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The NSA Wants Tech Companies To Give It "Front Door" Access To Encrypted Data 212

An anonymous reader writes The National Security Agency is embroiled in a battle with tech companies over access to encrypted data that would allow it to spy (more easily) on millions of Americans and international citizens. Last month, companies like Google, Microsoft, and Apple urged the Obama administration to put an end to the NSA's bulk collection of metadata. "National Security Agency officials are considering a range of options to ensure their surveillance efforts aren't stymied by the growing use of encryption, particularly in smartphones. Key among the solutions, according to The Washington Post, might be a requirement that technology companies create a digital key that can open any locked device to obtain text messages or other content, but divide the key into pieces so no one group could use it without the cooperation of other parties."
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The NSA Wants Tech Companies To Give It "Front Door" Access To Encrypted Data

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  • Right up until... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 12, 2015 @03:20PM (#49458621)

    A government body gets the whole key and then has it stolen from them and we're all left with our trousers down in a changing room made of glass.

    No. If there is an EASY way to decrypt information, then that data is NOT SAFE and the encryption is useless.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 12, 2015 @04:01PM (#49458793)

      A government body gets the whole key and then has it stolen from them and we're all left with our trousers down in a changing room made of glass.

      No. If there is an EASY way to decrypt information, then that data is NOT SAFE and the encryption is useless.

      Yep. In the meantime, one of the few advantages US companies have - software and web services - will be made completely worthless. If I am a bank, healthcare company, or whatever (it really doesn't matter) , I demand my data be secure. An NSA back door, front door, trap door, barn door means that there is a built-in insecurity.

      Right now, I do not think any American made software is secure enough for my business. We have achieved a state where business and government concerns are in direct conflict.

      I think a lot of it has to do with this Big Data fad. They seem to think that the more data they have, the more computing power they have, and the less security we have allows them to "get their guy". We have an out of control security bureaucracy.

      But as the US slips more and more into a police state (I was just ordered last week to hand over my license at a road block - they were stopping everyone. Papers please! actually it was "hand it over, now!), I just have to wonder with our freedoms and privacy being eroded everyday, just what does the US stand for anymore?

      • Re:Right up until... (Score:5, Informative)

        by Wootery ( 1087023 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @05:01PM (#49459213)

        Apparently the Supreme Court decided that that would be unconstitutional, but it's Just Too Important(TM) so it's fine. [duicheckpoints.net]

        • Re:Right up until... (Score:5, Informative)

          by chihowa ( 366380 ) on Monday April 13, 2015 @08:58AM (#49462491)

          Wow, I just looked into that some more and it's pretty horrifying. The ruling was more than it being "Just Too Important(TM)", it was that it is too important to the State. That line of reasoning allows for just about any unconstitutional law to be upheld. Even the dissenting decisions were more concerned with the effectiveness of the checkpoints and considered the violation of the Fourth Amendment that they represent an accepted and foregone conclusion.

          The majority opinion from Rehnquist: "In sum, the balance of the State's interest in preventing drunken driving, the extent to which this system can reasonably be said to advance that interest, and the degree of intrusion upon individual motorists who are briefly stopped, weighs in favor of the state program. We therefore hold that it is consistent with the Fourth Amendment."

      • by Endymion ( 12816 ) <slashdot.org@NOSpaM.thoughtnoise.net> on Sunday April 12, 2015 @05:18PM (#49459299) Homepage Journal

        Well said.

        I find it unlikely that the NSA doesn't know how this will affect the US software/tech industry. Which means they are deliberatly trying to undermine an entire sector of the US economy. I call this treason. Many of these traitors took an oath to defend the constitution, yet they publicly announce how their desire to do the exact opposite.

        I know some of you are thinking that this is a crazy idea, because the US definition of trason is a difficult standard to meet due to the requirement to show that the traitor is "making war" against the countyr. Well, what else do you call the deliberate undermining of the most profitalbe sector in our economy? Modern weapons of war include a wide variety of tools, not just rifles and tanks. More importantly, this is exactly the kind of type of methods the CIA has used to "destabalize" other countries.

        • by ruir ( 2709173 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @05:30PM (#49459369)
          Microsoft was born due to Bills family being influential in washington, and has been in bed with the establishment ever since. In the past we also had strong hints they had a NSA backdoor. Cisco is also known to have backdoors. The industry has been undermining itself quite alone. Foreign people who use American software for industrial or political purposes are morons.
          • Idiots like you are everywhere.
            You think that America is the ONLY one that has loads of backdoors? You are a REAL idiot, or work for the Chinese gov.
    • Re:Right up until... (Score:5, Informative)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) * <mojo@@@world3...net> on Sunday April 12, 2015 @04:42PM (#49459069) Homepage Journal

      Even if it were somehow perfect, the NSA has proven itself to be untrustworthy. It apparently can't even police its own staff to stop them spying on their girlfriends and wives, let along stop them walking off with huge archives of information. If Snowden could do it then I think it's reasonable to strongly suspect that the Chinese, the French and anyone else interested in that stuff has infiltrated them too.

      • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 12, 2015 @05:18PM (#49459297)

        You can bet that if Snowden could get access then there are hundreds of NSA employees and contractors that are trading on this information. No domestic or foreign corporation or state wants the NSA to have unfettered access to their data like this, because such access will be and is being abused.

        Put it this way, say you are trying to get a contract where General Electric is a competitor. And someone in the NSA is tapping all of your salesmen's communications and documents and passing them to the GE's sales team....

        • It would be an interesting Big Data exercise to see trading data by certain federal government employees... Oh, I don't know - perhaps to see what the average gains were in a 12-month period compared to the gains of the average Joe in private industry?
    • A government body gets the whole key and then has it stolen from them and we're all left with our trousers down in a changing room made of glass.

      Or a hacker finds a way to break in without the "keys."

      It doesn't matter how many "pieces" you split the key up into if someone can just busy down the door and take whatever they want. Adding a back door to an encryption product is just asking for someone to break that back door down.

    • A government body gets the whole key and then has it stolen from them and we're all left with our trousers down in a changing room made of glass.

      No. If there is an EASY way to decrypt information, then that data is NOT SAFE and the encryption is useless.

      I think that they should get the encryption algorithm, but the actual key, speak to the individual party, and to a judge that would authorize a search warrant.
      Imagine that each subscriber gets to choose his encryption key, and a vigenere string to salt the encrypted result.

  • by mtrachtenberg ( 67780 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @03:21PM (#49458629) Homepage

    As you all know, our country is subject to terrible terrorist threats. It has come to the attention of your friends at the National Security Agency ("we put the security in the national") that terrorists have, under certain circumstances, used the United States Postal Service, United Parcel Service, and Federal Express in order to facilitate their terrorist doings. Therefore, we would appreciate it if, effective immediately, you stop sealing your parcels and envelopes, to make inspection easier.

    This is for your protection. Please don't object, or we'll have to illegally open your items and lie about it. Thank you.

    • .[Terrorists].. under certain circumstances, [have] used the United States Postal Service, United Parcel Service, and Federal Express in order to facilitate their terrorist doings.

      I don't see where this is true at all. According to numerous, recent news reports, the only thing that domestic terrorists have used to advance their cause has been the FBI.

      Let's get rid of them and see how things improve.

  • by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @03:21PM (#49458631)
    The fact that the NSA thinks it can achieve this shows how far our civil liberties have fallen.
    • What do you expect when people rather spend more time crying foul and protesting expensive internet and entertainment than something that affects their rights. Romans knew to let there be games, to keep the masses busy from free thinking.

      • The Roman Empire fell because they spread themselves too thin and outsourced their military to fill in the spots they couldn't cover.

        • by SuricouRaven ( 1897204 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @05:07PM (#49459247)

          They fell for a number of reasons - any one of which they could have shrugged off, but they all came at once. Rebellions from inside, invasions from the east, loyalty to the empire strained by imposed religious reformation to some strange new monotheistic cult and economic struggles as an empire built on constant expansion ran out of new land to invade for tribute - and then all that during a succession crisis which left the empire fragmented and unable to muster up a unified response. There's no one factor that lead to the collapse, and the collapse itsself was a slow process - you can't find a single year and declare the empire ceased to exist here.

          • You're right, it did. I named two specific reasons.

            Although admittedly, by not mentioning any others I implied they were not relevant.

          • They fell for a number of reasons - any one of which they could have shrugged off, but they all came at once.

            Well... "at once" over the course of several hundred years.

            loyalty to the empire strained by imposed religious reformation to some strange new monotheistic cult

            That strained the Senate far more than the general populace, who were quite happy accepting yet one more god.

            and then all that during a succession crisis which left the empire fragmented and unable to muster up a unified response.

            If you're going to say the succession crisis caused the collapse in the latter years of the empire, you need to explain why the succession crisis didn't cause the same problems during the Crisis of the Third Century.

            you can't find a single year and declare the empire ceased to exist here.

            September 4, 476 was the official end of the Western Roman Empire. The Eastern Roman Empire lasted 1,000 years after that, when

      • by rnturn ( 11092 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @11:15PM (#49460899)

        ``Romans knew to let there be games, to keep the masses busy from free thinking.''

        Yep. We have our reality TV, March Madness, the Super Bowl, the World Series (heck, professional sports in general), lotteries, celebrity worship, and so on and so on. There are already plenty of distractions to keep the American public from concentrating on, or even learning about, how their freedom has been taken away from them.

    • Only through inaction on the part of the citizenry. The fact that they have to ask for this shows we are achieving technical parity. It is up to the citizens to protect the citizens, and we can do exactly that.

      Ignoring the question of whether they should be reading the mail (that's another topic, don't dilute this thread), we have effectively been sending post cards instead of envelopes.

      We would not have switched to encryption everywhere without this, so it's a problem of their own making. And now it's a

    • I told all you bitches! PRISM compliant hardware; the velvet gloves come off the feds. In fact, they might audit your data just so all you fucking sheep can get used to the "new normal" of security.

  • by Jaywalk ( 94910 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @03:21PM (#49458633) Homepage
    Wow. And how long do they think their magical key will remain secret? If a single key can open all the doors, finding that key will become more important and the resourced dedicated to discovering it will be increased. The secrets that are being protected are not only -- or even primarily -- the secrets of criminals. There are millions of bank accounts and private medical records along with political dissidents.

    Every weakening of security aids not only law enforcements but criminals as well.
    • If a single key can open all the doors

      Not that it makes much difference to the substance of your point, but I don't think anyone's proposing literally a single key. It could (hypothetically, naively) be one split key per company, or per product, or batch of a product, or maybe even one split key per "real" key.

      I might be missing something which rules out any or all of those possibilities, though.

    • by R3d M3rcury ( 871886 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @06:14PM (#49459591) Journal

      ...and if you only have part of the key, why should you devote resources to protecting it? Let the other guy worry about that.

      Kind of like immunization...

  • by DivineKnight ( 3763507 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @03:21PM (#49458635)

    When the NSA says these kinds of things, it's like they are saying that they are immune to being cracked.

    • by Scutter ( 18425 )

      When the NSA says these kinds of things, it's like they're saying something that they know is completely ridiculous to turn your attention away from something far more insidious that they're up to.

  • Ok. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 12, 2015 @03:21PM (#49458637)

    While we're asking for stuff we want, I want one billion dollars a year of NSA funding redirected to me. I'll spend it all on providing college scholarships.

    I believe my idea is better than theirs: educated, autonomous individuals make for a better society than fear and authoritarianism. Who's with me?

  • one key, eh? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    One (partitioned) Key to rule them all, One Key to find them,
    One Key to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

    need anyone say more?

    • One (partitioned) Key to rule them all, One Key to find them,
      One Key to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

      need anyone say more?

      At least in the Tolkien fantasies we got orcs, wizards, castles and beautiful elvish women. Here we just get a bunch of overweight, ugly guys, some half assed Star Trek furniture and an ugly old building from the 1960's.

      No key until they at they at least update their image to include a smoking volcano.

  • by BitterOak ( 537666 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @03:25PM (#49458657)
    This story was posted yesterday. http://it.slashdot.org/story/1... [slashdot.org]
  • ..and these separate entities will be compelled to comply with an NSL, right? Fuck that bullshit. The problem here is statist/authoritarian politics not technology.

    • Even if it's completely illegal for the NSA to get the other pieces, they'll try. They'll hack in, or they'll snoop into the lives of everyone with access to find something they can use for blackmail...

      Which is why, if this insane policy is enacted, there needs to be another requirement: if the NSA tries to get the other pieces, the director of the NSA gets executed on live TV for treason. So does every official or agent involved in the operation. Same goes for every other government agency.

      Really, though.
      • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        Now is it the NSA that wants this stuff or is it the corporate masters of the politicians who appoint corporate stooges to run those three letter organisations. Don't like you politics, they want to be able to totally fucking destroy you, make you a non person. Deny all you citizen rights, make it impossible for you to travel, ensure you have only the most menial degrading employment, and if necessary silence you and using extremely belligerent and violent law enforcement who will kill during the arrest (n

  • by Sean ( 422 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @03:29PM (#49458669)

    Such backdoors aren't enforceable in open source projects. If this comes to pass then free software will have a great competitive advantage.

    • If there is a legal requirement, then it is absolutely enforcable against open source software. If the NSA managed to get laws passed in their favour (which I very much doubt), and for example Apple had to hand over some encryption keys, and all the lawyers they could hire cannot prevent that, what kind of idiot would believe that an open source project would be exempt?
      • Open source projects are very geographically mobile. New forks would rapidly appear, managed outside of the US.

    • by Kjella ( 173770 )

      Until they pass a law demanding that all encryption software must be able to comply with lawful warrants to decrypt the contents and outlaws the rest, making it a crime by iteself. Or just create some procedural rules to keep you in contempt of court until you decrypt it. You really think they're going to clamp down on all proprietary software and totally ignore open source just like that? I admire your optimism but if they can make this happen open source encryption will be on death row.

      • by Sean ( 422 )

        I doubt it's actually possible to enforce encryption backdoors beyond a few major vendors. The result would be similar to exiting attempts to prohibit reverse engineering. It's impossible to outlaw debuggers, disassemblers, logic analyzers, and similar tools. It's like outlawing radios that can tune in to any station. It's been done, but it's not all that effective.

        Even if all software from major vendors like Microsoft, Apple, and Google implemented protocols with backdoors, correct implementations of the u

        • I doubt it's actually possible to enforce encryption backdoors beyond a few major vendors. The result would be similar to exiting attempts to prohibit reverse engineering. It's impossible to outlaw debuggers, disassemblers, logic analyzers, and similar tools. It's like outlawing radios that can tune in to any station. It's been done, but it's not all that effective.

          It's not a backdoor that they want, it's a key to the front door :-(

          Here's what they can do: Download an open source package. Send an encrypted email to themselves. Check that they can decrypt it with keys supplied by the software. If not, use all the force that the US police can muster to stamp the supplier out of existence.

    • Also, great for the economy of everywhere but USA. It's an incentive to not have a presence in the country to avoid such laws.

    • Until free software gets outlawed for not having them or they make criminals out of people who disable the back doors.

      I have no faith the something like that would be impossible to happen.

    • "free software will have a great competitive advantage."

      There's not even motivation to get enough labor to look for security bugs in free software, let alone for deliberate misfeatures. To get it done you'll have to pay someone to do it, and then you'll have a competitive advantage if you have done it with non-free software.

  • by Sprite_tm ( 1094071 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @03:37PM (#49458709)

    The designers of the Clipper chip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip) had just about the same method in mind: encryption for the users, with an independent organization knowing the master keys and being able to hand over session keys to decode communications to government institutions. It was actually the reason why PGP etc were invented.

    We have a similar situation here: the gov wants to have the keys to encrypted machines. Theoretically, the same arguments can be brought up again: it's bad because the keys may leak, it weakens the encryption because there's another set of keys that can be bruteforced or found in a smarter way, but it's also pretty ineffective: the phones that allow people messing around in their systems (Jolla, Ubuntu phones, rooted Androids) will just have third-party, non-gov-approved encryption in them and criminals (and people not really comfortable with NSA snooping) will subsequently use these.

    • the phones that allow people messing around in their systems (Jolla, Ubuntu phones, rooted Androids) will just have third-party, non-gov-approved encryption in them and criminals (and people not really comfortable with NSA snooping) will subsequently use these.

      They'll prohibit and penalize that by restricting such tools, the same way they did with "circumvention tools" in the DMCA. Banks and those with "legitimate" needs excepted, of course.

  • by joh ( 27088 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @03:39PM (#49458719)

    If one the parties is the user and he gets to keep HIS part of the key, so that nobody can decrypt his data without him giving up his key, fine.

    Would miss the point though...

  • Well, this scheme would effectively make it impossible for any party to complete the key. As each organization embarks on the quest to collect the shattered fragments of the key they will all invariably get stuck at the Water Temple and just give up.

  • by Hizonner ( 38491 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @03:53PM (#49458751)

    There's no "centuries-old social compact" or whatthefuck ever, let alone one around warrants.

    • There's no problem getting data access using warrants, no matter how much encryption you have. It's just that you have to get the data from the person who owns them, rather than sneaking through a third party. If the owner doesn't cooperate, you have a process to compel them. You know, just like warrants and other court orders have worked for hundreds of years. It's really unprecedented to be able to get access to somebody's personal papers without that person even knowing it.
    • There's no long-established ability to get access to people's ephemeral communications without physically following them around. That wasn't even possible until the telephone came along. For hundreds of years before that, you had to actually engage and gain people's individual confidence to spy on them.
    • Rogers' agency (the NSA) has never used warrants, not ever. It was given warrantless powers it probably should not have been given, arguably illegally because you can't do it under the constitution. It has then repeatedly gone beyond those already excessive powers over the entire course of its existence. It takes a lot of gall for somebody like Rogers to whine about lawful authority to do anything, let alone about warrants.

    What a sack of shit.

    And, yeah, the idea that you're going to have this magic key that only good guys can use is also technically and operationally impossible... as every single person in the NSA or anywhere else in the federal intelligence or law enforcement agencies knows damned well. I assume they want to create it so that they can steal it and use it for mass attacks. If they don't want me to believe that, well, they need to overcome their decades-long pattern of established behavior.

  • Key fragments? Can we have that with a bow tie and a nice NIST endorsement?

    When you break your word, you break something that can not be mended.

    Even if you wear the regal black cloak of the Central Malfeasance Agency, when you're found out, it can and will be held against you.

    Ho hum. This is clipper chip [wikipedia.org] redux.

    In 1997, a group of leading cryptographers published a paper, "The Risks of Key Recovery, Key Escrow, and Trusted Third-Party Encryption," analyzing the architectural vulnerabilities of implementing

  • their profiled "terrorists" are usually from societies that are accustomed to communicating covertly without any electronic means.

    i'm not an expert in terrorism or communication, but i was a punk kid once that did bad things. even i was smart enough to know that if you were planning something big and illegal, you didn't go calling people about it, or writing it down.

    do they really think that someone is going to send an email or text message saying "hit the big red button 12:30 next tuesday"? or that someo

    • by Livius ( 318358 )

      someone will save a map to a warehouse of deadly weapons in "the cloud" and name it "weaponsmap.jpg"?

      of course they don't.

      Of course they will.

      That's what the decoy map is for.

  • We'll give the NSA expedient access to our encrypted data...

    When they'll confess to all possible breaches of our Constitution, and submit to the death penalty for any actual breaches.

    Have we got a deal, NSA? Oh, why not? You fucking traitors.

  • What must life be like for crypto experts at the NSA? I assume that they are smart people, who must surely realize what a boneheaded idea this is. Imagine working somewhere where your most senior bosses go around publicly showing off their lack of knowledge.
    • Or maybe they already have ways into just about everything, and this doomed request is just to create the false impression they need it?

  • Dear NSA,

    I would love to design the phone that you are asking for. please pay the sum of $USD 30 million into my bank account and i will organise it straight away. also, please sign a contract that you will subsidise the cost of every single phone sold because in order to add the extra encryption that you are expecting it will push up the price, and in a competitive business world nobody would buy it without subsidies.

    I look forward to hearing from you shortly.

    Signed, Luke Leighton
    (Libre and FSF-Endorseab

    • Existing phones have the processing power to do end to end encryption without any new hardware. You'll need to audit or re-write your entire software stack (including baseband) to keep out back doors of course, and that will be expensive. But unit cost increase will still be a few dollars per phone, not enough to make them unsellable.
  • Old German proverb (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Sunday April 12, 2015 @05:13PM (#49459277)

    Ist der Ruf erst mal ruiniert, lebt sich's völlig ungeniert.

    It loses a bit in translation, but essentially the meaning is "once your reputation is ruined, you can as well stop having any shame".

  • Dear NSA, privacy arguments aside: You guys have the specific job of making codes and breaking codes.

    If we do it for you, then don't expect us to pay you as much as we do anymore.

    Do your own damn homework same as everyone else.

  • So they are building insanely large data centers.... to collect metadata.

    I swear that doesn't add up.

  • ...the founding fathers of this country outlawed the burning of slips of paper so the citizenry couldn't hide information from the government. This is just the 21st century equivalent so what's the big deal?

  • one of those parties is the customer, though

  • ..that they are totally honest and competent, and that weakening security will only hurt the bad guys

    In the real world, government security is done by people who actually want to work for the government..if you're at the bottom of the technological barrel..hey, a job is a job..and government jobs have job security. Yeah, I have to take a drug test..but that's OK..I don't use illegal drugs (within the testing window)

    If you are on the other side of the fence..all that matters is technical competence

    You might

  • by plsuh ( 129598 ) <plsuh AT goodeast DOT com> on Sunday April 12, 2015 @06:26PM (#49459641) Homepage

    The US government has lost sight of the larger issue here. The tail (NSA and law enforcement) is wagging the dog.

    The NSA and law enforcement agencies want to be able to intercept anything, since it makes their jobs easier. However, this runs counter to the larger national interest of the United States.

    Which country has the highest level of connectedness and dependence on the Internet? Which country would be worst hurt if a sophisticated attacker was able to penetrate and conduct malicious actions using the systems connected to the Internet? The US, that's who. It is by far in the US's overall national interest to properly secure the Internet and communications infrastructure. Eavesdropping on everyone else is a secondary benefit, in comparison.

    The proper role of the President and the Attorney General is to separate the desire of the NSA and law enforcement to make their jobs easier from the greater benefit to the country as a whole. They need to tell the ambitious underlings "NO" in unequivocal terms, then bitch slap them if they keep whining about it.

    --Paul

  • Could you imagine if the NSA actually was permitted to do this? The moment something like this came to be true, every tech company cooperating would simply go out of business. Who would buy anything with a backdoor built into it? I wouldn't.

    Shut down the NSA, to even suggest this is economic armageddon. I don't even need to go anywhere near the freedom and privacy aspects of this, I can appeal the capitalists, this is just bad for business.

  • ...as long as they're cool with all of our multinational tech companies doing the same favor for the Chinese government. I mean, laws are laws, right?
  • Did we all forget Clinton and their Clipper initiative? Or has it just become easier to understand for Joe Sixpack?

  • The only trustworthy solution is one based on end to end encryption. The tech companies have nothing but encrypted content to move around. They have nothing to give the NSA that they could use.

  • Much as we dislike the NSA I don't think anyone would argue that they are stupid. Morally bankrupt, ethically challenged, constitutionally wrong - yes, but stupid - no. Therefore the NSA clearly knows that this is a stupid idea and will never work and will never be implemented. I have to believe this is a negotiating ploy (ask for something totally outrageous so that you can be bargained down to something merely obnoxious - which is what you wanted all along).

    That being the case then this must be their tota

  • "Not without a warrant, motherfucker."

    -jcr

  • by LordWabbit2 ( 2440804 ) on Monday April 13, 2015 @06:23AM (#49461775)
    This is moronic, if this is put in place only Americans will use American software (and then only some of them). NO other country is going to voluntarily use software they know has a "front door" regardless of all the "good intentions" promised by splitting the key up. May as well shoot Microsoft in the foot.
    • May as well shoot Microsoft in the foot.

      You shouldn't argue against a thing by pointing out a positive result of it.

  • On the one side, the NSA is collecting data on American's using secret orders with a rubber duck stamp that has a pirate patch on its eye. On the other side we have Russia owned by a kleptocracy and threats of nuclear war if anyone interferes with their invasion plans.
    Hmm,....

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