UK Auto Insurer Will Use Facebook Data To Set Premium (thestack.com) 95
An anonymous reader writes: Major UK insurer Admiral has announced that it will use data garnered from Facebook profiles to help set insurance premiums for first-time drivers. The company intends to examine Facebook data including likes and posts for safe driver indicators: writing in short, concrete sentences and making concrete plans with friends using specific times and dates, rather than just 'tonight', for example, can show that a person is conscientious and well-organized, as can the use of lists. These traits are associated with safer drivers, who are less likely to file a claim with the company. Yossi Borenstein, the principal data scientist for the project, noted that the indicators of safe drivers are constantly evolving. "Our algorithm for calculating what 'safe' looks like is constantly learning, as we match social data to actual claims data." The program has already caused a storm of controversy, with some privacy rights activist groups noting that the program violates Facebook's Platform Policy, Section 3.15, which clearly says,"Don't use data obtained from Facebook to make decisions about eligibility, including whether to approve or reject an application or how much interest to charge on a loan."
No they're not according to Ars (Score:5, Informative)
http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2016/11/facebook-scuppers-algorithmic-car-insurance/
Re:No they're not according to Ars (Score:5, Funny)
If Slashdot was broadcast news, this article would be a "man bites dog" story.
Except no one was bitten.
And it's a cat.
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And they would "break" these news again four days later.
Slow Slashdot. Facebook has already put a stop to (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37847647
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Nah, no one has put a stop to anything. Facebook just said what they needed to say to prevent their users from feeling uncomfortable having much of their life on the Internet for all to see. Anything that can get your data will sell it to anyone who wants it, whether it be apps or malware, or perhaps Facebook itself (or one of their employees). If they want to keep it hidden, it can always be sold via a shell company and bought as "information" with no reference to Facebook.
Old news (Score:1)
Facebook have already announced that they are blocking Admiral from this data.
No they wont... (Score:5, Informative)
This has already been shot down by Facebook [bbc.co.uk]
Awesome New Business Model (Score:3, Interesting)
Too bad facebook blocked it because it makes for a great business opportunity:
You pay me to run a bot that rewrites all your facebook posts to conform to whatever scoring system the insurance companies use to decide that you should get the cheapest possible rates.
If these companies are going to be stupid enough to take data that I have control over and use that to make business decisions that can benefit me, I'm sure as shit going to use that channel to exploit them for every penny I can. Those assholes wi
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The insurance cartel would probably convince the government that this would be insurance fraud or something stupid; I wouldn't put it past them.
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Yeah, I'm sure they're doing it to "protect the privacy of their users", and not because they aren't getting kickbacks on it (yet).
Facebook blocked it already (Score:1)
Facebook have blocked it already
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37847647
Charge Facrcebook Users More (Score:2, Funny)
Will insurance be free for those responsible and prudent enough to not use facebook?
Low bar (Score:5, Insightful)
Won a battle, lost the war ... (Score:3)
A less charitable (but imho more realistic) view of Facebook's uncooperative attitude would be that Facebook objects to someone extracting value from their data without paying them first. And wants to make sure they're covered against legal fallout about the quality of the data they're providing. After all, they wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a class action suit for not exercising due diligence in pro
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As to Facebook's "rules", look at e.g. LinkedIn. I'm quite certain that headhunters take people's LinkedIn profile into consideration and use it to co-determine whether to contact someone and who to recommend them to at what salary level. So why not Facebook? One might say it's because Facebook is not explicitly aimed at job-marketing yourself, but that's but an extra service (agreement) away.
Not a valid comparison. One of the main reasons that people get onto LinkedIn is to look for work. I wish that headhunters would take more time reading my LinkedIn profile so they would stop asking me about positions that have a keyword match in my experience but are clearly not what I do.
Re:Won a battle, lost the war ... (Score:4, Informative)
In the UK where this insurer is based, businesses need permission to access this data. Facebook can't just sell it to them. They can do some targeting on behalf of advertisers, but they can't pass on the content of non-public posts or personal details.
Voluntary black boxes for young drivers never really took off here either. They quickly got a reputation for being inaccurate, especially in cars with small engines. After people start getting shadow banned because they shared their Facebook posts this will go the same way.
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Not a problem. Users can give their consent by signing up or continuing to use Facebook, or even by consenting explicitly on a case by case basis. And strictly speaking, Facebook will only be selling meta-information on people that companies could have obtain
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Here's an affirmative quote from one of the articles: "We've been working closely with Facebook in Europe to get the service ready, and are now addressing a few outstanding issues."
My interpretation of this is Facebook is keen on the whole idea. Which can only mean it's just a matter of time for the hype to die down and some rewording and it'll be all go again.
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sigh (Score:2)
I remember the good old days, when insurance companies used myspace to set insurance premiums.
Now get off my lawn!
Re:sigh (Score:4, Insightful)
I remember the good old days, when insurance companies used myspace to set insurance premiums.
Now get off my lawn!
I remember the days when my driving record set my premium!
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Don't worry -- soon it will be back to that. Insurance companies will require a radar unit in the front grill. Once it detects you approaching an object at high speed, it will raise your insurance rate by $10,000 about 0.02 seconds before the crash. That is legal, right?
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I remember the old days when a driver who was blinded by the sun decided to drive faster, ran a red light, and plowed into my mother's car (with me in the front passenger seat). The driver's wife sued my parents' insurance company because she broke her leg, she couldn't sue her husband, and NY state laws meant that we were partially responsible for just being there (despite clearly having the right of way). My parents' insurance company settled without consulting my parents, and then raised my parents' rate
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The point of the story is that insurance companies have always sought ways to charge customers more even before social media.
Insurance companies are very good at cashing checks. Writing them, not so much.
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The point of the story is that insurance companies have always sought ways to charge customers more even before social media.
Insurance companies are very good at cashing checks. Writing them, not so much.
As opposed to all other businesses, which just love giving money away?
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Giving money away? Is that what you call paying out claims, the very purpose of insurance in the first place?
That isn't giving money away any more than paying wages to employees is giving money away.
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I remember the good old days, when insurance companies used myspace to set insurance premiums.
Now get off my lawn!
I remember the days when my driving record set my premium!
*sigh* This is for new drivers.
Everyone here may think this is entirely stupid, but 17/18 year olds in the UK who have just passed their test pay very high premiums because there is a high accident rate with this age group. As a parent I'd be quite glad of a way to pay GBP500 rather than GBP2000 (or whatever) for my kid's first year of insurance.
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I remember the good old days, when insurance companies used myspace to set insurance premiums.
Now get off my lawn!
I remember the days when my driving record set my premium!
*sigh* This is for new drivers.
Everyone here may think this is entirely stupid, but 17/18 year olds in the UK who have just passed their test pay very high premiums because there is a high accident rate with this age group. As a parent I'd be quite glad of a way to pay GBP500 rather than GBP2000 (or whatever) for my kid's first year of insurance.
I moved to the UK from Australia earlier this year. Its not just young people.
I went from paying A$900 (GBP 450) to insure a Nissan 200sx (S15) modified* to paying GBP 650 for a bog standard Z4 3.0. No at fault accidents ever, 1 write off (rear ended whilst stationary) no traffic infringements. Its not even the type of car, the cheapest quote I got was for a Seat Leon and that was still upwards GBP 500.
The insurance industry needs to be reigned in, in the UK and strictly regulated. Then again, the UK
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I remember the good old days, when insurance companies used myspace to set insurance premiums.
Now get off my lawn!
I remember the days when my driving record set my premium!
The problem is, driving records dont demonstrate you're a good driver. It is entirely possible that you've got a clean record but are a terrible driver and the only reason you haven't had a crash is because other driver are looking out for you.
What I want is a simple accelerator attached to the indicator. The device records constantly but only saves the last 5 seconds before and after a change in direction. Those consistently failing to indicate get their premiums doubled, those using them as confirmicators
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What I want is a simple accelerator attached to the indicator. The device records constantly but only saves the last 5 seconds before and after a change in direction. Those consistently failing to indicate get their premiums doubled, those using them as confirmicators get their premiums tripled.
So you want to double my premiums just because I don't use my turn signals? Who the fsck is there to warn that I'm about to turn when I'm the only vehicle in sight?
Even if you could prove that bad drivers rarely use their turn signals, you cannot prove that rarely using your turn signals equates to being a bad driver.
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I remember the good old days, when insurance companies used myspace to set insurance premiums.
Now get off my lawn!
I remember the days when my driving record set my premium!
The days of living in reality are LONG gone. A perfect driving record is merely luck. You should have had an accident by now according to all of the indicators; therefore, you need to be charged more.
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You're obviously a newbie. Before MySpace it was calculated by inverting the number of GIFs on your Geocities page, and before that it was based on how many AOL CDs you threw out. Going back even further, premiums were set by users themselves via Telnet (until the insurance companies figured out how secure their systems, anyway).
Re:Bullcrap! (Score:5, Insightful)
Bull crap! American companies better not start doing this too. I'm one of the few people who does not use Facebook, or any social media for that matter. If a company starts using Facebook data to determine things about me, they better ASSUME THE BEST or it is downright discrimination. So for auto insurance, I better get the best rate, as if I had everything they were looking for on my non-existing Facebook account.
Just like how they assume the best about you when you apply for a mortage and have no credit history because you don't use credit cards, and use a pre-paid phone, etc?
Good luck with that.
On the upside at least, if your someone who doesn't use facebook, you can hire someone to create a profile for you, and have them go around liking 'seatbelts'*1, non-alcoholic beer *2, MADD, Volvo Wagons *3, and making periodic posts saying you will be picking up the milk, bread, cheese, and organic lettuce, at the whole foods*4 at 321 Main Street, at 4:35 pm (*5), unless it is raining*6
*1 - safety!
*2 - non drinker
*3 - boring and safe
*4 - healthy!
*5 - organized and precise
*6 - because you don't make unnecessary trips if it is raining.
* (indicating your are very health conscious)
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My daughter has only a year of two of having a credit card, no car loans ever, no cellphone bill (I pay it), no history of renting, yet her bank tells her that she has a credit score of 849.
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"My daughter has only a year of two of having a credit card"
So she has a credit history, and assuming she pays her bill on time and in full... a great credit history.
"yet her bank tells her that she has a credit score of 849."
Funny how that works. Have a great credit history get a great score.
You do know that the scoring doesn't give you extra points for having LOTS of stuff in your file, right?
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You do know that the scoring doesn't give you extra points for having LOTS of stuff in your file, right?
Actually, it does. Both longer history and greater variety of credit will increase at least most credit scores (they all calculate credit a bit differently, but FICO, for example, uses both length and variety). Without knowing the specific scoring system, it's hard to say more (for example, FICO only goes to 850, and she sure as shit didn't get a 849 after 2 years of 1 credit card).
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Yes. You are correct. I misspoke.
Variety matters... but there's not really a LOT of different debt instruments the average person has (crredit card + morgatge + some sort of other small secured loan e.g. HELOC or car loan) so 2-3 different types of credit account basically maxes your score.
And length matters too. Although bad stuff falls off after several years anyway. As do closed accounts. I know of people who ran into issues with credit because it had been years since they needed any. A widow who's vari
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My point was a simple credit history is not a bad thing as relates to the score.
You are, of course, correct, in observing that credit history length *is* important. Its also worth pointing that creditors do not simply look at your score and approve the loan... they look at your income/debt ratio, employment situation, assets & ability to repay. You credit "score" is just a piece and its not hard to get rejected for a loan despite having a great score for many reasons.
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Yeah it's shocking that a year or two of good credit history with no negative factors would result in a good credit score.
Amazing!!!!
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Just like how they assume the best about you when you apply for a mortage and have no credit history because you don't use credit cards, and use a pre-paid phone, etc?
Good luck with that.
On the upside at least, if your someone who doesn't use facebook, you can hire someone to create a profile for you, and have them go around liking 'seatbelts'*1, non-alcoholic beer *2, MADD, Volvo Wagons *3, and making periodic posts saying you will be picking up the milk, bread, cheese, and organic lettuce, at the whole foods*4 at 321 Main Street, at 4:35 pm (*5), unless it is raining*6
You're just not thinking like an insurance company, let me help you:
*1 - Seatbelt == racing harness. Premium increase.
*2 - Likely hiding a drinking problem == Premium increase.
*3 - MADD == Doesn't indicate, Volvo's dont need to be modified with a roll cage for rallying == rally driver - Double premium increase.
*4 - Demonstrates you're willing to spend more for the same product == Premium increase and upsell.
*5 - Demonstrates you shirk work by leaving before 5:30 PM = Lazy and unreliable == Premium incr
How about just (Score:2)
looking at driving record (moving violations) as well as claims (at fault, no fault) and geographic area for accidents and claims. Pretty easy and doesn't create a ton of Orwellian privacy issues.
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The Orwellian privacy issues were introduced the moment you started using Facebook. The data is there for anyone. So FB blocked one idiot that was dumb enough to make a press release about it. How many others are doing in quietly?
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It doesn't have to make sense, and while this is straying a little from the topic: I was denied an increase in my credit card limit because I don't have enough debt. Yes, they actually said as much; despite an 800+ credit score, they weren't interested --- perhaps because they knew they would collect no interest from me.
Decision criteria, whether for credit or insurance rates, are strictly profit based. Don't kid yourself about there being fairness in the system.
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looking at driving record (moving violations) as well as claims (at fault, no fault) and geographic area for accidents and claims. Pretty easy and doesn't create a ton of Orwellian privacy issues.
That is a good approach so long as the person in question has a driving record.
According to the summary:
[...]to help set insurance premiums for first-time drivers.
So that makes it a little harder to look at a their driving record if the person in question has no record to consider.
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Which is why if you're between 17-24, your premiums start off sky-high. Your best bet is to get someone to vouch for you and add you to their insurance. But even then, no rental agency will want to rent you a car (most won't insure anyone under 24, but a few might if there is someone who will rent the car and add you to it).
In fact, what really happens is this company will just do what all
Black Mirror (Score:2)
Paradigm shift into Drive (Score:3, Funny)
Prepare for a flood of Facebook posts that read something like: "Fastening my safety belt and driving below the speed limit on my way to the movies with my friends"
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Prepare for a flood of Facebook posts that read something like: "Fastening my safety belt and driving below the speed limit on my way to the movies with my friends"
Let me correct that for you:
Prepare for a flood of Facebook posts that read something like: "Fastening my safety belt and driving below the speed limit on my way to the movies with my friends"
- posted using my iPhone on I-97
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- posted using my iPhone on I-97
Probably safer doing it there than the I95 through New Jersey!
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Prepare for a flood of Facebook posts that read something like: "Fastening my safety belt and driving below the speed limit on my way to the movies with my friends"
Let me correct that for you:
Prepare for a flood of Facebook posts that read something like: "Fastening my safety belt and driving below the speed limit on my way to the movies with my friends"
- posted using my iPhone on I-97
I dare say a UK insurer wont care if you're on the I-97.
Ze M6 on the other hand...
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True, although if you're on the M6, there is a good chance you're stationary somewhere just North of Birmingham wondering when traffic will ever move again. It might be safe to post to facebook if you're stationary.
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Prepare for a flood of Facebook posts that read something like: "Fastening my safety belt and driving below the speed limit on my way to the movies with my friends"
Well the first thing they'll notice is that you're not English by saying "fastening" and calling it a "safety belt". You could have probably gotten away with "movies" instead of "cinema" and "friends" instead of "mates" if not for that extremely basic mistake.
better idea (Score:1)
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Just give them an IQ test and get it over with. That's basically the same thing in a high percentage of cases.
Won't work.
If they tried that in the Washington, D.C./Alexandria, VA area they'd end up with a negative number that would crash their cost calculating algorithm.
Strat
Ooh, excellent! (Score:5, Interesting)
Step one: Make a Facebook profile (either your first or an additional one) and add a few friends.
Step two: Post lots of short updates matching their expected "safe driver" ruleset.
Step three: Point your insurer at that account and enjoy lower premiums.
I think this is an excellent idea from the insurers, and I encourage anyone I'm about to borrow money from to use the same process. Please.
I just had a business idea (Score:4, Interesting)
And it's free for anyone wanting to take it because I'm, to be honest, too lazy to carry it out.
Facebook optimizer.
Like SEO, just for Facebook profiles. Want to pay less for your insurance? Be attractive to recruiters? Appear law abiding to law enforcement? Visit pimp my profile for the latest informations and our low, low prices!
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You don't have Facebook? Even better! Join now and we'll make you the profile insurances, employers, probation officers and mothers-in-law dream of!
Do have Facbook? No problem either. Just create a real profile and let us handle your "official you"!
Self-Contradiction There (Score:2)
writing in short, concrete sentences and making concrete plans with friends using specific times and dates, rather than just 'tonight',
That contradicts itself. Just saying "tonight" as a lot shorter than "at 8pm this evening at the third table on the left in the Smallville McDonalds, but if that is full, then at the fifth table on the right in the Smallville Starbucks".
I tend to use long sentences because I am a fairly precise person (I wrote semi-legal engineering specifications at one time) and I usually find that I include some "ifs", "buts" and caveats to cover different eventualities and to close off possible misinterpretations; ther
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The entire concept strikes me as ridiculous!
making concrete plans with friends using specific times and dates, rather than just 'tonight', for example, can show that a person is conscientious and well-organized
I meet up with a group of friends at the same place, at the same time, pretty much every Monday evening. Sometimes one of the group cannot attend for a week or so due to work commitments, and, being extremely organised, when he's back in the country he'll often send a message asking if everyone is "OK for this Monday?". Unsurprisingly the most common response is along the lines of "Yup, see you this evening".
And somehow this makes us less organised than including
Auto rates down, but Homeowner rates skyrocket (Score:1)
So, if oversharing your whereabouts results in being predictable and a lower risk for Auto premiums, it also unintentionally tells folks that you won't be home.
AKA
ROB ME TONIGHT. Homeowner insurance using the same profiles will wind up costing you much more!
So ... (Score:2)
good decision (Score:1)
Insurance (Score:2)