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GE, Intel, and AT&T Are Putting Cameras and Sensors All Over San Diego (fortune.com) 125

An anonymous reader shares a Fortune report: General Electric will put cameras, microphones, and sensors on 3,200 street lights in San Diego this year, marking the first large-scale use of "smart city" tools GE says can help monitor traffic and pinpoint crime, but raising potential privacy concerns. Based on technology from GE's Current division, Intel and AT&T, the system will use sensing nodes on light poles to locate gunshots, estimate crowd sizes, check vehicle speeds and other tasks, GE and the city said on Wednesday. The city will provide the data to entrepreneurs and students to develop applications. Companies expect a growing market for such systems as cities seek better data to plan and run their operations. San Diego is a test of "Internet of things" technology that GE Current provides for commercial buildings and industrial sites.
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GE, Intel, and AT&T Are Putting Cameras and Sensors All Over San Diego

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  • Not entirely sure (Score:5, Interesting)

    by arth1 ( 260657 ) on Wednesday February 22, 2017 @12:23PM (#53912023) Homepage Journal

    and other tasks

    That's the worry.

    • by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Wednesday February 22, 2017 @12:34PM (#53912101)

      and other tasks

      That's the worry.

      It's the worry for the very small fraction of intelligent people who already know how will be abused.

      For the other 99% of society who doesn't give a shit about privacy anymore, they don't care about the abuse, including the cost of implementing or maintaining this for little or no real value.

      This isn't about traffic or crime. This is about Control.

      • To be honest, if I'm looking at all the people who use the Chrome browser, who use Windows 10, who use smartphones, and who all have opted into this control and surveillance, I think that putting cameras in places with rampant crime and abuse is a good way to stop it. However, if you only put cameras to the places of the city where crime is most present, it will just simply move. Therefore its a good idea to place cameras into every part of the city. If this is only done in cities where crime is very presen

        • To be honest, if I'm looking at all the people who use the Chrome browser, who use Windows 10, who use smartphones, and who all have opted into this control and surveillance, I think that putting cameras in places with rampant crime and abuse is a good way to stop it. However, if you only put cameras to the places of the city where crime is most present, it will just simply move. Therefore its a good idea to place cameras into every part of the city. If this is only done in cities where crime is very present, then its a good move!

          Also, these cameras can't be turned off by police officials as easily as body cameras can, so I think its more likely to see better proof for police brutality and to pick out the bad apples.

          Obviously, you need to watch out that these data don't get into wrong hands and maybe get used for extortion.

          Your naivete is saddening. You seem to feel that somehow THIS system of control, unlike all other systems of control, will magically not be abused just because there is a way to "watch out that [it doesn't] get into the wrong hands" and "If this [new system of control] is only done in [narrowly defined situations with no mission creep] then its [sic] a good move!"

          Why are you willfully choosing to believe something which has never been reality before, is going to be reality THIS time?
          1) This level of pervasi

          • suicide will become one of the last refuges.... if they don't suicide you first...
          • I agree with you in principle but I honestly think we are on the verge of something entirely new.

            It will be the end of anonymity, the end of privacy, the end of certain kinds of freedom.

            If we can guide our new society we can make it something that I would enjoy. We need to be careful to establish wide liberties on private things such as sexuality, freedom of thought, pursuit of altered states of consciousness. In some of these regards I see promising developments already.

            If we can establish wide libertie
            • by Altrag ( 195300 )

              Imagine a world like this, where freedom was valued but violence was simply not tolerated. It is not entirely appalling.

              Not entirely appalling, but unfortunately its pretty unrealistic, mostly because nobody will be willing to give wide liberties on many subjects, especially sexuality. Even if the all discriminatory laws are wiped and we somehow come to consensus on the exactly lines for things like what constitutes rape and whatnot so that everyone knows exactly the rules to follow by law.. unfortunately that does nothing for the social issues and those can be just as freedom-inhibiting as legal issues.

              We already see that

              • I'm a lot more optimistic than you are. There are people alive now who remember when gays were killed without repercussion, blacks were given separate accommodations, women couldn't vote, etc. We are making rapid change towards equal rights. We aren't there yet but we have really come a long way in a relatively short time.

                Frankly I'm surprised how quickly gay marriage became widely accepted. I'm also surprised how fast weed has gone mainstream. I'm normally a pessimist but these things give me hope.
          • by Hylandr ( 813770 )

            tl;dr

            Botnets forecast to grow by at least 3200 new infected units for hire next year.

        • by lgw ( 121541 )

          However, if you only put cameras to the places of the city where crime is most present, it will just simply move. Therefore its a good idea to place cameras into every part of the city.

          Studies of crime in places where cameras are as close to "everywhere" as is practical, such as prisons, Navy ships, and London, show that criminals know where the blinds spots are. A heatmap of crime looks exactly like you'd expect: you can tell where the cameras are from it.

          • Thats an argument along the lines of "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns". Of course, the crime that's left is in the blind spots, but it doesn't mean that it wasn't successful.

            That being said, I don't suggest that the entire US should be carpet surveilled with cameras like the british islands are. Just apply it to some few select crime hot spots.

            • by lgw ( 121541 )

              In London, overall crimes rates were not reduced in the study I read. If the goal is "move the crime to where the people we don't like live", then, sure, you might accomplish that - like much of modern policing. Otherwise, you're just moving the crime hotspots around.

              • In London, overall crimes rates were not reduced in the study I read. If the goal is "move the crime to where the people we don't like live", then, sure, you might accomplish that - like much of modern policing. Otherwise, you're just moving the crime hotspots around.

                So you’re trying to say we should only put cameras in Red States?

              • What happens when there are no blind spots? Cameras keep getting cheaper and better. Eventually we'll be able to spray camera paint on walls and pave the roads with camera asphault. I think we are headed for a whole new world. We will need to be careful it doesn't turn out fascist. I'm certain that violent and property crime will pretty much end.
                • by dryeo ( 100693 )

                  Why do think that violent and property crime will end? Most crime here is done by drunk people who don't think about consequences, then there's the other ones who are incapable of thinking of consequences due to mental damage or desperation and of course the well connected criminals who get the laws changed in their favour and/or have good lawyers.
                  You can keep locking up people, but the American experiment shows that doesn't keep crime down, At that locking people up and then denying them basic rights for t

                  • There is some difference between "lock someone up for 2 years and let them meet the real gangsters to teach them how to be criminal" and "lock someone up and teach them how to become legal". There is much work to do to improve the current situation on this front. Its not made easier that the legal system punishes black people to an extraordinary extent. Also, there are other forms of punishment than just putting someone into a prison. Like fines for example.

                  • A lot of the crime I see is bicycle theft and graffiti. Once drones are 2 cents each and fully autonomous anyone who tags a wall will be followed by drones until a policeman hands them a paint brush and forces them at gunpoint to paint over their tag. After a while only people with serious mental problems will tag, and they will be forced to clean it up immediately. Way cheaper for everyone overall.

                    Same thing for bicycle theft. Followed until forced to give it back, and apologize to the person they stole i
        • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

          " I think that putting cameras in places with rampant crime", WOW, they are going to put cameras in corporate boardrooms whose claimed value is beyond a billion dollars, that's fantastic because of course that is where crime is by far the most rampant and not the petty crime of the streets. No the crimes are corruption of democracy, treason, wars for profit, bad medicines, tainted food, completely corrupted fourth estate, mass fraud of every description, I mean really horrendous crimes that cost of the live

      • For the other 99% of society who doesn't give a shit about privacy anymore, they don't care about the abuse, including the cost of implementing or maintaining this for little or no real value.

        I used to believe this right up until Snowden and associated public polling proved me wrong.

        It doesn't matter how smart people are, what they believe or how much they assert they care. It only matters what they actually do.

        • by Altrag ( 195300 )

          Yes, but sometimes all a person has to do to help improve things is be supportive of the people with the time, energy and ability to do something more direct and show them that their fight is worthwhile.

          Sometimes just asserting that you care is enough, and its certainly better than stewing quietly and keeping your mouth shut.

        • For the other 99% of society who doesn't give a shit about privacy anymore, they don't care about the abuse, including the cost of implementing or maintaining this for little or no real value.

          I used to believe this right up until Snowden and associated public polling proved me wrong.

          Snowden didn't change a fucking thing. He only validated my statement.

          It doesn't matter how smart people are, what they believe or how much they assert they care. It only matters what they actually do.

          Exactly, which is why even Snowden didn't actually change a fucking thing when it comes to consumer behavior and privacy. Unjustified Control mechanisms will continue to be put in place, Rights will continue to deteriorate, and no one will fight it, because no one cares.

          • Exactly, which is why even Snowden didn't actually change a fucking thing when it comes to consumer behavior and privacy. Unjustified Control mechanisms will continue to be put in place, Rights will continue to deteriorate, and no one will fight it, because no one cares.

            Caring is not the same as doing. One does not necessarily flow from the other.

      • If you don't control yourself, you will be controlled. That is the way it has always been. You know it exists. Are you going to use it to control yourself, or are you going to let others use it to control you?
        • If you don't control yourself, you will be controlled. That is the way it has always been. You know it exists. Are you going to use it to control yourself, or are you going to let others use it to control you?

          Feel free to elaborate on this poetic advice as your Rights dissolve faster than a Millennials Starbucks account.

          You act as if We are still gifted with choice.

    • by Dutch Gun ( 899105 ) on Wednesday February 22, 2017 @12:39PM (#53912155)

      Also, have they solved the rampant security issues with IoT shit yet? If not, WTF? Thanks for adding to the botnet problem, San Diego. Can't wait to hear about how your entire IoT net has been hacked, and is now under the control of some unknown third party.

      • Also, have they solved the rampant security issues with IoT shit yet? If not, WTF? Thanks for adding to the botnet problem, San Diego. Can't wait to hear about how your entire IoT net has been hacked, and is now under the control of some unknown third party.

        Ain't that the truth? IT's going to be really interesting when San Diego gets owned. Because it will get owned.

      • I'm waiting for my refrigerator to tell the traffic light to turn red so I don't drive past the grocery store when I'm out of milk.

    • by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

      It's a double edged sword, there could be many interesting and beneficial uses that have yet to be thought of.. and there could be the over-arching surveillance that comes from having overly paranoid state leaders.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    How soon before people wear masks outside, just do go about their business around town?

    • How soon before people wear masks outside, just do go about their business around town?

      Automated biometrics are advancing every month. Gait, posture, general size/outline, body language... these are all keys which can be used to positively ID you in the same way face recognition is a composite of components like eyes, lips, nose, cheekbones, brow, etc. Covering your mouth or your eyes doesn't render your unrecognizable. A little harder maybe, but not by enough to defeat modern technology. So no, face masks won't make a difference. (Plus the likelihood that measures you might take to conceal y

    • Fezzik: Why do you wear a mask? Were you burned by acid or something?

      The Man in Black: Oh no. It's just they're terribly comfortable. I think everyone will be wearing them in the future.

  • Like all new technology it will be used for good and evil. "The city will provide the data to entrepreneurs and students to develop applications." Have to have faith in the majority of people to use the technology for good and to punish those that use it for evil. However, if the information is in the hands of just a few then there won't be effective oversight and it will be used for evil. What they need to do is level the playing field and provide the data as close to real time as is technically possib

  • Another permanent-(D) hellhole putting it's subjects under a microscope. Add it to the list.

    GE, Intel, and AT&T Are Putting Cameras and Sensors All Over San Diego [slashdot.org]
    San Jose May Put License Plate Scanners On Garbage Trucks [slashdot.org]
    In Baltimore and Elsewhere, Police Use Stingrays For Petty Crimes [slashdot.org]

  • I look forward to taking advantage of hacking the devices with ease from my phone.

  • Fascism seems to be eternally descending on conservative states, but landing in liberally controlled areas.

  • Unless they're surprisingly secure in the fist place, and have a trusted path for emergency re-imaging, they're going to be amazingly attractive to anyone wanting to experiment with rooting industrial-IOT hardware.
  • I can't do shit to stop this fast slide into facism, so I might as well open a shop that sells brown shirts and those fake 'looks like Charlie Chaplain mustaches but they sure aint!' dealies. Sieg Heil, and Come Again!
  • Apple and Google beat them to it.
  • The next thing will be facial recognition.

  • All the privacy of government spy programs with all the transparency of private corporations! What could possibly go wrong?

You've been Berkeley'ed!

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