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Airbnb is Banning Indoor Security Cameras (theverge.com) 103

Airbnb will no longer allow hosts to use indoor security cameras, regardless of where they're placed or what they're used for. In an update on Monday, Airbnb says the change to "prioritize the privacy" of renters goes into effect on April 30th. From a report: The vacation rental app previously let hosts install security cameras in "common areas" of listings, including hallways, living rooms, and front doors. Airbnb required hosts to disclose the presence of security cameras in their listings and make them clearly visible, and it prohibited hosts from using cameras in bedrooms and bathrooms.

But now, hosts can't use indoor security cameras at all. The change comes after numerous reports of guests finding hidden cameras within their rental, leading some vacation-goers to scan their rooms for cameras. Airbnb's new policy also introduces new rules for outdoor security cameras, and will now require hosts to disclose their use and locations before guests book a listing. Hosts can't use outdoor cams to keep tabs on indoor spaces, either, nor can they use them in "certain outdoor areas where there's a great expectation of privacy," such as an outdoor shower or sauna.

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Airbnb is Banning Indoor Security Cameras

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  • what about condo common areas?

    • That wouldn't be part of the AirBNB unit being rented and they would have no control over that other than to ban condo units which they won't do since they've worked so hard to ruin those buildings.
  • by suutar ( 1860506 ) on Monday March 11, 2024 @12:02PM (#64306801)

    I'm not seeing how banning interior security cameras is going to prevent people from trying to hide cameras inside the house that were already breaking the existing rule.

    • by quantaman ( 517394 ) on Monday March 11, 2024 @12:14PM (#64306843)

      I'm not seeing how banning interior security cameras is going to prevent people from trying to hide cameras inside the house that were already breaking the existing rule.

      For the hidden cameras it makes the rule violations a bit easier to enforce. Now renters have a simple heuristic in that ANY indoor security camera they find is banned and sends a stronger message to owners that indoor cameras are BAD. It probably doesn't help much, but it should help a little.

      But I think the real issue is that the private/common distinction was a bit problematic. When I'm inside a house I do have an expectation of privacy even in the common areas. I should feel comfortable walking around in my boxers or initiating a private moment with my partner (even if the private moment finishes in a bedroom). Renters find any sort of indoor camera to be very intrusive.

      • by mysidia ( 191772 )

        But I think the real issue is that the private/common distinction was a bit problematic

        The "Private" space should be the Portion of space being exclusively rented to one Guest; regardless of its normal use.
        Absolutely If you have rented exclusive use of the entire house; there should be no cameras inside there --
        that's not a common area. If you rented an Apartment in an apartment complex -- everything inside your space
        is a Private area, and the common areas would be the hallways and other facilities o

        • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward

          your rights to put up cameras in the Living rooms and hallways if they are Outside the areas rented in the listing.

          Do you throw one of those D&D dice to decide whether to put in a capital letter or not?

    • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Monday March 11, 2024 @12:39PM (#64306935)
      It's about the cameras you can see that take pictures of you doing little things that short-term landlords use to charge tons of extra fees.

      A lot of Airbnb and other short-term rentals aren't profitable unless you can tack on a bunch of fees after the fact. It's a common trick to lure people in with a low rate that hotels can't match and then charge them cleaning fees and other fees in order to make up the difference and keep the whole thing profitable.

      Airbnb doesn't care about the landlord's profitability though they care about throughput because they take a percentage of everything. And just like there is always a ton of uber and Lyft drivers willing to try their hand at driving as a second job there's a nearly unlimited supply of people with just enough retirement savings to buy a rental property and try their hand at being a landlord. That's what Airbnb is counting on
    • I'm not seeing how banning interior security cameras is going to prevent people from trying to hide cameras inside the house that were already breaking the existing rule.

      Correct. But, let's look at it from the perspective of a guest. The old policy requires a two-step process to claim there is a violation: (1) the guest(s) must judge whether or not a camera is a violation; and (2) the guest(s) must write up the claim in sufficient detail so that Airbnb can understand the situation well enough to act upon i

  • by DaMattster ( 977781 ) on Monday March 11, 2024 @12:05PM (#64306809)
    Hosts do all kinds of shady things. What's really to stop them from continuing to install hidden cameras in the Airbnb units? The only thing to stop them are harsh criminal and civil penalties but they won't be enacted.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      It's their own damn house. There is no such thing as an Airbnb "unit".

      If Airbnb wants to implement the same rules as hotels then they need to be taxed and regulated as such. If they're still claiming these are people's homes being rented out then the homeowner can damn well put up cameras to protect themselves and find out who's destroying their property.

      • In my thinking the ideal would be comprehensive photos before and after (but not during) each stay, which would protect both sides.

        Unfortunately I don't know how to enforce that.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by JBeretta ( 7487512 )

        It's their own damn house. There is no such thing as an Airbnb "unit".

        If Airbnb wants to implement the same rules as hotels then they need to be taxed and regulated as such. If they're still claiming these are people's homes being rented out then the homeowner can damn well put up cameras to protect themselves and find out who's destroying their property.

        If you don't want to play by AirBnB's rules, then list YOUR house on a different service.

        The level of entitlement to think you can use a service but ignore their rules......

      • > the homeowner can damn well put up cameras to protect themselves and find out who's destroying their property.

        I'm not sure how such would work. Even if they had video of a perp busting their stuff, what can they do about it? Taking it to the cops will possibly get them in trouble with AirBnB for not disclosing cams, and possibly fined or jailed under local peeping laws.

        Ignoring whether it's "fair" or not, it doesn't seem practical.

      • It's their own damn house. There is no such thing as an Airbnb "unit".

        If Airbnb wants to implement the same rules as hotels then they need to be taxed and regulated as such. If they're still claiming these are people's homes being rented out then the homeowner can damn well put up cameras to protect themselves and find out who's destroying their property.

        I'm willing to wager the majority of listings on Airbnb or other similar services are no longer, if they ever were, owner occupied units looking to make a little money on the side.

        • by Calydor ( 739835 )

          Almost certainly. AirBNB is essentially 'Uber for houses' (or maybe Uber is AirBNB for cars, I dunno), and one thing I remember very vividly about Uber's early days was the promise that it was ride-sharing rather than taxi driving. You're already going from A to B via C? Why not earn some money from the guy needing to go from C to B? And now look at how it works. There is absolutely no reason to assume AirBNB is any different.

          • but then uber took control of the pricing of rides, the system of posting them, ect.

            If uber let drivers for X rate I can take someone from C to D at time A

      • If they're still claiming these are people's homes being rented out then the homeowner can damn well put up cameras to protect themselves and find out who's destroying their property.

        Sure they can. Just not through AirBnb.

    • by ajakk ( 29927 )
      But this does impose harsh criminal liability because previously owners could argue that their customers didn't have an expectation of privacy in areas outside of the bathroom and bedroom. Thus, if you had a camera up in living room, the host would argue that they couldn't be arrested under peeping tom statutes because their customer had no expectation of privacy. With explicit rules against recording, the customers can say that they relied on the AirBnB rules, and they expected that they had privacy insi
    • What's really to stop them from continuing to install hidden cameras in the Airbnb units?

      Hopefully being banned from Airbnb if they get caught, though I admit I did not read the article.

  • by davide marney ( 231845 ) on Monday March 11, 2024 @12:08PM (#64306813) Journal

    This is a good move. Externally-facing monitoring systems such as doorbell cameras are still permitted, within limits, while interior-facing monitors are completely banned. Besides the threat of being de-listed, this puts some real teeth into the threat of being sued. If we find a host who is spying on us after April 30th, there's no question they are breaking their contract with Airbnb by doing so.

    Here's the actual announcement [airbnb.com] from Airbnb.

    • Every time I see AirBnB mentioned it’s because the nightly fee is reasonable but the cleaning and facilities fees are straight up price gouging. Often times much more expensive than a hotel. If I’m expected to clean after my stay then what is the $500 fee for?

    • Sure it's a good move, but should have been done YEARS ago... and they still have all kinds of of other issues with shady renters. They are making some changes, but they have a long way to go before they become a good alternative to a nice clean professional hotel again.
  • As a guy living in a duplex right now? I've considered AirBnBing out the upstairs unit before. (Currently, it's a non-issue because my adult daughter moved back in with me and is using it. But at some point, I'll be back to it being vacant again.)

    I don't have indoor cameras set up in there (only a few outdoor ones). But I feel like first off? AirBnB has no leg to stand on to demand I "inform customers of their presence"? I don't necessarily mind telling them I have them? I feel like really, it's for their o

  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday March 11, 2024 @02:03PM (#64307259)

    All the residents of an apartment complex have to do now to ensure that their neighbors won't rent out their apartments to party people who cause a ruckus all night long is to install cameras in the corridors?

    Good to know.

  • by nadass ( 3963991 ) on Monday March 11, 2024 @04:26PM (#64307801)
    This is all another grand scheme for Airbnb to disqualify payouts to hosts when their properties are damaged. Don't let the spin tell you otherwise!

    I was a host with Airbnb for several years until they started to change how they do business -- from charging fees, to demanding changes in procedures for booking/reserving/reimbursements, to creating a list of criteria which disqualify a host from collecting ANY funds from Airbnb's guarantees for damage to hosts' property during any stay.

    When Airbnb guests caused property damage, all Airbnb did was give my personal account a few hundred in travel credit instead of a proper payout to repair damages. So I installed a security camera (PER THEIR GUIDELINES) to properly chronicle future guests' damages. But Airbnb found another way of NOT paying out their guarantees because they decided to change my Superhost status retroactively.

    Now they're changing THEIR OWN GUIDELINES of security cameras so that they can argue that hosts are violating Airbnb policies, all of which conveniently allow Airbnb to provide more plausible deniability and REDUCE THEIR PAYOUTS against damage claims.

    And at every step of the way, they increased their fees (both to hosts AND to guests) and made the calculus so obvious that I don't host on Airbnb anymore, and I don't guest with them either -- hotels and motels are cheaper.
  • So, everyone was fine with indoor cameras before now?

    Can you imagine the uproar if a hotel chain announced they were installing in-suite cameras?

    You tech bros and your "disruption" are just creepy, man. Creep, creepy, creepy.
  • Their popularity seems to have been their downfall. In the past air "BNB" meant, the hosts took care of their home, and were possibly nearby, or had someone close to do it for themselves.

    Now it has become an industry. People took mortgages, which they could not otherwise pay, and lent their homes to larger companies like Vacasa. It is good to have professional services for listings, photographs, and cleaning. But the security aspect (the guest stole all the china and messed up the place!) needs a more local

If money can't buy happiness, I guess you'll just have to rent it.

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