Chicago Links School Cameras To Police 156
Farakin brings us a story about how cameras in roughly 200 Chicago schools are being connected to police headquarters and the city's 911 emergency center. The goal of the effort is to "consolidate video surveillance," and it will involve both routine monitoring and real-time updates to officers on their way to a crisis. According the the Chicago Tribune, "The mayor acknowledged the cameras provide only limited security, citing a spate of shootings in recent days that have claimed young victims during after-school hours." The story also contains a video in which Mayor Daley indicated that he expects the cameras to serve as a deterrent now that people know they're under the eye of the police.
Big Brother knows best (Score:5, Interesting)
I predict nothing will come of this but a bunch of kids getting in trouble for flicking off the cameras. Or maybe someone will get creative and steal some of the cameras, now that would be awesome.
Re:Big Brother knows best (Score:5, Funny)
You are right, and now that there will be fewer law enforcement officers around, and kids know where the cameras are... well, you can imagine where the crimes will happen now, right? Anywhere but in front of the cameras.
Can I patent the business process used for this decision?
step one - unholster gun
step two - ensure that it is loaded
step three - aim at your own foot
step four - hold a press conference to announce your new plan
step five - shoot your foot
step six - make tougher anticrime measures^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H profit
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And yes, I dare say that some clever kids will have the fields of view of all the cameras mapped out within the week. Or someone will bring in a paintball gun. Or any other of the various and sundry methods capable of disarming cameras.
Either that, or they'll grab their nightvision goggles, their vests with the cellphone rig on the back, the fatigues, and just wait around for Jack Thompson to
Re:Big Brother knows best (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Big Brother knows best (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe I'm one of those grumpy people you mentioned...
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Or something like that.
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I've heard it said before, and see it already coming true: "What one generation tolerates, the next generation embraces". Kinda scary....pretty soon, no one will still be around that even remembers what it was like to NOT have cameras everywhere, and every move and purchase saved somewhere and potentially tracked.
*SIGH*
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They're just against things that can be broken.
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To which the response from Mayor Daley will be, "we just need more cameras". If history tells us anything, you can bet that the company that gets the contract for any new cameras and centralization work is owned by one of Daley's buddies/family? Welcome to Chicago!
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This seems perfectly logical to me... what part of it strikes you as odd?
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And it potentially is. Instead of a small set of local security officers monitoring activity, a much larger set of people, further from the scene, can watch everything. That opens up much more potential abuse and misinterpretations.
No use (Score:3, Insightful)
These cameras will give a false sense of security to some, and total useless to victims other than to maybe prove something after the fact. "Ya he got the S*** beat out of him for sure" or "ya he got stabbed, and we cant tell who it is in that hoodie" There is no replacement for having security where its needed, and not where its not.
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They do. That's why there are cameras in the toilets.
Hey, if illegal drugs sell for high profit... Police department needs funds, right ?
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I wonder if a nice red, or GREEN laser would knock out these cameras...??
Treating the symptoms. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Treating the symptoms. (Score:5, Insightful)
Because the kinds of people who's careers and businesses are tied police, military, and incarceration programs are very different from the kinds of people who are social workers. Guess which personality types run DHS?
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Without a Clause, Big Brother without a cause. (Score:4, Interesting)
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You're also assuming that these cameras will actually do something. Are you sure that's a good assumption? Because this sort of non-logic has been debunked over and over and...
priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
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Honestly.... 40,000 salary plus some benefits.
Cameras are cheap.
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Re:priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
The student himself is a good student, he has no issues, he just said something that is out of line. Yet my brother got yelled at for not reporting him to the office. You know what would've happened to the kid if the other teacher reported it? One stupid statement and one slip up and this kid is sent to the principle, then a counselor is brought in, then psychiatric help, and his parents are called in. For one little slip up the kid is attacked from all angles as the bad guy. Nothing is really solved and the kid learned nothing about what he said, hes just told not to say statements like that anymore.
Back in 1995-96 I was still in grade school, one of my classmates had a pocket knife on her key chain. When our teacher saw it, she told her not to bring it back to school and to remove it. Today if that happens, a school police officer is notified, the kid is detained, and finally expelled from school for a week. So instead of a kid spending a week in class learning, the kid is at home sleeping and watching tv.
The thing is, you cant just hire new teachers. You need to hire competent teachers to teach the children and to shape them into good people. You ask me who has had the most influence in my life and I name my dad and then teachers, coaches, and professors. Not Michael Jordan, or Rappers, or anyone like that, I name people who have directly influenced me.
Teachers (and no, I don't mean all of them) don't look out for the better good of the student anymore, they look out for their own job. And we wonder why the education system is failing.
Misplaced Blame? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Sickening (Score:1)
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Now it's the security guard behind the front desk of the big office building where you work.
Not much difference, really.
Big brother (Score:2, Insightful)
previous art (Score:2)
Didn't they miss something? (Score:2)
paranoia (Score:2)
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Since you're redesigning the system so that it only functions
Group punishment? (Score:5, Interesting)
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You know a great excuse for this? To slow/stop teacher/student sex. Go to fark just about any day of the week and you'll see some teacher or sub being arrested for having sex with student. The school can say, yes we screen all personnel for sex offenders so that the
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One student flips out and goes on a killing spree, therefore all other students need to be monitored from now on -- that seems like a treatment, not a cure, for the problem.
I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but it's not about one student flipping out.
There are many public schools that are happy places of learning and there are also public schools that require students to wear clear/mesh backpacks, have metal detectors at the front door & have bullet proof glass for teacher's offices.
If surveillance pushes "bad" student acts outside the school, it has served its purpose. Think of it as a preventative measure.
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One student? What would you say for if you were the parent of a child who was killed by a student who just "flipped out"?
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Somehow, I don't think so.
I think the intresting bit is at the end of the st (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the intresting bit is at the end of the story, 50 police officers were to be hired, but budget reasons (cuts?) led to a delay of a full month before they could start training. Meanwhile a program to get cops on the beat and civilians to do the paper work was also delayed, again seemingly because of budget reasons.
Note that it is purely MY speculation that the budget reasons were cuts, but it is hard to imagine how for instance an increase in budget would cause a delay.
There is actually a rather neat trick that you can pull with this. I announce a new plan to hire 50 cops. Nice headline, people feel good about it. Delays are caused and the program is scaled back. Sometime later I announce that 40 cops have been hired. Nice headline, people feel good about it, 90 new cops on the beat... AHA! You spotted it eh?
If I am really good I also silenty get rid of 60 cops and score another headline NOT with the firing but with the budget savings I have been managing. Ain't I good, can you guess how the next election will go?
The problem is simple, you need to follow the news in depth and keep on a story and anything that might relate to it. For instance the increased budget for the DHS from which this camera system is payed, where does that money come from? Could it even be that the reason the budget office did not have the money for civilian office workers and the new cops was because the money went to the DHS instead?
But people hate in depth reporting, note how many people here scream bloody murder when a new development in SCO is reported or shout DUPE when an article is really an update. For many people news is what is happening now, but for a crafty politician that leads to an easy way to pull the wool over everyone's eye.
Re:I think the intresting bit is at the end of the (Score:2)
Re:I think the intresting bit is at the end of the (Score:2)
You don't lay them off (Score:2)
You allow early retirement, don't replace those who leave and don't expand as the city the police works in expands. Simple stuff.
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Of course, that's not the reason for the "shrinking police force" you describe. The reason for that is tighter city/county budgets. Not every city thinks it's a great idea to raise taxes to hire more cops.
Predictable (Score:5, Insightful)
Morons. Giving your rights and freedoms away like it was candy.
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False Alarms (Score:3, Interesting)
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School systems suck for the kids in them, especially public...ESPECIALLY PUBLIC...(especially Chicago)
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Our school district did something similar (Score:4, Informative)
Getting beyond the school shootings scenario, the biggest problem at schools in our area is vandalism. Students sneak into the building, trash classrooms, equipment, the athletic field, etc. Now the DVR will record them, and if the alarm is triggered the police view the video feed to learn where they are in the school, how many there are, and if they are armed.
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Getting beyond the school shootings scenario, the biggest problem at schools in our area is vandalism. Students sneak into the building, trash classrooms, equipment, the athletic field, etc. Now the DVR will record them, and if the alarm is triggered the police view the video feed to learn where they are in the school, how many there are, and if they are armed.
This is a good point. The school I went to has had a handfull of breakins, resulting in tens of thousands of dollars of theft and damage. They have never caught any of the people involved. Part of that is probably just laziness on the part of the police, but still cameras would have been very nice there.
At the same time I would absolutely refuse to allow any school that my kids were attending to treat them like prisoners - I do not want our children to grow up thinking that Big Brother tactics are normal a
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Security cameras should be outlawed altogether! (Score:2)
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cameras (Score:5, Insightful)
What once was unthinkable will become commonplace. The first few years, kids will rebel, maybe even take down a camera or two, obscure its picture, that sort of thing. Given enough time, the kids are sufficiently inured to the cameras, and they wont even see them anymore.
Kids that dont notice cameras will grow to be adults that dont notice cameras. Thats the whole point of this exercise. Get em while their young.
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Close Stable Door After Horses Are Off and Away (Score:4, Insightful)
It's also no deterrent at all. We've seen from the vast majority of shootings that those involved are quite willing to shoot first, and then shoot themselves so that there are no consequences. The notion that cameras are going to be a deterrent is well wide of the mark.
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ALL kids have access to weapons that allow them to kill people very easily. This is not only in the US, but in every country in the world. Don't fall for the "guns are evil" line. Don't underestimate the amount of damage that can be done with a glass jug of gasoline combined with a bicycle lock, or a car. Removing access to weapons is simply not physically possibl
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Ahhhh, this is the classic delusion that comes out every time when the issue of guns is discussed. Which is easier? Shooting people from a hundred yards whilst being able to make a swift get away, or havi
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The reason you have to keep repeating this piece of "logic" is that it is utter BS, so people dismiss you as not having valid i
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You're waaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy off on a tangent because you don't have a clue how to answer the general argument. Arguing about what a yard
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If you have a response to the argument that guns are fundamentally different weapons compared to anything else in terms of the distance and ease with which fatal injuries can be made, I'm all ears. Anything else is just mental gymnastics and denial.
It's self-evident you don't know what a gun's primary purpose is, which is a tad worrying.
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You are either a liar or an idiot. It is well established that guns have more the single purpose of killing people. Of course, your not interested in what guns are or are not for. You think they are evil, and are willing to lie to get others to believe the same way.
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I've shot hundreds of rounds from dozens of guns in my life, and I haven't killed a single person. Mind telling me where I went wrong and misused those guns?
Re:Close Stable Door After Horses Are Off and Away (Score:4, Insightful)
All handguns are effectively banned in Chicago, all weapons are registered with the city, and Cook County laws are not much less strict, same goes for Illinois state law -- Illinois has more restrictions on who may possess firearms than Canada, and all the laws in the world wouldn't have done much to prevent the NIU shooting.
Selling firearms across state lines without going through a Federally licensed dealer is also criminalized, so it's not the fault of adjoining states with less controls. And if availability is the issue, then why wouldn't these incidents be more common in places outside of Chicago, Illinois, a city with laws that go beyond any laws Hillary or Barack would admit to dreaming of for America?
These "weapons that allow them to kill people very easily" have been around for hundreds of years, the real question is what has changed in these kid's heads "that allow them to kill people very easily"?
If another young adult wanted to kill 5 people, he could just as easily bring in a kitchen cleaver or a few mason jars filled with gasoline; every teen has access to these, so there's something besides availability stopping the average teen from mass murder.
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It's trivially easy to do, and get away with. You can't prevent absolutely everything from crossing state lines unless you have stop and search checkpoints.
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we have quite a few subcultures in our country with no regard for human life. we have men spa
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Lack of surveillance is not the problem.
Availability of weapons is not the problem.
Only 200 cameras? (Score:3, Informative)
I wonder what the teachers think? (Score:2)
Or perhaps the parents will demand access to the feeds so they can monitor their own kids, and open a whole new can of worms. Once the technology is in place, its only natural that the parents should take an interest in monitoring their own kids education. What good parent wouldn't? And I'm sure all sorts of unexpected 'in
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All it would take would be a couple of those, or proof of the students harassing the teachers to cement their usage.
The big problem here is getting the population to expect this depredation of their liberties by starting with kids. When those kids grow up they'll think it's nor
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Luckily, in South Korea, only old people watch streaming video of the children's classroom.
Indoctrination (Score:5, Insightful)
details on implementation? (Score:2)
D
Good! (Score:2)
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I'll agree with you wholeheartedly on how ridiculous it is to be punished for standing up for yourself. I went to a private HS myself, and we had our share of annoying asshats. During one class period round about my 3rd year, I had been catching hell all day from a few of s
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Yeah, you are probably right about the number of "entitled" pricks who to go to private schools just so they can wear those funny outfits and brag about being elite on their college resumes. Unfortunately, the cost of private education is pretty high and this brings us back to the public school system where something has to be done. I am sure it is possible to find some decent private schools that are not made for the cream of the crop.
Not having to listen to the gov't is one of the major advantages of
Lets change one sentence a bit for fun. (Score:2)
Calling Captain Obvious (Score:2)
It's the guns, stupid!
Re:Calling Captain Obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
It's the callous disregard for human life, stupid!
The Chicago police and video cameras don't prevent crime, they commit [cbs2chicago.com] crime. And then do it again [foxnews.com]. And again [chartsky.com].
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The road to hell... (Score:2)
And a few cans of spray paint can cure many ills.
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It's impossible to explain (Score:2)
I met some of the most corrupt sick people I have ever met in my life when I worked as an IT manager for a CPS school. Not the other IT people, they were quite amazing; but the upper administration of CPS and a great deal of the teacher's unions.
There will be shitloads of blac
A modified old saying... (Score:3, Insightful)
Think of the children! (Score:2)
Why not fight the cameras with a "OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!1!" campaign?
After all, if the cameras are in school, they'll be taking pictures of young kids. What's to prevent those pictures EVER falling in the hands of big bad child molsters?
Isn't that why they're banning camera phones, cameras etc from parrent attended events in school? If so, why the fuck should live feeds be allowed?
School Uniform: Orange Jumpsuit (Score:2)
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Um... guns are contraband, in Chicago.
And no, they can't just drive to Indiana -- transacting handguns across state lines, without going through an