US Government Asks 3D Printing Industry to Help Stop the Printing of Machine Gun Conversion Devices (apnews.com) 348
U.S. Justice Department officials "are turning to the 3D-printing industry to help stop the proliferation of tiny pieces of plastic transforming weapons into illegal homemade machine guns," reports the Associated Press:
"Law enforcement cannot do this alone," [U.S. Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco said Friday] during a gathering in Washington of federal law enforcement officials, members of the 3D-printing industry and academia. "We need to engage software developers, technology experts and leaders in the 3-D-printing industry to identify solutions in this fight...."
Guns with conversion devices have been used in several mass shootings, including one that left four dead at a sweet sixteen party in Alabama last year... Monaco on Friday also announced several other efforts designed to crack down on the devices, including a national training initiative for law enforcement and prosecutors.
The deputy attorney general is also launching a committee designed to help spot trends and gather intelligence.
Guns with conversion devices have been used in several mass shootings, including one that left four dead at a sweet sixteen party in Alabama last year... Monaco on Friday also announced several other efforts designed to crack down on the devices, including a national training initiative for law enforcement and prosecutors.
The deputy attorney general is also launching a committee designed to help spot trends and gather intelligence.
King Canute telling the tide to stop coming in? (Score:3)
One can try...
3D printer? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is a 3D printer needed for this? Why not a Dremel and chunk of plastic?
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Shhhh, we're chasing boogeymen rather than dealing with the underlying issue. Let's throw the 3D printers under the bus before the gubbmints comes for our amendments!
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Machine-gunning down children at a sweet sixteen party. Now that sounds like FREEDOM!
Re:3D printer? (Score:5, Insightful)
Err..it's already illegal...
Full auto conversion of Glock pistols - Illegal.
Using these (or any weapon to kill people) - Illegal....
So...what else are you wanting....after this, it's a people problem...idiots raised today with no sense of value for human life.
We've had guns in the US for a LONG time...this "mass shooting" problem is relatively new....What's changed? The people.
Guns are largely the same since the 60's or before....
Re:3D printer? (Score:5, Interesting)
Kids aren't supposed to have everything figured out already, including emotional regulation. If the aggression could be handled properly and not with a heavy hand, then I believe it would be less likely that the first means of recourse is pew pew.
Secondly, I think the number of people who own mass casualty weapons has gone up. The right wing has made it your American duty to own the libs by buying an AR-15 style rifle. Gun ownership percentages may have remained the same. Gun types have changed. In the 50-60's the most popular rifles were .22 LR bolt action or lever rifles. Today tactical rifles and shotguns take the top tier. Just like it would be hard to have a mass shooting with a musket, it also isn't exactly easy to do it with a 6 shooter and bolt action rifle, or double barrel shotgun.
Re:3D printer? (Score:5, Insightful)
The AR platform rifle...originally from the Armalite company [wikipedia.org]...has been around since they sold the design to Colt in 1959.....
And the concept of semi-automatic rifles and pistols have been around long before that....so, the weapons and access to them have been around a LONG time.
Hell, prior to 1986 with laws then for background checks, you didn't have to have a NICS check....I remember rifles being sold at hardware or automotive stores. You could mail order them from Sears.
The thing that has changed, is that somehow we've raised a couple of generations of people raised without valuing human life.
It's a people problem.
Re:3D printer? (Score:5, Insightful)
Typical Government response. Make it look like they're doing something to combat the problem while ignoring the root cause of it.
Banning the 3D printing of a " thing " will do absolutely zero to deal with the issue.
I have a friend of mine who runs his own CnC machine. Were I to request it, I could literally have any part(s) I could ever want made
out of any metal known to mankind. Given a blueprint, anyone with a dremel or even a damn hand file can create the parts needed
to make a full-auto switch or trigger group. I made my own lockpicks this way with a file and hacksaw blades many, many years ago.
Were I motivated enough to learn it, I can purchase my own desktop CnC machine and do it myself. I already have the CAD / CAM
knowledge to create the files. I just need the machine to create the final product.
Cayenne8 is dead on here and is a perspective only those who grew up before mass-shootings were the norm can explain.
The guns have been around in all their current forms ( rifles, pistols, revolver, semi-auto, shotguns, etc ) since the '60s.
We didn't have child-locks.
We didn't keep them in a safe.
Kids took hunting rifles to school ( either in a gun rack or in the trunk ) to go hunting with after school was out for the day.
The guns themselves were typically kept in a gun cabinet in the living room. Made of some nice / exotic wood with a glass front and
an interior light to show them off to anyone who happened to come over. No one even bothered to lock it because the door was made
of GLASS. We were taught what they were, how to use them and, above all else, to respect them.
Prior to 1999, mass-shootings were practically non-existent if we're comparing the numbers to what we see today.
It just didn't happen.
So, if the types and access to firearms in general are a common denominator going back at least sixty years, and mass-shootings didn't
become the National Pastime until 1999, I am genuinely curious how folks come to the conclusion that firearms are the root cause of the problem
while completely ignoring the near complete lack of mass-shootings during the period of time where the very same types of guns are available
to the general public.
The problem is, and always will be, the people wielding the weapon. People just don't want to admit it.
You can literally place a loaded firearm on a table in a school and put a cardboard box over it to occlude it from sight.
As long as a human being doesn't find it, that gun will sit there and do absolutely zero until it is nothing more than a pile of rust.
In every single case of mass-murder across this entire planet to date, a human being had to get involved and make the conscious decision
to commit mass-murder, irregardless of which tools they elected to employ to do so.
To me, it feels like today's generations are quick to jump straight to deadly violence vs the generations that preceeded them.
I can't tell you why. ( If I could, I would probably win the Nobel Prize for psychology )
I can only tell you from the perspective of someone who grew up in the '70s - '80s, that this behavior is a relatively new phenomenon. ( ~> 1999 )
For those who claim other countries have successfully banned their firearms and now live in a Utopia, I will tell you that approach simply
won't work here in the States where firearm ownership is literally protected by the Constitution this Country was founded on. Making changes
to the Constitution is, by design, very difficult to do and cannot be done by Executive Branch fiat regardless of what they want you to believe.
The only thing I can postulate is the possibility your populations ( overall ) are much happier than those who reside within the US. Perhaps your
society still raises their kids to respect human life and be decent human beings whereas we simply shove some digital internet connected device
into their hands in the guise of a digital baby-sitter as soon as they're old enough to hold one.
Re:3D printer? (Score:4, Informative)
I'd say it's a medicine problem; specifically that we're prescribing some powerful drugs to children with little regard for how they are impacting their brains or their development.
That's not the whole of the issue, of course, but it's a large chunk of it. Good luck addressing it, however, as there's a lot of money to be made pushing these drugs.
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Actually...full auto (select fire) weapons ARE perfectly legal in the US.
You have to go fill out the forms, submit fingerprints, $200 tax stamp and wait on the ATF to approve your application (much the same way you buy a suppressor/silencer)....
Now, the thing is, for regular civilians, thanks to the Hughes amendment in 1986....you cannot own full auto weapons created after 1986...only older.
There was a recent case, I think i
Re:3D printer? (Score:5, Interesting)
You probably should educate yourself on the mechanics involved before saying something this dumb. China is importing hundreds of thousands of METAL glock switches masquerading as keychains and other items. Plastic 3d printed parts do not stand up to heat and forces within the fire control group. But the media is doing what the media does best. Tell you 2 unrelated facts and expect you to assume they are related. 1) you can 3d print a facsimile of this item out of plastic. 2) a glock switch was used in a drug-related gang hit, at a sweet sixteen party in Alabama. It wasnt a 3d printed glock switch used in that gang hit. Thats a red herring because heavens forbid we go to war with china for the mass import of glock switches and fentanyl.
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That's a red herring ...
No, they're using the War on Drugs and anti-welfare defense: If everybody has one, we'll be too stoned/lazy, or in this case, dead, to serve the wealthy, go to war, go to work, etc.
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You probably should educate yourself on the mechanics involved before saying something this dumb.
Nothing you said counters what I said. In fact it reinforces it that this is a distracting boogeyman and not the main issue. Consider reading and understanding someone's post before calling it dumb only to ... agree with it.
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Only in part. The entity throwing the 3d printers under the bus isnt the citizenry. Its the government itself trying to scapegoat sorta lke they did trying to scapegoat that jewish filmmaker for Benghazi when there was intel showing an anniversary date attack was imminent. So they scapegoated some dude to cover up some mishandling of intel. In this case the huge elephant in the room is china importing these devices. And FWIW, I am pretty pro responsible gun ownership. But turning a 16oz .40S&W with a 4.
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When you say underlying problem, you seem to be thinking of something entirely differently than I.
For a moment there I was wondering what amendments regulates the overall shittiness of how US people act towards one another.
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You pose this as though banning guns is somehow impossible, yet it’s successful in every other developed nation. We’ve all got much stricter rules on the distribution of guns, we’ve all got far fewer guns in circulation, and we all have much lower levels of gun death. Whether it’s the UK, Germany, Canada or any other developed nation, we’ve all been able to do it.
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You can't ban them, but you can sure as hell regulate them.
Cars are regulated. You need to have a driving license, which requires you to pass tests, written and physical. You have to have liability insurance. You have yearly safety inspections. etc., etc.
You get a DUI? You get caught speeding? Expect your insurance premium to go up.
Why can't the same be done for guns?
Also: Tax the fuck out of ammo unless it's purchased/used at an authorized firing range.
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Re:3D printer? (Score:5, Informative)
There are a couple of countries with wider gun ownership than the US, and they both have fewer gun murders per capita than we do. (No country has more guns, but lots of US gun owners have a truly silly number of guns.) The problem isn't just that we have guns. There is something deeper and more insidious at work. We are a nation that celebrates and even worships violence.
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Yes, yes, Switzerland. I agree that a sane path forward is more feasible by heading towards a Swiss model than a British model. But whatevs. It's the fucking guns and the mad culture of the US. But the mad culture would be unable to be so harmful if it weren't for the guns.
Re:3D printer? (Score:4, Insightful)
Notably though, in the UK, they then had to go after knives because knife violence and death went up. Now, you can potentially get in trouble for carrying a personal knife set home from work.
Really, we need to address the root of the problem. When I was in school, we didn't have a school shooting problem. That in spite of some of the students in high school having hunting rifles in their trunk parked at school. The schools had no metal detectors.
As for the small devices that convert a handgun to automatic fire, those seem more for show than practicality. Pull the trigger and the magazine empties in 10 seconds or so, now you're unarmed. Spray and pray on that level is about idiots that think a highly impractical automatic weapon makes them some kind of big man.
Limit the 3D printers (good luck with that) and next you'll have to ban the cutting boards that might be made in to a dozen or so conversion kits. Next up, people whittling them from some random bit of wood.
Howsabout we address the root causes? That one might actually work.
Re: 3D printer? (Score:3, Informative)
With all the clear evidence from every other developed nation on Earth present, the Ãrony of that last sentence is incredibly tragic.
Re: 3D printer? (Score:2, Informative)
Criminals with guns is such a big problem in the UK that all the police have to carry guns too. Oh wait, thatâ(TM)s not true.
Guns arenâ(TM)t the biggest of concerns in the UK, especially since post-Dunblane restrictions and since Americans stopped supplying them in large numbers to terrorists. While youâ(TM)re right that people do get their hands on guns in the UK, the numbers are low and the country is a good example of restrictions being highly effective.
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If you were even vaguely correct, then we would see a *higher* rate of gun violence in the UK (defenceless citizens!) than the US. Except ... the UK had 28 gun homicides in the entire year for its population of 70 million... and the US had 14,700 for its population of 330 million. In case that maths is a bit tricky for you, the UK rate was 111 times lower than the US rate. Yet it should have been lower, according to you, because UK criminals still had access to guns but UK citizens had been cruelly robbed o
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source
https://www.nationmaster.com/c... [nationmaster.com]
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How's your little knife problem?
Largely speaking, little. Still 10 times as likely to die in a car crash as be stabbed, and we have some of the safest roads in the world. But for some reason knives get 1000x the media coverage. You are 100 times as likely to die from pollution related causes, and yet people fight (with the media uncritically repeating right wing talking points) tooth and nail to keep polluting.
Statistically knife crime isn't that much of a problem.
And it should be INCARCERATE INCARCERATE IN
Re:3D printer? (Score:4, Insightful)
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there are already procedures in place for that, try going to the print shop to print currency or drivers licenses. Besides, setting up a local 3d printer that works properly, getting the correct cad files, printing and verifying your work is magnitudes more complicated than using the dremel to grind a piece of plastic.
Re:3D printer? (Score:5, Insightful)
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3D printers that the average Joe can afford are still shit and require lots of babying just to get a basic print that's acceptable. You seem to be thinking of professional/business tier printers that "just work" and still come with the multi-thousand dollar price tags.
I'm not sure how anyone could think that it's easier, or even remotely cheaper, to buy a 3D printer and run off a few gun parts versus buying the real deals from your local gun nut shop, eBay, Craigslist or Ali.
A1 mini is $199 and is in the "it just works" tier.
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Because the dremmel and the block of plastic requires skill and patience vs just downloading a cad drawing ( or whatever input a 3D printer needs )and paying the nearest 3D print shop to print it. I ofc presume that the file they receive is not named something obvious like "untraceable gun part" or some such. see the difference?
So according to you, there is no effort in acquiring a 3D printer, setting it up, getting the file, and printing the part? I know more people who would be able to work the plastic to create the part than be able to setup a 3d printer.
Re: 3D printer? (Score:4, Funny)
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It's easy to pretend you have a solution to a problem when you fail to actually admit you have a problem. This seems to be the goto solution to today's problems, propose a solution that puts blame on the symptom and avoid the elephant in the room. So you honestly believe that the printers are the problem?
Re: 3D printer? (Score:2)
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Full auto for the most part is just a way to blast through a lot of dollars worth of ammo, very quickly. The amount of effort being thrown at this makes me wonder, whether it's something whose intent is to maintain the value of registered machine guns, or more nefarious to try to regulate and control more broadly, people's ability to make stuff.
I say this in the context of communication apps, where all the regulations around the world regarding moderation and monitoring, because oh why don't you think of th
We's just gots to think of the children! (Score:3)
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It's probably just politicians who learned everything they know about firearms from Hollywood. Pretty much also the same thing that causes people to mistake popping balloons for gunshots. [wesh.com]
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The three guys I know that have NFA goodies would all welcome a massive drop in value in exchange for being able to get stuff made/created in the last 38 years....
The ONLY reason they are so expensive is because of the Hughes amendment and the limited number available.
(and FWIW the NFA transfer process is MUCH faster now, one of my friends did his paperwork for a new-to-him micro Uzi and had approval within 5 days, including a weekend)
Re:3D printer? (Score:4, Insightful)
Full auto for the most part is just a way to blast through a lot of dollars worth of ammo, very quickly.
Full auto has two purposes. One, suppressing fire. Two, killing lots of people in a crowd.
Which of those do you think we're worried about?
Re:3D printer? (Score:4, Funny)
Full auto has two purposes.
It has three purposes. The third, and most important, is it makes your willy longer.
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Is semi-auto much worse at killing crowds? Really?
If it wasn't, nobody would make fully-automatic sub-machine guns. Nobody who needs a SMG for weight/size reasons is packing enough ammo for suppressive fire.
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Because it requires skill and machining experience, and thus, not everyone can do it.
Re: 3D printer? (Score:4, Interesting)
If the rifle has a reciprocating bolt, you can turn it into a machine gune with a bit of shoelace and a keyring. If a standard AR platform you can do so with a file and a piece of hangar wire.
Re: 3D printer? (Score:4, Insightful)
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The lower receiver of an AR-15 pattern rifle can be 3D printed. It doesn't undergo a significant amount of stress. One can also buy 80% finished receivers, which only need a limited amount of machining to complete. All perfectly legal, no serial numbers involved.
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The lower receiver of an AR-15 can be carved out of a block of wood. It can be made out of duct tape and epoxy resin.
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Lot easier to drill a 1/8" hole in the correct location and just drop in the real deal M16 trigger group
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Its not supposed to be plastic. That will only provide a very short use. Theyre talking about a Glock Switch, to interrupt the disconnector. The blowback from the slide would cause an issue fast. China is making hundreds of thousands of these made out of metal and selling them as ‘keychains’ on the darkweb.
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Can't be too diffucult (Score:3, Interesting)
They did it with conventional paper printers - printing almost invisible patterns of yellow dots to identify the printer, and refusing to copy or print banknotes.
Re:Can't be too diffucult (Score:5, Insightful)
It's quite a bit different technically to print something invisible when your printer can precisely place dots measured around 10micrometers rather than one about that places dots 400micrometers and has flow issues during start and stop.
It's also pretty easy to black list a completely standardised 2D image compared to a nonstandard custom 3D object.
Bonus points for many 3D printers used by hobbyists being run with open source software. (Remember when the government tried to regulate encryption, this will work the same way, there's no company to strongarm here).
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May 3D printer slicer software solutions are open source. Good luck with that.
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It's easier with 2D images that are controlled by the government though. They can easily embed features that make detection easy to do on low end printer/copier hardware.
For 3D parts that are modelled by random people on the internet, it's going to be more difficult to determine when one is designed to be part of a gun.
Watermarking prints could work.
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malum in se (Score:2)
malum prohibitum, not malum in se
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It's not even that.
This "request" is illegal on its face, in stark violation of the Second Amendment to the US Constitution.
"Throw the bums out" stands at 97% as of yesterday so the beta males may take off for Canada soon and then they won't be burdened with the responsibility of self-defense.
I doubt there is any way to prevent this (Score:2)
Government could certainly make it a crime for 3D print services to knowingly print parts, or supply machinery for others to print parts for guns. But I don't see how they can stop individuals doing it.
That said, a lot of the people doing this shit aren't smart, and probably belong to groups and communities where they exchange print models, sell parts etc. and leave a digital footprint. Infiltrate the groups and start arresting them.
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Even in the case of a 3D print service, a small metal part without context is not a "gun part" in any recognizable form. The pieces of a firing mechanism are just metal pieces that perform functions used in lots of mechanical devices. Because people use 3D print services for prototyping and design work, some of which is secret just because they are R&D and the developers don't want their IP to be leaked I don't think it would be practical to attempt to make customers provide documentation of intended
Of course as we all know (Score:5, Insightful)
the solution to the gun problem in the US is asking 3D printer manufacturers to prevent printing gun parts.
Because that's what Charlton Heston would've wanted.
Do Americans stop and think for a minute about the fact that no other country in the world needs to hamstring 3D printer to curb gun violence?
Re:Of course as we all know (Score:4, Interesting)
Aside from Russia or China, (maybe Brazil?) very few other countries have the "huge geographic area" problem the US does, along with the "Huge swaths of rural areas without effective police or animal control presence."
Our 2nd Amendment makes it even more dicey.
I am already rather unpopular here for my "Too conservative for the guncontrol hyperfetish left" and "too liberal for the ultra-rightwing super MAGA right" opinions on gun control.
I might as well double or triple down on the hateboners this post will cause to pop:
Most of these issues with "Oh NOEZ! We gotta... [checks notes for things that havent been tried yet] ... FORCE 3D PRINTER MAKERS TO INVENT DIGITAL CLAIRVOYANCE so that they can JUST KNOW when a rather rectangularish bit of plastic gets extruded! (regardless of the fact that it could be ANYWHERE on the bed, or ABOVE the bed, could have millions of possible parameters on infill type, pattern, or strategy-- and require a fucking powerful AI to even laughably half-assed approach the notion with any real seriousness-- NOPE, we are ignorant idiots that GOTTA DO SOMETHING!!, and that SEEMS REASONABLE TO US, so ITS GOTTA HAPPEN!!) come from people that adhere to the notion that "SOMETHING MUST BE DONE RIGHT NOAW!!! OH MY GAWWWWD!!", and refuse to engage their fucking brains for anything aside from maybe inventing new and inventive ways to have sex or something.
The idea "DOING SOMETHING, ANYTHING!!", as opposed to "Doing Nothing" (Actually, taking your time before just jumping into a full on dumbshit idiotic bandwagon of insane bullshittery, and fucking everyone and everything even worse than they were before you "DID SOMETHING", but who's keeping track? SOMETHING didnt happen INSTANTLY, and THAT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE!) is just how they feel it should be done, and you cannot convince them otherwise.
This bullshit with trying to demand fucking magic out of 3D printer makers and MakerSpaces, is just more of the same in that respect.
The issue with our problems with gun violence comes mostly from our having a culture of mystique about fucking tools that go boom-boom, and playing fast and loose with jingoism and ultranationalism.
For reasons that involve important(tm) people remaining Important(tm), those causal factors will never be properly addressed short of the whole nation suffering a cataclysmic disaster that forces the matter; As such, we will have these pearl clutching idiot motions instead, right along with people who think its "Cool" to blow through hundreds of dollars worth of ammo in 10 seconds, on an otherwise completely useless exercise.
I liken it to having a mystique about putting dangerous shit on power tools, and the resulting rash of injuries. Should you ban power tools? No-- You should combat the idiotic mystique, making the powertools dangerous. Should you ban the sale of the items people attach to the power tools? No-- those have legitimate uses and need to be available. Again, you should combat the idiotic mystique that causes the problems.
But we never will.
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Aside from Russia or China, (maybe Brazil?) very few other countries have the "huge geographic area" problem the US does, along with the "Huge swaths of rural areas without effective police or animal control presence."
Our 2nd Amendment makes it even more dicey.
Dicey? The 2nd amendment clearly states that because a well trained combat effective militia is essential to the defence of the state (a.k.a the USA) people have the right to own and carry guns, for the purpose of forming a combat effective USA defending militia, cannot be limited. That being said weird gun nuts usually leave out that first part about militias because it doesn't fit into their political narrative that anybody should be able to own any small arm used by the US military and that they should b
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I agree!
The above is *precisely* what I mean about "an idiotic mystique about tools that go boom-boom", AND about "playing fast and loose with jingoism and ultranationalism!"
AMAZING!
Re:Of course as we all know (Score:5, Insightful)
Not disagreeing with the wider point but this bit hasn't been true for a least a decade, at least for a significant majority. They say they care about the constitution but they don't; at most they care about things they think it protects or care about their imagined version of what the constitution is. Most would happily change it to ban flag burning etc. They definitely don't care that banning books in school is far more obviously opposed to the 1st amendment than checking if someone is insane before giving them a gun is to the 2nd amendment.
Ironically believing passionately in the actual costitution isn't a good thing. There is a reason why there are amendments, and why some amendments have been reverted. It is not the word of god and is no infallible.
Re:Of course as we all know (Score:4, Informative)
Anti civil rights nutcases usually cite the first part as if it's a constraint. It's not:
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INDEED!
thus, my own, more nuanced, centrist view. (which, again, is radically unpopular)
The right to not being completely defenseless, with the militia part explicitly cited as being such a legitimate exercise thereof, is more what 2nd amendment is for.
thus, my statement about large geographic areas that lack effective law enforcement, and animal control.
The matter of one's rights, what they are, where they start, and where they stop, is governed by when and how they affect other people.
to wit, the right of
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the verbiage of the bill of rights and also the constitution forbids that kind of narrow interpretation.
in its opening, the constitution asserts that just because a thing is not explicitly cited therein, it should not be considered to be unprotected, and that the ordering does not convey importance or primacy.
the nature of the document is well established against such interpretation.
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Dicey? The 2nd amendment clearly states that because a well trained combat effective militia is essential to the defence of the state (a.k.a the USA) people have the right to own and carry guns, for the purpose of forming a combat effective USA defending militia, cannot be limited.
The question isn't whether the constitution gives you a right. The question is whether it gives congress the power to limit your right. Having the right to own guns for a militia doesn't mean you don't have the right to own guns for other purposes. But I digress.
The absolute best case you can make for what the founding fathers intended with the 2nd amendment
The issue is complicated because the founding fathers were not a monolithic unit, the wording of the second amendment was a compromise between people who disagreed with each other. Different founding fathers intended different things. See https://e [wikipedia.org]
Re:Of course as we all know (Score:4, Insightful)
The 2nd amendment clearly states that because a well trained combat effective militia is essential to the defence of the state (a.k.a the USA) people have the right to own and carry guns, for the purpose of forming a combat effective USA defending militia, cannot be limited.
With you so far (though I would point out that while the militia clause is certainly the impetus behind the second amendment, there is nothing within that constrains that right to keep and bear arms for that specific purpose, and there is no enumerated federal power to otherwise regulate the keeping and bearing of arms. I'd also point out that "bearing arms" in the context of actual service in the militia would not be a "right" of the individual to be protected but a "duty" to the state that would be imposed. "You have the 'right' to be conscripted" is nonsensical).
That being said weird gun nuts usually leave out that first part about militias because it doesn't fit into their political narrative that anybody should be able to own any small arm used by the US military
Let's go with your construction, and assume the second amendment protects the private ownership of arms just for the people to be able to constitute the militia. How would "any small arm used by the US military" not be so protected? What would be the point of the right at all if the militia's equipment was guaranteed to be hopelessly outclassed by that of any body it would be fighting against?
and that they should be able to use it for any purpose they see fit completely without legal consequences to themselves.
This is just taking the piss. Nobody is claiming that arms may be used for "any" purpose without legal consequence. You do not have the right to bear arms to knock over a liquor store, for example.
The absolute best case you can make for what the founding fathers intended with the 2nd amendment (because I know how much American conservatives love constitutional literalism) is to allow you to own a smooth bore or rifled flintlock man portable fire arm in order for you to form a combat effective militia to defend your country.
Uh huh. And "the absolute best case you can make for what the founding fathers intended with the 1st amendment" is standing on your soapbox in the physical town square and yelling as loud as you can, or printing handbills on your movable type press, right?
I guarantee you they did not intend the 2nd amendment to guarantee your right to 3d print machine gun conversion kits
Horseshit. 3d printing is to gunsmithing as computers are to speech.
so that you could settle arguments over parking spots outside of Walmart, or express your frustration over not being invited to a sweet sixteen party with automatic gunfire.
And, again, you're taking the piss. Such activities would not be protected, those engaging in them or attempting to would be hanged.
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yes, and no.
I agree with you 100% that the right declared is pointless if people are effectively powerless (due to being outclassed).
i agree with you 100% that the right does not entitle the use of such armorments in illegal ways.
however, I DO DISAGREE with the assertion that none of the 2nd amendment pundits advocate for such activities with said weapons, and that nobody is saying that such advocation occurs.
there is a very alarming overlap with gun nuts, and 'so we can topple the government if we dont lik
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There is written evidence that some people in the 18th century considered it to be both things. For example,
Re:Of course as we all know (Score:4, Funny)
> That being said weird gun nuts usually leave out that first part about militias
And by "weird gun nuts" you mean "literate people who are capable of parsing a simple English sentence"?
"Breakfast being an important meal, the right of the people to keep and eat breakfast foods shall not be infringed."
What has the right here?
Hint: not the breakfast.
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Aside from Russia or China, (maybe Brazil?) very few other countries have the "huge geographic area" problem the US does, along with the "Huge swaths of rural areas without effective police or animal control presence."
Australia? Canada?
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ooh, a whole 2, 2 more!
Ah, AH, AH, AH!
(count von count laughter)
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You can't argue with someone who argues American Exceptionalism. All answers devolve to 'America is different in an awesome way that makes your proposal unworkable here'.
They're brainwashed idiots.
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nice strawman, I see you even bundled him into a nice little bandwagon with a group to associate with!
you thought of everything!
more, the US has the combination of:
1) a legally protected right to not be unarmed, if you choose not to be (which RU, CN, CA, AU, and BZ lack)
2) a huge geographic area (which all other frequently cited datasources on gun violence, such as the eurozone countries, lack)
3) a dangerous cultural mystique about #1 (which like #1, all others lack)
4) a dangerous fixation or fascination wi
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You're very in your American Exceptionalism.
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no, UK historically had the exact same problem, barring item 1.
those kids COINED the term 'jingoism'.
they got a lot better, when they got over that fixation.
i feel we would too.
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Aside from Russia or China, (maybe Brazil?) very few other countries have the "huge geographic area" problem the US does, along with the "Huge swaths of rural areas without effective police or animal control presence."
Um and your friendly Norther neighbour? You know the one which is bigger than American and everyone is very polite and they have moose and commute to work on Zambonis?
There's also that distinctly non neighbour a long way away where they speak American with a strange accent and literally everyt
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China, Canada, and Australia are all a similar size to the US in terms of pure landmass and size of rural areas.
Here's a map that lets you compare the true size of countries, without the distortion that 2D projections create: https://www.thetruesize.com/ [thetruesize.com]
Somehow, all of them have less gun crime than the US.
Even in the UK, there are rural areas where you can't expect the police to turn up for hours.
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indeed, the mention is that most rural farmers here own and keep guns, because it takes 30 to 60 minutes on average for the enforcement that does exist to show up when called.
that said armed farmers are perfectly harmless as neighbors, is 'kinda the point' about why 'the guns are not the problem'.
it's the mystique about how owning one makes you second only to god, and it's a god given right to own one, is what's dangerous..
this latter causes people without a need to own one (for protection) to INSIST they n
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Of course as we all know the solution to the gun problem in the US is asking 3D printer manufacturers to prevent printing gun parts.
Because that's what Charlton Heston would've wanted.
Do Americans stop and think for a minute about the fact that no other country in the world needs to hamstring 3D printer to curb gun violence?
So you think that banning metal tubes and physics is going to be easier?
(I'm not in favor trying to ban either one; I am just watching in bemusement.)
Re:Of course as we all know (Score:4, Informative)
An overwhelming majority of gun homicides occur with handguns (see fbi statistics) in drug/gang related crimes. Yet the number of repeat offenders that are back on the streets within weeks is off the charts. Plastic parts in a gun will get you all of 10min of use at best. It needs to be hardened steel for parts that experience the forces from igniting the primer and powder.
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Do Americans stop and think for a minute about the fact that
No, Americans do not think. And they sure as hell don’t care about facts.
If they did, they would realize Americas “gun death” problem, is actually and factually a mental health problem. Because suicide is the cause of the overwhelming majority of those deaths. No, not after COVID. No, not just this year. Every year for decades now.
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You're clearly off your rocker if you think that *suicide* is the cause of all these school children dying.
That's not what he said. What he said was still dumb, but it's still true that the gun deaths from suicide far outnumber the gun deaths from mass shootings and other murders combined.
You appear to have a gaping chest wound... (Score:2)
New role for aptly named Clippy. (Score:2)
Hi. It looks like you're trying to make an assault rifle. Would you like some help?
Maybe pass a law against file distribution... (Score:2)
The software that converts 3D models to low-level printer instructions is called a slicer. Any given model can be printed in an infinite number of ways that vary according to the slicer settings. But most slicers are open-source. If you convince all the main slicer makers to block certain models by hash or whatever, others can simply fork those slicers to remove the blocks. When someone goes to print their illegal part, and they get an error message about it being blocked, they can simply google the error
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Well, here's an idea. Perhaps the sliced files that go to the printer could be converted by the firmware to a voxel form, and then the voxel form could be compared with an on-device database of illegal parts, and the printer would refuse to print if a match is detected. I don't know how many firmwares are open-source, but if the slicer and the printer both give users headaches, the would-be killer might just give up.
But on-printer detection is no trivial endeavor, especially if you want a detection algor
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Depends on the printer. Converting gcode into voxels and validating that isn't going to work with a lot of models, and even then, there are a lot of Ender 3s and other basic Marlin i3 based bedslingers out there which have enough smarts to sling a print head and extrude filament, but the little MCU on the printer is definitely not enough to do much more than that. This is one reason why Klipper split things up to having an ARM SBC and the MCU for the motion/extrusion/heating system.
If printers started try
Shoe manufacturers next! (Score:2)
Letâ(TM)s ask shoe manufacturers to stop speeding
Letâ(TM)s ask door manufacturers to stop theft
Full auto is not the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure just about as many people would have been hurt if these disturbed individuals only had access to burst fire. The problem is disturbed individuals with access to guns. We should find better ways of a) identifying disturbed people and removing their access to firearms, and b) producing fewer disturbed individuals in the first place. We seem to be producing them at an abnormally high rate.
Barn, door (Score:2)
Censorship? (Score:4, Insightful)
So, are the printers supposed to upload patterns to the cloud, where they will be compared with some secret database? Reminds me of the Apple idea of uploading users' images for comparison to CSAM databases. Setting aside privacy concerns (we shouldn't, but just for argument's sake), you will have inevitable false positives.
Anyway, converting ordinary weapons to full-auto is trivial. In many cases, you don't need a new part, you just need to file down an existing part. Not all that many people have 3D printers, but lots of people own a file. Moreover, there will be little overlap between the owners of 3D printers and the people committing violent crimes.
Many governments look for every opportunity to impose more controls, and more censorship on their citizens. The flimsiest of excuses will do. The US is right up there with the worst of them. Put a system like this in place, and it won't only be gun parts that you aren't allowed to print. The next, logical step would be to check against any patterns that companies want to claim IP rights to. No more replacing that weird plastic gizmo that keeps your expensive appliance from working.
They want you to buy them ... (Score:2)
... at the Supermarket, like every other regular US citizen.
Umm... okay (Score:2)
In other news, U.S. Justice Department officials are turning to the word processor industry to help stop the proliferation of pornographic novels.
Talk about unclear on the concept.
Good luck with that.... (Score:2)
Mechanical engineering is not that hard if you just want to create a single device. You can even make pretty precise steel parts with an ElCheapo 3D CNC mill for $200. It just takes a while.
The problem is not these parts. The problem is the far to easy availability of guns and ammo. And while guns do not kill, they act as amplifiers and no-skill-compensators. Against a person with a knife or an ax, even somebody only armed with a chair has a pretty good chance if not surprised. And if the first person goes
putting the 1st and 2st on the line is not going t (Score:2)
putting the 1st and 2st on the line is not going to end well!
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