Cocaine Use Can Now Be Tested In Fingerprints Using Ambient Mass Spectrometry 143
hypnosec writes: A novel technique of detecting cocaine abuse through a simple fingerprint has been developed by researchers from the UK and the Netherlands, paving the way for a secure, non-invasive drug detection method. The research, led by University of Surrey and published in the journal Analyst, demonstrates for the first time that cocaine can be detected by the excreted metabolites – benzoylecgonine and methylecgonine – resulting from abuse of the drug. These chemicals are found in fingerprint residue, which the researchers detect using analytical chemistry technique known as ambient mass spectrometry.
seems kinda pointless (Score:5, Insightful)
Im not condoning abuse, but im also not condoning the absurd spending that we as a planet have done "for the children"
Re:seems kinda pointless (Score:4, Funny)
It's only a matter of time now before 'Drugs' throws up the white flag.
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I'm not sure that we should rely on economic motivations to constrain abuses, for two reasons:
1- While a dragnet search might be impractical, an individual can still be targeted. For example: a corrupt authority has a cocaine-using informant hold a glass, which is then given to their target in a restaurant and taken as evidence afterwards. Bam, their target is on coke, liable for some of the most egregious penalities in our legal system.
2- While today a test might be beyond the reach of budgets, technology
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"I threw a McDonald's cup out of my car of my today. My fingerprints are in the system."
Let me guess: for littering?
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Its not proof that you were knowingly in possession of them. I believe that is the standards to meet too. For instance, i could slip something into your drink or food or have residue on something you are supposed to handle (money, car seat, whatever).
Testing positive is proof of nothing other than you tested positive for some reason.
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Keep in mind that your targeted individual can't be tested without a warrant, no matter what the coke-using informant does to the cup. They could probably get a warrant if the coke-using informant says the target is a junkie, but the test isn't actually proof of anything illegal (remember: using drugs is technically legal, it's possessing them before you've taken them that's the problem). They might be able to use to get a warrant for the target's house, and plant some drugs or something in the toilet; but
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If you think this is only going to be used with warrants you sure haven't been paying attention. Maybe, if we are lucky, in 10 or 15 years the US Supreme Court would set up sensible rules about warrant requirements for fingerprints, but I sure wouldn't bet on it.
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You're getting ahead of yourself.
The Courts currently require warrants for this kind of testing. They may in future change their minds, and say it's an extension of non-warrant-requiring fingerprint tests, but that ruling has not happened.
Moreover, as I pointed out (and you completely ignored), if the cops have a coke-using informant whose willing to fake evidence against you they really truly have no need for this test. They can get their warrant, plant their evidence, and fuck you over just based on the g
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These apartments are
http://www.nydailynews.com/new... [nydailynews.com]
You seems to misunderstand how police budgets work. They don't have the money to go after every crime, and they especially don't have money for crimes that no one cares about (black on black crime for example), But, if you somehow catch the attention of someone higher up in the department and they think they could get a career promotion from busting you, then you better believe they have hundreds of thousands at their disposal to catch you with.
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You forget for-profit civil forfeiture policing (Score:2)
You're forgetting the for-profit civil forfeiture power they have.
I guarantee you someone is working a spreadsheet figuring out if they buy a bunch of high tech scanners and can get more people with positive results they can seize a lot more stuff to pay for it.
Test positive? We'll take everything you have on you, your car and possibly your house and we can do it all now without any court approving it. You have to prove to us that it's not ill-gotten gains.
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I can't, but I can give you plenty of citations of civil asset forfeiture for even less illegal activity -- like driving on the highway and having a large amount of cash or just making a wrong turn. Many areas have been extremely aggressive to the point of insanity with civil forfeiture.
Existing drug tests now require more extensive court orders, but if you have basically a fingerprint scanner which can provide prima facie evidence of involvement in the cocaine business it's naive to believe this won't be
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That, and the other question I had -- are these metabolites *unique* to cocaine? Cuz if not, cue the false positives.
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The war on drugs is pointless. We went through this stupid shit with prohibition so why must we do it again?
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Meh (Score:1)
Congress will likely forbid this technology in the USA, lest it interfere with their favorite past time.
Sensitivity (Score:2)
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s/ that one. :-)/./
Re:Sensitivity (Score:4, Informative)
The metabolites are stable for a long time. They can transfer from paper money to your oil/sweat-laden fingerprints.
And it's usually $1s and $5s that test positive for cocaine metabolites, and cocaine itself.
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The metabolites are stable for a long time. They can transfer from paper money to your oil/sweat-laden fingerprints.
And it's usually $1s and $5s that test positive for cocaine metabolites, and cocaine itself.
So remember kids: Always wash your hands before and after handling paper money.
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Well since they're testing for the metabolites of the stuff, probably not unless you're in the habit of eating $100 bills.
Either that, or it would be easy enough for someone to frame you by making sure you touch those metabolites before getting tested.
"resulting from abuse of the drug" (Score:2)
So are we to assume consumption that's not abusive won't leave detectable metabolites? Or, are the researchers assuming all use is abuse? And, can you imagine how much this test costs?
Abuse cocaine? (Score:5, Insightful)
...cocaine can be detected by the excreted metabolites...resulting from abuse of the drug.
What about those that don't abuse cocaine, but use it responsibly? [www.meh.ro]
Politicians (Score:3)
So, when do we start testing every politician?
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We don't need to test the politicians, we need to test their money.
And once the money is laundered (in both senses of the word) you won't know.
You keep using that word (Score:2)
Somewhat interesting is the joint effort between a British and Dutch university team.
As it is legal in their country the Dutch had to do the sniffing and the Brits did the detection of the resulting metabolites?
It is good science, for sure.
For forensic evidence it is really good as this cannot come from just touching some US Dollar notes, you got to at least eat and digest them.
But this will only be interesting once it can detect if a person is under the infl
abuse? (Score:2)
What kind of abuse does this new method detect? Talkum substitute? Scrubbing powder? Disinfectant? Or rather its intended, designated illegal-but-certainly-non-abusive employment as the psychoactive, addictive drug it happens to be.
You can abuse a screwdriver to kill somebody; using a gun for the same purpose is still illegal in most circumstances, but it would not be "gun abuse".
ignatius
Limited (Score:2)
Note that this method does NOT work with a printed copy of the fingerprint, only the original fingerprint itself. That is because it detects chemicals which are sweated out onto the skin. and when the finger is pressed to the paper, the sweat is pressed onto the paper. The cocaine does NOT change the shape of the swirls; it only adds invisible chemicals to the sweat and ink on the paper.
Almost everything you tthink of as a fingerprint is actually a photographic copy of a fingerprint, and the method does
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excreted? (Score:2)
Don't sweat it (Score:1)
Don't sweat it. Seriously, don't. Nowadays they can tell all kinds of stuff from your sweat.
Wake up, the Drug War is Over (Score:2)
What a waste of time and money, jailing people $40,000/yr.
Do you want to pay for that?
And this is a good thing, why? (Score:2)
I see no reason why these researchers shouldn't be pilloried. Taking state money to improve methods of spying on the citizenry is not a positive act.
False Positives (Score:2)
Current detection systems already have enough false positives, eating some poppie seed muffins/bread, taking some ibuprofen, etc will trip some tests. This test sounds like it uses much smaller samples so I would imagine it would be far more susceptible. And as others have noted most money has trace amounts of various drugs (cocaine, heroin, morphine, etc) adding a completely innocent vector for false positives. The entire concept of trace drug testing is flawed, testing for significant recent usage MIGH
Cocaine is out (Score:2)
Almost all people that I know never touch coke any more. Also here seems to be out of favour with the current going to clubs generation/younger generation.
Fingerprints? That's nothing. (Score:2)
use vs abuse (Score:2)
How does the test distinguish between use and abuse? A certainly level of cocaine usage is arguably not abuse.
Cocaine and Money (Score:2)
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Your post:
Also to detect anyone who has any money, for confiscation of evidence of course
vs the summary
[...] by the excreted metabolites â" benzoylecgonine and methylecgonine â" resulting from abuse of the drug.
Sure. Unless simply handling money doesn't result in your body absorbing enough cocaine to synthesize and excrete " benzoylecgonine and methylecgonine".
In other words, you are probably entirely wrong.
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In other words, you are probably entirely wrong.
Under civil forfeiture, the GP might not be wrong. If drug use is detected, anything and everything can be taken, car, house, kids, all of it. Poof, up in smoke...
Re:All about tha Benjamins (Score:4, Informative)
Re:All about tha Benjamins (Score:5, Interesting)
it is worse than that. There are stories of people having their life savings taken even without being charged with a crime
Yeah but for some schizophrenic reason they still call it the "land of the free". "Denial" isn't just a river in Egypt you know.
Oh yeah and from the summary, this is ridiculous.
A novel technique of detecting cocaine abuse through a simple fingerprint has been developed by researchers from the UK and the Netherlands, paving the way for a secure, non-invasive drug detection method.
Yeah there's nothing invasive whatsoever about having your unique fingerprint on file, never to be deleted, and linked to the results of a drug test with an unspecified fase-positive rate and no appeals process. Really? The War on (some) Drugs is bullshit to begin with, and the fact that it provides so many excuses for shit like this is just one of many reasons to end it (other reasons being the freedom of consenting adults, and a notion of justice with this being a victimless crime).
Anybody who wants drugs can get them. They cannot even keep drugs out of PRISON. That's just a fact, even though the prison environment strongly favors the people trying to prohibit drugs. Oh and it's easier for teenagers to get illegal drugs than it is for them to get alcohol since drug dealers don't ask for ID. The War on (some non-patentable, not pushed by Big Pharma) Drugs is a failure. It's past time to stop this futile effort and move on to something that might work, such as regulated legal sales to adults. It only took about a decade for people to realize that alcohol prohibition was not going to work. Sure, the intelligent freethinkers knew that before it was made law, but listening to them is not popular. It's been close to a century since we tried prohibition of other drugs and it's a failure. It amazes me the way people will continue to support failing ideas in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Must be a religious deal?
It's not a failure, this WOsD (Score:3)
The War on (some non-patentable, not pushed by Big Pharma) Drugs is a failure.
Ah, but I disagree. Its purpose is manifold, but the two biggies are the erosion of the constitution to keep the prison/security state growing and fed, and the profits of Big Pharma.
This sad state of affairs has been slowly engineered over decades by some very wealthy and influential people as a goal to increase their power and wealth.
It's not a failure - it's a wild success. Sucks that you and I aren't on that list of winners though.
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For drug dealers, perhaps the status quo. But for drug users, perhaps we should focus on reform and helping them. Treat it as a sickness and not necessarily as a crime.
I'd be worried about false positives with this test.
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Even a stopped (analogue) clock is right twice a day.
Re:All about tha Benjamins (Score:5, Insightful)
The abuse of civil forfeiture is well documented; but this test isn't really relevant. If they intend to abuse civil forfeiture to take your stuff, this test isn't going to be their go-to.
And if they don't intend to abuse civil forfeiture, all this test does is establish evidence that you've taken cocaine.
If drug use is detected
They need evidence of drug related crimes. Technically, past drug *use* isn't even illegal.
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They need evidence of drug related crimes.
Ah well, no problem [nytimes.com], man
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But if they are willing to do that, then it really doesn't matter what this fingerprint test reveals, wouldn't you agree?
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Wrong. It's drug possession with intent to distribute that gets your stuff taken. Simply sweating microscopic amounts of chemicals doesn't qualify. Hell, unless you're out of jail on probation they can't do a fucking thing to you. It does qualify as a violation of probation in most instances.
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>implying these residual metabolites won't be found on dollar bills, which will easily transfer to your fingerprints as it is obviously soluble in the stuff that comprises a fingerprint.
You might want to think back to your basic chemistry before talking much further.
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It's pretty trivial to develop procedures to isolate what you might be transferring to your fingers from things you handle to what you are literally secreting from your fingers.
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Sure, but the question is will such procedures be used?
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Is it unlikely? Probably. Am I entirely wrong? No.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/s... [sciencedirect.com]
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You linked to an article about the detection of surface cocaine; which amounts to evidence that you have handled cocaine -- and the well known miscarriage of justice where they use evidence of surface cocaine as evidence of handling cocaine, when we know that traceable amounts of cocaine is on our currency.
This however is a test that establishes whether or not you USE cocaine. A little surface cocaine on your money isn't going to have you sweating out these chemicals in any significant quantity. So your the
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"Drugs and drug metabolites in hair were initially thought to originate exclusively from within the body, i.e. from ingestion.(8) and (9) Over the past 15 years studies implicate external contamination’s role in undermining the reliability of hair (10) and (11) as well as sweat patch (12) and (13) test results. Unless the origin and transfer modes are known unequivocally, few definite conclusions can be drawn from the presence of drugs and metabolites beyond “exposure.”
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Fair enough. I maintain that controlled tests can relatively easily determine if a chemical is being excreted vs simply being contaminated by external sources.
But it certainly means you can't draw any conclusions from a fingerprint obtained without those controls.
Still makes the test useful potentially useful for employment screening. Less so in other scenarios.
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Re:All about tha Benjamins (Score:5, Insightful)
Chemcial tests can't tell whether a person is absuing drugs, only if they are using them. (It is a prohibitionist fiction that the use of certain drugs is inherently abuse.)
If the only way you can tell whether someone is using drugs is through chemical tests, ipso facto it is not affecting their performance on the job.
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Non-use does imply they are not actively addicted though. So selecting non-users effectively screens the problem addicts out.
The fact that it screens out users who aren't addicts as well? I don't dispute it. But what employer cares? As long as they get enough good candidate applicants from the non-using pool to hire from, the fact that they screened some potentially good candidates from the using but not addicted category isn't much of a concern.
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It's a competitive disadvantage to needlessly remove a pool of employees.
It can be yes. I specifically said that as long there was sufficient suitable candidates after screening out users it wouldn't be a concern to the employer.
It goes without saying that if there aren't sufficient suitable candidates after screening that you'll need to go back and start looking at those screened candidates.
Your anecdote is an example of this happening; and I don't dispute that it happens; but that hardly makes it universally the case that what is true for one large organization and one (especi
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Sorry about the derogatory term but I've had too many people I know that turned into druggies. For every casual user it seems there are 5 or 6 that get consumed. The exception is marijuana where most people can function okay and only a smaller percentage become "pot heads."
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Does it establish that a drug user sweated on your money? If your money tests positive, then it should be seized, right?
Because they have evidence my money was handled by a sweaty drug USER? How is that even theoretically illegal? Why should it be seized?
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If it is drug-tainted, it's up to you to prove you didn't get it by selling drugs to a drug user.
Clearly its not tainted by any drugs you may have sold. You would have gotten the money before they took said drugs, and any residue from them taking the drugs would not appear on the money.
At worst they've proven you've transacted with a person who takes drugs. That's not even slightly illegal.
QED.
That said, yes, civil forfeiture is often abused. And as I've replied elsewhere in the thread a couple times -- if they are out to abuse civil forfeiture -- then it really doesn't matter what the outcome of this
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QED
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The only reason you would take cash regularly from a drug user is if you are supplying him with drugs.
Not really. Perhaps I work as an employee under the table and my boss is a drug user. OR his wife who picks it up at the bank is. Or the manager who actually hands me my pay. Or maybe its even the bank teller at the business counter at the bank.
In any case, it would take several separate tests over a period of weeks to establish that I take cash regularly from a drug user. Otherwise, the money could be from pretty much anything... maybe he bought my kids bunk bed frame at our last garage sale...
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simply handling money doesn't result in your body absorbing enough cocaine to synthesize and excrete " benzoylecgonine and methylecgonine".
As the limits of detection get smaller and smaller, the chances are that I could detect one molecule of almost anything on you. So how much is legally enough to charge you?
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simply handling money doesn't result in your body absorbing enough cocaine to synthesize and excrete " benzoylecgonine and methylecgonine".
As the limits of detection get smaller and smaller, the chances are that I could detect one molecule of almost anything on you. So how much is legally enough to charge you?
Let's hope it's a higher threshold than the false positive for opiates after eating poppy seed bagels! [usada.org]
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Your post:
Also to detect anyone who has any money, for confiscation of evidence of course
vs the summary
[...] by the excreted metabolites â" benzoylecgonine and methylecgonine â" resulting from abuse of the drug.
Sure. Unless simply handling money doesn't result in your body absorbing enough cocaine to synthesize and excrete " benzoylecgonine and methylecgonine".
In other words, you are probably entirely wrong.
Aha... but all it would take is ....
the soap in the bathroom of the police office to be contaminated
with benzoylecgonine and methylecgonine and then any perp
could be convicted by simply getting them to wash their hands.
The article implied that it could not be manipulated but there are some articles
that describe the synthesis of cocaine beginning with what the
article asserts are metabolites.
Further there are privacy issues. Should a crime scene have a lot of
fingerprints (a public or near public place) then
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Aha... but all it would take is ....
the soap in the bathroom of the police office to be contaminated
And all it takes to resolve that is using individually wrapped soap packets.
I don't disagree with the rest of your post vis a vis privacy, invasiveness, etc.
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Aha... but all it would take is ....
the soap in the bathroom of the police office to be contaminated
And all it takes to resolve that is using individually wrapped soap packets.
I don't disagree with the rest of your post vis a vis privacy, invasiveness, etc.
Individual packets establish a clear non random way to contaminate an individual's hands.
The key is who is in control of the soap and it is not the accused.
Adds an entire new perspective to "do not drop the soap".
New technology can be used for good or evil. Understanding it
only begins to lock it down. Voting machines --- too easy to hack
evidence that can be falsified or more troubling woven into an airtight
net that ensnares the innocent on demand.
TLAs that sit on flaws in common operating systems so they
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Unless simply handling money doesn't result in your body absorbing enough cocaine
It's a safe bet that whoever rubbed the cocaine on the money in the first place likely has enough of it in them to be rubbing the metabolites on the money too.
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Why is parent modded Off-Topic? It's spot-on.
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Because it's designed to strike fear into you by using a negative term.
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To set a theme. Never mind that the "War on Drugs" has not only been an abysmal failure for nearly a century and that it has excessive damage in addition. These people are evil, but they try to pretend they are the saviors of the human race, hence the abuse of language.