Intertrust Plans Universal DRM System 314
Rushmore and others wrote in with news that Intertrust, which has a large DRM patent portfolio, is planning a universal DRM scheme for consumer electronics.
"The pathology is to want control, not that you ever get it, because of course you never do." -- Gregory Bateson
Phew.. (Score:5, Funny)
That's good, I was worried that this fancy-pants DRM thing wasn't going to take off.
No faster way to kill DRM (Score:5, Funny)
Re:No faster way to kill DRM (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No faster way to kill DRM (Score:5, Interesting)
No, they want this new "Universal DRM System" to prevent exactly that.
22. What's TORA BORA? [cam.ac.uk]
This seems to have been an internal Microsoft joke: see the Palladium announcement. The idea is that `Trusted Operating Root Architecture' (Palladium) will stop the `Break Once Run Anywhere' attack
The whole thing runs on top of Trusted Computing. They are pushing for this new "Universal DRM system" becuase it is very very different. You will no longer own your own computer or your own devices. They will have a "Trust" chips inside that guarantee them control.
To "crack the system" you need to dig your own personal encryption key out of the chip soldered to your motherboard. Breif info on one such chip. [atmel.com] See page one "Physical security circuitry" and page 2 where it says "if it has been removed from the PC in any way and can also take actions internally"? That means chip is tamper resistant and programmed to wipe your key if it detects you trying to get at it.
And lets say you do manage to dig out the key - every computer has a different key! If you dig out your key that only cracks that one machine. One key extracted, one PC liberated. The TORA BORA plan includes plans for "traitor tracing". If you aren't extremely carefull how you use that key they will detect it and revoke that key. Hell, they might even track you down and throw you in prison.
And before people say they simply won't buy computers with these control chips built in I suggest they look at my other post here. [slashdot.org] In a few of years you may be denied internet access unless you submit.
-
Re:Phew.. (Score:2)
Say not to Digital Restriction Management!
Re:Phew.. (Score:3, Funny)
More info on intertrust (Score:5, Informative)
For those interested:
Intertrust [intertrust.com] holds alot of United States patents. Those are listed at the USPTO office [uspto.gov]
They also have a patent litigation [intertrust.com] against Microsoft covered by Slashodot [slashdot.org] earlier
Re:More info on intertrust (Score:4, Funny)
Ha! Anyone else misread this as "They also have a patent on litigation against Microsoft..."
Wouldn't surprise me....
I loves me some barratry.
Re:More info on intertrust (Score:5, Funny)
Unbelieveable... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Unbelieveable... (Score:5, Insightful)
I pay $50 a month for satellite and I cant even record any TV.
Cancel your satellite and be sure to tell them why you're cancelling it. Or keep it. Either way, you're voting with your wallet, it's up to you to decide how you'll vote.
Re:Unbelieveable... (Score:3, Informative)
oh, you'll be able to record... i mean, there are guys in the parking lot of the mall trying to sell me satelite decoders out of white vans every weekend. it'll only be a matter of time (measured in days) before the white van gang have the "satelite recorder" boxes.
Re:Unbelieveable... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Unbelieveable... (Score:3, Informative)
Useful trick (Score:3, Interesting)
When I hear or read about a new book I think might be of interest I just add it to my wishlist. Then once a month I review my list and see what the Used / Almost New price has dropped to. Just Got Digital Biology [amazon.com] published in Jan 2001 for $3 rather than the original $25.
Re:Unbelieveable... (Score:2, Insightful)
Same Old (Score:2)
And while I'm ranting off topic, FUCK YOU to the anti-fair-use people who won't let me skip previews on DVDs. I paid for use of the movie I bought. There should be no limitations placed on me with respect to previews and my ability to NOT watch them.
Who are these people who create these rules?
Re:Same Old (Score:3, Informative)
Problem is, we have a 5 disc changer. When an audio CD ends, it will spin up the next disc. If the next disc is a movie, but I don't want it to play, I instinctively it STOP. Depending on the movie, I'll see some message like "Cannot stop at this time", or something very clearly telling me I'm not allowed to stop.
I'm just trying to stop the whole damned thing, I'm not even trying to skip content. So my only
Re:Unbelieveable... (Score:2, Insightful)
Nice try troll.... (Score:5, Insightful)
That, my friend, is time-shifting, a legal fair use, as defined under the Betamax desision.
Re:Nice try troll.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Hrrm (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Hrrm (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hrrm (Score:5, Funny)
When all you have is a hammer, every customer begins to look like a nail!
Re:Hrrm (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hrrm (Score:5, Insightful)
I buy nothing with DRM.
NOTHING.
It might very well be here to stay but if that ends up being the case I'm not going to be the asshole who made it that way. Society, if it feels strongly enough about this to want to do something should make it our collective "mission in life" to make any product with DRM built in a financial failure. The only way they're going to stop pushing DRM down our throats is if we convince them that there's no money in it and that the consumer will not buy it.
sneaking it in (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:sneaking it in (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't forget cell phones, most commercial videotapes, cable set top boxes, Palm Pilots, Newtons (ok, kinda dated),
Most forms of "DRM" are fairly innocuous. For example, the "you can't beam this program to anybody else" flag on many commercial Palm programs isn't too unreasonable. And when the cable or satellite company scrambles thei
Re:Hrrm (Score:2, Funny)
NOTHING.
Bully for you. You won't be like all the other /. ranters who then add in a whispter, "after the Return of the King comes out on DVD." Or whatever movie/music you just gotta have.
Yes, because DRM'd standards don't take off... (Score:3, Insightful)
a) All the reasons it was better than VHS
b) that DivX (no, not the codec) lost and so the lesser evil won.
So will the latest DRM be too. Your AMD Athlon 64 or Intel Prescott whatever with the latest "Trusted computing"-mobo and other certified components. So will those HD-DVDs etc. as well. They'll be a lot cooler, and with less DRM than a really draconian
Re:Yes, because DRM'd standards don't take off... (Score:4, Funny)
With the direction most movies and music are going, this doesn't sound like such a bad idea...
Re:Hrrm (Score:3, Informative)
The iPod does read like a USB mass storage device, the "DRM" consists of making the music folder hidden. That's all. On Windows, say Show Hidden and you'll never even know it was there. This is quite different than actual DRM with authorization checks.
Re:Hrrm (Score:2)
I believe the article said or strongly implies that copies cannot be made. Pure speculation, but I assume that this means that it's some system whereby when a file is copied, the DRM dictates that the original must be destroyed.
Re:Hrrm (Score:3, Funny)
DRM here to stay? I think the whole of Asia will have something to say about that.
"BigBrother.com" now available (Score:5, Informative)
Re:"BigBrother.com" now available (Score:3, Insightful)
In other words, we are collectively shorting ourselves in the long term for short term profits and security.
This sucks.
Re:"BigBrother.com" now available (Score:3, Interesting)
No, they are trying to force Trusted Computing into every new computer and electronic device. They want to seize control of everything. Before you accuse me of being a paranoid loon, look at this:
Richard Clarke
Special Advisor to the President for Cyberspace Security
March 16, 2002:
"I think we need to decide that from now on IT security functionality will be built in to what we do, to the products that we bring to market." [bsa.org]
"That in effect we are saying to
Did they... (Score:5, Funny)
...just say "DRM" and "Open Standard" in the same sentence?
Re:Did they... (Score:3, Funny)
You just did as well.
Re:Did they... (Score:3, Funny)
oh.. you're right..
ack.. arrrgh! I'm mellllltiiiiinnnnnnnggg!!!....
Er, consumer? (Score:5, Insightful)
Err.... Last time I checked, sales were more dependant on the consumer than the peddler. I'd hope it's more important to convince consumers their right to use what they are investing in isn't in jeopardy.
Good luck selling non-DRM electronics... (Score:3, Insightful)
...if all media that MOST people want to listen to is DRM-only. Of course, since a DRM-free market will sell more shit than a DRM-crippled media market, manufacturers WANT you to have as much freedom as possible, as it's good for their profits.
The only problem with that is that some of the major hardware manufac
Re:Er, consumer? (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, needless to say that the market already exists, and flourishes in the ways we're all familiar with. That they don't recognize that is the fault of their own hubris. The works (songs, movies, etc.) are obviously already available online for phree. But it's t
Re:Er, consumer? (Score:3, Interesting)
Err.... Last time I checked, sales were more dependant on the consumer than the peddler.
It's companies that think like this that make small business possible. The stupid, lumbering companies who don't know their arse from a hole in the ground. The companies that have HR folks interview someone for job X who have never
Re:Er, consumer? (Score:3, Insightful)
Unfortunately you are exactly half right. Microsoft is forcing it on the world, so it isn't a "non-starter".
Microsoft has announced that thier next operating system (Longhorn) will come with a "Nexus". The system will only fully function on a motherboard with a Trusted Platform Module inside. This is also known by many different names suc
*sigh* (Score:2, Interesting)
Although DRM will stop pirates, it stops legit users too.
Fortress of Insanity [homeunix.org]
Re:*sigh* (Score:2)
1. SAMS system on DAT players/recorders. (oh...why would you want to copy your original recording?)
2. Sony and the MD crisis. (That was cool. Now; how do I get the blasted music OFF the fsckin recorder?)
There are always ways.
legitimate users too? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:*sigh* (Score:2, Insightful)
I made my DVD player region free so I can play DVDs from any region. DRM didn't work. I only have one non-R1 DVD (Crouching Tiger which was released in R3 long before R1). I disabled my DVD player's Macrovision "feature". Again, DRM didn't work. I don't know why I'd ever want to record a DVD to VHS but I'm not going to let some corporate clown prevent me from doing it. When I was
Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
Pirates... I feel so silly just using that word...
Adoption rate (Score:2, Insightful)
Oops (Score:2, Insightful)
Stable Door... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that there are perfectly good alternatives without DRM technology. Why would anyone by something new that restricts their existing options? Even worse, why would a consumer pay the extra $x for their media player to buy the rights from a DRM patents company?
Perhaps it's time companies stopped chasing after the music DRM market, let it go, and simply learned their lessons for the still [largely] unfought movie market?
Re:Stable Door... (Score:2)
Re:Stable Door... (Score:2)
You say that as if that would be a Bad Thing...given what gets passed off as "music" nowadays, I'm not so sure that would necessarily be a Bad Thing.
Re:Stable Door... (Score:2)
Re:Stable Door... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Stable Door... (Score:2)
Re:Stable Door... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, there will be people who can get around whatever restrictions, but if DRM is built into everything, it becomes harder for the avg joe to get around them.
Most people won't complain about these issues if it comes slowly... first, the broadcast flag will be used very very sparingly... then a little more, except that they'll sell that tv show to you through your cablebox at 3:00 am in the morning when you want to see it--- then pretty soon, that will be the format for everything.
The good news is that anything you ever want to see will be available for a cheap price (because of competition).
The bad news is that anything you ever want to see will be available for a cheap price (nothing will be free, except infomercials).
-chris
Re:Stable Door... (Score:5, Insightful)
In meatspace, the infrastructure is moderately open. For example, although the RIAA has a great deal of marketing power and well-established channels to sell CDs, it's still possible for Joe Public to publish content. The Internet is far more open than this - the effectiveness of word-of-mouth marketing is amplified, and publishing is much easier. But a DRM infrastructure would almost certainly be totally closed.
If mandatory-DRM devices become popular, or worse, legally required, then to publish anything, you have to talk to the DRM authorities. Instead of many fine-grained copyright based monopolies, there'd be one ubiquitous DMCA-based monopoly, and no competition.
Re:Stable Door... (Score:2, Interesting)
Not even Intel, AMD, and Microsoft combined have the influence to "lock-in" everyone, I don't think its possible. Anybody here read Stev
Re:Stable Door... (Score:5, Insightful)
The only scenerio that makes *any* sense to me is if some new DRM device came on the scene and had inexpensive access to a massive library of content. Such as a set-top box with access to nearly every movie or TV show ever made -- no restrictions on when you watch them, how often you watch them, as long as you paid your monthly fee.
The problem is the DRM pushers want expensive usage fees, content packages, content limits and all kinds of other restrictions that make it undesirable AND they want to DRM it.
I think they'll be able to sell DRM once they realize that the flat fee and a huge library will make people notice the DRM less. Until then...
What is the object of DRM systems? (Score:5, Insightful)
In this case, it is more instructive to look to the profit motive. When they implement a new DRM system, they can sell us new CD and DVD players, and new CDs of all the old music that we've bought (twice, maybe) already. The "replace your old LPs" profit center was a huge one, until it was knocked down by (1) DVDs and (2) saturation. Now, they are hoping to recreate it through technical means.
Re:What is the object of DRM systems? (Score:2)
Universal = Better? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this DRM here to stay? (Score:2)
Remember 3 years ago when it was said that we'd all have harddrives with built in DRM by now? Where are they?
Re:Is this DRM here to stay? (Score:3, Funny)
They're putting them in the flying cars.
Wait... wrong thread. I meant they're being used for the new, improved rings of power.
Re:DRM hard disks (Score:2)
Let's Limit Patents (Score:5, Insightful)
After all, the original purpose of the patents and trademarks system was, "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries (United States Constitution, Section 8)."
It doesn't say anything about promoting or supporting a "rights market" for clever business people.
Re:Let's Limit Patents (Score:2)
Please no, i have this bright idea of starting a company to patent DRM.
Shares anyone ?
And it will be as crackable... (Score:5, Insightful)
How many times did we hear rumours of pay-per-run services being the wave of the future in the last 10 years? But the best way to keep this from being adopted, is for us as the consumers to boycott such products in the stores and for us as the voters to remember what democratically elected individual supported the adoption of the DMCA-like laws required to back it up.
F-IW [abelard.org]...ank
Re:And it will be as crackable... (Score:2)
Of course, the "analog hole" will pretty much always be around. But the joy of ripping the raw bits off the disc may be a long wa
Not to worry... (Score:2)
This is great news! (Score:5, Insightful)
Global Revenue Streams (Score:3, Insightful)
I love this Logic... (Score:5, Insightful)
So let me get this straight:
1. Companies encrypt their data
2.
3. Digital sales of media are "boosted"
They're leaving out the entire... well... consumer and adoption step that I think is a bit important. Just because they build it, it doesn not mean that people will come. Didn't they learn anything during the
Lack of diversity will lessen protection (Score:5, Insightful)
One Phrase, Two Meanings (Score:3, Insightful)
"Consumers want an open system, and the electronics industry wants it too," Ruud Peters, chief executive of Philips's intellectual property and standards unit, told Reuters.
That's the finest example of "two different meanings for the same phrase" that I've seen all year. Consumers have most of the "open system" they want right now.
Wankers.
Prediction: DRM will continue to hurt the economy (Score:5, Insightful)
"DRM is an accelerator which will boost digital sales of media, because it will convince media companies their content is protected. It should not be a competitive weapon," he added."
This quote is simply wrong. DRM has already damaged sales of hardware and content. I predict that increased DRM will not be an accelerator but will continue instead to be a de-accelerator and drain on the economy which will reduce digital sales of media.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." -- Edward R. Murrow
Re:Prediction: DRM will continue to hurt the econo (Score:3, Interesting)
I share your hope that some iTunes-alike will convince the RIAA to allow unencumbered distribution. Wouldn't it be great if ther
ok and not ok (Score:5, Interesting)
"The electronics industry recognizes that Microsoft is a formidable player, but consumer electronics makers do not want to become dependent on Microsoft. They need an interoperable and independent system," Peters said.
DRM sucks, DRM is evil, DRM is the tool of terrorists, robber barons, and Republicans. That having been said, though
Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to see no DRM at all, and I intend to vote with my wallet as much as possible. But if DRM does happen anyway, I would have a very strong preference for Intertrust instead of Palladium. At least with Intertrust there's the possibility that some vendor will offer a Linux version of the protected player.
Oh Boy! (Score:5, Insightful)
Really though, if it weren't for all this cat and mouse shit, all these parasite companies wouldn't exist and all the crackers would have to get a real life...
You can't have too many universal DRM schemes! (Score:2, Informative)
At least for a while...
Revolving door that screws the customer (Score:5, Insightful)
Increased prices lead to decreased sales. DRM get's cracked, sales increase and companies yell that they are losing money to piracy. To offset this potential loss of money, they increase prices.
They spend millions more to create new DRM to hinder people from doing what they would like with what they had paid for. Increase the cost to offset this spending.
It just continues.
anyone catch the following in the article?
"'Consumers want an open system, and the electronics industry wants it too,'"
[very next paragraph]
"Microsoft, for instance, has opened music stores on the Internet that sell music encoded in such a way that they can only be played back with a Windows Media Player."
how is this good for the consumer or even open for that matter?
I used to work at intertrust (Score:3, Funny)
Name change needed (Score:3, Funny)
2035: a reflection (Score:4, Interesting)
The FBI stopped by to see me earlier this morning.
Apparently, they found an unlicensed compiler on one of my student's computers. Copyright central has visited the campus on more than one occasion, so I expected this to be fairly routine. Far from it - for the better part of the morning, they questioned me about this kid's activities. Being a college professor, I couldn't tell them much. This was probably the first time that a student was glad his professor didn't pay more attention to him.
I don't think he's been charged yet, but I was able to discover the nature of what he'll be charged with. The unlicensed compiler is problematic, though not technically illegal since it can't sign object code (illegally). Instead, he was found with a great deal of original material - some dating back 10 years or more - that was never registered with the copyright office. Some was on paper, but most of it was on disk. At a dollar per kB, he's looking at close to a million dollars in fines, not to mention a felony conviction.
But I think that's the least of his worries. About 15 years ago, unlicensed media formats became illegal. In order to record music or video today, you must use one of the state-approved formats which incorporate DRM, and you have to digitally sign the file. Given that the encoders are patented and held by private companies, it's not surprising to learn that leasing a music encoder (just the softare!) costs about $50,000 per year. And after you are finished recording, a general distribution license costs another $50,000 per year. Writing your own encoder would land you in jail for creating a "circumvention device". Which is why anyone who owns a compiler is viewed with suspicion, even though such ownership is not strictly illegal.
Apparently, this kid had a few mp3 files (illegal format), a few mp3 encoders (illegal tools - a felony), and a plethora of original content which hadn't been registered with Copyright Central. He's probably looking at about ten to fifteen years in jail, plus some pretty hefty fines.
Re:2035: a reflection (Score:3, Informative)
Re:2035: a reflection (Score:3, Interesting)
like storm clouds gathering, and with all that technology for supressing the communication of data, it is not a question of 'if' but 'when' malevolent people will try to exert control over the population. They already are.
From the corporate point of view (Score:4, Funny)
DRM for the user (Score:4, Insightful)
DRM wouldn't have quite such a bad name if it would provide users with benefits. Intertrust technology has the ability to do this it seems but since consumers are not their clients, so easily integrated features are ignored. We designed a system with the end user in mind. From the point of view of how would we want to use the electronic media we buy.
Important user features should include:
Free trial, and fare use of content, while right management is still in effect.
Merging of artistic works into new works with automatic (pass through) licensing fees.
License to the user not to the computer so I can listen to MY music at home or office or at a friend's house.
Easy distribution from user to user with no penalty to either user in the transaction (i.e. napster 1.0 can work because each file is self managing).
User selected automatic billing from incremental use (such as paying a per hour fee to use very expensive, but rarely used software, PPV etc.) to outright purchase.
From a security point of view our philosophy was not to make an unbeatable DRM solution, but rather to make the cost of circumventing the DRM higher then the value of the content. This came about automatically when you allow people to use $30,000 software packages for $5 an hour or whatever. It just becomes too easy to work with the DRM then not. We also had the ability to pass the billing for the software use (plus any "cost plus" amount) to a user's client, so mom and pop shops had equal access to high end software that big companies had only pay for what you need.
I'd love to see the open source community pick up where we left off. Current DRM solutions need a user-focused competitor. Perhaps, I'll start a project. What do you guy think? Is it worth it?
firetellerATkoldnhostileDOTcom - If you want to talk to me about it.
Re:DRM for the user (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd like to take a look at any tech specs on the system if you have any links. The only example you gave was incorporating a managed excerpt from a book when you choose to "pay" by Fair Use. Managed - as in DRManaged.
If it really didn't impose any restrictions on Fair Use then I don't see how it expects to enforce anything in non-Fair Use cases.
your post is easily refuted by "iTunes". You may call it illegal
I never called iTunes ille
DRM = More profits for pirates (Score:4, Insightful)
Hell, if DRM stops end-users from backing up their music or whatever, surely they'll just ignore the geniune offerings andy by a pirated copy without the DRM.
I predict that the only people a universal DRM system will hurt are the law-abiding customers who should, thanks to their ethics, actually be rewarded, not penalized.
Meanwhile, those who make a living out of selling $1 per CD copies of popular music and movies will see their profits soar.
Is that *really* what the RIAA and MPAA want?
My Universal DRM Idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention... Bill Gates and Darl McBride are exempt from the above, because they are the Creators of copyrighted valuable intellectual property.
And now for a word from your customers (Score:3, Insightful)
Aside from all the (endless, redundant) DRM IS BAD commentary, I still find that these companies are fundamentally missing the point.
I would not mind (so much) them wanting to enforce their rights to sell music, to earn money from it, and to stamp out piracy. Except that each and every deployment of Rights Management/Copyright Enforcement has always put me in a position where I (ie The Customer) would be purchasing a lesser product for as much if not more money.
For Example:
So far your (ahem) "solutions" give me
dont make the MPAAs mistake (Score:3, Insightful)
assuming they want the same level of protection DVDs gave...
keep it in the hardware, make it as platform/os independant as possible. for example, as a cd drive can output directly to the sound card, let a dvd output to the framebuffer and sound to the card. in this example the driver would need little more than a transformation matrix, position in stream(s) and some settins. theoretically, it could be built so the OS doesnt even see the image.
MS and mpaa/riaa and similar organizations wouldnt like it because they would only the control what theyre supposed to and couldnt use this to create an artificial barrier of entry(2). but thats better for the hardware makers, probably sony (3), and the users. and they wouldnt be able to use thier copying excuse(4)
(1) time to market is, of course, the other, and possibly bigger factor
(2) lock out competition
(3) i suspect sony makes more money from technology than entertainment. either way would be interesting to know
(4) they could complain about it being easy to crack, but given thier past, thats a pretty pathetic. of course the legal people they complain to/buy off wouldnt know or care...
i was going to trace this to drm is not a good idea, but will have to save that for later
Mod this up! (Score:4, Insightful)
If you are a content provider and you want DRM that works, you should insist on a sealed hardware device where the manufacturer has published all the specs and enough information that a Linux driver can be written. Not because of the trivial amount of extra business by Linux, but because this is a guarantee that the DRM cannot be broken. The hardware device will have an ID in it (which is going to drive privacy advocates nuts, but what kind of horrors do you think Microsoft's DRM will have?) so that you can download content that will only play on your device.
If anybody is still too dense to get it: the API is similar to the remote control on your DVD player. Yep, you can push those buttons in any order you want, but you are not going to get it to do anything other than play that DVD on your TV.
Microsoft is going to fight this with everything they got, because they will lose the ability to lock-in media playback to their software. They will LIE about how their software will prevent cracks. Listen to your own engineers, and do not believe crap from Microsoft!
Shift Key (Score:3, Funny)
They Convinced the vendors no problem... (Score:3, Informative)
Universal DRM is a good thing (Score:3, Funny)