Does Hacking Grades Warrant 20 Years in Jail? 455
While there have been many students who decided they would rather change their grades than come by them the usual way, the punishments for the most part have been pretty reasonable. However, the latest chapter in this type of behavior finds two culprits facing a $250,000 fine and 20 years in jail based on the number of charges leveled against them. "The guys have been charged with "unauthorized computer access, identity theft, conspiracy, and wire fraud." Obviously, these guys did a bad thing, but it's hard to see how the possible sentence matches with the crime. Of course, it seems unlikely that any judge would give them the maximum sentence, but even hearing that it's possible just for changing your grades seems ridiculous."
Confusing The Issue (Score:5, Insightful)
Imagine some jerkwad walked into a 7-11, got a Slurpee, tried to walk out without paying for it, then shot the clerk when the clerk confronted him. Then imagine the Slashdot article saying "this guy could get the death penalty just for stealing a Slurpee."
That's an extreme example, but it gets my message across. They're being prosecuted not only for what they did, but how they did it.
Also, if you read the original press release [usdoj.gov] from the DOJ, it states: "The charged counts carry a maximum punishment of 20 years in prison and/or a $250,000 fine. However, the actual sentence will be determined at the discretion of the court after consideration of the Federal Sentencing Guidelines, which take into account a number of variables, and any applicable statutory sentencing factors."
So even the Feds, while stating the maximum possible sentence (probably for the deterrence value), are admitting that the actual sentence depends on a lot of factors and probably won't be the maximum. Although giving these guys double-dimes in the pen would send a message.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The correct term for that is 'hyperbole'.
A better analogy would be stealing the key to the secretary's office, and then loaning it out for a fee. In that case it they would be charged with a misdemeanor and be treated quite differently than someone who had held up a bank.
Re:Confusing The Issue (Score:5, Interesting)
So you don't think that the unauthorized access to the secretary's office with a stolen key would be charged as breaking and entering? That the stealing the key for the purpose of loaning it out for a fee wouldn't add additional counts of accessory to burglary, aiding and abetting, etc. They wouldn't tack on conspiracy, vandalism, fraud, and whatever else they thought they could make stick?
And when you tallied up all the maximum sentences for all those crimes, wouldn't they be in the neightborhood of 20 years?
Hmmm?
Re:Confusing The Issue (Score:5, Insightful)
Bottom line -- it doesn't matter why he did it, it only matters what he did. We don't go easier on defendants who murder someone because they were only trying to keep everyone from finding out about their secret extramarital love affair.
OTOH, we do go easier on defendants who steal a $100,000 car to go joyriding. Technically, they could be charged with grand theft auto, but because joyriders generally return the car from whence it came, we call it a misdemeanor and give them a little community service instead of 15 years in prison.
There are complex legal issues that need to be sorted out and dealt with when it comes to computer criminal statues, especially becuause they are so new. On one hand, kids who break into a system just to prove they can should get an easier sentence, just like the joyriders, IMHO. OTOH, changing grades, while juvenile, is breaking into a system for purposes of committing fraud. It's technically no different than the guy who breaks into a computer system to produce a fake id or to alter financial records.
Public policy on criminal penalties usually boils down to legislatures and jurists deciding severity based on the amount of damage to society.
The real question is -- is the kid who changed grades damaging society as much as the guy who breaks in to the bank computer to transfer $1 million into his personal account, a few cents at a time over the next 10 years?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Confusing The Issue (Score:4, Insightful)
Having said that, 20 years is by far too much for something like this. Some murders don't do this. People often forget just how harsh prisons are. Even a year in prison, plus a criminal record as a lifetime punishment, really is a significant penalty to pay. A criminal conviction can easily place an upper limit on their yearly legal income. Let's not forgot that simply being convicted, for a white collar criminal, means punishment for the rest of their life, by means of where they can likely be hired.
Re:Confusing The Issue (Score:4, Informative)
And most likely the final sentence (as was already stated) will not be twenty years. If you want to compare to murder, since we only have the maximum sentence for these crimes, we'll have to compare to the maximum sentence for murder. Speaking from the experience of a member of my family who was shot in their home by a thief trying to pay for their drug habit, the list of charges were (roughly): breaking and entering, illegal possession of a concealed weapon without license, possession controlled substances, theft, and felony murder. The perpetrator received a life sentence, and was released from prison on parole after less than ten years. I would imagine that even if the maximum sentence is given, the perpetrators will be eligible for parole in five years or less.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This has absolutely _nothing_ to do with terrorism or our response to it, and you know it. As has already been stated, the twenty years quoted is the _maximum_ cumulative penalty for all of the charges. The actual sentencing will almost certainly be significantly less than twenty years. If not, _then_ you can go screaming about us bowing to the terrorists.
Re:Confusing The Issue (Score:5, Insightful)
Incorrect. Motive and mental state are often used to determine punishment. Manslaughter, 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, etc.
Re:Confusing The Issue (Score:5, Interesting)
It does sound like such a tiny thing to go to prison for.. so you have the password to a server that tracks school grades so what? But because such a staggering amount of America's financial security is invested in insecure computer networks, they have to have extreme max penalties for hacking law violations- there have [wikipedia.org] been [wikipedia.org] hackers who caused millions in damages, and that's why the max penalties are so high- but the actual penalties are lower.. this 15 year old kid [wikipedia.org] hacked the department of defense in 1999 and only recieved 6 months in prision (because he violated his house-arrest parole). Of course the system does sometimes fail [wikipedia.org] but for the most part things are in place to allow a fair judge to hand down a fair sentence.
On to the part that I'm posting AC for, and why I'm replying to this particular parent.. when I was 17 I successfully got the highest-level access on my whole university's network (though I didn't even know it at the time). My friends ratted me out and I faced these charges and their terrifying max sentences.. but when the investigators found out that I hadn't actually done anything at all with it, and that in fact it was just on a disk forgotten under my bed for 3 weeks before they found me, they didn't even press charges! It was truly a case of: as you said.. other areas of law like copyright law and intellectual property need to be rewritten for the internet age but I think they've done a pretty good job setting things up for hacking legislation.
Re: (Score:2)
Change lock, redistribute new key, and maybe make sure there is nothing left behind (a broken window lock for instance).
Cracking multiple accounts (including an admin account)leaves the very real possibility of rootkits installed on machines, backdoors left all over the place.
Getting admin access allows you to leave invisible doors that only remodeling the room will fix (to over stretch a terrible analogy even further).
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
My VAIO laptop might have a longer battery life on a turnip than it does on the Sony battery that came with it.
Re:Confusing The Issue (Score:5, Insightful)
Now ask yourself if getting paid $5 to steal Mrs. Smith's gradebook and change a grade is worth 20 years in jail. Does it become worth a longer sentence if you have to be smarter to accomplish the same task?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Confusing The Issue (Score:5, Insightful)
As others have stated before me, its really not the act of changing the grades thats so bad. Its the methods employed in doing so.
Manually changing a grade in a gradebook with a pencil is not a criminal offense, but what if that gradebook was located in the teachers car, or home, or even in the school? The students could possibly have to break into any one of those locations. If they were caught, they would not be in court for changing grades, it would be for breaking and entering and possibly theft of personal property. Few people would be hard pressed to disagree with those offenses.
I'm not here to argue what should be deemed a reasonable sentence for computer crimes, but the information/data they were acessing really is secondary when considering the actions required to obtain it.
dude.
Re:Confusing The Issue (Score:4, Insightful)
As others have stated before me, its really not the act of changing the grades thats so bad. Its the methods employed in doing so.
Crime + computer != worse crime
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Ironically... (Score:4, Insightful)
Especially in an educational facility, I've been on both ends of this argument the hacker and the hacked, so trust me on this or don't, but data on government and facility wide access machines, is NOT secure and is ALWAYS suspect.
Of course, as far as I'm concerned, this is yet another reason NOT to worry about school, IMHO.
I did most of my learning as an "extra curricular" activity. It paid off dividends, while schoolwork and college work have yet to pay me a penny. In fact, most of my non "vocational" education has cost me dozens of thousands of dollars and haven't paid me back even a fraction of the cost involved. So IMHO, hacking grades is pointless, because neither straight A's nor straight F's will get you a job, or get you well paid, or anything. At best, you can slave away for straight A's so you can end up a boring, lifeless, possibly low paid, and certainly easy to fire cubicle monkey for the jock who learned how to run a business, or the geek who never showed up for class on time and barely passed gym or shop when he was in school.
Look around, history's brightest people, inventors, discoverers, all were either failures in school or not particularly shining examples of "classwork drones". Why? Simple, their attention was diverted to this thing called "life". And while you were trying to get ready to live your life one week of vacation per year of work at a time, they were living theirs... (and if they didn't get stupid with their investments, they probably continued to do so well past the time where you had a kid or three, a mortgage and car payment, none of which you couldn't afford... which in the end is the reason so many of us "geek" types end up broke... poor investments, of both time and money.)
Re:Confusing The Issue (Score:5, Insightful)
There might be something to be said later, if the judge slaps down the max, but that's an issue to take up once facts are in. At the moment, the article is really nothing but FUD and fumes.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Confusing The Issue (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Confusing The Issue (Score:5, Insightful)
If they had been smart, they wouldn't haven been caught.
If they had been smarter, they wouldn't have done something that stupid.
If they had been really smart, they wouldn't have had the need to change grades...
It's not only what you are able to do, but being able to choose wisly when to use your talents.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know that that is true. There are generally laws on th
The Rub is the Sentencing Guidelines... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, one can say that there was identity theft involved, but, what -really- happened? If the students used a password cracker to try and break in, then technically, yes, there was an identity theft because they logged in as someone else. However, this sort of an attack doesn't really constitute an identity theft in the sense we would reasonably define it - which is, using someone's personal information to destroy their life. Like, they weren't breaking into accounts to steal visa numbers and go on a spending spree. Yet, they are going to be charged with the crime, and the government is using a technicality to smear them in the public.
Such actions by the government will only undermine people's faith in it. As Princess Leia once said, "the more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
Re: (Score:2)
Right because if a judge wants to give you 10 years for jaywalking you should have to go through the appeals process.
What sentencing guidelines do is move the judiciary power into the federal power
Depends on the law, if its a federal law should not the people who make the law create the sentencing guidelines... BTW federal laws are tried in federal courts by federal judges so *yes* judiciary power in such places is going to be federal.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
> Sentencing guidelines are a mistake, and that's the whole problem.
>
> Right because if a judge wants to give you 10 years for jaywalking
> you should have to go through the appeals process.
The problem with this, of course, is the fact that you can't point to
as much as a single instance of this particular problem. Sentencing
guidelines are typically established because someone whines that
"criminals are getting off too easy". Their usual intent is to PREVENT
judges from meting out reasonable and jus
Re:The Rub is the Sentencing Guidelines... (Score:4, Insightful)
Sentencing guidelines - which, by the way, are not mandatory - do nothing to erode the power of the judiciary. Defining the possible range of sentences for an offense is not distinct from defining the offense itself. The notion of a "crime" includes both the proscribed act and the related punishment. It is philosophically unsound to pretend that the idea of a judiciary includes sole control over sentencing, unless you're willing to embrace judges choosing to impose incredible sentences (e.g. death, for theft) when they believe it fair.
All legislation is the Legislature imposing its will upon the Judiciary; without Congress telling the American Judiciary what is legal or illegal, the Judiciary would have nothing to do.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes they are. They prescribe a range within which the court/jury has discretion (channeled through a list of legislatively-sanctioned factors), but they a mandatory range.
"It is philosophically unsound to pretend that the idea of a judiciary includes sole control over sentencing, unless you're willing to embrace judges choosing to impose incredible sentences (e.g. death, for theft) when they believe it fair."
Except that the judge is checked by a
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Fear will keep them in line. Fear of communists, drug dealers, pedophiles and terrorists.
Besides, Tarkin's response was to blow up Alderaan. US government has nuclear bombs. Draw your own conclusions.
Re: (Score:2)
No, they don't. First, "sentencing guidelines" may or may not be adopted by a power outside of the judicial power, and where they are adopted by another power, its the legislative power, not the "federal" power distinct from the judicial power, which is an incoherent conce
Re: (Score:2)
Well, I give you points for using a Star Wars quote to illustrate part of your argument. And I agree that sentencing guidelines are a mistake in general.
Some type harsh monetary fine, or at the very least barring from any type of academic study is appropriate, but the sentence was arrived at for the wrong reasons. We are not hard enough on academic fraud. "It's just a letter," one might say, or "Everybody does it," or "It's just to get into a good school, no harm done." Bullshit. One, for every liar who g
Re: (Score:2)
Unless we are talking about France then the OP was right.
Re: (Score:2)
IANAL: If I recall, only in cases for which mandatory sentencing is in effect. In other cases, it is established by legal precedence.
Re:Confusing The Issue (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Confusing The Issue (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Plus, if you go back and watch again, the graphics are all ASCII graphics and are printed out to the screen at a believable bitrate. They're only vector graphics once in NORAD.
(And at the risk of aging myself, I had one during that similar era and it wasn't uncommon to see early BBS systems with ASCII graphics in the 81/82 timeframe -- and right around that time you did see systems like ReGIS showing up that would go graphics over sl
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And what if they had done it by erasing the braniacs name of his test sheet and writing your own in its place?
"Surreptitiously altering records"? check.
"knowingly"? che
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, they harm me more personally because they damage my capacity to act intellectually with their lies than the armed robber does.
Yes, I agree that it was an orchestrated scam and most definitely not an act of passion.
Yes, I agree that it justifies a greater sentence.
Oh, wait. You lost me at the end.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's easy for you to say... (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Catch me if you can (Score:2)
Look at Frank Abagnale Jr, for all the crimes he commited he spent less than 5 years in prison. He was then offered a deal to work with the government for free and then started his own firm based around catching fraud. He's worth more now than what he originally
Re: (Score:2)
To my knowledge, no western nation has ever announced that one and one alone of these goals was now "the" objective of their penal system. Far from it, pragmatics (i.e. how much money is available, per prisoner) has almost always set this issue. W
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, it is possible, but would you rather a more convoluted set of laws? A caluse for each concievable use of breaking this law
- data theft (private, confidential, classified,
- data destruction (see theft for caveats, for deleting data)
- data falsification (see theft for caveats, like destruction except data is made to look like it hasn't been modified)
And then yo
OK, who died here? (Score:2)
OTOH a couple of decades ago here in Springfield I had a friend named Danny, who drove a cab. He was taking a fare to the housing project and a gang banger walked up, put a gun to his chest, and demanded money. Danny had just started his shift and only had fifty cents on him (cabbies don't make
Re: (Score:2)
Just because all criminal justice is meted out with only a few currencies of punishment - fines, imprisonment, community service, public shaming - does not mean that offenses with identical sentences are somehow equal. It simply means they have the same "price" for the perpetrator.
Consider a $50 video game, and $50 worth of food. No one would say
Stupid link to another blog (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's the article at InforWorld. [infoworld.com]
Where I once worked we had a couple of student workers change their own grades, one caught after she had been accepted at University of Michigan, for which she was undoubtably given a right boot in the arse from them after we notified them she had changed her grade. She may well have displaced the next student in line, who was now elsewhere or changed majors as a result of not being accepted. Certain schools only take so many into a programme each year.
The consequences of changing grades can be dire. How about someone receiveing an engineering degree who doesn't really have the solid math background required, but had a friend who worked in the college records office.
We also sacked a student who changed her grades so she could continue to receive financial aid. Hurts nobody, right? Wrong. How about the student who deserved it but all the money in the scholarship fund was given to others, including the one who falsified records.
I, too, doubt the judge would make an example of them. It will probably be a fine and some community service, along with the stain on their records for being convicted of a crime, which would doubtfully make a positive impression upon prospective employers, unless Enron and Arthur Anderson were still in business.
As to this article, Seems a bit of a "slow news day" post. Why not something about how Martial Law in Pakistan has resulted in severed internet connections and how people might be coping.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, the date on the other blog post was the day before my source, so it might have been that there were many submissions and my
Link Scandal @ Slashdot? (Score:2)
Hmm. That certainly does smell fishy.
Re: (Score:2)
Hmm as for the article... I don't know if anyone wants to argue with you about whether changing grades is bad because it hurts others. That much is a given since school/uni/scholarships are competitive. Most folks are just keen to discuss the [uncalled-for] severity of the maximum possible punishment, and perh
Times have changed. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Times have changed. (Score:5, Insightful)
If TFA had been about someone at the school who let his laptop get stolen with all that sensitive information on it, slashdot would be full of people calling for his head. These guys break in, sell their access, and are suddenly martyrs because they got caught quickly, limiting the damage to changed grades? Bogus.
Also, beware the hyperbole. The court's job is to make sure that the sentence fits the crime, the listed penalties are maximums.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
For example, changing class grades to all F's could be a nice prank. Or creating 100 additional student records and enrolling those in a class (then have teacher looking for Hewood Jablowme, and Richard Hertz off the roster)...
If they did something like that, I seriously doubt they would be even arrested.
Re: (Score:2)
"There are no prisons in Ünderland, as the Baron has seen fit to impose the death penalty for all infractions of Ünderlaw"
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Instead of performing obvious cries for attention like hacking into your schools DB and changing your grades, just start working for the Russian Mob botting computers and sending spam.
DUH!
When will kids learn?
Fairer (Score:5, Interesting)
What's "pushment"? (Score:2)
Old laws and new crimes (Score:5, Insightful)
Like it says, the maximum penalty is unlikely (Score:5, Insightful)
Complaining about the maximum sentence shows lack of experience with matters of law. There are many, many laws in various countries that carry a substantial maximum penalty for a crime because the crime _can_ be severe but it can also be ridiculously petty.
For example, most countries carry the crime "theft" on the books and if that country only has one statute for any sort of theft, the maximum penalty will look harsh if it would be applied to someone stealing a candy bar. However, one has to consider that the same statute also covers stealing millions from a bank in which case a sentence closer to the maximum could be justified.
That's why we have HUMAN judges, with all their faults, instead of just a computer that checks if all the conditions for the crime is met and just prints a "default" sentence, because not every case is the same even if they are punishable under the same law.
Simple Solution (Score:2, Redundant)
I didn't place a lot of importance on my grades throughout school, but it's been proven that a person's grades affects many aspects of life. Other than employment grades affect financial assistance, insurances rates, and even leniency in the legal system. While grades aren't really legally binding in a court of law for anything many judges and juries will take good grades into consideration because statistics show that they tend to be law-abiding citizens. In a round-about way if you'
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Simple and authoritarian, what's not to love?
Re: (Score:2)
Wow. It's like you looked deep into my soul, man . . . how do you do it? I give up. Just gonna go smoke a pill, now. Maybe that'll erase the pain . . .
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
After all, since all laws are proper and right and they never can be struck down or challenged in court (which usually requires someone to break them first) why bother even having that system?
Re:Simple Solution (Score:5, Funny)
"I would do anything to pass this exam."
She leans closer to him, flips back her hair, gazes meaningfully into his eyes. "I mean..." she whispers, "I would do... anything."
He returns her gaze. "Anything?"
"Anything."
His voice softens. "Anything?"
"Anything."
His voice turns to a whisper. "Would you... study?"
Re:Simple Solution (Score:4, Funny)
I mean, I can be kinda weak sometimes...
Re:Simple Solution (Score:4, Funny)
Just to compare. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And that's the point many posters are making. The 20 year sentence is just in theory. It's highly unlikely their punishment will be anywhere near that severe.
Standard MO (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
1. Show me any statistics on this alleged proclivity of prosecutors;
2. Show me the definition of "torture" that includes a prosecutor saying "I have enough evidence to get past a grand jury for these counts against you.";
3. Show me a D.A. who has a documented record of having done any of the above as a means of avoiding their actual work;
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
How many new criminal laws are passed each year, and how many others sunset or ar
Re: (Score:2)
It seems... (Score:3, Insightful)
Troubling.
Re: (Score:2)
I doubt many law makers have the slightest idea how a mint prints mone
They've got bigger problems than this... (Score:5, Funny)
They're 29 and 28 years old and STILL in college!
Link to the full story [infoworld.com]
thinly related to education and computer crimes (Score:2)
In one case we have a clear case of people hacking a school computer system with fraudulent intent. In the other, the victim was penalized.
Is the US criminal justice system geared only to blame humans? If the culprit is a piece of software controlled by someone not in the jurisdiction of the court, are we always going to blame the victim?
In this case, the bad guys got caught, but like peo
What the real punishment for that would be (Score:3, Insightful)
It's bad enough to take a peek, but many are curious so that's not unusual, but whenever data is modified without permission it's a really bad crime. Even as tempting it may be some things are best untouched. If information is incorrect there are better ways than to modify it yourself.
In an earlier time.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Of course it needed... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What are good grades worth, though? (Score:2)
Adding the charges is unreasonable... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
There are an awful lot of "criminals" who are just people who make mistakes because they're young and stupid, or just in the wrong place at the wrong time (but still guilty of the crimes) or just feel like they don't have any other options. Saying that "generally speaking, criminals can not be rehabilitated" doesn't mean anything. Let's
what ever happend to just .. (Score:2)
Expel them and revoke all the credits they earned at the school in question.
Their inability to get admitted to another school or get a job will be punishment enough.
20 years should be enough to..... (Score:2)
Just consider it detention....
Depends (Score:2)
Were they studying to be doctors or some other profession where people's lives could be in danger? Would you want to go to a doctor that didn't really pass, but bought his degree instead?
lawyers don't do math (Score:3, Insightful)
Obviously, a much better formula would be more appropriate, something as simple as a geometric series, but the lawyers wouldn't understand it (and, let's face it, neither would the general public).
Jail populations and the symptoms of a society (Score:5, Insightful)
This inmate population is enough to populate any of the 13 least populated states [census.gov] in the USA.
I am not saying what these people did isn't wrong, but the crime sounds more like revenge that punishment. This kids will be in debt and slaves to the system by the time the get out. Any time they would have had to think about what they did will be marred by the excessiveness of the punishment. Maybe the American society is just looking to continue slavery, but using other means to do it?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Just asking.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Already a step [slashdot.org] ahead of you...