Draconian Aussie Science Censorship Law Takes Effect Next Month (theconversation.com) 265
An anonymous reader writes: The Conversation reports that beginning next month Australian scientists and engineers face 10 years imprisonment for communicating without a government permit on biotech, robotics or manufacturing. Geoffrey Roberston QC says the laws are "sloppily drafted" and threatens research with "no sensible connection to military technology". But the government is barreling ahead, despite warnings from Defence Report it will kill Australia's high-tech economy. The law is opposed by Civil Liberties Australia where scientists are petitioning against it.
Better for everyone else (Score:5, Insightful)
Keep going, Australia! Committing economic suicide makes it better for everyone else. Thanks for taking one for the team!
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Re:Better for everyone else (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Better for everyone else (Score:5, Funny)
We are fortunate indeed that Trump has come along, otherwise how could we understand Australian politics?
Re:Better for everyone else (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't sound life they're leftists. They sound like far right wingnuts.... At least the ones under discussion here, who seem to have a majority
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Ignoring the huge difference in sound pressure levels between a car backfiring and a gun firing, they sound very different and are easily distinguished by the human ear.
I think your perception of firearms is wrong.
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In think totalitarian control is politically left (communism). But some argue it is politically right as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
I prefer this clarification of left vs right:
https://www.theobjectivestanda... [theobjectivestandard.com]
Yes, they are the politically right party in our country.
What I'm getting at is that overall, compared to the USA, our politicians (including the right) are politically very left. ,reducing personal freedom, which is
A great example is how our right wing government enacted tight gun control
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The last guy on the right who wanted to make racist speech completely free got a call from an Israeli lobby group and reminded him of the free holiday they sent him on.
That's not being critical of the lobby group or implying that they didn't send people from across the political spectrum on study tours (annoying how I have to put disclaimers on EVERYTHING on this site now) - just pointing out that the guy pushing for change didn't think about
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Totalitarian control is the lazy (and brutal) way out for any form of government and it's best to remember that historically monarchies have done it as well as communists. The main point of 1984 was that something akin to what Stalin was doing could happen closer to home.
Re:Better for everyone else (Score:4, Funny)
The recent rash of anti-science and pro-military actions of our government.
It sounds like you are an Australian . . . did you get a government permit to post your comment . . . ?
Otherwise, it's off to prison with you, we'll all see you back here in 10 years.
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Re:Better for everyone else (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Better for everyone else (Score:4)
So Australia is in an anti-science race with the US, then?
With a little more cooperation between the two societies instead, we could both reach the Stone Age faster. The US can contribute a lot of Bible technology and has the world's most powerful set of activist lawyers who are old hands at shutting down science, while Australia can contribute the police-state methods that we have been behind in.
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There were clearly reasonably good choices early on who've dropped out. Frankly, American's are spoiled for choice compared to Australia.
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I'm not sure Trump is the biggest moron although definitely a contender. Cruz wants to abolish the IRS. It is a little hard to have a government without taxes.
Ugh. I can't believe I'm defending Ted Cruz. Please understand, this isn't something I do often.
Cruz never proposed a government without taxes. He did say that taxes should be entirely flat, and so simple that every person could put their earnings on a postcard and send it in. No deductions, no write-offs, no capital gains, no AMT, no inheritance tax, nothing like that. Just income which gets deducted at 10% or something like that.
There would be -some- type of department that processes those cards, but sinc
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Oh, and I'm pretty sure that Cruz's fixation over Planned Parenthood recently was a Super Tuesday southern strategy to court the evangelical base which doesn't feel comfortable with Trump.
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Cruz is a genuine thumper.
You can tell: constant scowl, beady eyes.
Re:Better for everyone else (Score:5, Informative)
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The world is not a zero sum game. If Australians were rich and sensible they would buy and use more of your products. If they did that you would buy more of their products. Everybody would be happy. Only idiots think that "take take take" will make them richer (long term) and in the same way, if Australia goes crazy it means one less place to escape to when your country goes bad.
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The world is not a zero sum game. If Australians were rich and sensible they would buy and use more of your products.
I disagree: untill we learn to mine asteroids, it sort of is a zero-sum game. Currently we seem to be quite a lot in the red, and I for one agree with GP and salute Australia's effort of turning the world to a more sustainable pace of consumption.
Your profits be damned.
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On 1-10 year scale, it is not zero-sum because we create value by turning raw materials & energy into complicated products. Eventually, most raw materials run out, but it still won't be a zero-sum game.
On the long scale it's a negative-sum game, because we're spending natural capital that we can't replenish. For example, there is no topsoil factory.
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A well managed farm is a topsoil factory, actually.
A well-managed toilet is a topsoil factory. Sadly, we're short on both of those things.
Re:Better for everyone else (Score:5, Insightful)
Aldous Huxley nailed this syndrome well over half a century ago. He wrote that:
"One of the many reasons for the bewildering and tragic character of human existence is the fact that social organization is at once necessary and fatal. Men are forever creating such organizations for their own convenience and forever finding themselves the victims of their home-made monsters".
So people create governments to keep them safe and provide law and order. Gradually the governments grow, until they become massive cancerous organizations concerned mostly with their own survival - and further growth. Eventually they either kill the host, or have to be overthrown in bloody wars or revolutions.
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Yep. Because the one critical skill the human race has not mastered is keeping those with a thirst for power and control of others under control. If we could identify and them drown them at birth, this planet would be paradise.
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Did it ever occur to you that maybe people like tyranny? How else could there be so much of it?
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I think it's not so much that people like tyranny, as that we instinctively want a strong leader. We evolved from communal apes whose groups - varying in size from a single family to a clan of perhaps 200 - could only survive if they had strong, undisputed leadership. Such a leader (we might call him a "silverback", even though the phenomenon applies to chimps and many monkeys, too) may not always be right, but he must be decisive. A study of natural history programs, or books, or even a few visits to the Z
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Ironically, a very similar scheme has been evolved by armed forces through the years. When you join the army, navy or air force you undertake to obey orders unhesitatingly and unquestioningly, no matter what your personal opinion might be. Indeed, basic training usually aims to drive all personal opinion clean out of your mind. So, in a way, the armed forces recognize that when danger threatens we must return to "the way of the ape" and subordinate ourselves wholly for the good of the group.
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We evolved from communal apes whose groups ... a leader (we might call him a "silverback")... may not always be right, but he must be decisive. ... assert their authority in unfair ways. They randomly bite and strike others, apparently just to keep them apprised of who is the boss.
Trump makes so much more sense now!!
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As do many other bosses and leaders.
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No, people like rules. We bathe in rules the same as frogs live in water. Lawmaking is like applying heat to the water. Nice at first, then uncomfortable. The powerful are always testing the people, seeing what outrageous rulemaking they can get away with. It's up to us to push back. There's little choice but to boil or rebel.
But there is so much to oppose that it's difficult to keep up with it all. There's the TPP and copyright extremism, the War on Drugs and high prescription drug prices (which e
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No, people like rules. We bathe in rules the same as frogs live in water.
I think The Dark Knight movie is underrated in the writing department. I always liked this little speech from the Joker: "You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan". But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds!"
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Only for a minute or so, then they are free to reincarnate wherever they chose. And those not affected will not get controlled at all. Of course, there is no way to tell who suffers from this evil and who does not, so the whole idea is not practical.
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Name one post-war western democracy that has either "killed its host" or been violently overthrown.
It used to be true, but we have worked out how to make democracy stable now.
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The obvious (glaringly obvious, actually) example is Russia. Between 1991 and 2000, Russia as a nation was virtually annihilated. Then Putin took over and gradually began putting it back together.
You will no doubt object that it was the oligarchs, not the government, that nearly killed Russia in the 1990s. But they could not have done that without the active assistance of the pathetic Yeltsin government.
One day, the Russian government will no doubt start to grow too big. Because Russia is the largest nation
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I asked for an example of a post-war western government. You picked a government east of the Iron Curtain, emerging from the cold war into a broken democracy that hasn't had the time to mature like western European ones have.
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It used to be true, but we have worked out how to make democracy stable now.
Name a nation which is living sustainably, regardless of its government. And keep in mind that they're responsible for their commerce with other nations. Now, show us again on the map where the stable democracy is located.
If there's a nation on this planet which can be called stable, I don't know where it is. It's deck chairs all the way down.
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"The real cause is always resource conflict..."
Exactly as I said. The government keeps sweeping up more and more and more resources, until there is literally not enough left for those few people who are not part of the government or sheltered by its patronage.
Have you ever heard of a government that reduced its consumption of resources from any one year to the next? Ever?
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Unlikely, because it didn't exist at the time.
No, by "it" I don't mean Australia - any fule kno that it's existed for nearly 6,000 years.
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I'm not so sure that is true in today's global economy. When any country takes an economic hit it has a ripple effect.
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Keep going, Australia! Committing economic suicide makes it better for everyone else. Thanks for taking one for the team!
Hi, this is what happens when ideologically driven ultra conservatives get into power. Abbott and the Coalition were elected on a platform of hate and fear of the previous guys that centred around an anti-immigration stance. Basically what Trump is doing now but with less pizzazz, money and bad hairpieces.
Remember that as you see Trump's name on any voting card. Australia is your warning.
And you're quite right about the economic side effects but that is par for the course, the Coalition has been dedic
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Drugs? Don't take them and don't hang around those that do. Castle doctrine and stand your ground even means you can shoot the criminally bad ones.you fear.
Slavery? You mean work? Well yes, maybe more than la dolce vida Aussies used to have.
The white dentists and engineers are going abroad where the women are friendly.
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I seriously cannot tell whether you are really this extremely stupid or whether your posting is satiric.
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Idiot. Those guns are why our (un)civil serpents (wannabe masters) even slow down from imitating yours.
I... what, you really think this? All it means is that the SWAT guys wear a bit more body armor. That's IT.
Re: Better for everyone else (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm thinking about jumping ship for the US.
If you are looking for actual freedom, may I suggest (controversial!) that you consider Russia? Those of a certain age (especially aficionados of Tom Clancy) may scowl at the mere suggestion of "going over to the Reds". But if you are younger and reasonably open-minded, please look at the evidence. There is actually more freedom in Russia these days than anywhere in "the West". For instance, it may soon be one of the few places where you can be sure of getting healthy GM-free food.
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Unless you are gay, or you disagree with Putin on anything.
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I'm thinking about jumping ship for the US.
If you are looking for actual freedom, may I suggest (controversial!) that you consider Russia? Those of a certain age (especially aficionados of Tom Clancy) may scowl at the mere suggestion of "going over to the Reds". But if you are younger and reasonably open-minded, please look at the evidence. There is actually more freedom in Russia these days than anywhere in "the West". For instance, it may soon be one of the few places where you can be sure of getting healthy GM-free food.
Russia has freedom? Tell that to the members of Pussy Riot [wikipedia.org], who were jailed for protesting the Russian Orthodox Church. I'm sure they are feeling quite free.
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The Mafia only bothers you when you're really succesful, or when you (like Derek Sauer) control media that politicians actively dislike or want to control.
If you're unsuccessful, you just starve. It's a fine line between the two. Oh, and don't even think about migrating if you don't speak the language or are busy learning it - that goes for almost every country but Russia more than some others.
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Well, the USA is big into "local government" - typically, police, fire department, schools, etc are all managed and funded at the level of very small districts. For example, in Los Angeles, some of the best public schools in the USA are literally only a few miles from some of the worst public schools in the USA. And, of course, if you want to live in one of the best school districts in the USA then you're going to have to either live in a very small apartment or be very rich. So, yes, there are places in Rh
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So you're saying that Rhode Island or Massachusetts is more dangerous than New Mexico or Florida ?
Forgive me if I find that a little hard to believe on the face of it.
Have you actually been to New Mexico? It's an absolutely fantastic place.
Re:Better for everyone else (Score:5, Insightful)
Kinda.
Australia is the country whose leaders have, for the last thirty or so years, looked to the US and UK and decided "the problem these guys have is that they're just not going hard enough".
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Yeah, I've learned some things recently about Australia that kinda blew my mind. I had no idea it was such a conservative country. I certainly never got that impression from the Australians I've met.
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It took a decade or so longer for the RWNJ neoliberals to really get a foothold, but now they have Australia is spiralling the same drain as the rest of the western world.
The country was doomed when Howard was elected in '96. Up until that point, we had a chance.
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We hear all the time in the US about how we need to "harmonize our laws" with those of other countries, usually an excuse for creating more IP law. It's a cycle we see often: another country passes a law more extreme than ours. We have to "harmonize" or else... I'm not sure why else. We look bad? We don't want to be second? I'm not sure why, but then the more extreme version of the law is put into place in the US. Rinse and repeat.
What if... (Score:4, Insightful)
...this nightmare had unintended and unforeseen positive side-effects, with researchers setting off in entirely new fields ? Granted, this is just a desperate attempt at seeing at least some positivity in something very, very disheartening.
Re:What if... (Score:4, Informative)
I left Australia more than 6 years ago... (Score:2)
I left Australia more than 6 years ago... best decision I ever made, never going back.
Keep running the country into the ground, you're doing a great job.
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If you think that Scandinavia is really good (for immigrants), I can tell that you're not well informed. You may be white, with freckles and blond hair, and well educated, and still you'll be perceived as second class, as chauvinism and dissonance are on the rise in the former Utopialand. The recent influx of refugees is also hastening the process.
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The major cities in Australia often get ranked as best / most-livable in the world.
Because those liveability lists are largely based on surveying highly paid expatriates.
For normal people, they're basically useless.
Re:I left Australia more than 6 years ago... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I left Australia more than 6 years ago... (Score:5, Informative)
There are 24 million people in Australia. We take over 200,000 migrants (net) a year.
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats... [abs.gov.au]
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There are 24 million people in Australia. We take over 200,000 migrants (net) a year.
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats... [abs.gov.au]
It should be noted that the largest single entrant type was Australian Citizen (I.E. ex-pats returning back to Oz on a permanent basis) being 16% of all arrivals... Humanitarian visas make up only 1.2% of arrivals and 2.5% of net migration. It should also be noted that 52% of net migration are temporary visas, So over 120,000 are expected to leave Australia. This brings that number down quite a bit. The largest subgroup of permanent visas by net migration are still Kiwi's (New Zealanders) with subclass 444
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Australia has a small population and can't afford to subsidize the 30,000 plus refugees who pay smugglers to bring them to Australia. Settled refugees flock to the big cities, causing a massive increase in the cost of living. Worse, certain foreigners refuse to assimilate, creating an isolated community with a decreasing standard of living and increasing crime. Australia has just recovered from the damage caused by refugees settled here in the 1980s. A lot of people don't want to approach that hot potato ag
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Australia has just recovered from the damage caused by refugees settled here in the 1980s.
Australia never recovered from the refugees that settled there in the mid 1800's. Before that, the place was perfectly fine.
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Clowns in office (Score:5, Interesting)
This is just another example of how clueless the current Australian government is. It explains why there are now more New Zealanders moving from Australia to New Zealand, than from New Zealand to Australia. That hasn't been the case for decades!
I left four years ago, and haven't been back. If I were still there, I could be prosecuted for publishing in any of my research topics. Ridiculous.
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I didn't vote for these bastards last time and I have no intention of voting for them again. Unfortunatly as long as people continue to believe the propaganda and FUD spread across the front page of the Murdoch papers, people will continue to elect the Lieberal party and we will continue to get garbage laws.
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There is no nation in the world where the 'best and brightest' are in government. It's always where the brown noses land.
I know politicions are stupid but... (Score:2)
This country is seriously going down the gurgler fast
scienceparty.org.au (Score:2)
With the Greens stitching up a deal with our government to marginalise Ricky and friends, democracy is at a low ebb. I hope Di Natale realises that seats held by the likes of Day, Muir, Leyonhjelm, Madigan and former PUPs might well flow directly back to elect a 3rd liberal/national stooge in every state.
Check out the website above, I'll give serious consideration to putting a plucky kid like Dr Jansson first in senate voting.
Logically... (Score:2)
I suppose this means that people should simply stop doing science in Australia. After all, bearing in mind the possibility of retrospective criminalization, anything that scientists normally do could fall within this legislation. It's really not worth the risk.
Australian scientists and engineers should either emigrate to more tolerant and enlightened countries, or change career path.
The first rule of Aussie Science Club is... (Score:2)
...you do not talk about Aussie Science Club.
This is journalism?? (Score:4, Interesting)
This is one of the most biased headlines I've seen around recently. This isn't journalism, the headline is literally telling you what to think of the law instead of just stating the facts of it.
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That's not biased, nor does it tell you what to think about it.
The law IS draconian.
It IS taking effect soon.
The headline IS purely factual.
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This is one of the most biased headlines I've seen around recently. This isn't journalism, the headline is literally telling you what to think of the law instead of just stating the facts of it.
The headline correctly describes the law. It IS draconian.
You were expecting journalism? (Score:2)
This is Slashdot. We talk about news on other sites. It's not a journalistic endeavor. It's a discussion forum. Even so, every actual news outlet has its own bias, and the only way to get "unbiased" news is to play one against the next until you attain opposing viewpoints. Even then, you're sure to miss out on something. Like they say: your side, their side, and the truth.
Surprised as a resident (Score:2)
I hadn't read anything on this in the local press or seen anything on the news. I guess its time for me to do some reading! It wouldn't surprise me though since its big fine illegal to own an old out dated slot machine in my state. Just imagine if one of those one armed bandits were to get in the hands of the wrong people! (or scientists and engineers)
New template law (Score:2)
If you are all familiar with the current "War on sanity" you will all recognise that encryption is the next thing that is being targetted by power. You've seen Apple vs FBI and the rest of the bullshit attacks on encryption, well here comes the law.
I read DTCA when it was proposed and what concerned me most was it allows government to take control of your inventions and patents whilst turning encryption into a controlled munition. Therefore if you show someone how to use encryption you are an arms dealer
Time for /. to get a permit? (Score:2)
So, does this mean slashdot is now potentially breaking the law in Australia when it publishes any tech news? Maybe tech websites should geoblock Australia just in case?
"....and we LIKED it!" (Score:2)
Australian scientists and engineers face 10 years imprisonment for communicating without a government permit on biotech, robotics or manufacturing.
Biotech? It's about time. Sooner or later that newfangled witchery is going to give us all cancer, and then give that cancer AIDS. Lock it down, I say, the tighter the better.
Robotics? Crazy future murder machines, you mean. Gonna turn us all into batteries--I saw it in a movie. Lock it down, lock it down, lock it down.
Manufacturing? Uh... yeah. Can't have dangerous information about... um... manufacturing.... leaking out. It's a... menace?
No, never mind, forget it. I only support Orwellian repres
commentsubjectsaredumb (Score:2)
The future is here.
What, you thought it'd be heralded by jetpacks and teleporters?
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Please do not all flee to Europe when that happens, we need some time do deal with the last wave of refugees.
Re: The usual right wing idiocy (Score:3)
Yeah no one from the entertainment industry could ever be president.
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Much like the subsequent mistake.
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Yeah gridlock, it's our only hope.
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The way the US electoral system is set up, it doesn't matter how smart or dumb the voters are. They still only get to vote for a Republican or a Democrat, which are basically the two hands of the man behind the curtain. He's smiling broadly, although the curtain hides his face.
In the USA a smart person has essentially two choices.
1. Join the rich swindlers - if you have the swindling talent, the brass neck, and no conscience.
2. Emigrate.
Re: Austrailia was doomed (Score:5, Funny)
Legal gun ownership is why South Africa it's such a safe place to live.
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Legal gun ownership is why South Africa it's such a safe place to live.
South Africa has the amongst the lowest gun ownership numbers in the world, but amongst the highest homicide rates. I'm not sure what you are trying to say here -South Africa displayed that taking guns away from the population correlated with an increase in crime, not a decrease.
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"South Africa has the amongst the lowest gun ownership numbers in the world"
Of course you're completely wrong/lying: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
South Africa ranks 48 out of 175. Hardly "amongst the lowest".
The maximum is 112, the minimum is 0.1, SA has 12.7 - it certainly disproves the parent posters point about number of guns and crime levels.
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The mentioned list is:
Epidemiology, the almost total lack of advance medical containment for patients per state and reduction in agricultural inspections thanks free trade deals.
Biotechnology: quarantine laws are been removed to allow more international trade deals. No talk in the press, no repor
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I am try to understand "it was" or "is becoming" a prison colony? ;)
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I am try to understand "it was" or "is becoming" a prison colony? ;)
Everything old is new again.
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Gridlock is the best we can hope for.