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The Courts

Could a Guilty Plea Free Julian Assange From Jail? (msn.com) 94

America's Justice Department "is considering whether to allow Julian Assange to plead guilty to a reduced charge of mishandling classified information," reports the Wall Street Journal, citing "people familiar with the matter."

Though Assange faces trial for publishing thousands of confidential U.S. documents in 2010, this development opens up "the possibility of a deal that could eventually result in his release from a British jail," reports the Journal.

Where things stand currently: A U.K. court is currently considering whether to allow a last-ditch appeal by the 52-year-old. After U.S. prosecutors charged him in 2019, U.K. law-enforcement officials apprehended him, and he has been in a London prison ever since... Britain's High Court is expected to decide within weeks whether to grant Assange a further right to appeal his extradition to the U.S. If the court rules against him, the U.S. government will likely have 28 days to come and collect Assange and bring him to face trial.
But... Justice Department officials and Assange's lawyers have had preliminary discussions in recent months about what a plea deal could look like to end the lengthy legal drama, according to people familiar with the matter, a potential softening in a standoff filled with political and legal complexities. The talks come as Assange has spent some five years behind bars. U.S. prosecutors face diminishing odds that he would serve much more time even if he were convicted stateside.

The discussions remain in flux, and talks could fizzle. Any deal would require approval at the highest levels of the Justice Department. Barry Pollack, a lawyer for Assange, said he has been given no indication that the department will take a deal. A Justice Department spokesman declined to comment.

If prosecutors allow Assange to plead to a U.S. charge of mishandling classified documents — something his lawyers have floated as a possibility — it would be a misdemeanor offense. Under such a deal, Assange potentially could enter that plea remotely, without setting foot in the U.S. The time he has spent behind bars in London would count toward any U.S. sentence, and he would likely be free to leave prison shortly after any deal was concluded.

U.S. authorities "gave a package of assurances, including a pledge he could be transferred to his native Australia to serve any sentence," according to the article. The Australian government, which has largely been supportive of Assange, could shorten any sentence once he landed on Australian soil, said Nick Vamos, a partner at London law firm Peters & Peters and a former head of extradition for England and Wales's Crown Prosecution Service. "I honestly think as soon as he arrived in Australia he would be released," he said.
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Could a Guilty Plea Free Julian Assange From Jail?

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  • Hey buddy. Hows it going? Haha, we're kidding. We know exactly how you're doing, since we totally engineered your current situation.

    First off, we gotta admit that we really pulled out all the stops while dealing with you. We're not nice. We let you have it, a whole lot harder than most of our enemies. On the other hand, you were really, REALLY asking for it and you REALLY pissed us off. As an individual, you publicly and proudly declared yourself as our enemy. You colluded with our worst state adversary
    • It is going to fun to go through the Russian archives in 2040 and watch the now front line 3 letter agencies chiefs squirm from retirement. The archives of the 1960s that were examined showed russia could have been pushed over with a feather. That Russia is about what we see, beyond a nuclear missile force, not much. They send the worst possible troops to meatgrinder because if they would send Moscow's favorite sons the war would end. If the west would really mobilize this Russia v west would be ov
      • Putin does understand western system. After all he's their protege. It's all about kill or be killed. Only when westerners and westernizers eradicate each other the rest of the world can move on.
        • The western system has produced the world’s best economies, and the best militaries. If you’re waiting for the west to die so your preferred system can take over, you might waiting a long, long, llllooonnnnggggggg time.
          • One extra comment - you seem to be stating that the west is especially violent, compared to the rest of the world? If I know my history correctly, Mao and Stalin produced waaayyyyy more body bags than the west ever did.
            • Firstly that's cherry-picking(ignoring stuff like huguenot purges and bengal famine). Secondly from my point of view communists are westerners too. Or at least westernizers.
              • by Anonymous Coward

                No True Easterner ...?

              • You say communists are... westerners... too..... um.... (removes eyeglass and rubs eyes)

                Ok, first off, how about socialism? Socialism and Communism are basically cousins. In practice they're almost twins. If you lump democracies (US, Europe, India, a chunk of South America, other), communisms (North Korea and who knows who else) and socialisms (China nominally, Cuba, a chunk of South America, other) together as "the west" which you hate, then what the heck are you proposing as the better alternative? Mo
                • It's all subjective. At some point in time Mongols were first world. At some point Romans. At some point Indians. At some point Chinese. Either way it's irrelevant. There is no one true solution. So what's the best alternative to "the west"? The same as the best alternative to having malaria. I.e. not having it.
                  • Gotcha. You’re a nihilist/anarchist. Cool. Organized societies need people like you around to keep them on their toes. But your philosophy never “wins”. All it can do it try to tear down what other people build. I’m glad that someone is willing to play that role, cause I would find it to be a pretty empty existence.
                    • Nihilism is embryonic form of all other ideologies. It is also what they all return to when it's their time to go. So when nihilism "wins", it won't be remembered as nihilism anymore, but rather whatever ideology people rationalize it as later post factum, the new ideology that was "born". It is so only because most people keep futilely seeking for immanent meaning in the existence. It isn't guaranteed that it will be so always though. People change.
        • You're in massive denial if you think "westerners" have a monopoly on violence. You might want to read some history, and say how the Comanche and Apache repeatedly slaughtered each other before Europeans got involved. Violence is in our animal side, and only a racist and an ignorant would say a certain group of people has a monopoly on it.
      • Well most Russians are still convinced that they're doing well because the ruble, their main unit of currency, went from being worth $0.007 to having parity with a zinc penny.

    • The US, unfortunately, is a grand empire in decline. Trump, mass shootings, plummeting fertility rates, deaths and crimes of despair, and xenophobic/paranoid bashing of other countries on the rise are evidence of it.
      • You forgot to check the "and this time, it will really happen!" box.

        • Yeah, I'm waiting for this "western decline" to actually materialize. Still waiting.

          It'll happen eventually. No system stays on top forever. But it's more likely to be "sometime around 2400" than "just around the corner".
          • https://www.voltairenet.org/ar... [voltairenet.org]

            The world order already changed in 2022

            • Holy crap. I actually clicked through to that link. 3 paragraphs into that article and the guy is talking about how a peace-loving Russia is in Ukraine because of a civil war there that was killing innocent people. Paragraph 4 is about how the west has framed Russia.

              THATS your evidence that the world order is changing?

              It just reinforces the position I chose a long time ago. I’m all-in on democratic capitalism. I’m sure that someday, somebody will figure out a superior system, but it
              • It's a bit silly to call someone "peace loving" who wants to end a civil war by force, but that's irrelevant. If you read that far, you'll have seen that Thierry says explicitly that you don't have to agree with him about Russia because that is not the point. That is just the context, which, he admits, can be interpreted in different ways.

                The point is after that. And it has nothing to do with democratic plutocracy, so it shouldn't threaten your world view.

                That's my source, it lists specific examples of h

  • No Deal. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Local ID10T ( 790134 ) <ID10T.L.USER@gmail.com> on Saturday March 23, 2024 @03:30PM (#64339327) Homepage

    If the US Government has the evidence that Assange committed Espionage by:
    -taking advantage of Manning's psychological fragility to actively encouraging him (was a he at the time...) to violate his oath,
    -and coaching Manning in HOW TO steal and exfiltrate the data,
    then show it -publicly- in court.

    If the US Government cannot produce such evidence, admit it.

    Either way, end this bullshit. It is old news.

    • Oh, journalism (the old-school kind).

      Imagine wanting "developing sources" to be illegal, much less overseas.

    • Re:No Deal. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by quantaman ( 517394 ) on Saturday March 23, 2024 @06:35PM (#64339711)

      If the US Government has the evidence that Assange committed Espionage by:
      -taking advantage of Manning's psychological fragility to actively encouraging him (was a he at the time...) to violate his oath,
      -and coaching Manning in HOW TO steal and exfiltrate the data,
      then show it -publicly- in court.

      If the US Government cannot produce such evidence, admit it.

      Either way, end this bullshit. It is old news.

      Ok, here ya go [arstechnica.com]. There might be some work to prove that Assange is the individual texting, but he they can he's in trouble.

      IANAL but AFAIK this is pretty standard stuff, if someone comes to you with stolen/leaked info the crime is already done and you can generally publish what you got.

      But if you specifically ask someone to leak that info then you can end up a co-conspirator if they follow through, like I recall some left-wing pundit asking for someone to leak Trump's taxes, and could have landed them in legal trouble.

      Even if they showed up after the initial leak the person Manning was chatting with seems to have been encouraging them to leak, that makes them a co-conspirator. Any country in the world is going to try and prosecute you for that.

      • but he they can he's in trouble

        I don't see it. Did Arstechnica just leave out the quotes where he does the active encouraging and decide to only publish the quotes where they're rambling about nothing? I don't want to read the whole thing, can you direct me to the part where he does the active encouraging?

    • If the US Government cannot produce such evidence, admit it.

      The US Government will never its wrongdoing in geopolitical bullying. The most it would do is to save face by agreeing to a no-lost-no-win bargaining deal [nytimes.com], but that's only if it is confronting its only formidable rival on this planet -- China (*).

      Australia is no China. Australia is just a puppet state of the USA. It cannot and will not fight for its citizen Assange, not to mention its own military had committed equally bad war crimes and prosecuting its whistleblower [aljazeera.com].

      (*) And for those who have claimed China

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

      Manning is still a he. Unless they found a way to CRISPR his Y chromosome somehow.

      • About Manningâ(TM)s gender: His DNA is actually quite irrelevant to his gender. Gender happens in the mind. Declaring it otherwise makes you mindless.
        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

          I reject your fantasy world.

          Gender being different from sex is a concept invented by a child abuser called John Money.

          This monster pushed the parents of David Reimer, whose penis hat been irreparably damaged in a circumcision to have the boy surgically turned "into a girl" and raised as such.

          He then experimented with the twins and forced them into sexual encounters WITH EACH OTHER at the age of six.

          David committed suicide after being a distraught and unhappy child at the age of 38.

          THAT is where this monstr

          • by ag0ny ( 59629 )

            Wow, you're fucking clueless about gender identity. Luckily for society you're already old enough, so you won't be posting stupid stuff on the Internet for much longer.

  • by arbiter1 ( 1204146 ) on Saturday March 23, 2024 @03:48PM (#64339359)
    "plead guilty to a reduced charge of mishandling classified information," Sounds like they want to set it as precedent for anyone that gets it when they never had clearance in the media to be charged if they talk about in news. He never had a clearance so claiming he mishandled something like that is bogus charge.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 23, 2024 @04:00PM (#64339399)
    So Julian is guilty of being a journalist... He revealed the war crimes of the US, and the fact that western nations use wars to launder money from the people into the pocket of the the elitist global cunts that believe they are our betters.

    People that dare to cross the state get locked up if not murdered. There lives are destroyed by the Fascistic-State that is masquerading as a Western Democracy.
    • I personally haven't encountered anybody that has an issue with him for anything WikiLeaks did with war related leaks, I myself have no issue with that as it seemed like the WikiLeaks mantra was "if you leak it to us, we release it and all of it". There was an heir of impartiality that lended it credibility.

      When he started communicating with political operatives, drip feeding releases, stating that he was only interested in leaking a particular candidates info, making himself the center of attention, he do

    • by sinkskinkshrieks ( 6952954 ) on Saturday March 23, 2024 @04:24PM (#64339455)
      He didn't deliver properly formatted manufactured consent, and was therefore deems a terrorist noncombatant who must be eliminated by an neocolonial hegemony led by powerful people who felt threatened that their lies, corruption, and mass murder of innocent people were exposed.
    • So Julian is guilty of being a journalist...

      No, his alleged crimes have nothing to do with publishing or revealing anything at all. It's best to understand what is being discussed before trying to be part of a conversation.

  • Assange may be a fruitcake, but he is an innocent fruitcake.

    Plea deals are fundamentally blackmail, getting you to admit guilt, without the government having to show evidence or prove anything. Pile on nonsense cgarges, to scare peopke into accepting. The government's case against Assange is weak to nonexistent. They know it, they gave always known.

    Assange ruined his own life, by making really stupid decisions. That's a shame. As others have said, he should have faced the accusations in Sweden.

    • Yep, but we're all weirdos. JA just wasn't good at socially-acceptable concealment/deception. He started life as a coder, after all. More power to him and his uniqueness.
  • How can he be charged with mishandling of classified documents when he had no expectation of doing so? That is reserved for military, contractors, etc who work with classified information. They have the expectation to protect national security and classified information. Assange is simply a third party journalist who is an Australian/Equdorean citizen.

    >18 U.S.C. 1924 says, âoe(a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, emp

    • by qbast ( 1265706 )
      Does it matter? You are talking about a country that still runs a torture camp in occupied part of Cuba and ran military tribunals” where US military personnel acted as prosecutors, defenders and judges. Oh, and confessions” obtained under torture were permitted. So who cares about laws, jurisdiction or all this legal crap.
    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      This.

      The only reasonable charge against Assange should be based on his assisting Manning in breaking into systems to obtain data. I don't want to see a precedent created for the mere possession of data that the US Army couldn't properly secure in the first place.

  • Assange is guilty of nothing but journalism and publishing details powerful people don't like. He would never bow to such a lie that would compromise his integrity and his life's work.
    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by hdyoung ( 5182939 )
      That dude is a journalist in the same way that that a panhandler standing on the corner asking for change is a licensed therapist.

      He’s a sworn enemy of the US. That came right out of his own mouth. Deliberately set out to influence the US electrions? Yup. Also directly admitted. And people wonder why the US came down so hard on him.

      A “useful idiot” that helped Russia? Pretty much verified.

      A rapist? That seems to be a he-said-she-said thing. Multiple women accused him, but it evid
    • Assange is guilty of nothing but journalism and publishing details powerful people don't like.

      He isn't being charged with anything related to publishing anything. Tell us you don't know what's going on without saying you don't have a clue what's going on.

      • What do you think he is being charged with?

        I lost track after they kept changing the charges. Last I heard was mishandling of secret data, soft of like forgetting to return secret documents that you took home if I understand it correctly. But that doesn't make sense because he never had official clearance to begin with.

  • by elcor ( 4519045 ) on Saturday March 23, 2024 @04:29PM (#64339471)
    don't
    • don't

      You clearly don't know the US legal system. It's not a trap as much as it is a gamble, a roll of the die. Normally you weigh up pleading guilty for leniency against winning your case, and in a local matter you may be better off dragging things through the courts. But this isn't a local matter. This is a complex international matter of global political significance. Odds that the USA doesn't have a case are quite slim, so the advice would be to definitely take a plea-bargain if offered here.

  • This reminds me of the sentencing of the "January 6 insurrection" guilty pleas. As I (a non-lawyer) understand it...

    Regardless of whether you consider it an insurrection or a protest march petitioning the government for redress of grievances...

    In the wake of the events, the fed busted a bunch of the participants and left them rotting in prison for months (over a year), with no end in sight. In many cases this left families with no breadwinner, enormous legal costs, and expectations of losing all their property as part of some eventual conviction.

    Then the prosecutors offered some of the defendants a plea deal; Plead guilty to a misdemeanor or short-sentence felony and we'll drop any other charges.

    Rule of thumb: a misdemeanor generally is a crime with a max sentence of no more than a year in prison, a felony more than a year - which is why you see "year and a day" max sentences on some crimes. An accused person already in prison for over the max sentence would expect that accepting the deal would result in immediate release with "credit for time served" (and others near the max might expect release much sooner). So some of them went for it.

    Came the sentencing some judges applied a two-year sentence enhancements for "substantial interference with the 'administration of justice.'" OOPS! No release for you.

    I'd expect them to pull the same sort of thing on Assange if he were foolish enough to plead guilty to anything, no matter how minor.

    (By the way: This particular form of the practice, as used on the Jan6 participants, was just recently struck down. But the decision was based on Congress' certification of the presidential election not qualifying as "administration of justice.'" So this wouldn't apply to whatever enhancement trick they might pull on Julian.

    • and left them rotting in prison for months (over a year), with no end in sight

      This is just standard operation, it's not some special thing that they only use against enemies of the state. It's an average of 12-18 months before you get your "speedy trial" in federal court, and 98% of federal cases end with a plea bargain. Literally 98% [npr.org].

      If you're only just now learning about how abusive our penal system is, look up how many people we put in prison, how many of those are nonviolent offenders, how long their sentences are, how many of those severe sentences are due to mandatory minimu

  • by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 ) on Saturday March 23, 2024 @07:07PM (#64339781)
    What's happened to the helicopter crew that actually committed the war crimes? Has anyone followed up on that? You know, justice & all that.
    • Why? What has your whataboutism got to do with the story at hand?

      • by evanh ( 627108 )

        I would think everything given the charges at hand are just a trumped up case to scare others away from exposing similar crimes. Like the invasion of Iraq itself for example. Even Bush called himself a terrorist after all.

      • What about it? That's easy. It's all part of the same chain of events:

        1. Govt. employees commit war crime by targeting & killing journalists (most likely a tacit policy of "shoot anything that moves") >
        2. Whistle-blower tells journalist about crime & provides evidence (performing his moral duty as a citizen) >
        3. Journalist reports crime & provides supporting evidence (doing his job) >
        4. Govt. prosecutes journalist & whistle-blower but not the employees who committed the cri
    • They were just following orders, under the then-current Rules of Engagement. As soldiers they are not responsible, thinking for themselves like civilians would make them compicit in a conspiracy to commit trespassing, mass murder, vandalism of public and private property, and theft. The blame rests with their commanding officers.

      Except, in one case involving deaths in a torture prison in Afghanistan, the soldiers who were following orders based in directives given by the vice president personally were acc

      • Re: "They were just following orders, ..." - Yes, that is a common argument, isn't it? Wrongful orders do not supersede moral duty & murder is murder.

        Re: Disappearances, torture, extra-judicial executions, etc., when you excuse this kind of treatment anywhere in the world, you can excuse it in your own country, against your own citizens too, e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/us... [theguardian.com]

        What goes unpunished becomes normalised & accepted. You former president, Barack Obama, is famous for declaring, "T
        • murder is murder.

          Ah, but then being a soldier would be illegal.

          • Believe it or not, there are laws about killing, even in war. The Geneva Conventions are a good starting point. They're pretty explicit about people who shouldn't be killed.
            • I've read it. Oddly, it is not specific about people who cannot be killed, it is taken as read that murdering civilians is a no-no.

              It is specific about how combatants can be killed, and what not to do to them when they are captured.

              You see, there is a line, and on one side of the line murder is a crime, and on the other side murder is a duty. Soldiers are not murderers though, because if they were people and thus culpable, they would be criminals.

              So you see, not all types of murder are the same:

              There are four kinds of homocide: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy, but it makes no great difference to the person slain

              • Philosophically speaking, perhaps, but when the ICC & ICJ are involved, it's quite a different matter.
                • Indeed. The ICJ doesn't care about individuals, only about subjects of international law, such as countries and peoples and the like. So in that context, murder is not a matter at all. Genocide is.

                  The ICC does care about individuals. In particular, it decides whose collateral murder is a war crime and whose isn't.

    • The helicopter crew that blew up the journalists in Iraq got sent to Israel to train drone pilots how to blow up kids in the field. All 4 seen at the start of this video become bits and pieces after being blown up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
  • If the defense gets any amount of discovery the pain to the three letter agencies about past action is immense. The reason we are hearing about this is preparing the public for the "time served" if he agrees never to sit down in front the media offer than he should turn down. Getting a 2 years already served and a big check from the US government for the anti free press methods would be justice. That is if he helped anyone hacking, don't think the generally confused Manning or "RUSSIA" needed any h
  • Well, it's an election year, and if you're willing to buy votes with trillions in student loan forgiveness, what's freeing a criminal?

    • Assange is not a criminal. He has not been tried, let alone found guilty, after at least twelve years of allegations. He hasn't even been formally accused yet, and the prosecutors haven't settled on what to charge him with in the last five years.

      Pleading guilty would be an admission of guilt. Then you could call him a criminal, but he also wouldn't walk free.

      As it is, it is doubtful if he can be extradited at all, what with the USA having a history of breaking international agreements and their human rig

      • Why are you spouting semantics at me?

        • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

          Semantics is the study of linguistic meaning. It examines what meaning is, how words get their meaning, and how the meaning of a complex expression depends on its parts. Part of this process involves the distinction between sense and reference. Sense is given by the ideas and concepts associated with an expression while reference is the object to which an expression points. Semantics contrasts with syntax, which studies the rules that dictate how to create grammatically correct sentences, and pragmatics, which investigates how people use language in communication.

  • There were a bunch of Jan 6 protesters who were deliberately overcharged (should have been hit with typical Capitol Hill trespassing charges, but hit with all sorts of extra stuff) and then encouraged to simply plead guilty to lesser charges to "make it go away" (time served, a little community service, etc). Then, after they agreed and plead guilty to the lesser charges, this DoJ notified their attorneys they were now being hit with new terrorism charges, and given they had already pleaded guilty, they wer

  • How Julian Assange be charged with mishandling classified information? It was never his responsibility to handle such information.

    People like Joe Biden, and Hillary Clinton, had the responsibility to correctly handle classified information. If a senator, or vice president, or secretary of state mishandled classified information, *that* would be serious crime.

Truly simple systems... require infinite testing. -- Norman Augustine

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