To Curb Truancy, Dallas Tries Electronic Monitoring 462
The New York Times is reporting that a school district in Texas is trying a new angle in combating truancy. Instead of punishing students with detention they are tagging them with electronic monitoring devices. "But the future of the Dallas program is uncertain. Mr. Pottinger's company, the Center for Criminal Justice Solutions, is seeking $365,000 from the county to expand the program beyond Bryan Adams. But the effort has met with political opposition after a state senator complained that ankle cuffs used in an earlier version were reminiscent of slave chains. Dave Leis, a spokesman for NovaTracker, which makes the system used in Dallas, said electronic monitoring did not have to be punitive. 'You can paint this thing as either Big Brother, or this is a device that connects you to a buddy who wants to keep you safe and help you graduate.'"
Really... (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder which of these two conclusions the students will come to.
Re:Really... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Really... (Score:5, Funny)
You know, like an older sibling.
Or like an actual PARENT (Score:5, Insightful)
If parents would actually PARENT, maybe we wouldn't need so much of a "Nanny" state. But until that happens, comparisons to 1984esque totalitarianism is absurd.
Re:Or like an actual PARENT (Score:5, Interesting)
Children are a somewhat different case because, in theory, they don't have all of the information that they need to make effective decisions about their future. Unfortunately, physical enforcement of what you think they should be doing isn't going to improve them, it's just going to let them know that they need to be trickier if they're going to avoid an oppressive state.
For children you have three paths. The first is to help them realize that cooperating with those around them and being productive is the most effective long-term strategy for pursuing their happiness. The second is to convince them that the entire world is a bunch of screw-ups that are only vaguely kept in order through threat of violence. The third is to let them screw up and take their lumps. Of the three, the second is actually the one most likely to result in violent, oppressive, and harmful adults.
Re:Or like an actual PARENT (Score:5, Insightful)
There is certainly educational value in "taking your lumps" as you put it, however I think this type of learning is more appropriate for older age groups. For example, skipping class has potential consequences potentially decades away. By the time they figure out they've screwed up, it's too late to do anything about it. In the worst case, their "screw up" turns into a burden on society later on. As the saying goes, spanking your kid when he's four will save the penal system from doing it when he's forty.
In this specific case, truancy, I feel it's either school or GED + vocational training. School or job, in other words. Either way they're a lot less likely to end up being useless later in life.
=Smidge=
Re:Or like an actual PARENT (Score:5, Insightful)
And if the government is going to be held responsible for the welfare of the children, and if the government is later responsible for supporting those children when they become unemployed adults, then they really ought to be permitted to use this kind of method to help. After all, being responsible for all of the children in the nation is a big task. They need some sort of tool for identifying, tracking, and measuring the status of each one.
Of course, if this is not the sort of thing you want the government doing, then put the responsibility back on the parents. Don't make "no child left behind" the issue that decides your vote. Don't vote for candidates who support widespread welfare programs. Because this is the natural result of that sort of thinking.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Potentially, but in reality almost never. And if there are consequences to it, they are artificially inflated by those in authority, just to teach a kid that obeying orders is the most important thing.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
College is another matter. I will agree that college is not for everyone, and may actually sacrifice certain options. However, since it's already difficult (but not impossible) to get a decent job before you're 18 in most places, there really is little harm in staying in school. If anything i
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Or like an actual PARENT (Score:4, Insightful)
Which is why Vocational Education is often treated as a dumping ground...
Don't wonder why the US has a shortage of SKILLED workers such as pipe welders (starting wage often is $20/hr plus per diem!) when physical labor is scorned. Let the droputs who want to VOLUNTEER go to vocational school, but don't inflict losers on the rest of the students who want to learn. It wastes their classmates and instructors time.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Anyway, the reply I thought I made went along these lines: I do agree with the adage in principle. It's called discipline. It does not have to take the form of physical punishment but can we agree that discipline in general is a good thing? The gist of the adage is that teaching your kid how to behave early in life, when the consequences aren't so grave, will save him/her (and possibly a l
Re:Or like an actual PARENT (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Or like an actual PARENT (Score:5, Insightful)
I am the parent of a teenager who, if we lived in Texas, might be subjected to this idiocy. The likely outcome if it were applied to her would be more resistance to authority, more risky behavior and a greater likelihood of catastrophic consequences, including inappropriate escalation of repression by dim-witted authorities.
Fortunately we live in a less pig-ignorant part of the country, so we were able to make other arrangements. They involved giving her more personal responsibility rather than imposing more restrictions and privacy invasions. For her this solution has worked. Another thing to keep in mind is that kids are different and what's medicine for one could well be poison for another. I don't trust a committee of state employees to be able to make this kind of assessment, and I trust them even less to make timely corrections if the approach isn't working.
What's lacking in all layers of the US government is adherence to the principle that people should be left alone unless they are doing something violent or predatory. Micromanagement like this is a symptom of deep pathology on the part of those doing the micro-managing. These idiots should be driven out of office and humiliated.
They are only free to screw up (Score:3, Insightful)
I think school was much better when the fear of punishment (the oppressive state) did very well in encouraging you to behave. The simple fact is, some of these people need to be whacked up side the head. They need a "big brother" though the government isn't the best option.
Here is the ques
Re:They are only free to screw up (Score:5, Insightful)
First off, I do agree that our school system has gotten weak, and that we don't enforce discipline. Discipline, btw, is the most importance concept in any modern debate involving education. Discipline, means responsibility and consequences, or course, both of which are lessons we are sorely lacking.
When I was in the school system (in the early 90s) far more time was spent telling me that Mexicans and Black people were people too, and that I should respect them, than teaching me math or reading skills (much less "critical thinking" skills), to me this was an unconscionable crime, with the latter the former is obvious, with the former your nothing more than a tolerant, but illiterate, imbecile.
I take affront, though, at your last line. The rights of individuals always trump society, unless those rights conflict with the rights of other individuals. Society, as such, has no rights, it is merely a collective of individuals. Holding society above individuals is the basis of all tyrannies and atrocities.
Just a little nit-pick.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Neither do adults.
For children you have three paths. The first is to help them realize that cooperating with those around them and being productive is the most effective long-term strategy for pursuing their happiness. The second is to convince them that the entire world is a bunch of screw-ups that are only vaguely kept in order through threat of vi
Re:Or like an actual PARENT (Score:4, Insightful)
Although there are some useful things to be learned in school, most skills beyond basic reading can be easily learned when one feels the need. I won a national competition in math, but now I remember zilch from high school algebra. I frequently come to work late and sometimes make silly excuses when I miss a meeting, yet I am one of the most productive employees in the team.
So if my daughter occasionally skips classes I don't see it as a grave offense punishable by making her wear a GPS tracking bracelets like convicted felons on probation. I will certainly talk to her and may cut off her entertainment activities for a time, but I will rather move out of the country than allow government to treat her like a criminal. If she just skips a couple of classes per month, I will just chuck it off to her being a kid.
Not everyone graduates. (Score:3, Interesting)
You can blame parents for failing to instill in their kids the idea that knowledge is valuable, but if they don't have it, electronically chaining them to the school is not the solution.
harder than it looks (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm lucky that my kids are sane a
Re:Really... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Really... (Score:4, Funny)
You know, like an older sibling.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Are those of you objecting upset because the kids are legally bound to attend school? Aside from that, I can't figure out what the problem may be.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I haven't complained yet but that is it for me. Of course, kids are not really legally bound to attend school because you can home school. I do not see how compulsory incarceration five days a week (excepting holidays) for 12 years of a persons youth is compatible with the idea of a free society, even if you do learn something while you are there.
I'm very much in favor of education, very much against compulsion schoolin
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Really... (Score:4, Insightful)
If I lived in that school district and they tried to put one of those Lo-Jack things on my kid, I would wield the ACLU and smite the school district with them while shouting "SMITE" (Bard's Tale fans rejoice!)
Do they have any idea what this sort of douche-baggery would do to someone psychologically? They put electronic tethers on convicts for crying out loud. These are OUR CHILDREN! Maybe there is a reason that children are fleeing our public schools in record numbers... and maybe that reason should be looked for somewhere other than the children!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
1. Big Brother
2. a buddy who wants to keep me safe and help me make parole
Is there really any doubt in anyone's mind what this is?
Re:Really... (Score:5, Insightful)
The students in the program were given the option of either submitting to GPS monitoring, or being placed in Juvenile Detention.
Whether or not you agree with the concept of house arrest, this seems like a logical extension of that concept to troubled youths.
Personally, I think this seems to have a much greater possibility of actually working than sticking all of the troubled students together in a prison-like environment.
At the very least, it's better than any of the other alternatives on the table.
Re:Really... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is an option, its when truancy gets to the point that the student is going to be taken to juvenile detention. I would much rather see the kids restricted to their own home and school rather than sent to kiddy jail. The environment there is NOT going to help them much. If anything, its going to further warp their view of authority and government and they will be worse coming out than they were going in.
As someone born, raised, and schooled in Dallas, I'm 100% supportive of this program.
Re:Really... (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, what is the inherent advantage of putting an obvious I-don't-want-to-be-here in a class "dragging everyone else down" (generality used on purpose, relax)? I mean, really?
I only see three options
These are serious questions
Re:Really... (Score:5, Insightful)
We know someone, somewhere will develope and sell this or similar technology and we need to know how we are going to answer back. Lobby congress to allow jaming technology? Doubtful that will happen. Create scanners so we can atleast know when we are being tracked? More likely, but only a partial solution.
Hopefully someone smarter than me can think of a solution to what I think is an inevitable problem.
Re: (Score:2)
You strap your phone to your ankle?
-mcgrew
OT but why all of a sudden am I getting a "slow down cowboy" after four minutes? That never happened when I was logged in before.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Really... (Score:4, Informative)
Fortunately, Congress doesn't get to legislate Maxwell's equations, and homebrew GPS jammers [notserver.com] are within the reach of hardhackers.
I'm sure outlawing GPS jammers will prove as effective as outlawing guns and heroin has.
Re: (Score:2)
The solution is to elect leaders who understand why privacy is important and who aren't being paid by these companies to make their "solutions" legally mandatory.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Bryan Adams High School? (Score:5, Funny)
A spokesman for the school administration added that "We can't stop this thing we've started.".
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
To quote the end of 1984:
He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn
what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless
misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast!
Two gin-scented tears trickl
I live in Dallas (Score:2, Interesting)
I have _never_ been more ashamed of this city than I am now.
Re:I live in Dallas (Score:4, Informative)
I live in the Dallas area, although I wasn't born or raised here. I don't think this is a reason to be ashamed of Dallas, just the Dallas ISD. The crap that the DISD board and administration pulls never ceases to amaze me.
Re: (Score:2)
Luckily, I grew up in the part of North Dallas that was serviced by Richardson ISD, so I never had to deal with DISD, but I've heard horror stories. Granted, RISD has its share of suck (or at least some schools did--they had quite a bit of leeway with their policies), but it was nowhere nearly as bad as what I've heard about DISD.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I live in Dallas (Score:5, Insightful)
Totalitarianism comes one small step at a time, never in one giant sweep.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure it does, just not in this case.
The problem is the left is blaming the right, and the right is blaming the left... the truth is that it happens at both extreme ends of the spectrum, and each side allows little bits at a time that jive with their perspective.
Of course, anyone that wants the government to stop and go back to it's size and scope from 100 years ago is labeled "lunatic fringe" and detractors don't even have to counter a
Re:I live in Dallas (Score:5, Insightful)
TFA clearly states that this is being used for kids with very serious truancy problems. It's not for some kid who's late a couple times. And if the kid prefers to wear the transmitter and go to school, great. And if not, he is detained under more traditional circumstances. At no time is the school system sneaking up on kids and tagging their ears -- this is a choice given to the kid and his family.
In theory, I agree with others around here that if it gets to this level, the parents relinquished control at some point. But be that as it may, until the kids are 16 they're not only the parents' responsibility, but the community's as well. You may take issue with the laws surrounding that issue, but that's not the point. The point is to make the child comply with existing attendance laws, and this seems to me to be a better way than locking them up with other kids who have screwed up their lives in whatever widely varying ways.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
you haven't been to deep ellum recently, have you?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Another non-smoking redneck town. Nothing worth seeing outside of Deep Ellum.
I have to agree. And even Deep Ellum may be going away; the city plans to rennovate it and turn it into the eastern version of the West End (the East End?). Yuck.
Dallas has been on one steady decline for years. All the places I remember going to as a kid are gone. All development is in Plano and Frisco now, and none of it is anywhere near as cool as what I grew up with in Dallas. Remember Olla Padrida? Good luck seeing anything like that in Nu Dallas/Greater Frisco anymore.
And you know what I also miss? Sm
Re: (Score:2)
. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it. That's what we did in the announcement I made last weekend on the public housing projects, about how we're going to have weapon sweeps and more things like that to try to make people safer in their communities.
Re: (Score:2)
You are a dumb-ass also.
Not big brother? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not big brother? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not big brother? (Score:5, Insightful)
Give him a shovel and have him work for a living.
Forcing an extended artifical childhood on people is highly unnatural and
only leads to an obvious conflict between authority and instinct. If people
don't want to go to school then don't force them. Schools should be places
were those interested can get ahead, not some sort of prison. Treating schools
as prisons and daycare just undermines their alleged goal.
If you can't keep the truant interested than the school has failed to be relevant.
Re:Not big brother? (Score:5, Insightful)
Give him a shovel and have him work for a living.
Forcing an extended artificial childhood on people is highly unnatural and
only leads to an obvious conflict between authority and instinct. If people
don't want to go to school then don't force them. Schools should be places
were those interested can get ahead, not some sort of prison. Treating schools
as prisons and daycare just undermines their alleged goal.
If you can't keep the truant interested than the school has failed to be relevant.
If the truant students would stay out of class, my kids could get a decent education. But no, they force these disinterested, undisciplined kids in to an already over crowded class room - and nobody learns anything. The teacher is there just to make sure everyone stays alive.
If they really want to scare these kids back into the class room - make them get a job from 8a-3p during school. After a few weeks of flipping burgers or shoveling cow shit - these kids might take school a little more seriously. And in the mean time they'll be paying taxes on their wages.
Profit!
Re: (Score:2)
Alot of the skippers are in the gang/drug/alcohol scene and
forcing them to be in the class makes it more likely for
problems to come up due to their "hobbies".
Most parents with rather that the hell raisers NOT be in the
school, or put them in a kids at risk school away from the
normal students.
I remember having to carry weapons to school just to keep
some of the more violent ones from rousting me for my wallet.
The kids with issues/records need to be to be placed away
from the normal
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
In short, you want him to get off your lawn?
Electronic restraints seem a bit extreme for that, it seems.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not big brother? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
No, it doesn't help if the
Must parents agree? (Score:5, Insightful)
I was going to say that I have a problem with it no matter what, but on second thought, I think the question should go to the parents. Minors have limited rights, and if the parents want to monitor them using tools the state provides, in order to keep them in school, maybe that's OK. (Personally, if it were my kid, I would consider this a very desperate measure - it certainly doesn't foster mutual trust and respect.)
On the other hand, if this is forced on students without parents' consent, then it's a big problem.
Consider this: parents have a right to know where their kid is at all times; the school should only be concerned about that during school hours. When is the tracking turned off?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe it's better to set up a check that if a student fails three tests in a row and has been absent for most of the time that student isn't fit to be present anyway and can choice between go dumpster diving or attend and learn something.
But of course - it's sure a lot funnier to gang up listening to hip-hop (or whatever it's called today,
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Jokes come true (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Jokes come true (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't be silly, prison is nothing like school;
In prison, you don't have to ask permission to use the toilet.
In prison, you have free time when you can think.
In prison, you can get time off for good behavior. If you do well in school, they give you extra work.
If they make you work in prison, they have to pay you.
If you escape from prison, the law comes after you. If you escape from school, the law comes after your family.
If prisoners get into fights, the guards separate them.
There are organizations dedicated to monitoring conditions in prisons, and keeping them from being inhumane.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The alternative is much worse (Score:5, Insightful)
* The kids in the program were on the verge of being sent to the Texas Youth Commission, aka Juvenile Detention.
* Once you're in the TYC, you're likely to be beaten, raped, and held indefinitely [washingtonpost.com].
When the choice is between being treated *like* a criminal, versus learning to *be* a criminal in Texas highly successful Criminal Conversion System, I think it's pretty obvious why any judge would choose to give the kid an ankle shackle instead of condemning him to (eventual) death.
Of course, the "choice" is mind-numbingly stupid. Now that the story of the TYC abuses has finally broken [capitolannex.com], maybe the next legislature will do something about the broken system that turns minor offenders into hardened criminals. Not likely, of course, because nobody ever got voted out of office for putting *too many* men, women, or children in jail.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
While I support education in all it's forms, I fail to see how forcing someone by law to be somewhere involuntarily for 6 hours / day 5 days / week 39 weeks / year for about 12 years can not be considered a form of imprisonment.
These cuffs sound like a natural progression of forced education. And of course only the children who resist will be subject to them. There's no need to impose more force on someone who choses to cooperate with their incarceration voluntarily.
Re:The alternative is much worse (Score:5, Funny)
sarcasm
Doublespeak? (Score:4, Insightful)
What's next? Tattoos on the backs of the necks of the little snowflakes? Where are these kids parents, why aren't they getting involved and paying attention to what their kids are doing?
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Where are these kids parents, why aren't they getting involved and paying attention to what their kids are doing?
Working four jobs, getting ready for the 5th move in a year, drunk/high in some alley, in a different state or country, dead, in prison, [insert something here].
Lots of these kids have 'rents who just can't pay attention to what their kids are doing, often 'cause their own lives are too messed up to even think about sorting out their kids. Find a study on truant kids-the usual risk factors boil down to socio-economics, which usual doesn't help with parenting.
Other parents just don't care if their kid
Sounds about right (Score:3, Interesting)
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin
Freedom includes the right to screw up. Trying to protect people from themselves is the worst kind of tyranny. I only wish more people would realize this.
Re:Sounds about right (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Just waiting for the watches... (Score:2)
Let's see, you could actually bill it as a PDA/ipod type of thing for the students productivity and give them limited student to student/faculty/parent communications. You get GPS tracking for everyone that takes you
Big Brother (Score:3, Insightful)
However, I don't, and I did quite fine all by my self. The government can't even keep track of laptops, how are they supposed to keep track of kids?
It's total bull, just like airport security, only more intrusive. Why do all these "tracking" programs get tested on school kids? Just to get them used to the idea so by the time they're adults, they don't know any better...
It's shameful.
"Big Brother"'s original purpose... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The Irony... (Score:2)
The irony in this statement is truly a sad thing to see. Clearly staying in school didn't do much for the author's education
Re: (Score:2)
He probably intended the irony, knowing both his employers and the intended audience would miss it.
I have no problem with it... (Score:2)
The problem is always that those with money/power/influence have more rights than those without and that imbalance inevitably leads to a bad place. Children are very lacking in all those areas which has lead to lots of legislation that restricts what children can do.
On a similar sub
I think it would be more effective if.... (Score:2, Flamebait)
Maybe then the little bastards might be motivated to stay in school.
Seriously though I think drop outs should be just dra
LOL! (Score:2)
Monitoring Bryan Adams? (Score:2, Funny)
This just reinforces the message that... (Score:4, Insightful)
I call BS (Score:4, Insightful)
Nerd v2.0 (Score:3, Funny)
How long will it be before that poor little bastard who always used to get stuffed into his own locker will be sitting in class with nine or ten of these things strapped from his ankles to his knees, and the threat of severe bodily harm hanging over his head if he complains.
Amazing (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyone who thinks this is a good idea is not only an idiot, but is also the vilest danger to the American way of life I can imagine. First it's criminals. Then it's truant kids. Then it's all kids in school - to protect against child abuse you know. Then it's everyone, and objection to the policy is immediate grounds for suspicion ("Why are you complaining if you've got nothing to hide?").
Funny thing is, when we try to hold our government or corporations or even school boards up to the same transparency, they immediately throw hissy fits and start claiming executive privilege and "losing" emails. Why are they complaining if they have nothing to hide?
Re:Buddy? (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Time to start weening yourself off of the sensationalist news a bit.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
As for the parent/family member part, they usually have a decent idea where their kids live, so they don't need a map to find them.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)