and no one seeds bogus torrents. Even their pathetic originators give up extremely quickly.
And/Or other simple restrictions like limiting the number of torrents any node can add to the index.
In a decentralized index, that limit is only in the local node, where it is easily removed. Not worth bothering to write the code in the first place.
And/Or a voting system that allows all nodes to vote on others to help the client applications with prioritizing/filtering the index.
The seed count effectively serves as a voting system today. It's by far the most useful metric. About the only other useful metric is a user-defined list of strings. Quality video encodings tend to have some release group tag in the torrent name. Easy enough to push priority up a bit if the user's preferred string is present.
What's missing is implementing support for search within Mainline DHT. Kademlia DHT on which it is based has a scheme already designed:
Filename searches are implemented using keywords. The filename is divided into its constituent words. Each of these keywords is hashed and stored in the network, together with the corresponding filename and file hash. A search involves choosing one of the keywords, contacting the node with an ID closest to that keyword hash, and retrieving the list of filenames that contain the keyword. Since every filename in the list has its hash attached, the chosen file can then be obtained in the normal way.
Mainline DHT has omitted that functionality. If it were implemented, index sites would no longer be required.
Obviously Mainline DHT traffic would increase substantially, but it would still be quite small compared to torrent traffic. Also, if it were implemented exactly as described, clients would be responsible for filtering results coming in from the DHT. Most users want the logical AND of their search terms, but Kademlia specifies a logical OR. Performing that processing is simple enough though, and of course the client could present results much like web search engines do, with results that contain as many of the keywords as possible presented first, followed by results with fewer and fewer matches. You don't get the fuzzy matching most of the web search engines employ doing that, but as it happens, you also don't get fuzzy matching from Pirate Bay search anymore, so that's no loss. Client authors then have the option of preemptively fetching .torrent files in order to get tracker lists to be able to rank the results by how active they are, or of waiting to let users do some manual culling first. That whole process is substantially slower than a centralized index site. Mainline DHT is anything but fast, most of the time. It is, however, bulletproof. As long as the DHT exists, files could be found.
BEP 0005 [bittorrent.org] specifies KRPC methods of ping, find_node, get_peers, and announce_peer. What's needed is a new BEP to extend the protocol, adding search_peers.
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No authority is needed, because there isn't one already. In the centralized index situation, no human validates torrents uploaded to the centralized indices. Instead, the users do.
That was my point. there is some authority.
In a decentralized index, that limit is only in the local node, where it is easily removed. Not worth bothering to write the code in the first place.
Maybe i should have been more clear. If you get say 50 torrents from a node in 22 hours you only advertise the first 16 to your peers if it's not in your trusted list.
I still think there should be some restrictions because the index will become very large very fast.
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No authority is needed, because there isn't one already. In the centralized index situation, no human validates torrents uploaded to the centralized indices. Instead, the users do.
That was my point. there is some authority.
Well no, there isn't. There is no one who says, "YIFY torrent, approved and available for download! Cell phone cam from random derp guy, disapproved, not available for download!" Everything is made available that parses as a torrent file, regardless of content, or whether or not the label actually matches the contents, and search results return them all. Then it's up to the users to figure out, individually, which torrents are actually valuable. Swarm size is the proxy of that determination. The whole
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Re:Distributed index (Score:5, Interesting)
Why aren't there any distributed indexes? Seems silly to have an entire distributed distribution system without a matching index.
Torrents were made so that you could put a 10kb torrent file instead of a 700 MB Linux ISO on your website, it was a way for a master source to "crowdfund" hosting. It didn't try to be a P2P solution like Napster or Kazaa. That's also why they never got sued, nothing about the tool itself made it dubious in the the eyes of the law. The biggest problem with an index is spam and DDoS. For it to work well I think you'd have to do something more like RSS with digital signatures and PGP's web of trust. Like say if you find a torrent made by a release group, you can subscribe to their "channel" where only they can post new torrents + info about other "channels" they trust/no longer trust.
Even then there's issues of propagation and when a client should start/stop searching for new posts. Then again magnet links are pretty small, might just say that every update is a full replacement with a timestamp and max limit like 1000 torrents * 20 (SHA-1) = ~20kb. So distributed host checks signature and timestamp, if newer replace RSS "feed". Client asks by signature hash and gets the latest version, can verify signature and start downloading the magnet links for more info on each entry. Web of trust can be done similarly, hash of trusted signature + trust value. It all sounds pretty doable...
Volunteer Shutdowns Everywere (Score:4, Interesting)
There have been multiple volunteer shutdowns in recent weeks, whether it's release groups like JYK or torrent sites like Nyaa. No information is ever revealed as to why they decided to shut down, just that it was voluntary. I assume somebody is putting a lot of pressure on these people and they're doing it to avoid criminal charges.
This is clearly a far better approach to stopping piracy than suing a few downloaders, but I'm not sure they can win this game of whack-a-mole. Nyaa was almost immediately replaced by nyaa.pantsu.cat, while the Pirate Bay is still running as an alternative to ExtraTorrent. It'll be interesting to see what happens if they sustain this attack.
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"Voluntarily" tends to mean something different when it comes to situations like this than you expect from the daily usage of the word.
While there's maybe a few sites that close on their own here and there for whatever reason, if you start seeing a whole spat of them at once, there's a good chance that some police organization or other has sent them a message along the lines of "We know who you are. Shut down on your own or we'll do it for you." Its technically "voluntary" by the strictest definition of t
naive question: what's wrong with piratebay (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:naive question: what's wrong with piratebay (Score:5, Interesting)
"Is there a reason one would use a site like extratorrent rather than piratebay?
Stuff on the pirate bay is only high quality if its popular, if you're more into stuff thats niche or you want high qualtiy stuff you need to go to other sites. Take Dragon ball Z a popular anime, you can get better rips from private trackers or specialty trackers who's fans are dedicated to uploading high quality rips. On TPB you will find everything but the quality will vary accordingly, much stuff on the pirate bay is only 'good enough' if you want average to bad video encoding quality and hence private trackers.
Re:naive question: what's wrong with piratebay (Score:5, Insightful)
Is there a reason one would use a site like extratorrent rather than piratebay? They all just list torrents, right? I recognize I'm terribly uninformed when it comes to piracy, just wondering if I'm missing something.
What's wrong with The Pirate Bay is that it is becoming the only torrent site. All the others are shutting down, which means when The Pirate Bay falls, there will be nothing left. It's dangerous to be too reliant on one site. Think they're too big to be shut down? Kickass Torrents was just as big. There needs to be more options. When there are only a few, they are targets. It will only be a matter of time before The Pirate Bay falls.
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TPB may be becoming the only well-known torrent site, but its hardly the only existing one. If they fall, others will fill the gap. It may take a while before another one takes precedence as "the" torrent site, but it will happen.
Just like killing Napster didn't end file sharing, nor will killing TPB (yet again..) and Napster was in far far more of a "the only one" situation at the time.
That's the fact that the RIAA and MPAA refuse to face. The constant game of legal whack-a-mole can only provide them wi
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thepiratebay websites have been replaced with viruses/malware. Seriously, try to use one and you will get pop-ups, redirects, all sorts of bullshit even when using good extensions like ublock origin, and noscript. At this point I consider thepiratebay simply an exploit site designed to turn your computer in to a drone.
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what is TPB?
The Pirate Bay
And also, was free & open-source software really not available already on its own webpage?
Web servers use a server-client model that means the server has to have enough bandwidth to satisfy all the clients. Bittorrent is a peer-to-peer model which means all the clients help each other to pass around the data. This makes torrenting a good fit for distributing large datasets, like Linux distributions.
Almost positive (Score:5, Insightful)
That the torrent site operators got spooked after kickass torrents operator, Artem Vaulin lost his extradition request in Poland. Now anybody linked to a torrent site is potentially liable to spend a decade or more in a federal prison, even if they don't live or host anything in the U.S.
Why take his advice? (Score:2, Insightful)
Ok, "fake" implies fraud, suggesting someone might phish for credentials, but why would people want to stay away from clones? That doesn't make sense. If someone liked this site, surely they'd prefer a clone over simply doing-without.
The big question about stuff like this, is why do torrent site operators not try to have their sites outlast them? Why isn't there a torrent of all their data (maybe without user tables)? That they want their projects to die
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Well given that they explicitly said they're deleting all their data, any clone you find is probably also a fake.
As for why they don't want their sites to outlast them.. primarily because there's no incentive to do so. Most torrent site operators are in it for the money -- that's why most torrent sites have ads pasted all over the damned place and half their links that look like the "download" button are actually even more ads (and since theoretically-legitimate advertisers like Google don't like working w
Rise and fall of Bittorrent (Score:2)
Re:Another victim of terrible leftist laws (Score:5, Insightful)
Any abuse of copyright law can be fixed by amending the law, and the government elected afterwards has not done so.
That's not a leftist ideology, that's a corporate ideology.
An actual leftist ideology would be something similar to the GPL that recognizes that nothing should be locked down in the long-term by a small elite - especially if it allows people to use computers without having to pay more than they should (e.g. allow computers to have Linux, a basic set of compilers, and basic software required to do practically any common task.)
Re:Another victim of terrible leftist laws (Score:5, Informative)
The DMCA is a terrible leftist law passed in 1996 by a voice vote in the Republican controlled House and unanimous consent in the Republican controlled Senate.
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Just goes to show that money talks.
Re: Another victim of terrible leftist laws (Score:1)
It took me about 5 seconds to verify that the GOP controlled both houses of Congress at the time.
Nice try, partisan fake news fuckstain.
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I'm not sure what the "left" is any more (or the right to tell the truth).
Good, that puts you 5 steps closer to the truth than you were when you thought the terms had meaning.
So, here's the history.
Before taking the names that they would be known as later, three sociopolitical philosophies forming in the universities of 1920's Europe called themselves "left, right, and center." Which was right and which was left was kind of arbitrary, but since the other one was a bit of a hybrid of the two, it was called center. They were all being developed to "solve" the problems of individu
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I view it as "leftist" because it expanded the powers of government at the expense of the people. ("It" being the anti-circumvention aspects, not the safe harbor and boat design aspects; I'm not addressing those here.) It created a new crime out of an innocent activity.
This is independent of it also being such an unusually bad idea. Unless you're a perfect anarchist or perfect totalitarian, left/right rarely implies much about good or bad.
Re:Leftist (Score:4, Insightful)
I view it as "leftist" because it expanded the powers of government at the expense of the people.
The left in theory gives power to the people, while the right gives power to the aristocracy. The terms come from the French revolution.
In the US, it is more government versus the elite and corporations. But since the latter controls the former, its a moot point.
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I view it as "leftist" because it expanded the powers of government at the expense of the people.
The left in theory gives power to the people, while the right gives power to the aristocracy. The terms come from the French revolution.
In the US, it is more government versus the elite and corporations. But since the latter controls the former, its a moot point.
This,
It is authoritarian policies that give more power to the government and liberal (as in liberalism) polices that give more power to individuals.
Authoritarian and liberal policies can be anywhere on the left-right spectrum.
The DCMA and Copyright are definitely extreme right and extreme authoritarian as they're designed to empower corporations over everything else. The irony is that copyright was originally designed to empower individuals, it was still right leaning, but more liberal as it gave t
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That's not leftist. The left wants to protect average people from the rich and powerful who usually control things. Yes that usually amounts to expanded government (because who else has the ability to put checks on the already-powerful?) But expanding government in itself is not the goal. Most leftists would be perfectly happy with a smaller government if they could still get the protections they want.
The DMCA on the other hand protects the profits of a few large corporations (ie: the rich an powerful,)
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I think you missed the sarcasm.
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Been there done that.
Having to create proxy identities for when they inevitably get raided or having the user info dumped by hackers is more hassle than just getting behind onion routing and going anon public. No thanks
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Yep, the future of torrenting is on I2P. The only reason it hasn't been done is due to a chicken-and-egg popularity problem. It needs to be popular to be fast and have lots of content, and it needs to be fast and have lots of content to be popular.
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Very interesting website! Added to my RSS feeds.
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I just pay for my content and don't worry about it.
Don't break an arm patting yourself on the back champ, your medal's in the mail.
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Oh yeah nobody from the feds or big media could ever get invited to that...
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btdb.in (but watch out for pop up windows)