As Stocks (and Cryptocurrencies) Drop After Tariffs, France Considers Retaliating Against US Big Tech (politico.eu) 277
"U.S. stock market futures plunged on Sunday evening," reports Yahoo Finance, "after the new U.S. tariff policy began collecting duties over the weekend..."
The EU will vote on $28 billion in retaliatory tariffs Wednesday, Reuters reports. (And those tariffs will be approved unless "a qualified majority of 15 EU members representing 65% of the EU's population oppose it. They would enter force in two stages, a smaller part on April 15 and the rest a month later.")
But France's Economy and Finance Minister has an idea: more strictly regulating how data is used by America's Big Tech companies. Politico EU reports/A>: "We may strengthen certain administrative requirements or regulate the use of data," Lombard said in an interview with Le Journal Du Dimanche. He added that another option could be to "tax certain activities," without being more specific.
A French government spokesperson already said last week that the EU's retaliation against U.S. tariffs could include "digital services that are currently not taxed." That suggestion was fiercely rejected by Ireland, which hosts the European headquarters of several U.S. Big Tech firms...
Technology is seen as a possible area for Europe to retaliate. The European Union has a €157 billion trade surplus in goods, which means it exports more than it imports, but it runs a deficit of €109 billion in services, including digital services. Big Tech giants like Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Google and Meta dominate many parts of the market in Europe.
Amid the market turmoil, what about cryptocurrencies, often seen as a "proxy" for the level of risk felt by investors? In the 10 weeks after October 6, the price of Bitcoin skyrocketed 67% to $106,490 by December 10th. But by January 30th it had started dropping again, and now sits at $77,831 — still up 22% for the last six months, but down nearly 27% over the last 10 weeks. Yet even after all that volatility, Bitcoin suddenly fell again more than 6% on Sunday, reports Reuters, "as markets plunged amid tariff tensions. Ether, the second largest cryptocurrency, fell more than 10% on Sunday."
The EU will vote on $28 billion in retaliatory tariffs Wednesday, Reuters reports. (And those tariffs will be approved unless "a qualified majority of 15 EU members representing 65% of the EU's population oppose it. They would enter force in two stages, a smaller part on April 15 and the rest a month later.")
But France's Economy and Finance Minister has an idea: more strictly regulating how data is used by America's Big Tech companies. Politico EU reports/A>: "We may strengthen certain administrative requirements or regulate the use of data," Lombard said in an interview with Le Journal Du Dimanche. He added that another option could be to "tax certain activities," without being more specific.
A French government spokesperson already said last week that the EU's retaliation against U.S. tariffs could include "digital services that are currently not taxed." That suggestion was fiercely rejected by Ireland, which hosts the European headquarters of several U.S. Big Tech firms...
Technology is seen as a possible area for Europe to retaliate. The European Union has a €157 billion trade surplus in goods, which means it exports more than it imports, but it runs a deficit of €109 billion in services, including digital services. Big Tech giants like Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Google and Meta dominate many parts of the market in Europe.
Amid the market turmoil, what about cryptocurrencies, often seen as a "proxy" for the level of risk felt by investors? In the 10 weeks after October 6, the price of Bitcoin skyrocketed 67% to $106,490 by December 10th. But by January 30th it had started dropping again, and now sits at $77,831 — still up 22% for the last six months, but down nearly 27% over the last 10 weeks. Yet even after all that volatility, Bitcoin suddenly fell again more than 6% on Sunday, reports Reuters, "as markets plunged amid tariff tensions. Ether, the second largest cryptocurrency, fell more than 10% on Sunday."
The entire world is gearing up (Score:5, Insightful)
Is really frustrating how little people understand how the American empire functions. Simply put we leverage our national debt in order to keep the US dollar overly strong allowing us to bring in huge amounts of cheap imports worth much much much more than the interest on the debt.
That system is the only thing that's let you keep ahead of the rapacious oligarchs who have been using productivity gains in automation to devour your wages and your quality of life.
And now we've completely broken that system. The entire world is basically united against us in a pointless trade war that exists only to implement a national sales tax so that the tax burden of the richest assholes in the country can be shifted to you personally. Basically doubling what you pay in taxes every year.
It's so stupid I don't even know what to think or say anymore. It's not like the information wasn't out there. It's not like people shouldn't have known that this would be the outcome. At the very least people should have understood that a Trump presidency means higher prices for everything, especially eggs.
When I was a kid we called it the boob tube. TV that is. But even today people just do what TV tells them to do. All the while going on and on about anyone who well, does with TV says to do. And the other side controls TV so that's what we did. mix in a little voter suppression and here you go.
And thanks to that voter suppression I don't think we're going to get a chance to fix this. As it stands the United States of America is on a permanent trajectory for decline. And it's going to be so rapid that the old farts that hang around this forum aren't going to die before it hits them
Re:The entire world is gearing up (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, but Trump will exact retribution for every slight he's ever perceived. That's far more important than maintaining the nation's prosperity.
Re: The entire world is gearing up (Score:5, Insightful)
America has got to smartten up to the (Score:2, Interesting)
World! For that to make sense you need to understand a little bit about American politics. Not much just a little.
So Trump doesn't have enough votes in our lower chamber, the US House of Representatives, to cram through The 5 trillion dollars in tax cuts for billionaires he wants. There's a handful of Republican politicians that run on the deficit and they would lose their primary elections if they added 5 trillion to the national debt for anything let alone for tax cuts for billionaires.
So Trump is doing e
Re: America has got to smartten up to the (Score:5, Insightful)
Science has slowly been outlawed in America, but that is accelorating like a bobsled as witnessed by all of the research and university programs shuttered.
And while there may be a trade imbalance of goods, services balanced it out. But if America has become an enemy nation, do we need their social media pulling another Brexit or Myanmar holocaust? Not at all. Do we need to invest in their unstable economy or currency?
It's time for another lockdown before the world catches the American insecurities virus.
Re: America has got to smartten up to the (Score:4, Insightful)
For as much as conservatives and Republicans have effectively been lying to us about their principle of a hands off, light touch free world from government interference what they actually want is the opposite, a country of only themselves.
Protectionism, tariffs and draconian immigration enforcement are the most big government of big government things you can do.
Congrats Republicans on becoming the tax and spend big government party.
Re: America has got to smartten up to the (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't be ridiculous. For most of my life, at *least* since Reagan, they've been the party of borrow and spend like a drunken sailor. Then the Dems get in, raise taxes, and the GOP complains.
And this "run government like a business..." Let's see, before I retired in '19, I worked as a contractor at the NIH. I looked, so I know that I was getting paid about the same as if I were a fed. And with similar benefits.
Oh, but your (and my) tax dollars weren't just paying for me, they were paying for a fed to manage the contracts, and for my corporate manager, and *their* corporate manager... AND for my company to make a good profit.
Outsource saves money, my ass.
Re: America has got to smartten up to the (Score:4, Informative)
The Stasi (sic) weren't American
Internment camps were in the 1940's, during wartime and Trump is using the same law (Alien Enemies Act) right now to deport people during peactime.
Who was president in 2020?
I am begging you, read ANYTHING
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There is no "the church" in America, there is a myriad of them. I think it's more likely that the states will strongly start to deviate on these topics, as the federal government weakens, ending up as one of the issues paving the way for the USA to eventually fragment.
Re: The entire world is gearing up (Score:4, Insightful)
" This is happening because Trump's supporters are all mindless morons."
No, some of you are actually evil, only the rest are mindless.
Re: The entire world is gearing up (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: The entire world is gearing up (Score:5, Informative)
Lol elitist sure bro.
You're the one supporting buying your way into power. Trump and musk are the living employment of the "elite", certainly when it comes to wealth.
Re: The entire world is gearing up (Score:4, Interesting)
Lol elitist sure bro.
You're the one supporting buying your way into power. Trump and musk are the living employment of the "elite", certainly when it comes to wealth.
And that is ultimately why I think Trump is going to fail horribly. He hasn't got an SA, for those unfamiliar with history the SA, Sturmableing or Brown Shirts, were the Nazi party's storm troopers. The kind of people who beat up Jews and Bolsheviks, trashed Jewish businesses and stood over people in voting booths to "help" them vote correctly. They were well organised and effective.
As Jan 6 2021 demonstrated, all Trump has are a rabble of disorganised and ill-disciplined rednecks who couldn't even take a building when the doors were opened for them. I imagine they'd melt faster than an ice cream on mercury when facing a proper force.
As more and more people come to realise that Trump was never going to fight for them, rather he's fighting against them by trying to create a protected oligarchy, I mean even more protected than they currently are, those fighting for him are going to continue to suffer the same malaise that meant they never got anywhere in life despite living in one of the most privileged societies on the planet (yes, his supporters really do think that Trump is going to give them their dues).
Of course things are going to get worse in the US, I feel for you but... y'all got yourselves into this.
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"elitist bullshit" Elitist? Those billionaires on la Presidenta's stage during inauguration are there because they really care about the common person?
Begone, you elitist emissary of Beelzebub. Maybe if you grovel low enough you can be invited to one of la Presidenta's fake golf tournaments in Florida that he holds to suck in more Saudi money for him and his imps.
Re: The entire world is gearing up (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, yes. We're all idiots. That's what it is. What a simple position to take.
You elected the guy who bankrupt several casinos. Let that sink in for a bit.
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Ok, but Trump will exact retribution for every slight he's ever perceived. That's far more important than maintaining the nation's prosperity.
Sure. But at some point it breaks down, literally. Trump can say "I'll keep raising my tariffs to match your retaliation" but it can't really happen. At some point everyone will be assessing a hundred-trillion-percent tariff on everything, and a thousand-dollar car part will cross a border and the combined wealth of the planet will be owed.
The only way this works is if everyone caves in and just lets America - which has way, way more than its fair share of global wealth - take more of the overall pot.
Re:The entire world is gearing up (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing is... they don't need to cave. They can literally route around the U.S. economy just as they did around Russia which was about the 11th or 12th largest economy.
Just cut the U.S. economy out of the picture. Most of the desirable U.S. products are services anyway. So they do without Google, and Microsoft, and Facebook, and Deloitte (sp) ... and use alternative solutions and develop their own solutions.
And with the ICE treatment of foreign nationals, the U.S. is going to lose the Brain edge that it has had as smart people who don't want to spend 4 weeks in prison without access to a lawyer cut the chase and leave.
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The thing is... they don't need to cave.
You'll find that's not the case. I mean- not that they should cave, but we're all going down together. They cannot insulate themselves from us.
The US imports (imported?) ~600B USD a year from the EU.
That is lost revenue for the businesses there that they can't just pick up somewhere else.
Frankly, because nobody else can afford it. We're the largest consumer on the planet.
You can cut the US out of the picture, but not without crippling yourself as well, because the funnel of money was always pointing ou
Re:The entire world is gearing up (Score:5, Insightful)
Except that that's forgetting three quarters of the picture.
In 2023 the US did import just over 500B in goods from the EU, but it exported around 350B, net imports 150B.
So that's reduced your figure by a factor of over 3 in one go.
The EU imported 430B in services from the US in 2023 and exported 310B, so that was a net flow of just over 100B towards the US.
So overall, the hit to the EU of stopping all trade with the US would be 50B all else being equal.
Of course, there are exports from the US that the EU doesn't want to lose, the costs of replicating them locally would dwarf that 50B and would take years to do, but the EU is big enough to take that task on if it has to.
The EU is keen to deescalate these trade wars and so is treading quite cautiously currently. France is one of the more belligerent voices that definitely want to take aim at that services deficit (combination of taxes and restrictions on how data can be used applied to US companies has already been mooted).
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Except that that's forgetting three quarters of the picture.
No, it's not. You're trying to even out the picture.
We're discussing the impact of those who are targeted by this.
The net does not matter.
What matters is the lost revenue for the businesses on the other side.
So that's reduced your figure by a factor of over 3 in one go.
As long as you don't understand basic economics- you're correct.
The EU imported 430B in services from the US in 2023 and exported 310B, so that was a net flow of just over 100B towards the US.
You're really gonna harp this thing, as if those who lost the $600B in revenue are made whole by the fact that other people in their country bought shit from us?
The EU is keen to deescalate these trade wars and so is treading quite cautiously currently. France is one of the more belligerent voices that definitely want to take aim at that services deficit (combination of taxes and restrictions on how data can be used applied to US companies has already been mooted).
With a grip on economics as dismal as yours, I'm not sure I'd be trying t
Re:The entire world is gearing up (Score:4)
They cannot remove themselves immediately. Right now, they are only looking to kick the can down the road before they starting kicking the U.S. down the road. Time matters.
And there will be no turning back. Now the rest of the world understands just how stupid Americans really are to elect such a moron. They won't assume in the future that Americans will wise up. They will never trust the American people again not to be just as stupid for the next charlatan who comes along promoting the idea Americans are victims of the rest of the world; and that means they will never trust America again.
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Jesus, the Germans are finally properly contributing to European security and people are freaking out? Ridiculous, the people of that country don't possess any kind of inherent evil.
And of course France is cheering them on, France has always met it's 2% of GDP NATO commitment. Germany? Not so much.
Re:The entire world is gearing up (Score:5, Interesting)
The thing is... they don't need to cave. They can literally route around the U.S. economy just as they did around Russia which was about the 11th or 12th largest economy.
Pretty much this. The US is trying to wage a trade war with the entire world... so other countries, UK, EU, et al. have the entire rest of the world to trade with over the US.
So what other countries should be doing is determining the things they buy from the US, of those things what can be reliably sourced from allies or at least friendly nations and then putting tariffs on those goods and services from the US.
Blanket or revenge tariffs will just harm your own population, as we'll see in the US.
Just cut the U.S. economy out of the picture. Most of the desirable U.S. products are services anyway. So they do without Google, and Microsoft, and Facebook, and Deloitte (sp) ... and use alternative solutions and develop their own solutions.
And with the ICE treatment of foreign nationals, the U.S. is going to lose the Brain edge that it has had as smart people who don't want to spend 4 weeks in prison without access to a lawyer cut the chase and leave.
The thing is, this may end up killing some American tech powerhouses like Google as people scrabble for alternatives. It's not like Google has the commanding lead it did 10-15 years ago. Companies like Deloitte have competitors all over the world so they've never been a natural monopoly
Personally I'm going to have a renewed focus on buying locally. If the UK doesn't produce it, I'll look for things from the EU or Commonwealth.
As for the US itself. I'll be giving that a wide berth until you guys sort your shit out. Even though I'm a white, male, middle aged, native English speaker I don't want to take the chance that I'll be the one they pull up because some jumped up ICE agent it having a bad day.
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I agree with your general drift but actually often goods are the easiest to move. Most things have multiple sources, and a combination of inertia plus cost of changing supplier tends to hold things stable rather than instantly chasing the cheapest price. Over the longer term, obviously businesses do want to cut costs. The difference for US purchasers though is that Trump has imposed tariffs on everybody so prices ar
Re:The entire world is gearing up (Score:5, Informative)
In 2023, the average U.S. tariff was approximately 3.3%, while the EU's average tariff stood at about 5.0%.
Here the question you need to answer though, why should we care?
The divergence in GDP growth between the US and Europe was striking in 2023, as highlighted in Fitch Ratings’ latest ‘20/20 Vision’ chart pack. GDP growth in the US rose to 2.5% in 2023 from 1.9% in 2022 while in the eurozone it decelerated to 0.5% from 3.4% in 2022, and in the UK it slowed to 0.1% in from 4.3% in the previous year. Excluding the Covid-19 pandemic recession and recovery in 2020 and 2021, the gap between US and eurozone growth in 2023 was the widest since the eurozone sovereign debt crisis in 2013.
https://www.fitchratings.com/r... [fitchratings.com]
Tariffs are bad economics, if the EU want's to do a bad economic thing, well, why stop them. Fairness? Who cares when we are at like full employment, booming markets and rising wages 2023-2024. The problems American's have with their economic lives have very very little to do with the average tariff rate of the EU.
Make the case.
Re:The entire world is gearing up (Score:5, Informative)
It all depends on how you calculate it, in 2023, in total amount of tariffs collected, measured in dollars or euros, the US collected more tariffs on imports from the EU that the EU did on imports from the US.
From https://ec.europa.eu/commissio... [europa.eu]
"For technical reasons, there is not one “absolute” figure for the average tariffs on EU-US trade, as this calculation can be done in a variety of ways which produce quite varied results. Nevertheless, considering the actual trade in goods between the EU and US, in practice the average tariff rate on both sides is approximately 1%. In 2023, the US collected approximately €7 billion of tariffs on EU exports, and the EU collected approximately €3 billion on US exports."
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>So.. it's okay when y'all tariff us, but when the shoe is on the other foot..... What? We're a bunch of MAGA assholes?
Yes, tariffs ranging from 1 -2 % difference suddenly at 30%, across the board?
Why yes, you ARE a bunch of MAGA assholes!
Jeez that was easy.
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You could have saved everyone's time by just posting your last sentence with a period instead of a question mark.
Re:The entire world is gearing up (Score:5, Informative)
So.. it's okay when y'all tariff us, but when the shoe is on the other foot..... What? We're a bunch of MAGA assholes?
Putting up tariffs is not inherently a bad thing. Sometimes countries need to enact tariffs to protect their economies from much stronger foreign economies, or to protect vital industries necessary for their economy or defense. Considering the US economy is by far the strongest economy in the world, you would expect almost all countries to have higher tariffs on us than we have on them. That is a sign of our strength, not a sign of their unfair practices.
If the US announced that we felt our steel industry was too weak to survive, and it was vital that we could continue to build armaments during a long-term global conflict, putting up some tariffs on steel would be very reasonable. It would cause economic damage, like all tariffs do, but it would be worth it to secure our national defense. We could do it in a very gradual manner in partnership with our allies to reduce that economic damage, and the world would understand.
But these tariffs are plainly stupid. The US manufacturing industry is #2 in the world, and larger than the 3rd, 4th, and 5th largest manufacturing economies combined (Japan, Germany, South Korea). Any claim that our manufacturing industry is hurting is ridiculous. Employment in the industry has been falling for decades, just like it did in agriculture 100 years ago, but that is a healthy result of technological advance.
Former farmers 75 years ago recovered just fine because the top 1% only held 10% of the nation's wealth in the post-WW2 era, leaving enough money to build the modern middle class. With the top 1% holding over 25% of the nation's wealth today, former factory workers haven't been doing as well over the past few decades. That is the problem, not unfair trade practices.
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> Trump will exact retribution for every slight he's ever perceived
If I may, the French are, it seems to me, to be quite happy to piss people off to get what they want. If they see something as "wrong", they'll make an absolute nuisance of themselves until someone does something about it. Put that together with Trump and you end up with a lot of "retribution" going on.
I'd also go as far as to say that the French, as a group, don't really understand (or perhaps just don't care) how intertwined their econo
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For a world where America no longer leads.
america has brought some great stuff to the world but tbh in general has been more of a bully than a leader.
with that out of the way, america's decline is not very different from that of most empires: overextension, greed and self indulgence. corporations moving abroad for greater profits, forgoing quality for profits, unchecked elites steadily rising inequality, making a banal talk show of political discussion, feeding on forever wars and political and monetary manipulation and coercion ... the best way to
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Both sides are NOT the same.
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indeed, you can clearly tell them apart from their very unsame collars :-)
Re:The entire world is gearing up (Score:5, Insightful)
This has never been less true in our lifetimes than it is today in 2025, they are very different in crucial ways.
Some of us were alive in the 80's and 90's and longer. That's where this meme came from, it kinda ceased really in 2016.
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Stock prices have only given up a year of gains.
Don't expect the market to bottom anytime soon, as we get into a recession.
Re: The entire world is gearing up (Score:2)
Simply put we leverage our national debt in order to keep the US dollar overly strong allowing us to bring in huge amounts of cheap imports worth much much much more than the interest on the debt.
How was that ever going to last?
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Is really frustrating how little people understand how the American empire functions.
Very few voters want America to be an empire.
We're ok not being the leader, but we don't want them to start another world war and drag us into it.
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And the other side controls TV so that's what we did
Um ... what? You mean because there is perhaps one network that isn't 100% leftist, lol?
Re:The entire world is gearing up (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump won that election very comfortably, complaining about voter suppression just undermines anything else you have to say.
Is that like when Biden won the election comfortably and all we heard for 4 years was Trump complaining about a "rigged" election, meaning it undermines anything else he had to say?
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Every accusation is a confession (Score:2, Flamebait)
I mean for fuck sakes Missouri has 40% black population. Have you ever stopped to ask yourself how in the name of hell it can manage to be a red state? Now just take those same tactics and use them nationally thanks t
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Re:The entire world is gearing up (Score:4, Insightful)
Trump got a plurality of votes, the last time we had that instead of a majority was when Ross Perot split the vote. There was no big national third party this time though to split the vote like that.
I don't think any rational person would say he won "comfortably".
I'm reluctant to believe voter suppression because of the lack of evidence, but if such evidence was found, I'd hardly be surprised, especially given the the difference in candidates, with Trump barely campaigning and apparently mentally breaking down on stage frequently.
Re: The entire world is gearing up (Score:3)
Re:The entire world is gearing up (Score:4, Insightful)
Requiring a voter id card and then closing the voter id card office all but 4 days a year between the hours of 9am and 4pm (during working hours) and that's 40 miles away (requiring a car) is voter disenfranchisement.
Closing voter id card offices in democratic areas but leaving them open in rich white areas is also voter disenfranchisement.
Making it illegal to provide water to people waiting in line at voting precincts that have been short staffed and given insufficient machines *is* voter disenfranchisement.
Letting people in big trucks with racists flags park across the street and "observe" the election *is voter disenfranchisement* .
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Re:The entire world is gearing up (Score:4, Informative)
Lack of evidence? It's all very well known. To give just one example [tampabay.com]:
In all, more than 1.1 million Floridians are unable to vote because they have felony convictions or owe court debts, making Florida the "nation's disenfranchisement leader," the report states. About 15 percent of the state's Black voting-age population is disenfranchised because of a felony, the report estimates, compared to about 6 percent for the state's non-Black population.
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The idea that there needs to be a majority is absurd.
He won by 2.3 million votes, or ~1.5% of the turnout.
Bush and Gore were only 0.5% apart. Now that was a close one.
Also, if Gore had won, it would have been a plurality.
Whether or not the winner has a plurality or a majority is a matter of how many people voted for third parties, not how close the election was between the two people who had any chance of winning.
The best I'll grant you, is
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He keeps blaming immigrants and Democrats for everything. And a good third or so of Americans not only buy it, but they readily defend Trump's policies as necessary.
Re:ok? (Score:5, Informative)
Like, he famously didn't start any wars and he was promising to end the wars the US was in.
Except he didn't, he just signed Doha without any input from the Afghani government and made the date after the election in true kick-the-can fashion. Biden did the deed and took the hit, like a President is supposed to.
Also Trump bombed Syria, escalated the drone war and assassinated an Iranian general on another countries soil. Agree with those actions or not but "didn't start any wars" isn't making much of a case.
1.7% isn't very comfortably (Score:3, Interesting)
The only part that confuses me is that the journal is too broke all this had sat down with Kamala Harris years ago and told her this was going to happen and she just did nothing.
It speaks to a profound incompetence
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Not quite. Regardless of who wins or loses it is well known that the system is skewed heavily in favour of republicans in all legal means possible (legal being imposing arbitrary rules and limits, gerrymandering of districts, and even something as simple as the day of the week chosen for an election favours voters which historically skew in one direction.
In most of the recent narrow elections it's widely accepted (by external people with no skin in the game, no by partisan Americans) that democrats win desp
For those who are confused (Score:5, Interesting)
Trump is not that hard to understand.
There are only a few things he really cares about, but most prominent among those when he "decides" what action to take is how it will play out in the media for the next news cycle. That's the way it has been with him for over 8 years now but if you accept that you understand the mechanism by which he takes action.
Right now, he thinks slamming down tariffs left and right makes him look "strong" and "decisive." Not like those wimpy ass liberals who try to use diplomacy for things. His PR organ Fox News is crowing about all the nations obsequiously lining up to negotiate (i.e. sue for terms of surrender). The rubes are buying it so he will keep doing it. Economic expertise, much less sound policy, has nothing to do with it and never has.
Just a short while ago the Trump team was confidently forcing a plan for SSA office closures. They had a list and they published it. Guess what it did NOT play well in the media. Trump was getting trashed and he couldn't blame it all on Musk. None of them have enough education to know what the "third rail of American politics is." Then guess what. They are now pretending they never said they were going to close offices. That was just a figment of your imagination and you do not question the Ministry of Truth.
So it will be the same with the tariff project. It will play out that way. Right now they are trying to spin the chaos in the equities markets as just a necessary but temporary thing, then we will all get rich. The rubes are buying it for now, but when the news cycle sours on them and they lose control of the media narrative the tariffs will melt away like the spring snow. They will claim the outcome was always what they intended -- to show the world who is boss. They will pretend they will got what we wanted. The idiots in red hats will buy it.
It will be completely lost on them what the real consequences are. They will just blame it on Biden if they are forced to notice.
Re:For those who are confused (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, trump is very easy to understand.
He's an ignorant idiot, who has been shielded from responsibility from the wealth that his father left him.
He doesn't "decide", he grifts.
Because he's stupid, he hires made-up "experts", who are just as dumb and fake as he is, to tell him how to grift better.
"Experts" like the Ron Vara guy. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/1... [nytimes.com]
Because he is really stupid, he destroys a billion of value for every dollar that he actually gets, .
70+ million US citizens are as dumb as him and his "experts", but poorer. Since in trumpland money equals smart, these consider trump to be one of them, but only a lot smarter. So they chose him despite the overwhelming evidence from four years ago that he's a dumb grifting SOB.
Now the reality is catching up with them slowly, in the way it caught up with them a century ago. Their pockets being hit hard, they suddenly develop critical thinking skills.
The grapes of wrath vintage is in the making.
Except there's no California to run to anymore.
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The grapes of wrath vintage is in the making.
Except there's no California to run to anymore.
I thought that when nearly the entirety of Oklahoma was covered in a dust storm going from Texas to Tennessee.
"I don't think California's gonna let you guys in, this time."
The sad part is that my sisters live there, and moving west isn't exactly easy with our cost of living.
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What can I say? I'm really sorry for those who got him as president in spite of their vote.
Hope you come out of it with the least possible damage, which ain't saying much.
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Trump is not that hard to understand.
i've been reading/watching a lot of political/economic discussion lately from academics, researchers, brilliant and experienced offcials, diplomats from very different origins and extractions, from the us and abroad. a few of them have said that trump is not hard to understand at some point. all who did have had to eat their own words at some later point.
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There's a saying: The greatest swordsman in the world doesn't fear the second greatest swordsman. He fears the fool, who can't be predicted.
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>There's a saying: The greatest swordsman in the world doesn't fear the second greatest swordsman. He fears the fool, who can't be predicted.
It actually is pretty hard to fence against someone who doesn't know how to. You have to slow down soooo much and exaggerate things immensely.
The greatest swordsman in the world better fear the second greatest, lest he become the *former* greatest swordsman in the world.
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I like this Cowboy themed interpretation of this swordsman:
The Ballad of Buster Scruggs:
https://youtu.be/_2PyxzSH1HM [youtu.be]
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I'm a Green voter who happens to think getting the facts right matters. Weird, I know.
This is a highly fascinating (Score:3)
...economic experiment unfolding. Too bad I have to be part of it.
Does Proxima Centauri-b take illegal aliens?
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They'd scorch something 1 AU out just as easily.
As a non-American... (Score:5, Insightful)
As a non-American, I hope every country in the world sticks it to US companies and inflicts maximum economic pain on the United States.
For a bunch of redneck hicks in seven "battleground" states to have the power to wreck the global economy and the world order is simply insane, and the USA deserves every bit of economic pain, loss of prestige, and diplomatic shunning that is going to come its way.
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Deficit spending has nothing to do with free trade. Deficit spending happens because (1) Americans are greedy and want stuff but (2) they don't want to pay for it, so they resist taxation levels that could support the amount their government spends.
Education is shit in the US not because of free trade but because (1) there's a huge level of anti-intellectualism in the USA, (2) Americans hate paying taxes so they underfund their schools, which (3) means bright and qualified people are not attracted to tea
Good. (Score:3)
The US is reliably anti-consumer and guaranteed to remain so.
The EU are free to act and shoul seek to move data far away from US companies now the US is a de-facto enemy.
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Get ready for the new copium (Score:5, Insightful)
Conservatives who bitched non stop about Biden's economy now suddenly say it's a market correction and losing money is a good thing.
Re: Get ready for the new copium (Score:2)
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Who lost money? You'd have to be deaf blind and stupid to not know this was happening. And notice that he isn't charging the EU anywhere near the level of tariffs they ALREADY charge the US and they aren't even so much as considering applying lube instead of upgrading from eggplant to champaign bottle reaming.
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"Trump lied, and you fell for it (again). The new tariffs are massively higher than any previous EU tariffs."
False. Keep in mind non-tariff trade disparities and disadvantageous policies are [with full prior disclosure] being factored into the figures.
Re:Get ready for the new copium (Score:5, Insightful)
Why are these factory jobs "good jobs"? Do you think these industries are the same as they were in the 50-70's? (Also what were the tax rates back then?)
The majority of US debt is held by foreign governments and The Federal Reserve Banks
Did Trump cut the debt during his first term?
Re:Get ready for the new copium (Score:5, Insightful)
Factory jobs won't come back to the US. Some companies are opening factories in Vietnam and Taiwan, but they won't put them in the US. The supply chains are too far away, the costs are too high, the government is too unstable.
Re:Get ready for the new copium (Score:4, Insightful)
Why are these factory jobs "good jobs"? Do you think these industries are the same as they were in the 50-70's? (Also what were the tax rates back then?)
And there in lies the problem. People who want these jobs to come back are living in a 1960's fantasy world (complete with the racism).
Long gone are the days where you could afford a family home, car, food on the table and 2 holidays a year comfortably on a single wage, let alone a single factory workers wage... and back then factory work was relatively well paying because factory owners knew that their workers had to be able to afford what they produced. America's appetite for cheap products killed that philosophy and in turn, send factories overseas where it was cheaper and Americans didn't have to face the fact that the factory worker could no longer afford what they made.
And besides this, if the factories did come back, who'd take the jobs? Low paid, low skill jobs have existed for decades in the US... Gardener, janitor, maid, abattoir worker... erm... todos trabajos son hechos por los Mexicanos. If the rednecks who voted for Trump aren't going to get of their bums to work for slave labour wages on laborious jobs already, what makes anyone think they'll get of their arses if the factories come back? Made in the USA... by Immigrants.
Re:Get ready for the new copium (Score:5, Insightful)
The majority of US debt is held by foreign governments and The Federal Reserve Banks
Patently false.
The US public owns over twice as much as every other holder of US debt combined.
We export about $21.6 billion dollars PER MONTH to foreign countries as interest payments.
That's such a piddly amount of money, I'm not sure why it warranted caps.
The US takes in $425 billion PER MONTH in tax revenue, and spends $560 billion PER MONTH, with a deficit of 135 billion PER MONTH, and you're worried about $21 billion?
The vast majority of the "interest" (coupon is the correct term) stays right here in the US.
I only scanned your post, but you got enough flat out wrong that I'm not sure the rest of it is worth more than the calories it took you to type it.
It's a security threat (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't just tariff US tech... replace it and ban the original.
If your businesses run on Windows, you're one Trump emergency order away from having your systems compromised for industrial espionage or an economic attack. If your consumer economy is depending on Amazon delivery networks, you can have sand thrown in it at any time. If you allow Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter/X freely within your borders, you are already under American and Russian agitprop assaults.
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What matters to foreign partners when making decisions, is the perception that Trump is capable of invoking this power and using it extensively, because of: 1) an overwhelming evidence evidence he does care about keeping friendships and 2) because of the lowered guardrails in his administration. These interpretations that did not apply to previous Presidents, even though the same power was available to them.
Everyone needs to cut the US loose (Score:5, Interesting)
Honestly, you can't trust US tech. All the major tech CEOs famously met with Trump in private to discuss God's knows what.
We believe we have seen the establishment of an oligarchy that commits war-like acts against its closest allies. That means that none of your data is safe in the cloud if it lands in an American jurisdiction. Because clearly Trump can call any of these CEOs for a favor now. US tech companies can and will let government spooks into data centers and gain physical access to equipment. Or simply turn off key Internet services for countries that he wants to pressure into "negotiation".
I'll survive here in the US. But my fellow countrymen have long ways to fall before they realize what has happened. When they're ready, we'll rebuild and hopefully reconnect with the rest of the world.
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I don't really care what letter a politician has after their name. Most(all?) major industries donate to both parties. But try to focus on the immediate problem and the current party that has seized overwhelming power. Now is not the time to hash over old grievances because that won't be productive.
The working class and middle class have long suspected that the richest people are taking advantage of the rest of us. But it's one thing to say you don't trust the 1%, billionaires, and tech CEOs, and it's anoth
Here is a crazy thought... (Score:2)
Instead of retaliating against the US for retaliating against your tariffs... you could retaliate by dropping your tariffs.
Re:Here is a crazy thought... (Score:5, Informative)
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Free trade is literally a win-win scenario, everybody get's something they want, Republicans used to know this, deep down they still do.
“The best thing is for other countries to engage in is free trade, but even if they don't the most sensible, ration thing to do, all by ourselves, is to follow free trade" -Famous hippie Milton Friedman
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"Free trade is literally a win-win scenario, everybody get's something they want, Republicans used to know this, deep down they still do."
That doesn't mean Americans always break even or win on the deal. And we absolutely should.
All too often the people who get they want, are people who want to exploit child labor, a lower value for human life, or in some cases literal slavery pending genocide.
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No but they have an exploitative relationship which benefits Australia disproportionately relative to the US. We've even been funding the Australian universities and press FFS. I certainly don't blame the average bloke in Australia for that but then I've heard more than a few Australians point out that they don't blame the US for not wanting to pay so much its supposed to be a national crisis if our taxpayers stop paying for their public services.
"The moron thinks that because you buy something from someone
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Oh would you look at that! A Trump supporter who has no idea what actions Trump had actually takes, but supports them really hard anyway.
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"A Trump supporter who has no idea what actions Trump had actually takes"
I assume that made some sort of sense in your head, unfortunately no signs of sense are coming out.
Re:Here is a crazy thought... (Score:4, Informative)
Yet you are the one who appears to have absolutely no idea what you are supporting.
That's the thing about Trump supporters. You support the messiah whatever he does because he's the Messiah.
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"Yet you are the one who appears to have absolutely no idea what you are supporting.
That's the thing about Trump supporters. You support the messiah whatever he does because he's the Messiah."
Right and you are the middling IQ enlightened one who is going to come along and tell us the completely unsubstantiated truth of it all or rather you WOULD if the elders of your cult hadn't told you to shun non-believers on your daily USAID funded propaganda.
This is a fantastic, scary thriller (Score:4, Interesting)
The EU is apparently clueless (Score:2)
The EU will vote on $28 billion in retaliatory tariffs
Look, Trump is chaos incarnate. That said, it is obvious what he is after. Musk even dropped a fat, juicy hint, when he talked about free trade zones. Trump wants the EU to drop its tariffs against US products. His way of forcing this issue is by imposing his own tariffs.
Is the EU (or, in this case France) being deliberately stupid? Why?
Finally ... (Score:2)
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Re: Behold (Score:2)
And the funniest thing is that this time he's fucking that worker in precisely the same way as the last time, yet the worker persists.
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