University Networks Block Student Project 167
An anonymous reader writes "A computer science student at University College London put together FitFinder as a bit of a joke — it's been described as a cross between Twitter and personal ads, and it rapidly became very popular. The university took exception to this and started by blocking the site from being accessed on campus. Not content with this, a few weeks later it fined the student £300 and had him take the site down completely. Currently, the site is still offline, although there is a petition with several thousand signatures requesting its return. In the meantime, a site called PhitFinder has appeared, claiming to have no link to the original."
PhatFinder (Score:3, Insightful)
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Judging by how badly the site got hacked within five minutes of being linked to Slashdot, I'd say people are playing with it enough already.
What is an adult? (Score:2)
Talking to my Dad the other day, he describe a cousin of mine as "a good kid"... the problem? He's 31 years old! See, anybody who's had kids will always see the friends of their kids as kids. Which wouldn't be much of a problem except for the increasing longevity of people.
See, the average age of people has been climbing for a long time, and is currently about 55. So, more and more, college students are "college kids". And the "legal age" of 18 becomes increasingly irrelevant as more power is wielded by an
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As long as it can guarantee you don't get a certain single white female in San Francisco whose motto is "Living well is the best revenge" [google.com].
Lady Rice-A-Roni - the "other" San Francisco treat.
A cross between... (Score:2, Funny)
Stop having control (Score:5, Insightful)
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No, they exist to educate people and hand them a piece of paper certifying that they successfully studied there. It happens that this paper helps them to find a job, and surely many want it only for that purpose, but it's not what the paper is for. It's up to the employers to decide whether they care about the paper or not.
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No. The de jure and de facto purpose of a university is preservation and extension of human knowledge. The defacto outcome of university study is an improved job market prospect.
The difference is important. It is not up to the university to improve students' chances of finding a job, it is merely a gamble most students make.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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There, fixed that for you.
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Universities and colleges exist to SELL people a piece of paper letting them get a job.
/quote>
Not in the UK ;-)
Don't expect Univ. to set up everything for you. (Score:1, Redundant)
That would mean students are old enough to know that they should buy an account at an ISP for their site. This means the students can enjoy freedom from University policy/control, own the domain name and site code, and keep the site up after the student is no longer affiliated with the University. In the US one can get this level of service for under $10/month; it's hard for some university organizations to economically justify competing with that low price.
I don't know UCL's complete logic here, and I do
Didn't catch the site is not Univ. hosted (Score:2)
The Timesonline server took too long to respond for me (now it works) and I missed the quote at the end of that article where the unnamed Univ. spokesman said that "UCL has no jurisdiction over the site, as it is not UCL-hosted.". Now I see that that aspect of the issue isn't the center of this debate. It's good that Martell hosted his site elsewhere.
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If you are old enough to attend college/university you are old enough to do whatever you want.
Wrong on so many levels.
If you attend a college or university, chances are you are held to a standard of behaviour that prevents you from making the learning institution look like a fool.
Admissions papers are full of "Sign here on the X", one of them was your agreement to not be a jackass and accept the college's rulings on your behavior.
Don't like it? There's the door.
Re:Stop having control (Score:5, Insightful)
Held by what authority? Please explain the logic that justifies the university - or, for that matter, any organization - demanding complete control over its students lives?
Do you honestly think that you are bound to university's will just because you signed a paper? That they can simply decide that they don't like something you've done so you have to pay them 300 pounds? Seriously?
Except that, as you yourself noted, the student and the university have a contract.
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They don't have the ability to jail you, but they can certainly sue for breach of contract. If you want to stay a student there, then they naturally have more authority over you and can put all sorts of extra terms on. I don't know if he would be liable for the fine if he decided to walk away from
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and abandon whatever he already paid in tuition.
Now there's a thought. Until recently, the UK didn't have tuition fees - so historically Universities might fine students, but the point was the alternative option was to be kicked out. I don't think they'd sue you (unless it was something that you could be sued over - that doesn't seem to apply in this case; I'd like to see what contract he signed that prohibited him from running a website, and even there, it's up to a court to decide if a contract is reasona
Re:Stop having control (Score:5, Informative)
UCL brings it's self into disrepute (Score:5, Insightful)
By stifling a creative and enterprising endeavour the UCL brings it's self into disrepute.
Re:Stop having control (Score:4, Insightful)
It's intolerant Trolls like yourself that support oppression and censorship. Neoconservatism may be popular, but just because everybody is jumping on the Special Interest Group bandwagon doesn't mean that you have to be as immoral as everybody else.
If you don't like TV then turn it off, if you don't like Web Sites then don't click on their links. And finally, if you're going to mouth off about an article you should at least read it first (which you obviously haven't).
Some normal people in this world are getting sick and tired of Right Wing people (whether they be feminists or climate-change deniers) trying to force their intolerant attitudes and lifestyles on other people.
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Somewhere around the time when they whizzed right past their original supposed casus belli of fighting workplace discrimination against women and morphed into a veritable female supremacy movement with all the subtlety and nuance of a massively overweight, excessively hairy, screeching man-hater of a lesbian landing on you from a height of 200 meters.
A fine and a takedown order? (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a university with far too much power.
Re:A fine and a takedown order? (Score:4, Insightful)
That's what I'm thinking. UNLESS the site was being hosted on campus... then it falls within their TOS probably.
If not, that's total bullshit and lawsuits should ensue.
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They're holding his degree ransom (Score:2, Interesting)
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It probably is, but you're starting to go down a rabbit warren where the only way out would be to find a judge who would grant an injunction forcing the university to forget about the £300 and let him graduate.
As a lay person, this is something I wouldn't feel comfortable with unless I had some serious legal assistance - and for the sake of £300 it might be as well to put it down to experience. It would certainly be a lot cheaper.
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Not to mention that if he did this, he'd likely suddenly start getting a lot of unexplained Fs on his grade report.
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and British University has been smacked silly by the courts during the last 12 months for giving arbitrary low marks to a student in retaliation for earlier legal action. I doubt that UCL would be so foolish.
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Or too little bandwidth?
Or wanting to avoid having to deal with ad revenue generating sites run by students?
There's a bunch of stuff here that could easily point to 'reasonable request'.
However, the Uni are a bunch of sissies. Back in the day we would have just rm'd his site, blocked it on the border routers and claimed a server crashed.
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hoist on my own petard. :(
You win this round, internet user.
ta heck with the degree (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a zillion buck idea he had up and running! He should have told them to stuff it. That would have made the site even more popular as word of his telling "the man" to f off spread around his users and their friends. Plenty of time later to go get all the degrees ya want once you are rolling in dough.
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Plenty of time later to go get all the degrees ya want once you are rolling in dough.
Yeah, that worked out really well for Mark Zuckerberg, didn't it? Oh, wait...
My two cents (Score:2)
So, he violated the university's disciplinary code, correct? Well, either he did violate the code, or he didn't. In either case, I hope he fights it. If the former, the code needs to be changed.
Wait, does the UK have free speech like America?
In any situation, it's defaming to his character.
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Wait, does the UK have free speech like America?
Yes, but not to the extent the US does. Ask Simon Singh.
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(Yes, I know he won out eventually after a great deal of time and legal expense. Not every particle physicist has bestselling books, BBC documentaries, newspapers, and international networks of supporters behind them)
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But, in the Singh case, the BCA (afaik) will be paying for his costs too (boy, will this be expensive) and Mr Justice Eady has been roundly lambasted again.
The UK has more extensive free speech in some areas, firstly in the fact that more things count as 'speech', and secondly because the Convention places a positive burden on the government to provide for the exercise of those rights.
(This is, of course, in theory, but then so is the US situation)
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Typical (Score:2)
Re:Typical (Score:5, Informative)
University Networks *NOT* Blocking Student Project (Score:3, Informative)
A university spokesman said: “UCL does not approve of or condone this site. We therefore advised the student to take the site down, but he declined to do this. UCL has no jurisdiction over the site, as it is not UCL-hosted. We have, however, taken disciplinary action against the student for bringing the college into disrepute and he has been fined.”
Another triumph for Slashdot accuracy...
First rule of tabloid journalism (Score:2)
Even calling this thing a "project" in the headline and "a bit of a joke" once it's suckered in the readership reeks of the kind of deceitful tactics we don't expect (or want) on /. It would be nice to see better judgment and control over the stories - even on the weekend. Better no news than stuff like this.
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Releasing the code... (Score:1)
The solution for every censorship problem of websites and software. =)
He should probably wander down to the law faculty (Score:5, Informative)
From TFA:
Dean of Welfare (Students), wrote: “Following the serious complaints brought to this institution regarding the contents of the site and your association with it, I find myself having to bring a charge under UCL’s Disciplinary Code of Bringing the College into Disrepute. Therefore I am fining you £300.”
IANAL but AFAIK private organisations in the UK cannot enforce fines - that's a privilege open exclusively to the government. And the nation's universities are essentially private institutions (albeit receiving heavy state funding).
Having said that, if the university I went to was any guide they'll probably have something in their rules which states that if you owe them so much as a penny on graduation day, you don't graduate. And though they may not be able to get a judge to force him to pay, I have no idea if he'd be able to get a judge to force them to write off the £300 "fine".
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They can't enforce fines in the sense of sending men with guns to take it from his house if he doesn't pay up, but I don't see what prevents them from just adding $300 to his tuition.
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1) Because tuition isnt set by the university
2) Because, even if it was, it would be breach of contract
Now what you have instead is the archaic "we withold your results unless you pay up" - however a FoIA request should clear that up, if pressed.
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Those reports won't work for getting into grad school and such. You need an official sealed transcript, and nothing else will work.
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No they cannot enforce it in terms of sending in the bailiffs. But they can withhold the degree, which is substantially more threatening. Maybe you could get it back via the courts, but I wouldn't bet on it and it really will not do you any favours when your next potential boss calls for a reference.
Universities (the good ones anyway) in the UK are about the research and the students are a pest they tolerate for the funding. Departments are ran on egos and committee politics. Bow to the egos and pay the fi
Lots of places fine people (Score:2)
Sorry PhitFinder (Score:3, Funny)
Sorry.
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I was playing around with PhitFinder and I totally accidentally made it forward to slashdot.
I sew what u did ther... Now Bobby, what did we teach you about that sort of thinking? http://xkcd.com/327/ [xkcd.com]
Note: Anyone wanting to do any phishing or click fraud should probably hurry up before someone perm redirects the site to goatse...
degree may be put in jeopardy? Stand for your righ (Score:2)
degree may be put in jeopardy? just shows what joke schools have become.
Just Stand for your rights and who cares if if you list you have a degree but just they are holding it over some non course work stuff. What if you got a job and they later found out you failed the swim test and did not fully get the degree over that?
Re:degree may be put in jeopardy? Stand for your r (Score:4, Insightful)
Standing up for your rights is one thing, but I'd also argue: Choose your battles wisely.
In any situation where there is a huge imbalance of power (which there is in this case - the student has paid his tuition fees for the year and there's no obligation for the university to actually hand over the degree certificate), the one thing you do not do if you're in the less-powerful position is piss off the person in the more-powerful position - unless you want to wind up being thoroughly crushed. You make sure the balance of power is restored and then you start pissing them off.
I'm wondering - if you were to pay under protest and then sue for the money back at a later date (which is quite possible to do in the UK if you're over a barrel), the statute of limitations is six years. Hypothetically (and IANAL), he could pay up under protest now and sue once he's graduated.
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and then sue the UK government under the human rights act (\the convention if he has to go to strasbourg) for not protecting him from it in the first place.
please see Cheeseplants house in the 90s (Score:2)
We did overcome this and EW-TOO based talkers are STILL alive!
hm (Score:2)
CMU had a similar site pop up entitled "Before We Leave [beforeweleave.com]", which to my knowledge has not garnered any scorn from the administration.
From their FAQ page:
Life should be lived with no regrets. Undoubtedly there are people that you know (or know of) that you've always wanted to 'encounter' physically. With graduation right around the corner, these final weeks are your last chance. This site is devoted to facilitating those encounters.
So... you enter the andrew IDs of the top five people you have always wanted to get with. If they also list you in their top five, we will email both of you-- the rest is up to you. If nobody matches with you, c'est la vie-- at least you tried. It's as simple as that.
Your top five are safe: your desires will only be revealed if the other person also desires you. Otherwise they will be kept secret forever.
Blanket TOS (Score:2)
A similar line has been used by our local university recently. They can catch you any way they like using this. Its much like a bad EULA - you just agree because you are progressing thru university after high school. Next thing its biting you in the ass for that slightly too raucous 1st year party, or that thesis that, while your are not a Holocaust denier, your thesis que
Re:what has the university to do with it? (Score:5, Funny)
It are happen in Europe.
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ZOOOOOM!!!!!
Didn't read the article, did you?
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University College London isn't in America.
Can you see why?
Re:what has the university to do with it? (Score:5, Funny)
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In the UK a collegiate university means a university built up of individual colleges (a college is not synonymous with university in British English)
UCL is one college which forms part of the university of London. Hence it's a college of a university in Lodon. Or specifically, a university college of London [University]
So yeah. Given college != university the above isn't really that funny
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even more fun, in France, le collège = Junior High School (12-15). Then comes le lycée (16-18, baccalauréat at the end), then l'université (ou une Grande Ecole).
Maybe an idea for a Community knock off (best comedy series of the year that one): not "I got my degree from Colo/umbia, and now they want met to get one from the US", but "my collège degree from France is no longer enough, I've got to go to College in the US, too".
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There is a University College that is part of Rutgers University. "University" and "College" are both words. They have meaning.
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Because we don't call our schools "University College"?
Mitchell314, meet University of Maryland University College [umuc.edu].
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London isn't necessarily where you think it is.
London, Ontario, Canada.
The London Bridge which was sold and shipped from the UK to Arizona.
London, Ohio
London, Kentucky.
London, Arizona
London, California.
There are more Londons in the US than in the UK.
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Better than his comedy one, it would seem.
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Why are you telling me that, you wrist-tapper? £ is never ever used for the unit of weight (even if it's etymologically related) which is why the joke didn't work.
Now would you mind awfully fucking off?
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There are more Londons in the US than in the UK.
There is only one London I know of that uses the GBP, and it just so happens to be the same one that University College London is in.
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Or they could be assuming the City of London [wikipedia.org], in the UK, which is the smallest city in the UK (just over a mile square), and has a tiny population (less than 8,000).
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Or they could be assuming the City of London [wikipedia.org], in the UK, which is the smallest city in the UK (just over a mile square), and has a tiny population (less than 8,000).
That's never referred to as just "London" in the UK, especially in London. It's normally called "The City".
University College London is in Bloomsbury [wikipedia.org], a little north-west of the City.
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There are more Londons in the US than in the UK.
In the same vein, Vatican City has two popes per square kilometre...
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Oh really? How many University of Kent, or University of Canterburys are there?
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No idea? Why don't you tell us. Is the answer one, and one?
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An American thing? Read the article. This is in England.
Re:what has the university to do with it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Ya know, I really don't reply much, but the whole "anti-american" thing has gone too far when the damned summary includes something that tells anybody that knows anything about currency that this is not US thing. Here, allow me to quote it:
You might be especially interested in the currency indicator. That "£" symbol is used to denote the UK currency unit called the "pound". Over in the actual article (I know, nobody ever reads it, but I still did), they say this:
So, at least in this case, no, it is not an "american thing". It is, most definitely, a "London thing". As London is considerably closer to Europe (and, being part of the UK, is considered to be part of Europe) than any part of the USA, I would have to venture that your assertion
is now verified to be false. In fact, it might be so far false that this could be considered to be a "European thing", though I'm not sure I'd take it that far myself.
Re:what has the university to do with it? (Score:4, Insightful)
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It tells that in their elitist Eurohubris they are sure that the knuckledragging Yanks really ARE the Great Satan, and that no one would dare fuck about with THEIR civil liberties that way.
Want to piss off everyone? Remind them how free they aren't.
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Maybe you should remind us all (I'm American, BTW) how free the US is and Europe isn't. Because what you may believe to be free, Europeans might think of as oppressive. And they'll have their own "freedoms" that we don't.
The world just isn't that black and white.
Re:what has the university to do with it? (Score:4, Informative)
It's their understandable embarrassment over having to have the US save their asses twice in the last century.
Actually, no. It's the way you guys pissed away every last shred of credibility in the years following 9/11, which is quite an accomplishment. You get attacked, you have the entire civilized world on your side, and within a few years you manage to piss every last one of us off to the extent that saying "we're going to distance ourselves just a wee bit from the US" is a surefire way of grabbing a few more votes.
I honestly doubt Osama bin Laden could have possibly imagined just how much of a success his attack would turn out to be. He set the opportunity for the US to show the world what it is all about and well, it did.
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If you care about killing a few thousand ragheads, you've wussed out.
Remember "Bomber" Harris and other Euros who actually had balls, dedication, and didn't sweat the death of "enemy civilians" (as opposed to pretending they are something different)? Harsh people like HIM got you your current cozy position, not postwar legalist nonsense and the UN.
Enjoy your cultural collapse. Happy Eurabia!
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Remember "Bomber" Harris and other Euros who actually had balls
You mean the mad nutter who frittered away thousands of aircrews lives and thousands of bombers on attacking civilian targets on the ill-concieved mission of trying to 'break' the morale of a people living under a totalitarian regime? The one who was itching to get 'his' bombers released from militarilly beneficial duties in the spring\summer of 1944 supporting the invasion so that he could continue his insane mission to bomb Germany's cities into ruins (which we had to pay to fix again). It wasn't even lik
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In America the corporate state takes away your rights. Europe has the government for that. Either way you lose.
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From the media? I don't know which media you are watching, but the only medium I get this stereotype from is Slashdot.
And no, I'm not in America. So that's no explanation.
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Actually, AC *did* say media... (Score:2)
BTW, take a stroll through NYC, Chicago, SF, LA or any other major US city and behold the stupid, ignorant tourist. They're not just American, although you'll see plenty of them too.
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Don't consider it a "European thing", as i think I could find something similar about the US within the last couple of months and restricting myself to Slashdot.
OTOH, if you wanted to call it an "Authoritarian thing" I'd be hard pressed to deny it.
P.S.: Unlike in traditional usage, "authoritarian" doesn't distinguish between left wing and right wing. Modern left-wingers can be just as authoritarian as their right-wing opponents. WWII pretty much saw the end of that particular association...though the 196
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Don't confuse .uk with .eu.
I don't think that this kind of thing is actually regulated on the european level. At least here in Sweden it would be very hard for a university to do something like that (have a hard time believing they would actually want to do something like that) but I guess there is a different situation in England.
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Crazy is only treatable by death. Kill yourself before you relapse and begin another bout of madness and misery. A dry dive off something tall is a quick rush, like bungee jumping, followed by instant nirvana.
You will feel nothing, no one will miss you, and you will know it was a grand gesture befitting a noble person such as yourself.
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it's just text posted from http://www.softwareproblem.org/solution/catch-me-if-you-can.html [softwareproblem.org]