Student Expelled From Indiana High School For Tweeting Profanity 349
First time accepted submitter OopsIDied writes with the story that high-school senior Austin Carroll of Garrett, Indiana was recently expelled after tweeting profanity from his own home, writing "Supposedly the school has a system which tracks students' social networks after they have logged in at school. Although the tweet was done at home at 2 AM, the school decided that such behavior was unacceptable and that the most fitting punishment was expulsion. He did use a school computer, but it was set up to use the school network even when used outside the school because the school claimed the tweet was associated with the school's IP address." As usual, TechDirt has some biting commentary about the expulsion. But Hey, at least they didn't throw him in jail.
It's their network (Score:3, Insightful)
They can enforce the rules as they wish (just like employers). Student should have used a private ISP, instead of the government-owned school network.
High school student != Expert (Score:5, Insightful)
They can enforce the rules as they wish (just like employers). Student should have used a private ISP, instead of the government-owned school network.
Perhaps. But should a high school student have been expected to know this?
Maybe they should have opted for jailing him for life. After all, isn't tweeting "fuck" an incitement to the masses to commit rape?
Re:High school student != Expert (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes a student should know not to use profanity on the school network, just as he knows not to use it in the school building. (IMHO)
Re:High school student != Expert (Score:5, Insightful)
You are sidestepping the real question though. He should know not to use it on the school network (whatever profanity is.... silly concept anyway) but... is it right to expect him to know that he is, indeed, on the school network vs home. Clearly he has a home internet connection.
I mean, for me with work, its easy. I am either connected to the VPN or not, and if I am, then its all through their netowork... but I do this shit for a living...I am not even sure if people outside of the IT department understand this.... but... a HS kid is expected to?
Contact them if you are outraged (Score:5, Informative)
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Principle's office? Well, only if you have any interest in this.
I believe you tried to make a joke involving something that earns interest, but that too is "principal". Unless your misuse of principle/principal was part of a double joke...
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.I am not even sure if people outside of the IT department understand this.... but... a HS kid is expected to?
I'd wager a HS student is *more* likely to understand it then the average non-IT adult.
Re:High school student != Expert (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:High school student != Expert (Score:5, Informative)
Re:High school student != Expert (Score:5, Insightful)
FWIW The summary says it was a school issued laptop. The article doesn't specify, but as you quoted implies that it was a personal computer. Obviously the summary could very well be wrong, but it's also possible that the student is confused about who owns the computer and the article wasn't thorough enough to elaborate.
Also, the guy's tweet was hardly all that offensive. It uses a naughty word for sure. But in the context of describing how it can be used for various parts of speech, not as a swear word directed at somebody or something. Either this is another zero tolerance policy gone out of control, or this kid has other issues and the school needed a reason to expel him.
Re:High school student != Expert (Score:5, Insightful)
not as a swear word directed at somebody or something.
I don't really care if it was directed at someone. What happened? Why do some people seem to have this mentality that someone getting offended will bring about the apocalypse?
Re:High school student != Expert (Score:4, Funny)
Why do some people seem to have this mentality that someone getting offended will bring about the apocalypse?
Lo it is written, that the first seal shall break when some-random-school-marm-in-Minnesota hears the harsh sound of a cuss word uttered across the internet. On that day the skys shall darken with Orrlys and the deeps shall spill forth their Trolls. Also, 4chan and Reddit will merge.
Pray for the hour of thy death and be spared this dread vision.
-GiH
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Re:High school student != Expert (Score:5, Interesting)
Going to need to choose a school for my kid in a few years, would rather he not grow up being taught that a police state is acceptable.
Re:High school student != Expert (Score:5, Interesting)
It is iffy. This may need more research than just the initial summary and article. From reading comments on the other sites, yet to see confirmation, there are three conflicting versions of the story:
1) Tweeted from home using own computer.
2) Tweeted from home, using school computer.
3) Tweeted from home, using own computer. Accessed Twitter from school where the school then began inspecting his Twitter account.
Two and three are the most logical with the information given. It would explain the school network part of the story. One leaves me asking why the school is forcing student home computers to use their VPN constantly.
http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/High-School-Senior-Expelled-For-Tweeting-Profanity---144022966.html [indianasnewscenter.com] implies that Three is the case. Tweeted from home, home network, visited Twitter from school so the school detection software picked it up. Punished for it.
Re:High school student != Expert (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if the AUP forbids it, who cares? In what fucked-up world could "a system which tracks students' social networks after they have logged in at school" even arguably be a responsible use funds earmarked for education?
Also, given that the student's transgression required special technological measures merely to detect, how could it possibly be argued that it fucked with the school's educational mission to a degree that merits such a "last resort" as expulsion?
Then again, while it's hard to imagine this being the idea, "don't trust technology you don't control, and don't enter into agreements you don't understand, because they'll be used to fuck you in the end" might be a more useful lesson than those he's missing.
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In my HS, if they booted everyone who swore, it would have been one damn, fucking, empty building.
Re:High school student != Expert (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes a student should know not to use profanity on the school network, just as he knows not to use it in the school building. (IMHO)
Did you RTFA? He connected to his home ISP, but the computer automatically connected him to the school's VPN. So, at the risk of repeating myself, should a high school student have been expected to know/spot this?
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No I RTFS - "He did use a school computer".
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At 2:30 in the morning. So, he was actually expelled for unprovable breaking and entering.
The VPN theory is the only one that makes any damn sense. And that's unfortunate. Why would you set up a VPN that effectively takes over your computer? Or alternately, if you deliberately choose to VPN to the school network at 2:30 AM, why would you even fantasizes that "I did it from home" would even matter? If you VPN in, you're now a part of the school network and you choose to extend their rules to your computer fo
Re:High school student != Expert (Score:5, Interesting)
Why would you set up a VPN that effectively takes over your computer?
To make sure that any traffic sent to or from said computer routes through your network so that you can monitor it.
Now, I can understand this on a certain level (e.g. to prevent students from visiting porn sites or spam/virus sites). But it seems what's going on in this case is that the school is looking at packets or URLs to link students to social networking accounts, and then monitoring those accounts for illicit content. That's a bit more intrusive. Of course, there is plenty of precedent for restricting students rights both on and off campus, but actively monitoring (or logging) students "private" online communication seems a bit much. What's their policy on data retention? Do they stop monitoring Twitter accounts when the student graduates?
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I agree with your first sentence. Not sure about the rest.... it was too much to read.
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If I bring my work laptop home, I sure as hell am not going to do anything on it that I wouldn't do at work. I know it doesn't automatically VPN into work, but it's still my work computer and should be used for work purposes. If the student has a school computer that should only be used for school purposes, that is fine. I still think the punishment for cussing is ludicrous.
Re:High school student != Expert (Score:5, Funny)
Yes a student should know not to use profanity on the school network, just as he knows not to use it in the school building. (IMHO)
Because, heretofore, using four letter words at school was an unheard of atrocity that would have surprised even dear old mom, right?
Come on. I think I learned the f-bomb well before second grade. He wasn't selling drugs, carrying weapons, threatening a teacher, or being a repeat offender of general delinquency. He didn't even do it at school so you can't argue he was disrupting class. Expulsion is way over the top, this is worth a letter home to mom and dad, with the exact text of his message included.
The most extreme, maybe they should sue him for stealing George Carlin's material.
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Re:It's their network (Score:5, Funny)
He fucking did fucking use his fucking home network as you would fucking know if you had just fucking read the fucking article about his fucking post containing fucking lots of use of the fucking word fucking.
First amendment indeed.
Re:It's their network (Score:5, Funny)
I fucking agree with this comment 100 fucking %.
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What can I say? My fucking work computer if fucking blocked from the fucking article. ;-)
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their network or not it's still illegal interception of communications. same goes for employers by the way even if you fat bastards at IT-support don't seem to know it since it would make your job a hassle.
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B) That may be the case, but it may also be the case that the government cannot give preferential treatment (free/subsidized computer rental) to those who speak using certain words verus those who speak using other words, when all words constitute protected speech. (Which I understand may be
Re:It's their network (Score:4, Insightful)
He says he tweeted on "his own computer", and it was 2am so it seems likely it would have been on the school's network.
What it sounds like is he logged into his twitter account later when he was on the school network. The school scanned his twitter feed and found his astute observation about the word fuck.
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I wonder if he watched a recital of Evidently Chickentown [youtube.com]? It's a song/poem about living in deprivation in the council estates (projects) of the UK.
The fucking cops are fucking keen
To fucking keep it fucking clean
The fucking chief's a fucking swine
Who fucking draws a fucking line
At fucking fun and fucking games
The fucking kids he fucking blames
Are nowehere to be fucking found
Anywhere in Chickentown
The fucking scene is fucking sad
The fucking news is fucking bad
The fucking weed is fucking turf
The fucking spee
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For a minute there, I thought it was a Tim Minchin song. (:
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They can enforce the rules as they wish (just like employers). Student should have used a private ISP, instead of the government-owned school network.
Three things:
1) He did not use the Schools network, he was at home and on his own computer. The school has a system that audits a student's Twitter Account any time they log in at the school. He made the Tweet at 2 AM from home. Then next day when he logged in to twitter at home, the school's system checked the account, found a tweet in it that it didnt like, and set off the alarms.
2)This was settled in the 1969 decision Tinker v. Des Moines, when some kids were suspend for wearing black armbands to
Step up that Expulsion (Score:5, Informative)
No... (Score:5, Insightful)
Using profanity in the halls, cafeteria, and buses is safe, because such incidents are not visible to parents, school board members, or the general public.
Twitter, however, is visible to the whole world, so anything undesirable must be just as visibly punished.
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Re:No... (Score:5, Insightful)
Twitter, however, is visible to the whole world, so anything undesirable must be just as visibly punished.
Correct - so when did the punishment for swearing become expulsion? They are a school after all - don't they have a duty to educate? Require a public apology (via the same medium) and a publicly visible punishment like picking up litter from the school grounds. That sends the message, both to the pupil and the student body, that swearing is not tolerated and that rules are enforced. Expelling him for a minor offence like this sends the message that the school is vindictive and unreasonable and it completely undermines any moral authority they have.
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this gives me an idea for a device that would use speech recognition to detect profanities.
it could be an android pda in a box, rigged with a flashing light and a siren that would go off if they detected a profanity.
then the school would need those every 5 meters. think of the MONEY.. err children.
Re:Step up that Expulsion (Score:5, Funny)
this gives me an idea for a device that would use speech recognition to detect profanities. it could be an android pda in a box, rigged with a flashing light and a siren that would go off if they detected a profanity.
John Spartan, you are fined five credits for repeated violations of the verbal morality statute.
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Perfect and we all know how stupid (but fun) that was in the movie.
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Demolition Man?
Re:Step up that Expulsion (Score:5, Interesting)
Twitter and facebook are not really private (unless you specifically block viewing by strangers). It's a public venue and what you post can be seen by your school (as this article shows). Or google.
BTW the school that was spying on students stripping naked in their bedrooms through laptop cameras never got punished. Nor the school with cameras in the boys/girls shower rooms. Hiring the ACLU to sue this school is like a waste; looking at public tweets is a far lesser crime.
On the fence on this. (Score:2)
However, if he used the school's network/computer to do such, I can kind of see some punishment is appropriate.
I think expulsion was a bit much, some detention would have been just fine, but ahh well.
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Well if the school ran a network connection to his house that he used at 2:30 AM, sure.
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He did use a school computer, but it was set up to use the school network even when used outside the school.
I'm used to pointing people to quotes from the article linked, but this is the first time I've had to point to damn summary.
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Garrett officials say it came from a school-owned laptop because the tweets came from an IP address on the school’s network, the Journal Gazette says.
http://stateimpact.npr.org/indiana/2012/03/29/how-one-tweet-got-a-high-school-student-expelled/ [npr.org]
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So. It has come to this.
For the first time in Slashdot history, the summary is misleading.
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They are punishing them because they wrote on somebody else's bathroom wall with there permission, but used a tool provided by the school. They did it on there own time. I would have to side with it's unreasonable for the school to punish a student for what they do away from school, as that's undermining the role of the parent and they do not show that it was causing a disruption in the school. Last I checked profanity was not illegal and generally protected speech. Past that expulsion is a HUGE amount
Re:On the fence on this. (Score:4, Informative)
Last I checked profanity was not illegal and generally protected speech.
You surrender a lot of rights when you enter a school. He was only there virtually, but he was using the school's network none the less.
On top of that, yes you have free speech, but there are still consequences. I can't run into a crowded theater and yell "FIRE" and expect to get away scott free.
schools are not the place for indoctrination of any sort
You're kidding, right? The whole point of the American school is to turn you into a boring, uncreative, mindless drone.
If that doesn't qualify as indoctrination, what does? |:
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Using a expletive as a means of emphasis is far far away from crying fire. I think my point is were loosing more and more rights etc when you enter a public school, and that's inherently broken since the majority are forced to send there children there. Again with indoctrination it's not supposed to be the reason for them existing and people need to push that to not happen.
Personally I've chosen private school for my child, good contracts and reasonable staff seem to make for better schooling. Perhaps it'
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It's also much easier to ignore on Twitter. You can close the webpage much more quickly and easily than you can get away from someone in a crowded hallway.
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Like I said, detention would have been more appropriate.
I had many teachers in my high school who would pass out such if they caught you using profanity in the halls/during class.
The only reason I remember that is because I got hit with it a few times.
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Very much this.
Firstly, the kid posted from 2am at home. That's hardly "on school time." I'm an aerospace engineer, and there are people with whom I work that have trouble distinguishing home networks from VPNs. Expecting a high school kid to fully grasp that concept is ridiculous.
But aside from all that, the punishment does not fit the crime. The kid cussed. Kids do that all the time, and they usually get detention. I could even see a suspension, if the school wants to set a precedent... but expuls
precedents have been established (Score:2)
Unfortunately, there seems to be an increasing frequency of reports of punishments for online posting. The precedent has been set, and there's no rioting against it. It seems rediculous to me, but this is going to continue for some time until some lawsuit strikes it down.
Re:precedents have been established (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually this is interesting, the school has clearly established the punishment for doing this. So the easy way to protest this would be get a sizable percentage of the student body to swear on their twitter accounts. What is the school going to do? Expel 30+% of their student body? If they did, it would make national headlines and the people that run that school would become a laughing stock. It would also energize the debate enough where we could finally sort this out. And if they don't expel them, they can't expel this student.
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In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they used the opportunity to expel their low-scoring students, simultaneously increasing their federal budget due to federal test-marks-for-dollars guidelines and lowering their costs due to having less students to serve.
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If they were to choose to enforce it nonuniformly, when it clearly was something that everyone was violating, I expect that some of the people expelled might make a compelling discrimination suit.
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Schools can't really expel a lot of students because the state funding formulas are by student-days - the number of students attending the school. If they expelled a significant number of schools their funding would be cut noticeably. Poor things.
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It's not just the fact that he was punished for posting something that makes it seem idiotic to me. It's the fact that their reasons are always extremely petty. "Profanity." "Swear words." "Someone could get offended!"
Who cares? Are you seriously so oversensitive that you cannot handle the mere mention of a word?
Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
Good life lesson (Score:2, Insightful)
Schools loaning computers are still a relatively uncommon thing. These kids are being given an opportunity to learn to use a tool that will greatly increase their future opportunities. Encouraging the kids to use it wisely is a good thing. How many reports have we s
Re:Good life lesson (Score:5, Insightful)
That said expulsion might seem a bit harsh, but we really don't know what else this kid has done or not done.
This.
In my mind, expulsion for this is the right punishment only if the student has a long record of other issues, including a suspension or maybe two. If so, I think it would be okay to expel him for even just spitting on the school sidewalk. If not, this is a ridiculous and difficult to understand result from a public school. Hell, I doubt even private schools are this punitive.
Swearing is bad manners and should be discouraged as a way of maintaining order and courtesy, but as far as I know, it has never impeded the learning of anyone or those around them. I sincerely hope this isn't some over-the-top punishment, and is instead, a measured reaction to a chain of incidents.
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Yeah, I get your point.
But even in a corporate environment, you're probably not going to get fired for a single arguably offensive tweet. There are probably better ways to teach kids that lesson than expelling them.
I have only one word for that (Score:2)
R I D I C U L O U S
Another Example (Score:3)
Oblig (Score:5, Funny)
Perhaps one of the most interesting words in the English language today, is the word fuck. Out of all the English words that begin with the letter 'f'
In English, fuck falls into many grammatical categories:
As a transitive verb for instance.. John fucked Shirley.
As an intransitive verb... Shirley fucks.
Its meaning is not always sexual, it can be used as...
An adjective such as... John's doing all the fucking work.
As part of an adverb... Shirley talks too fucking much.
As an adverb enhancing an adjective... Shirley is fucking beautiful.
As a noun... I don't give a fuck.
As part of a word... absofuckinglutely -or- infuckingcredible.
And as almost every word in a sentence... Fuck the fucking fuckers.
As you must realize, there aren't too many words with the versatility of fuck...such as these examples describing situations such as:
Fraud: I got fucked at the used car lot.
Dismay: ahhh fuck it.
Trouble: I guess I'm really fucked now.
Aggression: Don't fuck with me buddy.
Difficulty: I don't understand this fucking question.
Inquiry: Who the fuck was that?
Dissatisfaction: I don't like what the fuck is going on here.
Incompetence: He's a fuck-off.
Dismissal: Why don't you go outside and play hide and go fuck yourself...
I'm sure you can think of many more examples.
With all these multi-purpose applications, how can anyone be offended when you use the word. We say use this unique, flexible word more often in your daily speech.
It will identify the quality of your character immediately.
Say it loudly and proudly: FUCK YOU!
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The EU says FU to its member states. - MEP Daneil Hannan. (I hope I got the right link.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WObI5m5CXVQ [youtube.com]
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is derived from German ...the word fuieken, which means to strike.
Actually, the word is 'ficken'. I am a native speaker (German).
CC.
Important life lesson (Score:2)
When you use your company laptop or company phone, all bets are off w.r.t. freedom of speech and privacy. Even if its on your own time and/or off company property.
So lets leave those company phones and laptops at work after quitting time. And bring your own phone for use during lunch breaks. If they need to contact you 24x7, they can pay you 24x7, time and a half after 40 hours, of course.
This kid got a tough lesson. But at least he didn't lose a job over it.
EXPELLED! hello? (Score:2)
Expelling a child does impact them later in life more than being fired.
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If you give up the expectation of privacy, then there will be no consequences for invading your privacy and then you really won't have any privacy. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
The school was SPYING on his PRIVATE ACCOUNT (Score:5, Interesting)
Remember kids, wiretap laws and the Bill of Rights don't apply to you when you're enrolled in school.
Anyone agreeing with the school here really needs to read TFA (specifically the TechDirt article). Apparently he Tweeted while at home, and the school had a system set up that tracked all Twitter logins, recording all Tweets on those accounts. The kid must have logged in subsequently to posting the Tweet, and their spy system picked it up.
I mean, what the fuck. The school is literally spying on its students' private accounts. I bet their system picked up Direct Messages too, all in the name of anti-bullying. I really hope this kid calls the ACLU and gets this shut the hell down. This is a huge violation of his and the other students' rights. If he had posted the Tweet from the school it may have been slightly different but still an overreaction. This is outright wiretapping, unauthorized use of an account, a declaration that students' private lives are subject to the school's rules... what the hell is going on here?
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It's only language (Score:2)
Had he said the same thing in the hallway, at worst he'd have been told to shut up.
But because he "spoke" through a computer, he deserves explulsion?
The school's policies are seriously screwed up.
Sorry, in the vernacular of the students, "seriously FUCKED up!"
After reading things like this... (Score:5, Insightful)
...and stories like the assistant principal at a Lower Merion PA school district spying through the webcam on student issued laptops (remember that?), I have to say one thing about student-issued laptops:
Laptops are cheap enough. Use your own. Treat the school issued one as toxic. Refuse it.
They are simply too dangerous to even turn on.
And those in authority wonder why they are distrusted.
--
BMO
Re:After reading things like this... (Score:4)
Re:After reading things like this... (Score:4)
Then leave the school issued laptop at school. That's what lockers are for. Use it only for classes and that's it.
--
BMO
uh (Score:2)
What really happened? (Score:4, Informative)
Now, if as per HuffPost, he did it on his own time using his own equipment; then the school is way out of line.
"Offensive" is not dangerous or harmful (Score:2)
Didn't we just have a news item about offensive speech [slashdot.org]?
I can see being upset about speech that causes actual damage, such as promoting drug use, bullying another student, provoking specific violence ("I'm going to kill you tomorrow, Danny") or posting private information.
Offensive speech? Obscenities? It's a stupid idea to start regulating this stuff, as there will be a lot of it.
Threaten a law suit (Score:3)
Original Story (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20120325/LOCAL0201/303259931 [journalgazette.net]
It appears the confusion all over the place here derives from the fact that there were two separate incidents. First, last year, he used school equipment to post a profane tweet and was suspended. Then, recently, he posted the above linked profane tweet, but it was from home, on his own computer, not on the school's network at all. They just saw it because they were examining his Twitter account because of the last incident.
Hopefully that clears up some of the confusion.
All Schools With Laptops (Score:3)
However, all traffic from the laptop is routed through their VPN, you can't even shut it off or edit any system settings. They have the OS completely restricted. If you install anything on the laptop without their permission, they reprimand you for it. They have unfettered access to the embedded webcam (I told him to put a piece of electrical tape over it and if anyone questions it ask why he needs to remove it) and they also have complete remote access abilities to monitor his laptop.
Honestly this is all pretty sick. A school isn't a business. While it may be appropriate for a business to protect it's assets and make sure they aren't being misused, the school is run by the government, which is in turn (supposed to be) run by the people. A simple reimage of the computer would wipe anything the user has done. As long as they don't physically break it then there shouldn't be any problems. Instead they are not only going out of their way to lockdown the OS (which prevents any sort of meaningful learning experience outside of a handful of software suites they deem worthy), but also patrol what their students do, which in turn opens up space for liability as well. Whatever happened to parents doing this sort of thing anyway?
If he didn't HAVE to use the laptop, and oh yes, they are required, to use the laptop in school, outside of school, and they can't buy their own, I would suggest him using the home computer. They are required to essentially funnel everything that is school related through the device. There aren't ways to access the in school programs outside of the VPN, like the drop box.
This is exactly how NOT to do a laptop program if you give a shit about the people actually using them.
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Right, it was also their network with their IP address.
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It was their computer he was using at home at 2:30 AM? I'd say read the links (the top FA doesn't include that tidbit), but this is /.
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Perhaps, but you don't get rid of racism by removing opportunities for education. This isn't going to stop people from being racist, it will just make them internalize it and express it even more viciously in their private lives.
Now, if this individual is an impediment to good order in a school, it may be tactically necessary to remove him to prevent strife, but as an impediment to racism, such a punishment would be ineffective. The vocal racists likely are not the ones you really need to worry about. I
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How about the United States of China
How about death penalty?
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The school claims it was done from a school computer. Austin says he did it from home.
That was from the local paper [indianasnewscenter.com]. It seems that more questions need to be answered- who owns the laptop? If the school owns it, there is most likely an Acceptable Use Policy which prohibits profanity and outlines punishment (whether right or wrong). Austin seems to stress he did it from his "own account" at his home. It is very likely Austin has a school-owned laptop with a user account he has for homework.
If the school did own the computer, they would be held liable (right or wrong- I think this concept
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They seem to ignore that the environment where they live has rules set and enforced to ensure stability.
You mean like pointless, arbitrary rules against 'profanity'?