Proton Seeks To Secure Its Privacy-Focused Future With a Nonprofit Model (arstechnica.com) 19
Proton, the secure-minded email and productivity suite, is becoming a nonprofit foundation, but it doesn't want you to think about it in the way you think about other notable privacy and web foundations. From a report: "We believe that if we want to bring about large-scale change, Proton can't be billionaire-subsidized (like Signal), Google-subsidized (like Mozilla), government-subsidized (like Tor), donation-subsidized (like Wikipedia), or even speculation-subsidized (like the plethora of crypto "foundations")," Proton CEO Andy Yen wrote in a blog post announcing the transition. "Instead, Proton must have a profitable and healthy business at its core."
The announcement comes exactly 10 years to the day after a crowdfunding campaign saw 10,000 people give more than $500,000 to launch Proton Mail. To make it happen, Yen, along with co-founder Jason Stockman and first employee Dingchao Lu, endowed the Proton Foundation with some of their shares. The Proton Foundation is now the primary shareholder of the business Proton, which Yen states will "make irrevocable our wish that Proton remains in perpetuity an organization that places people ahead of profits." Among other members of the Foundation's board is Sir Tim Berners-Lee, inventor of HTML, HTTP, and almost everything else about the web.
Of particular importance is where Proton and the Proton Foundation are located: Switzerland. As Yen noted, Swiss foundations do not have shareholders and are instead obligated to act "in accordance with the purpose for which they were established." While the for-profit entity Proton AG can still do things like offer stock options to recruits and even raise its own capital on private markets, the Foundation serves as a backstop against moving too far from Proton's founding mission, Yen wrote.
The announcement comes exactly 10 years to the day after a crowdfunding campaign saw 10,000 people give more than $500,000 to launch Proton Mail. To make it happen, Yen, along with co-founder Jason Stockman and first employee Dingchao Lu, endowed the Proton Foundation with some of their shares. The Proton Foundation is now the primary shareholder of the business Proton, which Yen states will "make irrevocable our wish that Proton remains in perpetuity an organization that places people ahead of profits." Among other members of the Foundation's board is Sir Tim Berners-Lee, inventor of HTML, HTTP, and almost everything else about the web.
Of particular importance is where Proton and the Proton Foundation are located: Switzerland. As Yen noted, Swiss foundations do not have shareholders and are instead obligated to act "in accordance with the purpose for which they were established." While the for-profit entity Proton AG can still do things like offer stock options to recruits and even raise its own capital on private markets, the Foundation serves as a backstop against moving too far from Proton's founding mission, Yen wrote.
I'm glad they are trying (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not sure they will be forever immune from the desire for filthy lucre that wrecks everything else, but it's an attempt at least.
Support Proton (Score:5, Insightful)
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proxied mail? (Score:1)
Own domain and proxiedmail.com or similar as a compromise?
laws get in the way (Score:4, Informative)
story here from last week or two:
Earlier this year, the Spanish police Guardia Civil sent legal requests through Swiss police to Wire and Proton, which are both based in Switzerland. The Guardia Civil requested any identifying information related to accounts on the two companies’ respective platforms. Wire responded providing the email address used to register the Wire account, which was a Protonmail address. Proton responded providing the recovery email for that Protonmail account, which was an iCloud email address, according to the documents.
https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/08/encrypted-services-apple-proton-and-wire-helped-spanish-police-identify-activist/
https://techcrunch.com/category/security/
Re:laws get in the way (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't see a problem with law enforcement being able to make these requests, in and of itself. But that means when people see abuses of the system, they need to yell loud and long about it - doing their best to force legislators into action to prevent those abuses in the future.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
For starters most people are pushing the line that ProtonMail is unpenetrable, completely secure, 100% off the radar. It's Swiss, dontcha know.
We now know that's not true.
Secondly, anecdotally, law enforcement (USA) are using their tools to trawl through data, rather than pinpoint with judicial oversight.
There is definitely a risk of false positives.
So it's a rights vs greater good scenario, and law wins. Good law, crappy law, doesn't matter, the people in charge will get the data they want
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Also I am sure Proton insisted on seeing an actual warrant tied to specific information about a specific user rather than what happens in the US where wholesale warrentless collection is the norm.
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Unless you have insider information, replace "I am sure" with "If they live up to their claimed services"
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But in news to you and everyone, metadata is where it's at.
Who you talk to is more valuable than what you said.
Re:laws get in the way (Score:4, Interesting)
Originally you just signed up, over Tor if you like.
Then they had a spam problem so you either gave them a way to get your identity (outside email or phone) or made a small Bitcoin payment.
Then they stopped allowing Bitcoin payments. You now have to give up identifying info to get a Proton account.
Sounds to me like it lost its utility (or worse).
Note that they didn't raise the Bitcoin payment, they eliminated it.
Quite a shame, especially for the dissident journalists.
Re: (Score:1)
This is untrue. I just tried it. set up a brand new free account without providing any info whatsoever except for a gibberish username and password, then deleted the account. sure, there's a lot of crap on there about payments but none of it was required.
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You aren't making the point you think you are.
Yes, companies comply with governments.They gave over the recovery emails, rather than letting them silently intercept any actual messages.
That's not just window dressing, that's a huge distinction. Something something perfect enemy of good, baby with bathwater, private != anonymous, etc.
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None of that is the problem, the problem is the suggestion that it's all the same, that "private infrastructure is the only way to go."
The real trick here is, you're straw-manning. " The corporations have no real incentive to keep your data secret if it threatens their ability to operate. Saying so is window dressing." Who is saying that besides you? I mean, is Proton trying to cover up that news story you linked to? I don't think they are. They are quite open about what it does and doesn't do. Signal too,
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>The real trick here is, you're straw-manning. " The corporations have no real incentive to keep your data secret if it threatens their ability to operate.
How is that a straw man? You've build up your business for X years, possibly even with the best intentions, cops show up with subpoenas and such compelling you to divulge records. There's a gamblers calculation here: I want to keep the customer data safe, but I also want to stay in business... I don't want to be
Who is on the Board of the Foundation? (Score:2)
the Foundation serves as a backstop against moving too far from Proton's founding mission, Yen wrote.
It all depends on who has control of the Board of Directors of that foundation. If its the corporate executives then nothing has really changed. If the Board is comprised of its users then you may be on to something.