Student Banned From Minnesota Campus Over Facebook Comments 806
Be careful just how you vent online is the lesson from this story pointed out by reader kungfugleek, from which he excerpts: "A University of Minnesota student has been banned from the Twin Cities campus after three of her instructors felt threatened by some of her Facebook postings. Amanda Tatro was patted down and questioned by campus police when she got to class Monday. The 29-year-old mortuary science student had posted comments on her Facebook page after breaking up with her boyfriend. She told her Facebook friends she wanted to stab a 'certain someone in the throat' with an embalming instrument. Tatro said she was 'looking forward to Monday's embalming therapy.' When the instructors learned of the postings, they contacted police." The Star-Tribune's account offers more detail.
My god. (Score:4, Insightful)
What the fuck is it that you american's live in such state of paranoia?
Yes, I understand that you guys have had some gruesome stuff happen at schools and all, but some dark and frustrated writing on a wall is no threat at all. Man, if Nietzche or Sartre studied in today's america, or even burroughs or kerouac, they'd be behind bars by now.
Re:My god. (Score:4, Insightful)
What the fuck is it that you american's live in such state of paranoia?
Relentless public announcements that we should accept our neighbor and be considerate of each other's differences. It's to the point now where people can't even make self-deprecating comments about their own race or sex without being fired for being racist or sexist. Jokes have become illegal. We've made negative feelings essentially taboo -- you can't express anger, dissatisfaction, or anything but sunshine and kittens.
The laws of thermodynamics also loosely apply to social problems: In this case, the rate at which negative emotions are created hasn't changed, but the available space they exist within has been constrained. This has led to a rise in pressure and temperature. Naturally, leaks develop, which result in high pressure discharges into the relative vaccum of positive emotions, which are suspiciously absent right now due to an economic turndown, a lack of socialization amongst our peers (due to the constant fear of them), and so yeah...
We've made it illegal to cry tears, and so... some have started to cry bullets. I'm sorry to say, America -- but life is shit. We need to square with that and be honest. A few more fuck you's and honest brawls between people would do us all a lot of good. Yes, I'm advocating violence here -- because a few punches in the face is a lot easier to get over than a few bullets in the back.
Re:My god. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:My god. (Score:4, Insightful)
Holy shit. Said it way better than I ever could. Nail =>> head
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
anything but sunshine and kittens
Your expression of delightful and joyful items is making those in the Northwest, British Isles, and recently kitten-less population unhappy. Please refrain from any further emotions or we will be forced to take action against you.
Re:My god. (Score:5, Insightful)
The teachers were worried about violence not about a joke.
The teachers had nothing to do with this. the administration was worried about getting their asses sued if that 0.1% chance that the student acted on the stated impulses. It looks very bad in this political climate to advocate a reasonable position like "it did not seem like a credible threat." That statement does not protect a person or group from millions in lawsuit damages, or in legal fees. It's easier to throw the baby out with the bath water.
It was a joke-- A morbid joke, a joke in bad taste, and possibly it could even be said that the person who made the comment had a serious lapse of judgement, but it was still a joke. Why? Because I've said things like that during finals week, which is exactly what this poor girl did! It's not like she's sitting at home polishing her gun and muttering "the time of purification is at hand" over and over again and has a date circled on the calendar or anything. She is a young adult who was frustrated with academic life. zomfg.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
She just learned a useful life lesson, not to be stupid. This will serves as an example to others.
She doesn't own the campus and getting tossed therefrom isn't different than being fired for cause by an employer.
She has a legal right to speech, but others have legal rights to act towards her based on that speech.
I can lawfully tell my boss to suck my piles, and he can lawfully terminate my employment if that opportunity offends him.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Its amazing to me how supposedly freedom loving Americans are really quick to try and use non-government methods to limit other's freedoms.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You're totally right. The absolutely had a legal right to do what they did.
It doesn't change the fact that it was the stupidest, most counter-productive action they could have taken. It was perfectly legal, and also completely stupid and unjust.
Re:My god. (Score:5, Insightful)
This will serves as an example to others. She doesn't own the campus and getting tossed therefrom isn't different than being fired for cause by an employer.
First, I'm not sure it's the example we want to set. Second, unlike being fired -- she's got thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of student loans now that she owes and possibly no way to complete her degree. She may need to start over if those credits aren't transferable. Also, she didn't say this in the classroom. She said it in a semi-public forum, and if it was a credible threat, where are the police?
Because if she isn't charged with a crime, she's being punished for something that is apparently completely legal to do in public -- and being punished for doing so. Is that the lesson we want to teach? That someone merely needs to be offended to visit personal hardship and grief on their head?
Re:My god. (Score:4, Insightful)
Fixed that for you.
Only inhumans with no emotions have a place in Corporate America, as you said. Cogs don't get upset over anything, after all, and no human is anything but one.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:My god. (Score:5, Insightful)
What the fuck is it that you american's live in such state of paranoia?
Better question: what the fuck is up with everyone else besides Americans assuming that one or two school officials in isolated incidents means ALL americans are paranoid? I'm not paranoid. Had I been a school administrator, I wouldn't have done shit about this. Maybe I would have e-mailed the dude and told him that no matter how cool his ex said she was, he should not come to her embalming class "just to practice."
I happen to not be the administrator though.
Some parents are irrational about school safety, but that's a universal. Every country has parents overreacting to isolated incidents. Japan is one of the safest countries, school children can ride the subways on their own many places. I remember hearing about a suicide at shinjuku subway station, and reading opinion articles by parents saying they were thinking about not letting their children ride the subway anymore because they might see someone commit suicide. Based on one incident. That's overreacting. These weren't American parents either.
If americans are paranoid more than anyone else, it's about lawsuits. The administration in question was probably being overly cautious in this case not because they suspected the woman would do anything, but to cover their own ass on the extreme off chance that she did, they wouldn't want to get sued.
Speaking as someone who has been sued for $300,000 for a skiing accident involving nothing more than a torn ACL, THAT fear isn't completely irrational.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I apologize for the generalization. Its wrong on my part, as you justly point out.
Re:My god. (Score:5, Funny)
I apologize for the generalization. Its wrong on my part, as you justly point out.
Hmmm...you must be new here...
Re:My god. (Score:5, Funny)
I apologize for the generalization. Its wrong on my part, as you justly point out.
That's okay. All you Europeans do it.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not paranoid. Had I been a school administrator, I wouldn't have done shit about this. Maybe I would have e-mailed the dude and told him that no matter how cool his ex said she was, he should not come to her embalming class "just to practice."
You know, maybe the people who actually knew the woman were concerned because they actually knew the woman? As I said in a different post, nobody here knows the woman involved nor the teachers involved. But everybody is assuming that it is a stupid kneejerk response? Maybe the teachers believed based on past behavior that the woman was a threat?
Re:My god. (Score:5, Insightful)
Certainly more than 1 person is inconvenienced, since events like these further discourage expression of similar thoughts.
From my perspective the question is whether or not these types of actions actually make anyone safer. Since we've implemented zero tolerance policies; started kicking students out of school for expressing darker thoughts;began monitoring their activities outside school...are students any safer than before?
Re:My god. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, I understand that you guys have had some gruesome stuff happen at schools and all, but some dark and frustrated writing on a wall is no threat at all.
So you acknowledge this bad stuff happens.
Can you acknowledge that it can be prevented?
I would much rather a student be banned from 1 school for Emo behavior then having them run amock and killing several students.
Seriously, get you're head out of where its stuck. People could have been killed. 1 Person is inconvenienced.
Outlined are two scenarios. Which of these two is MORE likely to cause a violent incident at school?
1) A girl was dumped then had a private meeting with school administrators showing genuine concern
2) A girl was dumped and then kicked out of and humiliated by a school
Re:My god. (Score:4, Insightful)
Outlined are two scenarios. Which of these two is MORE likely to cause a violent incident at school?
1) A girl was dumped then had a private meeting with school administrators showing genuine concern
2) A girl was dumped and then kicked out of and humiliated by a school
Of those two scenarios, in which one does the school have liability for her potential violence?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
this bad stuff happens. ... far more rarely than freak bathtub accidents with deadly outcome (which are actually several hundreds in the US alone per year).
it can be prevented? ... most effectively by not engaging in mass hysteria. The media coverage and guaranteed instant stardom of rampagers has certainly created an attractive platform for unhinged attention seekers.
I would much rather a student be banned from 1 school for Emo behavior
Right, people become much more stable by being required to consistently
Re:My god. (Score:5, Insightful)
A mortuary science student looking forward to her class on Monday is reason enough to be concerned?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Duh. We expect morticians to be dour, unhappy people. Looking forward to anything is a class A violation of stereotypes. Lock 'er up!
Re:My god. (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's take for granted that "When some kind of school shooting happens, there is typically a message before hand". That does not, in any way, imply that every time you encounter such a "message", there's a statistically significant chance that a violent act will follow.
In fact, most people will agree that most "threats" of this nature do *not* result in violent acts. There thousands, if not millions of "threats" like these, uttered idly every day -- a simple hyperbolic expression of frustration. Meanwhile, school shootings happen a handful of times a year, at worst.
Similarly, I can guarantee that almost every school shooter will have imbibed some form of liquid before committing their heinous crimes. It does not follow that everyone who has a drink with their breakfast is going to shoot up their school.
"A usually precedes B" does not necessarily mean "A has occurred, therefor B MUST occur."
It doesn't even necessarily mean "A has occurred, therefor B is even 1% likely to occur".
Re:My god. (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not sure that people are not jumping to false conclusions here.
Given that she was a student of mortuary science the first message which read "looking forward to Monday's embalming therapy. ... Give me room, lots of aggression to be taken out with a troca", sounds reasonably harmless, assuming there was some sort of embalming practice or lab on Monday. It shows signs of pent up anger/agression, which she feels would help be relieved by said exercises. I'm sure most people would rather she take out her frustration on a corpse then on a living person.
Nothing at all wrong with that message. The concerning message is "I still want to stab a certain someone in the throat with a trocar though. Hmmm ... perhaps I will spend the evening updating my 'Death List #5' and making friends with the crematory guy. I do know the code ...".
Checking the message carefully I can see that it was not an actual threat. The first half was standard venting, and the second half was dark humor she hoped would help cheer her up. (She almost certainly posed this during the overlap between the anger and depression stages of the grieving process). (The Kill Bill reference really gives it away as dark humor, but it can still be detected even without knowledge of that).
Conclusion: The profs misinterpreted the message as a threat, and over-reacted as a result of the misinterpretation. Nobody was ever in any danger. Either the school will conclude that nothing was wrong and let her return to classes, or she will tansfer to some other school which realized there was never any danger and go from there.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"I am going to kill you" - theoretically can be said in jest
and
"I am going to kill you on Monday" - very scary, as setting a date implies much more than joking.
And yeah, after Virginia Tech, school administrators would rather not be caught as "ignoring warning signs" even though stuff like this goes on all the time and only hindsight is 20/20 as to the real problem makers.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:My god. (Score:5, Insightful)
Self & group deprecation won't win you friends across the pond. Also, piling on isn't constructive.
Re:My god. (Score:5, Insightful)
I can understand that you didn't RTFA, but not even reading the summary?! Really?! From the top:
The 29-year-old mortuary science student ...
Secondly, perhaps this is an example of stupid people with a knee jerk reaction, or perhaps these people who actually KNOW the woman in real life have a little more reason to be concerned? You and I know absolutely nothing about this woman or the teachers (beyond what's in the article...oh wait) and it's just so easy to make kneejerk reactions without knowing the facts.
Re:My god. (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because someone ages, doesn't mean they grow up.
Re:My god. (Score:4, Informative)
nineeleven
nine... ... eleven...
NINES AND ELEVENS!
I believe I speak for all Americans when I say: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
nineeleven
nine... ... eleven...
NINES AND ELEVENS!
Go back a little further: Columbine. That's when much of the school related hysteria intensified.
I was in high school when that happened, and I remember directly after that my school installed metal detectors, cameras, banned back packs, and started running the school even more like a prison.
Because death threats are illegal and a felony (Score:3, Insightful)
School has always been like a prison, they just removed the gilded part. Why AC? Your post was insightful.
I think the issue here is that people would rather err on the side of caution. You can't walk up to someone on the street and say "I'm gonna kill you" without consequences. They are illegal and a felony. Why would anyone think the same thing over the phone, or via e-mail would be any less so?
Re:Because death threats are illegal and a felony (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Because death threats are illegal and a felony (Score:5, Insightful)
Understandable, but the information in the second link (yes I know I should never read TFA) seems a bit more threatening.
"told her Facebook friends that she was "looking forward to Monday's embalming therapy. ... Give me room, lots of aggression to be taken out with a trocar [a sharp surgical instrument used in embalming]."
Now she's banned from campus because three instructors in the mortuary science program felt threatened after being made aware of her Facebook posts, prompting a police investigation.
According to the police report, Amanda Tatro, 29, followed her first posting with one that read: "I still want to stab a certain someone in the throat with a trocar though. Hmmm ... perhaps I will spend the evening updating my 'Death List #5' and making friends with the crematory guy. I do know the code ..."
If you are a student or a teacher at such a university, wouldn't you rather they err on the side of caution? At least until an investigation is completed?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
No, if I were a student or teacher, I'd write it off as angry venting, nothing more. See, most people are perfectly reasonable, and also vent in this manner (maybe more privately, but they do it).
When someone says "err on the side of caution" I interperate that as "I'm scared of my own shadow and the booggy monster and have to have mommy and daddy check under my bed for monsters each night, and I don't think there's anything wrong with a nightlight even though I'm 40 years old."
Re:Because death threats are illegal and a felony (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Because death threats are illegal and a felony (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Because death threats are illegal and a felony (Score:5, Insightful)
I think people need to realize that when they post stuff online, that it is the 'real world' and not a virtual world where actions don't matter.
Re:Because death threats are illegal and a felony (Score:4, Insightful)
I think people need to realize that when they post stuff online, that it is the 'real world' and not a virtual world where actions don't matter.
Good point. And I will develop that point further that I think people need to realize that when they READ stuff online that it may not have been intended in the tone or purpose to which the reader may immediately assume.
You will notice that people often classify statements as (sarcasm) on the internet to ensure they are understood, though many do not think to do so (and are often misunderstood as a product).
I've spent my whole reading of this topic under the assumption that it was akin to the common exaggerated expression "...I could kill xxx..." where xxx is some frustrating or disliked thing in life. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they were wrong. I do think it would have been more effective to attempt communication and explanation before taking such serious action.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Because death threats are illegal and a felony (Score:4, Insightful)
Which obvious signs are you referring to? We are inundated as a society with killing. Movies, TV, news, video games, music, even the fucking opera is usually about killing. So now we're unstable when we parrot all these horrible things that we see every/hear day? You're not unstable if you watch killing, but you are unstable if you write about it...
Re:Because death threats are illegal and a felony (Score:4, Interesting)
Because of situations like that, the school has to cover itself.
Re:Because death threats are illegal and a felony (Score:5, Interesting)
Which obvious signs are you referring to? We are inundated as a society with killing. Movies, TV, news, video games, music, even the fucking opera is usually about killing. So now we're unstable when we parrot all these horrible things that we see every/hear day? You're not unstable if you watch killing, but you are unstable if you write about it...
Your last sentence is the most important one. What has changed most is the medium. Before people felt the need to express themselves at near-strangers using text, a medium notoriously bad at correctly conveying emotion without a lot of hard work, talent, and luck, the sort of outbursts unearthed from TFA by DJRumpy would have been delivered passionately, in person, amongst friends. The friends, seeing the outburst delivered in such a rich medium, and having a good working knowledge of this woman's personality, would in the vast majority of cases easily discern whether she was seriously disturbed and dangerous or only blowing off steam.
Contrast that with a Facebook post that shows little more than text on a page. Facebookers are willing to friend just about anyone they barely recognize, and that goes double for college campuses. These people, and the teachers and authorities later alerted to the post, have little to no frame of reference in which to place the comments made. We as a whole tend to be cautious when it comes to strangers, and when the only data are a few notes threatening attack, the stakes are high.
I'm approaching my late twenties and like many of you grew up online. To me those posts barely register because I've seen and used such expression enough to understand the medium and the likelihood that she's just blowing off steam. Still, by posting that content in that context, it's also obvious to me that her risk of bringing the wrong sort of attention to herself is also high. This looks to be just another case of someone who doesn't understand the privacy ramifications of putting her information online.
Re:Because death threats are illegal and a felony (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, no, it hasn't.
When I was in High School, the campus had an open layout. DOZENS of entrances to dozens of buildings. Completely impossible to put metal detectors in every entrance because every classroom was a separate building.
We also had a smoking section.
In short, the school trusted their students, even to the point of allowing them to make their own informed decisions regarding smoking.
Now, with Columbine in the mix, would I have felt safer with all the metal detectors, cameras, etc in place?
FUCK no. If something similar had happened at my High School, I would have had dozens of EXITS to get away from any danger. Instead, today, we have High Schools that are basically a trap for anyone caught inside during such an attack. Now, attackers only have to cover a couple exits to keep their victims from escaping.
Re:Because death threats are illegal and a felony (Score:4, Interesting)
"Really? You don't think cutting the number of entrances/exits and the placement of the metal detectors and cameras at all reduces the chance of a successful attack?"
No, I do not.
I am realist. There is no way in hell we are going to be able to entirely stop attacks on schools, so we might as well focus on limiting the damage they might cause rather then put all the eggs in one basket.
Re:Because death threats are illegal and a felony (Score:4, Insightful)
Actions have consequences.
But threats are not actions. We Americans really need to back off from all this "pre-crime" bullshit. It's natural for people to become angry, and to say angry things. This is a normal way to let off steam, to use words instead of actions.
Wishing doesn't make it so.
Re:My god. (Score:5, Insightful)
Dont worry, It hasnt occurred to anyone that running a school like a prison in the FIRST place, might be a problem.
The adults who make these rules honestly believe every problem has something to do with anything but themselves.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I'm offering my help to help you get rid of those terrorists in your wallet.
Re:My god. (Score:4, Funny)
Hello Thought Crime (Score:3, Insightful)
She said that she "wanted" to do something, not that she had any intention of following through with it. An unrelated post said she was looking forward to class.
There's a world of difference between wanting to do something and actually doing something.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Oh? When exactly did they say they look forward to stabbing someone in the throat?"
When did they study mortuary science where stabbing bodies in the throat is almost customary?
"If someone says it (not a character in a story or philosophical dilemma), it's called a death threat."
Not.
Context is all. Would you call the police against Charles Fox and Norman Gimbel because they are killing softly Roberta Flack with their song?
When a mortuary science student says publicly on a blog that she is "looking forward
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
While depending on context it will likely be ignored, if you say "I'm GOING to kill x" then that legally IS a threat. You can say "I want to kill x" just fine because it expresses merely a desire - wanting to kill something isn't against the law. Saying that you ARE going to do it is.
Re:My god. (Score:4, Insightful)
That's a threat.
If you say that to a close friend who can see your face and judge your affect, they would understand that you are not going to follow through.
If you post it up on a web page without any context, people are forced to consider the possibility that you're about to go postal.
And the only responsible thing to do at that point is call the police and ban her from campus.
Oh wait. That's insane. Make a phone call, have a counselor sit down with her. Lesson learned, and they aren't giving a student a criminal record for blowing off steam by shooting her mouth off.
This shit really gets under my skin. The school had every "right" to do what they did, but the actions they chose were the most destructive ones they had available to them.
Re:My god. (Score:5, Informative)
This shit really gets under my skin. The school had every "right" to do what they did, but the actions they chose were the most destructive ones they had available to them.
Before you let shit get under your skin, you should really read the article:
Police are not filing charges and consider the matter closed, U spokesman Daniel Wolter said by e-mail. Privacy law prevents the U from commenting on the specifics of Tatro's case, but Wolter said that "in a case such as this, the case is typically referred to our Office for Student Conduct and Academic Integrity, which will interview the student, review evidence and make some kind of finding."
Emphasis mine. Sounds kind of like they're doing what you suggested. She's banned until they're more comfortable with her presence (reasonable) and she was patted down because they couldn't exactly prevent her from showing up for class. The problem was that this isn't like high school, they can't immediately get her into a room with a counselor first thing. So it sounds like they banned her until she undergoes counseling. I suppose she has the option to comply or remain banned.
How is that destructive? If you think that's the "most destructive" you are dead wrong. They could have pressed charges, voided her transcript, not offered to counsel her, etc. In fact they won't even give official word on the counseling to protect her privacy. It really sounds like they have her's and the teacher's best interests and safety in mind.
Profile as private? (Score:5, Funny)
By the way, I am gonna get all you suckers!!!!
I think the question is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"No sir. I had no intentions of killing this person. I was just stating fact that they were going to die. After all, we all are! There was just some miscommunication, that's all!"
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
... or more like a journal where you'd just write for yourself.
Then get a damned journal. No matter how much people want Facebook to be their own personal and private journal, it is not and never will be. You can expect to have a fairly high degree of privacy with a paper journal (keep it in your nightstand, lock it away in your desk). Facebook (and the internet as a whole) is a public place and expecting your violent venting not to be seen when you post it on Facebook is simply delusional. Even writings in a private journal can come back to bite you if the police
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It doesn’t.
People who know you very well may be able to tell what to take seriously and what to not take seriously. The typical Facebook “friend” does not know you nearly well enough to reliably make this distinction. Making a statement like she did on Facebook was about as wise as yelling it from a street corner. No special rules are needed, only the same common sense you’d use to restrain yourself from making such comments in public.
stupid (Score:5, Funny)
Morticians have a morbid sense of humor? SAY IT AIN'T SO! *face palm*
Silly. (Score:5, Funny)
This whole thing makes me want to beat someone in the face with a keyboard. I'm looking forward to Tomorrow's "development therapy".
No, I actually mean I'm going to qwerty some bitches foreheads here. Sorry for any confusion.
Re:Silly. (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
No, I actually mean I'm going to qwerty some bitches foreheads here. Sorry for any confusion.
See, if you had said you were going to dvorak some bitches, then the authorities would have known you must be maladjusted and unstable.
What's that noise? Oh, I'm just tapping my keyboard. Aoeu, aoeu, aoeu...
Modern times (Score:5, Insightful)
never a good plan (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
you can't threaten the president. see 18 USC Sec. 871,
"...Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President of the United States, o
Will people learn to watch what's said online? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Will people learn to watch what's said online? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a shame. What she needed was to be forced to attend counseling, not have her entire college career ruined. But maybe people will learn from her mistake.
Learn what? Last time I checked, saying "I want to stab someone in the throat" is different from:
a. Stabbing someone in the throat
b. Threatening to stab someone in the throat
c. Planning to stab someone in the throat
d. Having any intentions of stabbing someone in the throat, at all
e. Being capable of stabbing someone in the throat
I really want to take all your mod points. Quick, ban me for hacking!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Will people learn to watch what's said online? (Score:4, Informative)
What she needed is for people to fucking keep out of her business and put an end to all of this 'thoughtcrime' bullshit.
Yeah, posting violent fantasies on a social networking site is a good way to make sure people stay out of your business.
Re:Will people learn to watch what's said online? (Score:4, Insightful)
But doing it on a right wing radio talk show is a-ok?
Where are cops in that instance?
Re:Will people learn to watch what's said online? (Score:5, Funny)
Indeed. Words are our most precious form of expression. Even the most well intentioned statement can be ruined by one penis misspoken or mistyped word.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You can be responsible for your words. But it is not possible to hold someone responsible for how others react to those words, simply because there will always be unreasonable and crazy people out there.
You can choose your words such that most reasonable people will not react to them adversely. But that is the best that can be expected of anybody, morally or legally.
Crazy (Score:4, Funny)
So, the Professors were deathly afraid of her morbid comments, which lead to her to be terminated as a student. I don't think she should have undertaken her commenting to that level. I just wish that the professors would just bury the hatchet and let her rest in peace.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I think you've made a grave error if you believe your post will be modded up. More likely it will be buried 6 feet under.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You don't like puns, do you?
Re:Crazy (Score:4, Funny)
Either that or he simply can't take any morgue of this.
For whatever reason? (Score:5, Insightful)
"For whatever reason, this professor took it personally."
Hrm, was it the part about stabbing, "a certain someone in the throat with a trocar," or maybe the part about spending, "the evening updating my 'Death List #5' and making friends with the crematory guy," all in the context of, "looking forward to Monday's embalming therapy?" And yet the dumb bitch actually doesn't get it. Being pissy is one thing, making very specific public remarks about killing someone and disposing of the body, on the other hand, pretty much guarantees a visit by the po-po, and not to pat you on your angsty little head and tell you it's going to be OK.
A good life lesson for her (Score:5, Insightful)
Consider this one to grow on, Amanda. Don't publicly threaten to stab others in the throat with an embalming knife. It makes people nervous.
According to the article, the Ms. Tatro complained that for whatever reason, the professor was "taking it personally". Excuse me? She was talking very explicitly about her "Death List #5" and what exactly she would do with her very sharp instrument the following Monday in class.
How is a professor to know who is "just ranting" and who might be mentally unbalanced? I say, a prudent move by the prof.
Re:A good life lesson for her (Score:4, Insightful)
Unless she was banging the professor, the statements were clearly aimed at her ex.
She didn't say "jeez, life isn't worth it, I'll go on a killing spree monday", she said "I'm looking forward to embalming class"(subtext:because then I can pretend the corpse I'm exsanguinating is the bastard who dumped me)
Re:A good life lesson for her (Score:4, Insightful)
I think it's reasonable for a professor to prefer that his students not be taking out their aggressions on the cadavers while in his classroom... She is training to work in a position where it's very important to be respectful and professional---it is, after all, a dead human being she'll be working on.
George Lucas raped my childhood (Score:3, Funny)
And I do believe I was a minor during that childhood. If someone said it on the net it has to be taken seriously. I'm holding my breath waiting for the police to take Mr. Lucas into custody or, at the very least, Chris Hansen to ask him to have a seat.
Look... (Score:3, Insightful)
If she actually DID the kill the poor sap, and we find out that she posted about it beforehand on her FB page, everyone would be up in arms... "Why didn't someone do something about it? This could have been prevented!"
We can't have it both ways.
LOLCats and Social Networks. (Score:4, Funny)
This is why I only post pictures of LOLCats on any social network I am part of.
She just needed to post a pic of a kitten in the morgue with the caption "I am in yur Morgue, stabbing yur throt!"
Mortuary student (Score:3, Interesting)
The mortuary industry is very, very, very conservative. They take a dim view on anything that could tarnish their reputation. If it was any other industry, I would find this a ridiculous over reaction.
why the instructors cared... (Score:3, Insightful)
From the actual news piece, I doubt the instructors actually feared for their own safety, at least, I hope not.
From an instructor's perspective (in physics), it's not cool to joke about using lab equipment in dangerous ways because I am not your friend, I do not know that you are joking, and I am assuming responsibility for you while you're in my class. I don't want you to hurt yourself (what I really worry about), particularly under my supervision. I have sent students home who were too immature to handle dangerous lab equipment (high voltage power supplies, radioactive materials... no one has done anything dangerous with the blocks on an inclined plane--no one has tried), I have not had anyone I felt was too depressed or angry (yet). I hope I would make make such a student take a visit to a school counselor before going to the police!
OK, message received! (Score:5, Funny)
As anyone here ever subject to a break-up can attest, the ex will always want to kill you, certainly at least for the first week.
(Regardless of cause, or who did or said what, or who initiated it - and regardless that this is /. and I must be new here.)
So, today's lesson is simple - always date girls attending school in Minnesota.
The negative press she'll receive after her tirade will have you mercy-dating as the good guy in no time!
As Homer likes to say - SWISH!
Oh come on (Score:3, Funny)
she is studying mortuary science; Of course her posts are dark.
What next? Man studying at clown school thrown out because his facebook posts were too evil?
They did the right thing (Score:3, Insightful)
I work in education. If I had a student say they were looking forward to killing someone in my class, I'd be concerned. And if they DID kill someone in my class, everyone would be posting here saying, "Jeez, didn't you all see the clear signs posted on the internet? Why didn't anyone do anything?"
Re:Threats are threats (Score:5, Insightful)
Threats are threats.
Yup, sounds about right.
Next topic, please!
I believe saying I want to is quite different from saying I'm going to.
Re:Threats are threats (Score:4, Insightful)
For every few thousand cases where some dumb student posts an angry comment and it means nothing, there's the next case where the student then stabs their professor in the throat. Where do you draw the line?
Either we say freedom of speech is important or we say any threat is to be taken seriously.
Now, if the students want to protest this action, I recommend that thousands of the students at the university ALSO post "I also want to stab the professor and the chief of police in the throat with a mortuary knife". When confronted with a massive civil unrest protest of this kind, the police and authorities usually fold. The university will quickly ban one student but would never ban 100 students, much less several thousand students.
As with ALL civil unrest, you have to be prepared to take the punishment tho. It's always possible the university would indeed ban several thousand students.
Re:Threats are threats (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but how do you know the difference?
At Columbine and Virginia Tech the perpetrators had made public statements like this and it was blown off by the authorities.
What if had happened in THIS case? I'll tell you what, "The Authorities", would have been publicly eviscerated for "ignoring the clear warning signs that this student was disturbed and homicidal".
So if you're in Authority you're damned if you do and damned if you don't! In the end the only safe way is to err on the side of caution and have the situation checked out.
Re:Threats are threats (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, but how do you know the difference?
Even small statements made online are not devoid of context. If there is a rash of this behavior and a reoccurring pattern of such statements then yes, they should be taken seriously. However, if a student who has no history of violence or even anti-social behavior* makes an off-the-cuff statement such as this it should be taken in the appropriate context of an upset person venting frustration.
As is noted, this was posted on facebook for all the world to see. If it were truly a threat it would either be in a much more personal venue or you would likely be able to see a pattern of other such public statements.
*yes I know this is overly generalized and not really a valid way to assess anything about a person.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, but you don't say that kind of stuff publicly.
Would you say "I want to kill him..." If there were 3 police officers right beside you?
The only ridiculous thing about this is her actions. Free speech or not, Fake death threats or not, what she did was just plain stupid. Cry to yourself, not the world. Because only the government listens.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You are clearly wrong, in general. Most adults take no responsibility for anything, much less words.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
So you feel that the professors are taking responsibility for destroying a person's college career because she was emotional after a breakup?
From the article:
Despite Tatro's concerns that her ban from campus will mean not being able to participate in the process of reviewing her case, Wolter said that "students are entitled to due process and to participate in the process, as well as an appeals process should they disagree with the outcome."
Tatro hopes that happens quickly: She's already missed an exam and is set to miss several more. She has since set her Facebook profile to private.
I've read a couple of comments about how her college career is "destroyed", etc. That has yet to be determined. I support the professor's decision, but I hope the University doesn't permanently ban her.
Re:mortuary science? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Well it's a cutthroat business... Most of them end up going to pieces.