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China Government United States Politics

CIA Used Chinese Social Media In Covert Influence Operation Against Xi Jinping's Government (reuters.com) 114

Posted by BeauHD from the chasing-ghosts dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: Two years into office, President Donald Trump authorized the Central Intelligence Agency to launch a clandestine campaign on Chinese social media aimed at turning public opinion in China against its government, according to former U.S. officials with direct knowledge of the highly classified operation. Three former officials told Reuters that the CIA created a small team of operatives who used bogus internet identities to spread negative narratives about Xi Jinping's government while leaking disparaging intelligence to overseas news outlets. The effort, which began in 2019, has not been previously reported.

The CIA team promoted allegations that members of the ruling Communist Party were hiding ill-gotten money overseas and slammed as corrupt and wasteful China's Belt and Road Initiative, which provides financing for infrastructure projects in the developing world, the sources told Reuters. Although the U.S. officials declined to provide specific details of these operations, they said the disparaging narratives were based in fact despite being secretly released by intelligence operatives under false cover. The efforts within China were intended to foment paranoia among top leaders there, forcing its government to expend resources chasing intrusions into Beijing's tightly controlled internet, two former officials said. "We wanted them chasing ghosts," one of these former officials said. [...]

The CIA operation came in response to years of aggressive covert efforts by China aimed at increasing its global influence, the sources said. During his presidency, Trump pushed a tougher response to China than had his predecessors. The CIA's campaign signaled a return to methods that marked Washington's struggle with the former Soviet Union. "The Cold War is back," said Tim Weiner, author of a book on the history of political warfare. Reuters was unable to determine the impact of the secret operations or whether the administration of President Joe Biden has maintained the CIA program.
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CIA Used Chinese Social Media In Covert Influence Operation Against Xi Jinping's Government More

CIA Used Chinese Social Media In Covert Influence Operation Against Xi Jinping's Government

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  • What about social media in America against China (Score:3)

    by m00sh ( 2538182 ) on Thursday March 14, 2024 @10:33PM (#64316843)

    Seems like there is a huge push to push negative sentiment against China in American social media as well.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      https://foreignpolicy.com/2013... [foreignpolicy.com]
      The US in 2013 under Obama's admin abrograted key portions of the Smith Mundt act, allowing US government propaganda to be used domestically.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by christoban ( 3028573 )

      LOL It certainly doesn't need to be pushed.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        There was so much Chinese theft and copying in the 90s, that there was a belief the US was intentionally sending them technology (re: https://www.amazon.com/Year-Ra... [amazon.com]). I don't believe that, as much as China was a bad actor and the US intelligence had plans to exploit the accelerate the Chinese hybrid industrialization (ie cobbling together copies of US tech and what primitive experiments they could originate). Sentiment for China was negative 30 years ago. Social Media exposes the realities of the results

    • What about social media in America that is pushing negative sentiment about America?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

      Definitely seeing lots of bot comments. They're not even consistent with themselves. Chinese ships are supposedly made of tofu and their missiles are filled with water, but we should also be terrified of the possibility that they will try to invade Taiwan. They're putting countries into debt traps through the Belt and Road Initiative, but we should be worried that the those same countries are becoming too friendly with China. Honestly it's the same propaganda tactic they used on Russia. They say Russians ar

  • Foment instability with the truth (Score:5, Informative)

    by larryjoe ( 135075 ) on Thursday March 14, 2024 @10:33PM (#64316845)

    Interesting that the CIA used truths that are outlawed in China to foment instability, while China and Russia use falsehoods that are legal to do the same thing.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Truths can be considered interpretable when they are opinions, rather than facts. Even when stating facts, if not stating all the facts about a matter can lead to tons of falsehood conclusions. When the CIA comes up with shit like Operation Northwoods, I doubt we can trust the CIA when they say they are stating all the facts.

    • Can you be sure CIA used 100% truths and what China and Russia use is 100% false? Me, as an European, I won't trust any of them but also know a good lie has roots in something true.

      • Your European opinions don't carry the same weight as those of us from countries apparently ready to start nuclear war. Russia, China, US, India, Pakistan, North Korea, Iran ... These are the shakers and movers. And by shakers, I mean we're all terrified because they're fucking crazy. And by movers I mean I want to be some place safer.

    • Noobs. Professionals use carefully selected truth.

    • From what I remember, Russia Today (RT) won awards for their journalism & journalistic integrity. Spy agencies don't need to make up stuff about governments; there's plenty of dirt to dig through that's not that hard to find.

      It's also relatively easy to foment discontent in democracies that effectively ignore the wishes of their electorates so that no matter which way they vote, they get more wealth inequality, poverty, precarious employment, etc.. We can't blame foreign interference for those thing

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jabuzz ( 182671 )

        Really, Russia Today has been forced off UK television for repeated breaches of the rules. Though it might come as a shocker to an American but biased reporting on TV and Radio is illegal in the UK.

        • A law that is selectively enforced.

          Do you think GB News (AKA Wetherspoon's News) is unbiased? This is symptomatic of a broader problem with the UK's political system; It's a constitutional monarchy without a written constitution, rather the legal system is based on legal precedents. The glaring issue is that it is unclear whether many events/acts by British subjects can be reliably identified as legal or illegal before judgement. For example, it's illegal to play loud music of a certain repetitive beat

          • Wait what?

            Of all the problems with this sceptre'd isle you picked that?

            Just about every jurisdiction had slightly vague laws and humans in the loop because every situation is different. The more specific you get the more people find weird loopholes. Just about everywhere had something that aligns with breach of the peace or some equivalent.

            And literally every place had laws where it's not necessarily obvious if they are broken. That's why judges exist. Even civil law has precedent, even if it's not quite as

            • There's a difference between human rights laws that require interpretation, i.e. a written constitution, & making it up as you go along, i.e. the UK's legal precedent system.

              • I'm not going to disagree with the merits of a written constitution and I agree we should have one.

                However I think you have misunderstood what such a constitution will and won't achieve.

                What I mean (and I presume you) mean by constitution is a higher body of law, higher specifically in the sense 1. whenever there is a conflict between two laws, the constitutional one wins and 2. there are substantial additional barriers to modifying the constitution, making it much harder to modify than other laws.

                The goal

                • Yes, good point that a written constitution alone won't solve a lot of problems. But that's not the argument. The argument is that having a written constitution, i.e. making laws & rights explicit, means that you have a more stable, concrete basis upon which to argue merits & issues (the whole point of having written laws in the first place). Of course, a written constitution is only as good as its enactment & yes, some populist & corrupt politicians seek to undermine the spirit of constitut

                  • yeah.

                    I can see the argument but I'm not entirely convinced. My view is that the current laws and rights are explicit enough but the problem is they are too easy to change. Though fortunately, international pressure has been strong enough that the UK hasn't seceded from the human rights court it set up...

                    Having it being harder to change makes it harder for a penis in human form (Dominic Raab) to even bring it into question, since the barrier to amendments must be high (else how is it a constitution). Though

                    • One of the main & most attractive features of a democracy is rule of law & everyone is equal under the eyes of the law. Laws like those against certain types of music with certain beats & outraging public decency is that they're intended to be applied selectively, i.e. to privilege certain groups over & above others. They're one step up from apartheid & Jim Crow laws. IMHO, this is not something we should tolerate.

                    • One of the main & most attractive features of a democracy is rule of law & everyone is equal under the eyes of the law. Laws like those against certain types of music with certain beats & outraging public decency is that they're intended to be applied selectively, i.e. to privilege certain groups over & above others.

                      Are you referring to something specific? It sounds like you are, but I'm not 100% sure what.

                      In general yes, I agree. I don't know how much a written constitution helps with that

                    • OK, you're repeating the same arguments as above rather than addressing what I've said. Am I wasting my time?

                    • I mean, maybe? But I don't see how what you've said has much t do with a written constitution though.

        • Though it might come as a shocker to an American but biased reporting on TV and Radio is illegal in the UK.

          It's illegal to have a bias that's not Government-approved. Having the proper bias is just fine. Having a bias without an appropriate level of government bribes is highly frowned upon.

      • There is no truth in Pravda and no news in Izvestia ...

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by misnohmer ( 1636461 )
      Isn't that exactly how Putin got Trump elected? Carefully releasing leaks on Hillary, all true and carefully cherry-picked, even if obtained illegally.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Pieroxy ( 222434 )

        There is proof that Putin is behind it? It seems more credible to me that Trump (Or someone in his team) was the one releasing it.

      • Isn't that exactly how Putin got Trump elected? Carefully releasing leaks on Hillary, all true and carefully cherry-picked, even if obtained illegally.

        Putin didn't get Trump elected.

        You did.

        People like you... and servicescopeminor, and all the rest of the "Trumpanzee" screamers... pushed voters in his direction. He told them that people like you were arrogant asses that looked down on them, and hated everything about them. And you've taken every opportunity to prove him right. In politics, culture, religion, you name it, you guys have been gleefully poking those people with a stick for years. And when Trump was elected, you simply couldn't bring yourselve

    • CIA don't care about truth in China. They mess with it only because Chinese chose an ideological moniker for them that isn't pleasing to USians. Objectively communism and capitalism are just different variants of same base ideology: economic fetishism. And between close variants of same religion/ideology hostility is often the strongest.
  • But, but, but, ......What about TikTok?

    • Okay, what about it? It's pretty obviously a CCP psyop. Force Bytedance to sell it and see what happens.

      Next Congress needs to force Tencent to sell all their American holdings.

      • It's pretty obviously a CCP psyop.

        As in, an evil masterplan to lower Americans' average IQ? Please. Bytedance is just a business. They will hand over any data CCP demands, because that's how things work in China, but their goal is to make profit, like any other business. They just gambled on young people's attention span being even shorter than everyone else thought, and it paid off.

        I wouldn't be very sad to see TikTok go, but the plan is for it to continue being just as dumb as before, just owned by someone from US. China's policy has been

    • You're probably thinking Google/Facebook/Twitter. The CIA doesn't have too many tentacles in TikTok yet.

    • If the US Government wants to ban TikTok why does both Apple and Google push it to customers on their repositories of featured software? I noticed it's always front & center on both Apple's and Google's stores

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Malc ( 1751 )

        Because it's not banned yet? What grounds do they currently have for banning it? Can they prove they've broken any of their usage policies?

  • Shocked, I say!

  • Good! (Score:5, Informative)

    by Brett Buck ( 811747 ) on Friday March 15, 2024 @12:25AM (#64316985)

    I damn sure expect our government to undermine, thwart, impede, and generally do anything necessary to harm the CCP. They are enemies, they make no bones about being our enemies, and they are the bad guys,

    • Re: Good! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by FudRucker ( 866063 ) on Friday March 15, 2024 @04:04AM (#64317181)
      There are no "good guys" in this war, it's just one corrupt mafia style government battling another corrupt mafia style government.

      • Except, one of those governments you are allowed if not encouraged to criticize and use your free elections against and create lots of art about how super evil it is.

        The other one is not nearly as liberal with the freedoms it allows you, and it wants to bring that kind of oppression to many places of the world that have resources.

        But if you hate the US gov and the democratic system so much, I wonder why you have not moved to glorious Chyna? They are paying traitors eehhhh expats very well to gain as much kn

        • Uhm... wake up US. Remember that Trump guy that did not accept he lost elections? You know the guy that makes the most ridiculous idiot statements. Yes, the one that is proud he still had his own hair? The guy that may actually get reelected? Don't preach about democracy if its on the verge of being raped to bits in your own country. Get your act together.
          Sincerely,
          The EU
          • Dear EU, Why are you worrying about anything in the US, don't you have autistic Swedes to listen to? Or perhaps some Dutch farmers to harass? No wait, shouldn't you be surrendering to a bunch of jihadists who have formed enclaves in your countries? Perhaps when you get done hating Donald Trump, you can figure out we don't get all bent out of shape about being upset at election losses, otherwise we'd have to disqualify most of the Democrats who were in Congress during 2016, and all the MSM who continued to i

          • Democracy is about to be steamrolled in Ukraine and all the EU seems to be able to do is hold the US's coat, even trough our stumbles, the EU seems unable to take the lead even when it's in your own backyard.

        • But if you hate the US gov and the democratic system so much, I wonder why you have not moved to glorious Chyna?

          FFS that's not the point and your argument produces the exact opposite of a useful result.

          Our government does so much of anti-democratic and financially corrupt garbage that it's impractical to even begin listing it; and every time it does, it costs us credibility with potential allies and support from people who actually care about ethics and liberty. The only way a democracy works is if the citizens have high standards and hold leaders to account.

          What exactly do you think we will be left with if the peopl

      • There are no "good guys" in this war, it's just one corrupt mafia style government battling another corrupt mafia style government.

        Don't make me cry. My government is supposed to be better than this. How did the bad guys capture our system of governance?

        • Because democracy is a never ending battle, and we forgot that. We became complacent and have allowed it to errode. Now we argue over meaningless partisan politics and ignore the rights we lost, the transparency that has disappeared, and the steep decline in quality of statesmen.

      • There are no "good guys" in this war, it's just one corrupt mafia style government battling another corrupt mafia style government.

        Do you know what would happen if you had posted this in the U.S versus posting this in China?
        In the U.S. nothing bad will happen to you.
        In China, you are taking your life into your own hands when you post anything anywhere.

        Feel free to go live in China... or as the case may be, die in China.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      One of the reasons why many Chinese citizens are happy with the CCP's controls over internet content is that they see it as protecting them. Their lives have been getting better for a decades, and the CCP attributes some of that to the controls, while citing how in the US with all its freedom, you get insurrections and widespread misinformation.

      What I'd like to know is if these CIA operations against the CCP make things better or worse. Do they make Chinese citizens less supportive of their government and m

      • CCP's social agreement was to provide growth. It has for a generation of Chinese citizens, what this generation has never experienced is a great decline in economic conditions as China is facing now. They only know about economic conditions, they are not aware of the geo-political fragility due to censorship. The west is de-coupling as fast as the private sector can. This is a whole new world these folks have never experienced. 1bn mouths, experiencing inflation and the exit of businesses in plain sit

    • I damn sure expect our government to undermine, thwart, impede, and generally do anything necessary to harm the CCP.

      I do not expect/demand such things from our government.

      They are enemies, they make no bones about being our enemies, and they are the bad guys,

      So you want to keep them that way until we eradicate them? WTF?

      We absolutely should defend ourselves from their machinations. That does not mean we should engage in similar machinations. How will the fighting ever end or are we supposed to fight forever?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

        Yeah, this whole "China is our enemy" thing needs to cite some sources. They're not our friends, but I don't see how it's in their (the CCP's) interest to have the US collapse either. We're their biggest export market. And until recently, they bought tons of our debt. Why would they lend us money if they wanted us to fail?

        I don't dispute that we were harmed in the relationship in various ways, but that all happened because some rich people decided it was profitable to give China whatever they wanted. Jobs?

    • For sure. This has been going on for DECADES. It is the job of that agency to do this kind of work, _outside_ the US. Whole books have been written about this. I have read one. Back in the early days, operatives would be airdropped into the country. The ones that were caught were often tortured and imprisoned, and sometimes surgically mutilated. This social media approach is safer for the agency employees, perhaps - if they are not somehow detected posting from inside of the country.

    • What is surprising is that many people were claiming that Trump was Xi's lapdog because he had too close ties to him.
      Seems like it was the "keep your enemies closer" approach that I expected.

  • This was a secret military operation. Hang the reporter.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sconeu ( 64226 )

      Reuters is British. Good luck.

    • "This was a secret military operation. Hang the reporter."

      Traitor doesn't have the meaning you think it does.

      You have to be willfully aiding and abetting an enemy, not merely an adversary.

      If we were in a declared state of war, it might be treason.

      Stop making shit up for attention.

      • making shit up for attention

        I wasn't using the term in a legal way, obviously. Stop peacocking around for attention.

        If this guy can be brought up on anything, he should be. He is a traitor to an ally and to democracy.

    • Jail the leakers, not the writer.

      Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater

  • $300 Million and rising to groom you (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Canberra1 ( 3475749 ) on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:46AM (#64317069)
    Easily $300 Million is spent on shaping the news to the way bias parties want it to be. Its been a while since VOA and BBC shortwave were discontinued. This would just be the govt direct spending. TV stations and Newspapers also take sides and express bias in the election leadup. PR drafted press releases are often printed or read out verbatim. Outspoken journalist are threatened wit (Italy and Spain are some democratic exceptions). However in Europe and Germany, traditional media is harming 'forever' shoe-in candidates, when open immigration and banning farming is crossing the peoples red lines - and the vote for party C out of disgust. Fortunately the world has moved on, and a well-placed, funny TikTok video can destroy predictions at the last minute - or a viral X clip or interview. Single issue -baby! is what you do when both choices are about 95% the same anyway. And if voting is futile, put the others who have no chance of winning at the front, and the person you hate most, the last. This sends a messages to politicians to be careful.

  • Great job (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Njovich ( 553857 ) on Friday March 15, 2024 @03:26AM (#64317159)

    So while it did no damage at all to the CCP or Xi Jinping, we now gave them legit arguments to further crack down on information access and we also gave the russians to go 'whatabout' on any interference they do. Nice job guys.

    • Summary: "Reuters was unable to determine the impact of the secret operations or whether the administration of President Joe Biden has maintained the CIA program."

      You: "it did no damage at all to the CCP or Xi Jinping"

      Dum de dum dum dum.

      "we now gave them legit arguments to further crack down on information access"

      You think they need justification? You're adorbs.

    • Meh. It is still better than using Polio vaccinations as a method of finding Bin Laden. The fallout from that could last a thousand years or more.

      • Meh. It is still better than using Polio vaccinations as a method of finding Bin Laden. The fallout from that could last a thousand years or more.

        Jesus I forgot about that. It was such a big deal before I don't know, half our own country came out fully anti-vaccine and destroyed every last shred of sympathy I had for morons suffering preventable disease. Which seems like a bigger deal than Pakistan using its own resources to deploy vaccines to rural parts if they truly don't trust foreign help. Let them deal with their own anti-vaxxers.

        Worldwide vaccine skepticism for absolute dumbass reasons Trumps the harm from foreign doctors narcing on the intern

    • So while it did no damage at all to the CCP or Xi Jinping, we now gave them legit arguments to further crack down on information access and we also gave the russians to go 'whatabout' on any interference they do. Nice job guys.

      Were you born yesterday? What was the legit argument for the Great Firewall of China they already have? What other way does China have left to crack down on information access than what they currently do, besides turning it all off?

      And Russia?! *gestures towards Russia* ... seriously? You're concerned about Russia restricting access to information... because of THIS? Do you really not know what's going on there?

  • ... is exactly what the CIA should be doing.

    • No wonder they are so unpopular with Trump.

    • More like a bunch of leftists trying to reshape the world in their view.

      After making a big deal about election interference, they go and do pretty much the same thing to other countries.

      CIA should be absorbed and integrated into the military and operations overseen by oversight committees.

  • to demoralize russians by dropping extra large condoms there marked "Made in USA. SIze medium."
    https://www.rbth.com/history/3... [rbth.com]

  • ... news would be if they didn't do stuff like that, like every secret service ever, and everywhere.

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