OpenAI Pitched White House On Unprecedented Data Center Buildout (yahoo.com) 38
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: OpenAI has pitched the Biden administration on the need for massive data centers that could each use as much power as entire cities, framing the unprecedented expansion as necessary to develop more advanced artificial intelligence models and compete with China. Following a recent meeting at the White House, which was attended by OpenAI Chief Executive Officer Sam Altman and other tech leaders, the startup shared a document with government officials outlining the economic and national security benefits of building 5-gigawatt data centers in various US states, based on an analysis the company engaged with outside experts on. To put that in context, 5 gigawatts is roughly the equivalent of five nuclear reactors, or enough to power almost 3 million homes. OpenAI said investing in these facilities would result in tens of thousands of new jobs, boost the gross domestic product and ensure the US can maintain its lead in AI development, according to the document, which was viewed by Bloomberg News. To achieve that, however, the US needs policies that support greater data center capacity, the document said. "Whatever we're talking about is not only something that's never been done, but I don't believe it's feasible as an engineer, as somebody who grew up in this," said Joe Dominguez, CEO of Constellation Energy Corp. "It's certainly not possible under a timeframe that's going to address national security and timing."
hallucinations (Score:4, Funny)
Because hallucinations do not scale.
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Mod parent Funny but today I already repeated the joke about the 35W PoC, so I'm not going to write it again here.
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I think they may need to pick one.....
Or, can someone tell me what part(s) of the country are set up to support both?
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You first.
Mind Boggling (Score:2)
It is mind boggling how these people can just throw such numbers around. Even if each server pulled 1kw, 5GW is 5,000,000 servers. Really? I hope someone explains that to the Biden administration before they say "Yay! More jobs!"
Diminishing returns (Score:2)
Dumping compute on hallucinations isn't going to be very helpful. Focus more on data labelling, templates, things like that.
We need an AI moonshot! (Score:2)
Absolute farking insanity (Score:2)
For perspective... (Score:3)
Of course, that's first of a kind rollout. So let's say you could reduce those costs by 50%. You're still looking at an installation cost of $7.6M per megawatt of electricity.
The site permit was first applied for in 2006, and Unit 3 was connected to the grid on April 1, 2023 - seventeen years from permit application to juice-on-the-grid. Even if you reduce THAT by 2/3 (which is laughably optimistic), you're still looking at 6 years out. I think that's way beyond the time horizon that OpenAI can even think about - for 1 GW of electricity, let alone 5.
Re:For perspective... (Score:4)
Your high level analysis of the Vogtle debacle is approximately correct. However, I do not think that is what the data center industry is talking about when they reference nuclear power.
SMR [iaea.org] aka Small Modular Reactors are the talk of the town in data center circles today. An example would be the new units from NuScale Power. [nuscalepower.com] Theoretically these can be placed in a 3-5 year timeline, maybe faster if production was ramped up.
The general idea is to have a number of 50-300MW reactors on-site. There's big wins on the data center side. Costly and often held up by NIMBYs high tension lines over long distances are no longer required. Most of the battery and generator backup systems are no longer needed, simply run N+2 or N+3 SMRs. There are other designs, including a lot of buzz around Molten Salt Reactors, hybrid plants with batteries and solar, and then more far out ideas. Some are really close to commercial ready, while some are quite far away.
I have very mixed feelings on this concept. While I understand the engineering enough that I know it's not another 3 mile island or Chernobyl, it still means creating, transporting, and disposing of nuclear fuel. I do like the idea of some mega-data center sites further away from population centers. If these massive grey boxes are going to be built with on-site power, put them away from people. Further, they could be sited to take advantage of existing infrastructure. There are plant sites, like old aluminum factories, that consumed gigawatts of power. The transmission lines already go to them. There are existing power plants all over that could be upgraded and modernized to power a nearby data center campus.
What I do know is a lot of people are throwing a lot of money at AI right now. While I'm not sure it's a good investment, give a company enough billions and a lot of things that people would never guess could happen, happen. Are the goals ambitious? Absolutely. Are they impossible? I'm not so sure.
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The problem with the (current) SMRs is the efficiency is lower and you get more waste. The total systems cost is expected to be on-par though, just the complicated and high-margin work can be done primarily in a factory. Per GW, you are looking at similar area, and similar total project delivery time, even if the reactor itself can start work later in the process.
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I think the major difference is long distance lines. Today someone building a data center might need to fund a mile or two of high voltage distribution to the nearest trunk line or substation. I'm told this costs between $3-$8M/mile. When building a mega-data center an extra $10M to get power there is a rounding error. It's also important to note that 12-15% of the power is lost over long distances. When moving 2GW
that's 240MW of lost power! Someone has to pay for that as well.
What's happening though
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The SMR companies claim they would work in isolation, but that is relative to trucking in diesel. You still have a critical mass of ~2GW to cover the overhead and support systems necessary for competitive operation.
10% transmission loss would be for hundreds of miles during periods of full load.
found you 1.2 Gw and later more (Score:2)
5-gigawatt data centers (Score:2)
in my day, 1.21 gw used to be enough for hallucinations
Just build cities... (Score:2)
How many jobs would be created by building a city with 3 million homes?
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just build homes, they are in short supply so win win
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A) Where would you like these homes to miraculously sprout from? Land is getting scarce. Even less so for 3 million homes. And no, we do not have lots of land to build on unless you're talking about farm land. The East Coast and inland is quickly running out of land to build on without sacrificing farm land (and orchards). Also, every time you cut down trees to make room for a home you are helping to increase the atmospheric temperature through heat coming off roofs, driveways, and roads plus the lack of
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Dude there's plenty of land at the peripheries of most cities. You're making up stuff. Why can't they clear land and build ultra low cost housing cabins with solar heating? Spend about $2K per. Provide free wifi (so people have access to upgrade their skills) and basic meals (beans, rice, and water) .. make it free to use for anyone. Any criminal activity results in jail or mental institute. I don't see this having an annual operating cost of more than $5k per cabin and a one-time capital cost of $10k (this
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*2K per solar heater
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Gotta love how many times you use the word free. As if nothing you described costs money to create, use, or operate. It's all free. No cost to anyone.
It was bad enough you said there's lots of land at the periphery of cities, but when you started spouting off how everything should be free I knew you have no idea what you're talking about.
For the record, I agree with the OP. I live just outside a city and land is scarce to come by unless you want to live on the side of a mountain. There is no more flat la
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I said free for anyone to use. The person receiving it doesn't have to pay. That's what free means, no need to be pedantic. Of course it costs someone else something (taxpayer) .. I literally made that clear in the next few sentences!! Try to use all the information provided in a paragraph.
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Eh... the Chinese have tried this at least once. It failed. You just end up with an empty city , because nobody has any *personal* reason to want to live there. No friends, no family, no exciting night life. Cities grow organically,
The real answer is to invest big in building in *existing* cities. Make the homes where people want to actually live.
Meth Star (Score:2)
Since throwing away 3GDPs for no conceivable benefit is on the table, I say we seize this opportunity to build out the 10TW or whatever of electrical capacity that he's requesting... and then just give people free electricity. Too cheap to meter! A chicken in every pot! Forty acres, etc.
Economically unsound? You betcha! We'd all still be better off, though.
How about "no" (Score:4, Insightful)
How about we tell Sam "no", that's not in the federal government's mandate. If he as the CEO of a private company wants to waste his own money, then go for it ... with electricity at full rates (no discounts). We don't need AI that badly and it's not going to create thousands of jobs (that's a ploy, or maybe scam is the better word).
5GW OMGWTFBBQ!!1 (Score:3)
Strange that massive expansions of power generation are somehow less newsworthy when people talk about EVs. Tesla has designed V4 Supercharger stations for 600KW peak output. At that power level only about 1600 simultaneous vehicles will consume the entire power output of a 1GW (electric) reactor. Real world power consumption is typically "only" around 250KW continuous (at least until there fleets of electric semi's charging...,) but it's the same order of magnitude, meaning we're going to need a whole bunch of reactors to fulfill ICE-haters dreams.
Go ahead. Mod me into the dirt. How dare I go doing math and stuff.
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You think that's bad, the biggest highway vehicle gas pumps are designed to pump about 150 L of diesel / minute. A 150 L barrel of oil produces about 1/4 * 150 L of diesel, so those things are effectively pumping 4 barrels per minute. That's a supertanker per day just for 140 pumps! A thousand of those pumps will drain all the remaining oil reserves in Saudi Arabia in 7 years!
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Maybe because electric vehicles reduce power consumption, and promise shorter lines at the gas station? Feel free to math out how many Joules per mile a gas vs EV use. Meanwhile, datacenters consume power, and the AI ones promise (to investors) to also steal your job.
seems dumb (Score:1)
I would have thought USA has much more pressing issues to put money into rather than "magical AI solves all" money dumps.
Like building more nuclear power, building more manufacturing inhouse rather than in China etc.
New houses (Score:2)
A million new houses would create those jobs too, would happen faster, would have a measure impact on the entire country, and would benefit more than snake-oil corporations and military departments.
This is a demand for special treatment for rich people's latest piece toy and merchandise, guessing machines: Something that does not make the lives of people better, 99% of the time.