If 23andMe Is Up for Sale, So Is All That DNA (msn.com) 56
23andMe is not doing well. Its stock is on the verge of being delisted. It shut down its in-house drug-development unit last month, only the latest in several rounds of layoffs. Last week, the entire board of directors quit, save for Anne Wojcicki, a co-founder and the company's CEO. Amid this downward spiral, Wojcicki has said she'll consider selling 23andMe -- which means the DNA of 23andMe's 15 million customers would be up for sale, too. The Atlantic: 23andMe's trove of genetic data might be its most valuable asset. For about two decades now, since human-genome analysis became quick and common, the A's, C's, G's, and T's of DNA have allowed long-lost relatives to connect, revealed family secrets, and helped police catch serial killers. Some people's genomes contain clues to what's making them sick, or even, occasionally, how their disease should be treated. For most of us, though, consumer tests don't have much to offer beyond a snapshot of our ancestors' roots and confirmation of the traits we already know about. 23andMe is floundering in part because it hasn't managed to prove the value of collecting all that sensitive, personal information. And potential buyers may have very different ideas about how to use the company's DNA data to raise the company's bottom line. This should concern anyone who has used the service.
Department of Justice (Score:5, Funny)
I hear the Department of Justice is in on the bidding. ;)
I'm so glad I never gave them anything (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm glad I was never foolish enough to give them any of my DNA.
That's not to say they don't have it, if any relatives of mine ever gave them theirs.
Re:I'm so glad I never gave them anything (Score:4, Funny)
I'm glad I was never foolish enough to give them any of my DNA.
That's not to say they don't have it, if any relatives of mine ever gave them theirs.
They absolutely could pinpoint you.
Just don't murder anyone, okay?
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Just don't murder anyone, okay?
Or say "Trump is a fink"
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Just don't murder anyone, okay?
You can murder someone. You just have to do it the right way.
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Re:I'm so glad I never gave them anything (Score:4, Informative)
As you said, the problem with DNA is that if close relatives of yours did it it won't matter, the state can still get (or at least estimate) your genetic information indirectly, and this have already happened, I recall an article here in /. where some guy was found to be a rapist based on a close relative partial match which was enough for a subpoena of his DNA.
If your parents and/or brothers or sisters did the test it is almost the same as you doing it.
Re: I'm so glad I never gave them anything (Score:1)
I presume you are talking about the golden state killer. The problem is that the DNA system itself didnâ(TM)t really point to the person, it allowed investigators to look within about 5 groups of 10,000 people, it still required tons and tons of people to cooperate, hand over their DNA including his family and then they still had to prove he was actually feasibly in the area and he then finally admitted it, which if he didnâ(TM)t, it isnâ(TM)t clear whether there was sufficient evidence that
Once again a reminder if you give your DNA out (Score:4, Insightful)
That's all well and good until you catch a murder charge because your cousin was near a crime scene and now suddenly you were spending two or $300,000 on lawyers so you don't end up in jail for 25 years to life. Hell Missouri just executed a man they knew was innocent.
If you want to know something about your genetics go see a doctor and have your DNA sequenced under proper HIPAA regulations.
Re: Once again a reminder if you give your DNA out (Score:3)
Ransomeware gangs don't worry me as much (Score:4, Interesting)
Not that it isn't a concern, but I can't skip going to a doctor just because of that.
What I can skip is pointless nonsense like 23andme.
And if I'm not in their DB then they can't pin it to me. Yes, they can subpoena doctors, but not for "all the DNA you have". They would need a more specific subpoena.
What worries me is getting caught in a dragnet, especially when I've seen John Oliver's bit on police interrogations. They could care less if you're guilty or not, all they want is the confession.
Re: Ransomeware gangs don't worry me as much (Score:2)
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The opposite happens as well. A number of rape cases were solved when a relative of the rapist was DNA tested for heritage. No criminal test necessary. You know they're most likely a cousin? Drops the suspect list to low enough to solve a lot of the time.
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because none of the evidence in a leak like that would be admissible in court.
Wrong. Absolutely wrong. The courts can admit it as long as the government didn't have any hand in stealing it and with a few other conditions.
Fourth Amendment and the Exclusionary Rule:
The Fourth Amendment protects individuals from unreasonable searches and seizures by the government. Under the exclusionary rule, evidence obtained by the government (or its agents) in violation of the Fourth Amendment is typically excluded from court to deter unlawful government actions. This rule, however, generally
Re: Ransomeware gangs don't worry me as much (Score:2)
Oh, it'd be admissible alright. As someone already noted, the exclusionary rule only applies when the government violate your rights. Keyword here is "your". If the government violates your cousins rights in obtaining evidence they can't use it against your cousin, but they can still use it against you since you had no interest in your cousin's rights.
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Unfortunately, HIPAA is primarily focused on corporate data sharing, not personal data privacy. They make it more difficult for individuals to get their own information than for corporations to get all of yours.
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The reason for the execution wasn't because they were convinced of the guilt, but because being tough on crime gets you reelected. The system is broken when the reward system is based upon locking up people rather than locking up the correct people.
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troll is trolling
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No, 23andMe does not share DNA with law enforcement unless compelled by a warrant. https://www.23andme.com/law-en... [23andme.com].
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Sure. Meanwhile they leak it directly to organized crime [slashdot.org] for free.
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Re: Once again a reminder if you give your DNA out (Score:2)
Sensationalism much? The statistical likelihood of this scenario makes it practical fiction. It is never going to happen.
I agree that the privacy threats are real, but let's try to have discussions about it without going immediately to absurd clickbait extremes.
And it's gonna sell for pennies. (Score:5, Interesting)
Your DNA isn't that valuable.
--BUT BUT!!! HEALTHCARE INSURANCE COMPANIES!!!
That's illegal. They can't do what you are thinking.
--BUT BUT!!! THEY CAN LOBBY TO CHANGE THE LAW!!!
Even if they did that successfully, your DNA isn't that valuable. This is literally the lesson 23&Me learned and why they are bankrupt.
Re: And it's gonna sell for pennies. (Score:2)
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23&Me didn't. That's what got them in hot water!
Re: And it's gonna sell for pennies. (Score:2)
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Genealogy based security questions are still used all the time at major banks.
But in that case it's not necessary to give banks the real names of your relatives.
I have never used the actual names of my parents, grandparents, siblings, friends, teachers, or even pets. I make shit up, and then put it into an encrypted password manager.
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I bet 99% of people answer the question with their real mother's maiden name.
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What? They're still in use in many places. I bump into them all the time.
For myself, I sometimes make up fake answers, which means I need to look up the answers on occasion (my first pet's name is apparently Bilbo Baggins, and my first automobile was a donkey, etc.).
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HA! That is probably correct!
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That's illegal. They can't do what you are thinking.
Since when has that stopped corporate America. I believe you meant to say:
That's illegal. They can't admit to doing what you are thinking.
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That's illegal. They can't do what you are thinking.
Since when has that stopped corporate America. I believe you meant to say:
That's illegal. They can't admit to doing what you are thinking.
Sure they can. Watch them. Not like you or anyone else is gonna do anything about it. That IS the problem with corporate “America”.
Re: And it's gonna sell for pennies. (Score:1)
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You really can't read, can you.
Re: And it's gonna sell for pennies. (Score:1)
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DNA as a whole, without identifying factors, is slightly interesting, but you don't need mass amounts of DNA for this, a sampling is quite adequate for scientific purposes.
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Submit PII request (Score:2)
I will scrape my data soon (Score:2)
All the messages and responses I have sent to people... Lots of good info I didn't copy down yet.
Download a fresh copy of my DNA data.
I'm wondering if I should go to FamilyTree or Ancestry.
Whatever (Score:2)
If you think you’re own personal DNA is the special key to world domination, I’m so sorry, but it’s not.
There are already large databases of DNA. Any company that wants that sort of data could walk down the street and offer 5 bucks for a DNA sample, and a huge chunk of people would take the offer. I’m
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This.
I've been tested by 23andMe, and Ancestry DNA, and Family Tree DNA. The education has been fascinating, and I've made contact with relatives as a result. I don't regret being tested by these sites.
In fact, I've uploaded to GedMatch as well, and explicitly checked the box authorizing sharing with law enforcement. Weird, right?
No, I'm just not paranoid.
Sell it to China (Score:2)
Nope, it's not (Score:2)
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If the company that buys it doesn't have some sort of retail footprint in the EU then you'll find it won't be protected at all.
Sanity check (Score:4, Informative)
1. Many people have had their DNA tested by companies with no privacy protections, and/or who operated with fraudulent intent.
In consequence, 23&Me will have no meaningful impact on the DNA information out there.
2. 23&Me checks far too few markers, tested with too low an accuracy, and it uses genotyping not sequencing.
So it doesn't really have your DNA at all, and what it does have has too low a confidence level to ever stand up in court or be used directly by any medical company. It would be a very high-risk manoever to abuse that data.
23&Me relies heavily on recurring patterns in very large numbers of people, using high frequency to overcome low quality. But the false positive count will be significant.
3. The police have access to far far larger databases of DNA, 23&Me just isn't significant enough, and their DNA labs are reportedly gathering maybe only a dozen markers or so.
A dozen markers is far too poor a quality to be useful, which is why police rarely allow third parties to DNA test evidence - - their hypothesis is too fragile. But, because of this, their computers aren't going to be equipt to handle data sets containing 20,000 markers. They'd have to dump most of the data, and they'd end up with masses of duplicate records.
4. DNA alone can't be used to diagnose
Insurance companies can calculate risks, sure, but because most people with diagnosable markers will never develop the condition, people will simply cut back on what insurance they get. As cost of living goes up, worries about distant future possibilities get sidelined. Insurance is the least useful commodity, so will get dumped if it overinflates.
5. Whole Genome Sequencing is getting cheaper
WGS is now easily affordable by most in the middle class, and it yields vastly more data, at medical standards of quality control, and it's actually sequenced not typed.
This is the data the pharmaceutical companies want, your 23&Me data was mined out years ago. That was all low-hanging fruit.
National Security Risk (Score:1)
no (Score:2)
" the DNA of 23andMe's 15 million customers would be up for sale, too." Does it come in vials or cans?
My lizard is 52% Ashkenazi Jew (Score:1)
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The Ashkenazi Jew was a breach of 23&Me, but the sect followed Ashkenaz, a descendant of Noah, nothing to do with Nazi, which came from National Socialism. Still, A+ for knowing your history, clever joke. I'd heard of this sect and their persecution when I studied WW2 history in college (for a short time while changing majors), thought Ashkenazim was a weirdly bad coincidence.