GM Will Pay $146M Penalty Because 5.9 Million Older Vehicles Emit Excess CO2 (apnews.com) 53
General Motors will pay nearly $146 million in penalties to the U.S. government, reports the Associated Press, "because 5.9 million of its older vehicles do not comply with emissions and fuel economy standards."
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in a statement Wednesday that certain GM vehicles from the 2012 through 2018 model years did not comply with federal fuel economy requirements. The penalty comes after the Environmental Protection Agency said its testing showed the GM pickup trucks and SUVs emit over 10% more carbon dioxide on average than GM's initial compliance testing claimed.
The EPA says the vehicles will remain on the road and cannot be repaired. The GM vehicles on average consume at least 10% more fuel than the window sticker numbers say, but the company won't be required to reduce the miles per gallon on the stickers, the EPA said... GM said in a statement that it complied with all regulations in pollution and mileage certification of its vehicles. The company said it is not admitting to any wrongdoing nor that it failed to comply with the Clean Air Act...
The enforcement action involves about 4.6 million full-size pickups and SUVs and about 1.3 million midsize SUVs, the EPA said. The affected models include the Chevy Tahoe, Cadillac Escalade and Chevy Silverado. About 40 variations of GM vehicles are covered. GM will be forced to give up credits used to ensure that manufacturers' greenhouse gas emissions are below the fleet standard for emissions that applies for that model year, the EPA said. In a quarterly filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission, GM said it expects the total cost to resolve the matter will be $490 million. Because GM agreed to address the excess emissions, EPA said it was not necessary to make a formal determination regarding the reasons for the excess pollution.
According to the article, David Cooke, senior vehicles analyst for the Union of Concerned Scientists, "said it's possible that GM owners could sue the company because they are getting lower gas mileage than advertised."
The article also notes that in 2014, Hyundai and Kia "entered into a settlement in which they had to pay a $100 million civil penalty to end a two year investigation into overstated gas mileage on window stickers of 1.2 million vehicles."
The EPA says the vehicles will remain on the road and cannot be repaired. The GM vehicles on average consume at least 10% more fuel than the window sticker numbers say, but the company won't be required to reduce the miles per gallon on the stickers, the EPA said... GM said in a statement that it complied with all regulations in pollution and mileage certification of its vehicles. The company said it is not admitting to any wrongdoing nor that it failed to comply with the Clean Air Act...
The enforcement action involves about 4.6 million full-size pickups and SUVs and about 1.3 million midsize SUVs, the EPA said. The affected models include the Chevy Tahoe, Cadillac Escalade and Chevy Silverado. About 40 variations of GM vehicles are covered. GM will be forced to give up credits used to ensure that manufacturers' greenhouse gas emissions are below the fleet standard for emissions that applies for that model year, the EPA said. In a quarterly filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission, GM said it expects the total cost to resolve the matter will be $490 million. Because GM agreed to address the excess emissions, EPA said it was not necessary to make a formal determination regarding the reasons for the excess pollution.
According to the article, David Cooke, senior vehicles analyst for the Union of Concerned Scientists, "said it's possible that GM owners could sue the company because they are getting lower gas mileage than advertised."
The article also notes that in 2014, Hyundai and Kia "entered into a settlement in which they had to pay a $100 million civil penalty to end a two year investigation into overstated gas mileage on window stickers of 1.2 million vehicles."
Sor for (Score:3)
The GM vehicles on average consume at least 10% more fuel than the window sticker numbers say, but the company won't be required to reduce the miles per gallon on the stickers
So for 146 million, GM gets to lie on their MPG Rating. I can see almost every car company signing up for that. That is couch change for GM.
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The mpg ratings are manipulable. It's just as likely that the govt manipulated the results in order to fine GM as it is that GM manipulated them to keep the fleet within EPA/CARB regs. Has anyone ever gotten the mpg on the sticker?
Re:Sor for (Score:4, Insightful)
Has anyone ever gotten the mpg on the sticker?
I usually get almost exactly the mileage on the sticker. Sometimes a tiny bit more, sometimes a tiny bit less but overall pretty close. Not everyone does, of course, because it depends on your driving habits. The better driver you are, usually the more fuel efficiency you will enjoy.
It's just as likely that the govt manipulated the results in order to fine GM
This is conspircacy theory thinking that requires people to stubbornly and stupidly ignore their own interests. If GM performed the tests correctly and the government faked their results, then GM would have challenged this in court and won. Litigation of this type *is* expensive; discovery can cost three or four milion. But $146 million pays for a lot more litigation than it would take to win an open and shut case like that, to say nothing of the half billion in total costs arising from the settlement.
GM settled because it expected to lose at trial conducted by an impartial judge.
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90% of drivers believe they are better than average. The other 10% deserve a medal.
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The better driver you are, usually the more fuel efficiency you will enjoy.
No, it has nothing to do with how well you drive. It has everything to do with how sedated a driver you are, however.
You're the kind of driver who coasts to a stop over the course of 2 blocks just to avoid hitting the accelerator. Arguably, the driving habits which result in the best fuel economy are demonstrative of people who are the most inconsiderate of other's time. They're horrible drivers, and cost people their lives - in tim
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Oh bullshit. You do not have to drive that way to hit EPA numbers and almost no one does (yeah a few do). After a break in I can hit Honda EPA numbers just driving like a reasonable person. It's easier on the highway if keeping withing +10 mph on the highway. Summers not as easy with A/C running but other than that, it's not as dramatic as you want it to be.
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> It's just as likely that the govt manipulated the results
The government doesn't perform the testing, so it's not clear how they would be able to do that.
> Has anyone ever gotten the mpg on the sticker?
Back when I was still driving an ICE I would routinely get better than EPA rating. My last ICE was a 2004 model though so maybe the testing requirements changed.
If you aren't getting the EPA range then chances are high you are either always carrying several bags of concrete mix around with you, or you
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Has anyone ever gotten the mpg on the sticker?
If I drive the speed limit, I usually exceed it, but I know when to shift. True of my '08 Versa and it was true of my '89 240SX as well. We had a 2000 Astro that got 26 reliably on the highway. I use cruise control when I can as well. Your right foot is your worst enemy when it comes to mileage.
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won't be required to reduce the miles per gallon on the stickers
2012 through 2018 model years. I'd venture a guess that those window stickers are long gone by now.
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I drive a 1995 Chevrolet S-10, if they'll buy me a large pepperoni pizza I'll let them slide. ;-)
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Dieselgate is everyone (Score:5, Interesting)
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Audi is foreign and GM is domestic. Can’t punish the home team too harshly.
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nah, gratuities are legal, thanks SCOTUS
Re:Dieselgate is everyone (Score:5, Interesting)
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Clarifying: They were fined 2.8B and the deal was they'd pay it in the form of EV infrastructure investments. They were not on the hook for both as separate penalties.
=Smidge=
Re: Dieselgate is everyone (Score:1)
Don't forget; the "fix" was in fact to actually make the car burn more fuel, therefore increasing CO2 output.
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Re: Dieselgate is everyone (Score:2)
Diesel engines are direct injection and most are now turbocharged. They can often do 500k miles.
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Re: Dieselgate is everyone (Score:1)
And direct injection gas engines suffer the same sort of issues as modern diesel engines for much the same reasons: the EPA mandated EGR system (imagine perpetually inhaling your own exhaust gas) allows searing hot exhaust carbon to mix with oil coming off the crankcase vent--and deposits a very hard oil infused carbon matrix in the intake plenum, and on top of the intake valves (and on the exhaust valves sometimes), eventually greatly diminishing the amount of air the engine can get, therefore greatly redu
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"Older ones, yes. Newer ones will get sold off soon after seeing the mechanics bills and lack of reliability caused by the emissions systems."
Heavy truck engines use the same systems. How do they last so long then?
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"Gaming" the system?
No, they have to do that to simply even meet the requirements.
We'll sign the cheque... (Score:3)
after the election, thanks very much.
Defrauded Customers (Score:3)
Normal humans: GM screwed customers by defrauding them over mileage claims.
Hell on Earth Cultists: Excess CO2!!!
A just settlement should be easy:
e.g.
Silverado has 200K miles on it. Bought in 2015. Average 20MPG. 10000 gallons.
Calculate smoothed price per gallon over the period; send the customer a check for 10% of that.
WAY more than $150M!!!
Moral of the story: in Fascist America crime pays.
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Normal humans: GM screwed customers by defrauding them over mileage claims.
Hell on Earth Cultists: Excess CO2!!!
Both can be true. Cars are a significant fraction of CO2 emissions, so it matters. Poor mileage also means more NOx per mile and more damage to health
A just settlement should be easy:
A fair calculation, except you'd have to track usage per owner so getting the money to the right people is not trivial. Maybe that works as an additional fine.
Tracking usage per customer (Score:2)
A fair calculation, except you'd have to track usage per owner so getting the money to the right people is not trivial. Maybe that works as an additional fine.
In Canada we have odometers on cars and when you sell your car you state the mileage on the car as part of the new owner registering the vehicle. I sort of assumed odometers are universal and registering a car pretty similar everywhere.
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Re: So . . . business as usual. (Score:1)
Governments just want to virtue signal their eco creds by ushering in EVs. They dont give a fuck about whether the car will be effective scrap in 10 years because by then they'll be out of power anyway and itll be someone elses problem.
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There is a way to do EV properly.
Standardized battery that does't use rare earths or toxic materials. You go to the charging station, you get that battery swapped out and you're on your way in minutes.
Anything else is stupidity as we're proving.
Re: So . . . business as usual. (Score:2)
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there are fuel cells that can do that, with most batteries it's hard because electrode's material involved in reaction
Emissions credits: a parallel monetary system (Score:1)
And who profits off of a parallel monetary system? Why the middlemen and the people who issue the parallel money, of course.
Why, were you naive enough to really believe that everyone's dollars were the same green these days? Silly goose! Some dollars are greener than others, especially if you have friends in high places.
Backup plan (Score:2)
Seems like extortion to me. (Score:1)
Connected cars (Score:2)
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or they would get owned by hackers
connected cars are to be avoided
83 USD per vehicle (Score:2)
Total cost 490 million USD for 4.6+1.3 million vehicle, that makes 83 USD per vehicle.
It is so low it begs for more cheating in the feature.
$25 per car (Score:2)
$25 per car and dont have to admit blame or fix anything. Sweet deal, EPA has the best civil servants money can buy!
Tahoe and Escalade are monstrosities (Score:1)
They never should have been allowed to exist in a sane world. There was no way they were ever meeting even their pathetic economy ratings. The Silverado is too big, but occasionally someone that actually uses a pickup truck for work buys one, so it kinda gets a pass.
The incentives to build big vehicles are so backwards and fucked. These huge-ass pickup trucks are terrible for roads, have awful visibility, are far more deadly to pedestrians, and have a SMALLER truck bed than older, smaller trucks. And then t
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yup (Score:2)
that'll teach em
sooooo (Score:2)