Biden Administration To Unveil Contractor Rule Set To Upend Gig Economy (reuters.com) 213
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: The administration of U.S. President Joe Biden will release a final rule as soon as this week that will make it more difficult for companies to treat workers as independent contractors rather than employees that typically cost a company more, an administration official said. The U.S. Department of Labor rule, which was first proposed in 2022 and is likely to face legal challenges, will require that workers be considered employees entitled to more benefits and legal protections than contractors when they are "economically dependent" on a company.
A range of industries will likely be affected by the rule, which will take effect later this year, but its potential impact on app-based services that rely heavily on contract workers has garnered the most attention. Shares of Uber, Lyft and DoorDash all tumbled at least 10% when the draft rule was proposed in October 2022. The rule is among regulations with the most far-reaching impacts issued by the Labor Department office that enforces U.S. wage laws, according to Marc Freedman, vice president at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the largest U.S. business lobby. But he said the draft version of the rule provides little guidance to companies on where to draw the line between employees and contractors. "Economic dependence is an elusive concept that in some cases may end up being defined by the eyes of the beholder," Freedman said.
The Labor Department in the proposed rule said it would consider factors such as a worker's "opportunity for profit or loss, investment, permanency, the degree of control by the employer over the worker, (and) whether the work is an integral part of the employer's business." The rule replaces a Trump administration regulation that said workers who own their own businesses or have the ability to work for competing companies, such as a driver who works for Uber and Lyft, can be treated as contractors. [...] The Biden administration has said the Trump-era rule violated U.S. wage laws and was out of step with decades of federal court decisions, and worker advocates have said a more strict standard was necessary to combat the rampant misclassification of workers in some industries.
A range of industries will likely be affected by the rule, which will take effect later this year, but its potential impact on app-based services that rely heavily on contract workers has garnered the most attention. Shares of Uber, Lyft and DoorDash all tumbled at least 10% when the draft rule was proposed in October 2022. The rule is among regulations with the most far-reaching impacts issued by the Labor Department office that enforces U.S. wage laws, according to Marc Freedman, vice president at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the largest U.S. business lobby. But he said the draft version of the rule provides little guidance to companies on where to draw the line between employees and contractors. "Economic dependence is an elusive concept that in some cases may end up being defined by the eyes of the beholder," Freedman said.
The Labor Department in the proposed rule said it would consider factors such as a worker's "opportunity for profit or loss, investment, permanency, the degree of control by the employer over the worker, (and) whether the work is an integral part of the employer's business." The rule replaces a Trump administration regulation that said workers who own their own businesses or have the ability to work for competing companies, such as a driver who works for Uber and Lyft, can be treated as contractors. [...] The Biden administration has said the Trump-era rule violated U.S. wage laws and was out of step with decades of federal court decisions, and worker advocates have said a more strict standard was necessary to combat the rampant misclassification of workers in some industries.
I'm completely shocked. (Score:5, Insightful)
An actual article involving the current potus that relating to policy to get peoples attention instead of 'He who shall not be named' is bad to distract from bad policies.
I know way too many IT workers (Score:5, Insightful)
All that before we talk about how Uber & Lyft wouldn't have a company without those "independent" contractors. Or how they'll cheerfully lock you out of the app if you fall below 4 stars or if you don't take one fares that aren't profitable.
the US does need better labor laws and staffing fe (Score:3)
the US does need better labor laws and staffing firms some times are used to get out giving workers stuff like paid time off or sick day pay.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What I do get from the anti-contractors' views is that it feels like companies are taking advantage of the work force. Maybe they are of some workers. But what I don't get that we live in a free society and nobody's forced into working as a contractor. I have been offered full-ti
So the key here is 28 years (Score:5, Insightful)
One of the dirty little tricks that gets used and has been for some time is that new employees are treated significantly worse than older employees even for contractor work. Companies know that they can abuse younger workers and they do it even at a large corporate level.
This is why you can have a situation where my kid works in the same field as there grandparents but makes about half the money adjusted for inflation.
When I pointed that out and how fucked up it was to my kid they argued against it because they felt they didn't have enough experience even though they had just been through a 4-year program 12 months of which was raw on the job training. Meanwhile neither of their grandparents had anything more than a high school diploma...
This is how wages are statistically flat even though pay is much lower.
Re: (Score:3)
One of the dirty little tricks that gets used and has been for some time is that new employees are treated significantly worse than older employees even for contractor work.
Tell that to one of my friends who was salaried with an on-call bonus for weekends, then they took the bonus away but kept the on-call work. IT companies treat the middle aged employees just as bad as the young ones. The only difference is that younger folks think this sort of thing is normal.
Re: (Score:2)
There have been drastic changes over the last 28 years that you're not going to notice because you are already established in your career.
One of the dirty little tricks that gets used and has been for some time is that new employees are treated significantly worse than older employees even for contractor work. Companies know that they can abuse younger workers and they do it even at a large corporate level.
First you imply this is a new thing but then admit that it's been going on "for some time". And you mix up "new" employees with "younger". What you are describing has been going on a lot longer than "28 years", I can personally vouch for 45. And I'd bet money it's gone on for much longer than that.
This is why you can have a situation where my kid works in the same field as there grandparents but makes about half the money adjusted for inflation.
That's because when their grandparents entered the field it was "new" and the number of people available was minimal. I started with punch cards. 5 years later I was making "crazy money" just because I knew ho
Re: (Score:2)
This is why you can have a situation where my kid works in the same field as there grandparents but makes about half the money adjusted for inflation.
So you're saying you don't believe employees should get periodic raises based on performance and/or seniority? Or do you think that raises should be across the board, disregarding the employee's status or performance? Do you think an employee who started just the day before should get a 10% raise just because one person has been working there for 5 years is getting it, or even be at the same pay level on the first day as the employee who's about to retire after 40 years at the company? Entry level jobs a
Re: (Score:2)
They make okay money until their car breaks down or needs maintenance.
I learned that lesson the hard way after the water pump went out in the car I used to drive for Uber in.
As for your other point, you must be lucky that you haven't been taken advantage of...yet.
It will happen, and when it does it won't be easy.
Re:I know way too many IT workers (Score:5, Insightful)
There's another problem, just twenty years down the road when the Social Security Administration looks at their ten best years of their wages where withholding was made... and find nothing.
These people will be driving and doing gigs until they *die* and won't be able to retire and have any sort of earn-in to a pension. They'll become dependent on the state and/or charity for any aid, any medical care, etc. This is going to get serious as a burden on society, and pretty soon.
Re: (Score:3)
There's another problem, just twenty years down the road when the Social Security Administration looks at their ten best years of their wages where withholding was made... and find nothing.
That doesn't make sense. I am a contractor, but work under my own corporation's hat. Under my corporation, I have to quarterly file form 941 with the IRS. On that form, you actually mark the amounts you paid to the government for SS. If those calculations aren't right, then you can bet your ass that the IRS will be after you. If you're a 1099 worker, you have to file things yourself, but the IRS will still come after you if you don't pay SS. Now, if you're supposed to file with the IRS and you're not
Re: (Score:2)
But what I don't get that we live in a free society and nobody's forced into working as a contractor.
Look at the cost of housing and groceries lately and tell me with a straight face that people aren't truly being forced into doing whatever shitty hustle helps them get closer to making ends meet.
Being a contractor should mean that you're an independent business owner, not an employee getting the shaft because some greedy company stuck that label on their form of employment. One of the defining characteristics of being a contractor is that you set your own pricing for your goods and/or services. Funny how
Re: (Score:2)
Actual ride-share contractors: Empower (Score:5, Informative)
Being a contractor should mean that you're an independent business owner, not an employee getting the shaft because some greedy company stuck that label on their form of employment. One of the defining characteristics of being a contractor is that you set your own pricing for your goods and/or services. Funny how all these "gig economy" jobs don't let you do that.
It can be done. There's a new rideshare gig company called Empower that legitimately treats drivers as contractors.
It's just like the Uber/Lyft apps, except that the drivers dynamically set their own individual fares, and are not manipulated by the algorithm (they really can decide when and where they drive and which jobs to take/decline, etc).
The cost to riders is (in my experience, slightly) cheaper than with Uber. Like Uber, the rider knows up-front what the fare will be.
Instead of the company taking a huge cut of the fare, the driver gets the entire amount. The driver pays a fixed subscription fee for the dispatch service.
The drivers are background-checked and insured and the vehicles are just as nice. Empower has the same range of vehicle class choices, but also has features that the other "ride share" services do not. For example, you can request favorite drivers if you have ones you like. You can request a same-gender driver.
Empower drivers say that they make twice as much as on Uber/Lyft. According to the latest subscription plan information I just now looked up, that appears to be true. (There's a tiered plan based on the driver's earnings, and the percentages are at least twice as good as what Uber would have taken.)
I probably sound like a commercial for Empower, but I'm just a rider. I live in the suburbs of a major metro area (D.C.) well-served by Uber and Lyft. Unable to drive in must-drive place, I am forced to take a lot of Ubers. I have found that I can get an Empower ride just as quickly, even though Empower is a new and much smaller operation. I've only done it a few times so far, and the fare was slightly better than Uber.
I have posted many times in flaming detail about how despicable Uber takes advantage of their drivers, and how most of them only mistakenly think they are "making money" (because they do not understand their true costs of operation). I don't know if Empower drivers are as clueless, but at least they are really contractors, can control their business, and have a more obviously fixed cost for one component of their overhead. And better rates.
I guess we'll see if Empower or anyone can get anywhere in the face of the Uber-company, and how the latter will react in these changing competitive environments.
Re: (Score:2)
There is nothing wrong with being a contractor, if you are fairly compensated for it. The problem is when being a contractor is forced on you because your circumstances. Employment law is their to protect the vulnerable and companies simply calling you an employee so they can get away with getting around those laws should not be allowed.
Note: I am not in the US.
When I was a contractor I was paid well and treated fairly. However I see contractors on the lower end getting paid minimum wage, loosing their job
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
BTW, you're using the "but this is the way we've always done it" excuse, which isn't a valid argument against something that's clearly wrong.
Re: (Score:2)
I think the challenge in trying to define it is that there are true independent contractors who have their own business but service primarily one client at a time, then there are the "staffing agencies" who are employer-of-record but not employer-in-fact... then there are gig workers who likely fall into different categories themselves.
Solving or modernizing the gig worker issue to me is lowest priority; most of the people I know or meet are comfortable with their current arrangement. True independent contr
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah I refuse to do agency work. I cant stand the concept of them. I've had a situation earlier in my career where I was earning barely more than graduate wages, and then learned the agency was being paid more than twice what was being passed on (And thats not including taxes). For what? They lined me up an interview.
I resigned on the spot when I found that out.... and the end client company was just as horrified as I was at how little I was being paid compared to what they where paying, then hired me on as
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah and it has really rotten effects on workers long term security too. I worked as a "contractor" for years until I went to the bank to try and secure a mortgage for a new house and the bank outright refused to loan me money even though I was earning nearly 40% more the cited income required for the loan. The reason was simple;- If I'm a contractor I dont have the job security required to guarantee I'll continue to be able to pay off the loan. This has *insidious* implications, because it forced me to kee
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
"Economically dependent" (Score:2)
Expect gig economy companies to require new hires to sign a waiver stating that the gig is a part-time activity to earn a bit of extra cash but not their primary activity they depend on to pay the bills.
Everybody who's "economically dependent" on them will naturally sign because they need to work. Just like everybody who needs to use Microsoft products professionally have been agreeing to outrageous EULAs for decades and can't refuse the lopsided terms because they need to work.
In short: nice gesture, but
It's not a nice gesture (Score:3)
This is Joe Biden telling the gig economy to knock at the fuck off and to stop abusing th
Re: (Score:2)
Everybody who's "economically dependent" on them will naturally sign because they need to work.
Who are these "economically dependent" workers? Do they not have any other choice? Perhaps they're doing it because they like [...]
I've taken more than 1,000 Uber rides, talked with many drivers, and they fall into the categories that you describe. They could get jobs in retail/fast-food, and even professional jobs in some cases, but don't want someone "bossing them around" and telling them when they have to come to work. And there are plenty of such jobs around here. A few are doing it for extra money, when they feel like it, but don't need the money. (Which is a good thing, because I'm pretty sure they are only making $3/hour at best
Re: (Score:2)
Most places that hire require degrees and a modicum of schooling.
What are you talking about? Fast food? Cashier at grocery store? Auto mechanic? Working the isles in Menards or Home Depot? Is your viewpoint that narrow that you can't see anything outside a corporate job? The jobs I listed would not be considered "gig economy" work. Those jobs still exist.
Re: (Score:2)
Last I checked most places still hire part-time and full-time employees.
Check harder.
Most places that hire require degrees and a modicum of schooling. If all your have is a driver's license, or a strong set of legs to pedal a bicycle, being a pretend taxi driver or a food delivery cyclist with slave wages and zero benefits is pretty much all that's open to you.
They don't have McDonalds or grocery stores or retail or factories where you live?
Cue the cranks (Score:3, Insightful)
Cue the cranks, and by "cranks" I mean the Republicans who will do their utmost to spin this as some horrible affront to workers or the American way or the fabric of spacetime or whatever stupid fucking shit they're wetting themselves about this week.
FACT: This is good for workers and good for the country. That means that Republicans will characterize it as the worst thing ever. You'll see. Just like when they said the unemployment rate was "too low" and might be "bad for America". Also like when they downplayed the stock market's recent record high, and said it "could put America at risk."
Re: (Score:2)
Blaming a political party means you've already drank the kool-aid.
This is more presidential ruling by fiat while congress is too busy on social media to do any real work.
Re: (Score:2)
Blaming a political party means you've already drank the kool-aid.
Right, because political parties are blameless, they never do anything wrong.
Re: (Score:2)
They're both responsible. Pitting us against each other is how they maintain control.
Re: (Score:2)
It is: It means employers can no longer control wages. In the 1970s, that lead to stagflation and sympathy-union strikes.
Today, is different: Employers have been controlling wages too much and (capitalist) economic responses are faulty.
What Republicans really mean is, they don't want the usual mechanisms for labour redistribution (re-training, job-hopping, unionization) to occur. So, low unemployment is bad, yes, and they don't want higher wages, or labour redistribution.
Which is why this year suf
Re: (Score:2)
Found the crank doing his utmost to spin this as some horrible affront to workers.
If gig work is so great, why aren't you doing it?
driving jobs should pay full irs rate + TOLLS + pa (Score:2)
driving jobs should pay full irs rate + TOLLS + parking fees.
And they should pay miles round trip. Say you an UBER working the airport you should get the full miles for the trip and then the miles to get back to the airport waiting zone.
Re: (Score:2)
driving jobs should pay full irs rate + TOLLS + parking fees.
And they should pay miles round trip. Say you an UBER working the airport you should get the full miles for the trip and then the miles to get back to the airport waiting zone.
See my post about "Empower".
some gig systems hide where you are going or the r (Score:2)
some gig systems hide where you are going or the rate after you take the job and if you try to say no to it that gets you an black mark.
Re: (Score:3)
Why would you take a job that you make a loss on?
As a real contractor, you wouldn't. But gig economy apps play games when presenting the "jobs", they don't let you negotiate your own bid, and maintain performance metrics which will result in you getting less work (or even banned from the platform) if you cancel an unprofitable job.
Re: (Score:3)
Why would you take a job that you make a loss on?
Because you are an idiot. OK, I'll be more charitable. Because you are naive and unable to calculate how much you are making. Uber drivers typically do not understand their operating costs, and their net profit is FAR less than they realize. (In some cases, they do at least sort of realize they are destroying the vehicle they rely on, and not accounting for the repair or replacement cost. Or think that they will someday have a real job which can pay back that expense.)
But mostly they could make MORE money b
ban tip baiting and make so that tips can not be (Score:2)
ban tip baiting and make so that tips can not be cut after the job is done.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's fine, it also eliminates tip baiting.
Re: (Score:2)
Tip with cash then.
Workers tipped in cash are required to empty their pockets and hand over anything they got to the employer, who then decides how much (if any) of it they get to keep. A common practice is to pool all the tip money together and divide it among all the workers, including those who you don't interact with. Or the manager can just keep it. Is this legal? Mostly.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Just get rid of tipping completely.
Why should I tip a driver before they've done their job and I have no clue the quality they'll provide? They can drop the food off in the wrong spot and pocket the tip. Why should my tip be a percentage of my total? It doesn't matter if I ordered $15 of food from Taco Bell or $50, the driver is doing the same amount of work. The entirety of tipping culture is awful and toxic. People think they deserve tips when they don't. People think it's appropriate to tip when it's not
Re: (Score:2)
It doesn't matter if I ordered $15 of food from Taco Bell or $50, the driver is doing the same amount of work.
I just want to point out the flaw in this. Bigger order equals more work. However, in terms of effort it's a not a linear increase. The bigger problem here, and goes along with your overall point to get rid of tipping, is that to get reliable and quick service it sorta becomes the opposite. You "need" to tip a higher percentage on the smaller order to offset the crap pay they get. Effectively, as long as their crap pay and tip equal a reasonable amount it'll work out.
Re: (Score:2)
It doesn't matter if I ordered $15 of food from Taco Bell or $50, the driver is doing the same amount of work.
I just want to point out the flaw in this. Bigger order equals more work.
Except when it doesn't.
Like in this example.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Just get rid of tipping completely.
Why should I tip a driver before they've done their job and I have no clue the quality they'll provide?
For "ride share", you do not tip ahead; you tip afterwards, if you feel like it. In the few places where the government has deemed the drivers to be employees who must be paid minimum wage, it is questionable whether one need tip at all -- because what you're paying up front is dramatically higher than before. That all makes sense.
What does not make sense is tipping before services are rendered. Yesterday the grocery delivery driver came well before the scheduled window. He's supposed to take the groceries
Time for a Middleman (Score:2)
I guess these "gig" companies will simply need to do what so many other industries already do, hire a middleman.
The middleman (i.e. staffing firm/temp agency) is a company who hires "workers" so the "gig" company can easily scale down or up and reduce employee cost and associated risks. The middleman company's provided workers will likely be regulated by an entirely different set of rules, because they are not technically employees of the "gig" company.
I'll take half of what ever Uber etc. is paying their
Re: (Score:2)
OR just form their own?
Re: (Score:2)
I guess these "gig" companies will simply need to do what so many other industries already do, hire a middleman.
The middleman (i.e. staffing firm/temp agency) is a company who hires "workers" so the "gig" company can easily scale down or up and reduce employee cost and associated risks. The middleman company's provided workers will likely be regulated by an entirely different set of rules, because they are not technically employees of the "gig" company.
I'll take half of what ever Uber etc. is paying their lawyers and MBAs for that little gem.
They're not that dumb.
There are middleman companies already.
That's not how they (are allowed to) work.
Go ask for your money back from wherever you got your JD and MBA online.
What about CPAs? Other IT consulants? (Score:5, Insightful)
Life as an independent contractor can be $250/hr (or more) and a lot of hours. Coding ERP integration, custom reports, fixing database problems, tracing down and fixing out of balance accounts for the monthly close, integrations with everything everywhere, business modeling and projections, etc. If you force them to become employees, there is no way they will make anywhere near that much. In many cases, the company paying dictates a lot about what is done and how. You often must use the company's computers and cloud services (for all sorts of security reasons)
For "economically dependent"
A) opportunity for profit or loss (Contractors can't really lose money. At $250 and hour, this is a sure thing unless there is no work)
B) investment (Minimal. Nice shirts? Business cards? I assume the CPA earned years ago and degree from MIT doesn't count here)
C) permanency (Client tend to keep coming back, projects always drag on)
D) the degree of control by the employer over the worker (You have to follow the client's rules. You might be required to work at their location.)
E) (and) whether the work is an integral part of the employer's business. (I'd call accounting and ERP as core. Walmart is more IT supply chain than anything else. If you can't run this stuff efficiently and effectively, you go bankrupt.)
Watch unforeseen consequences and "Gee, I thought the law was meant for..."
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is employer choice vs "employee" choice. Some roles are not full time, but can pay quite well for ~20 hours a week or 40 hours a month. Having multiple part-time W2 jobs takes power away from the contractor.
I get the issue with tax avoidance for someone that doesn't have overhead and profit baked into their rates, but taxation should not be the primary concern in classification; it is a separate issue that you need to figure out.
Re: (Score:2)
When you are W2 you (should) get paid less than a 1099. In return you should get benefits. This is broken with part-time work, hence why setting yourself up as a contractor is significantly better for the individual, and almost neutral for the employer.
unforeseen consequences may happen but low end abu (Score:2)
unforeseen consequences may happen but low end abuse has gone to far and some of that also happens at non low level jobs with BS like.
Must rent our hardware / software / truck / desk.
Must work our hours.
Must come to our work party but you are not allowed to bill for that time.
Must take our classes and tests.
Must rent our office.
So if I run a fence building company (Score:4, Insightful)
It is not fine if I'm a CPA and rather than hire employees to do extra taxes I pretend they're contractors. The line is pretty obvious I don't have a CPA Business without accountants so I don't get to hire a accountants and pretend their contractors. The same is true if I'm a software development company and instead of hiring the programmers that make my software I turn them into contractors. Again the line is pretty obvious just ask yourself if this contractor was gone would I still have a functioning company?
The key difference is that an employee is someone you need for the service or the production of the goods your company makes the bulk of its profits from. Contractors on the other hand are brought in for things that are outside the service your company provides and makes its money off of.
This is why uber, left and doordash are all violating the law. If you take away the drivers they don't have a company. They don't even get to pretend that they're just a platform to find willing drivers because they exercise extensive control over the quality of their drivers.
Re: (Score:2)
And I hire a CPA that's fine because I build fences.
Only if the CPA contracts with other companies, too. If your operation is big enough to generate enough hours for the CPA (may be less than full time; that's his call), so that most of the CPA's income is from your company, then he's economically dependent on you and you have to treat him as an employee, even if neither you nor he want that.
You make an argument based on the purpose of the business vs the type of labor, but AFAICT, that has nothing to do with this proposed rule.
Re: (Score:2)
It is not fine if I'm a CPA and rather than hire employees to do extra taxes I pretend they're contractors.
I believe the people that you want to hire come from firms with names like "AccounTemps". You (B2B) pay the company based on some hourly rate (which the worker does not actually get).
I am not sure whether the workers (who technically don't work for you, even though they are at your premises and totally directed by you) are 1099 or W2. (I think they're W2, but that's not your problem. They get benefits from the contracting company.
That'll be $5,000, please, Net 30 since we didn't have an open PO; and Thank Y
Re: (Score:2)
Watch unforeseen consequences and "Gee, I thought the law was meant for..."
This. Always this.
Re: (Score:2)
What about them? These rules will leave them unaffected. They only target fake contractors. Real contractors are not "economically dependent" on the company they work for, i.e. they set their own rates and own contractual terms.
No CPA or consultant I have ever worked with comes in at work randomly charging his time at a fixed non-negotiated rate to a 3rd party mobile phone app provider.
The only CPAs or consultants that have such little autonomy are actually full time employees of contract companies, and are
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
As a contractor of 28 years [...] I'd absolutely hate it if I had to become an employee
In what way would this new law do anything like that?
some restaurants franchises should be covered unde (Score:2)
some restaurants franchises should be covered under this as at some now days you have very little control and need to pay for store upgrades out of your pocket with little to no control over pricing.
Oh, great (Score:2)
Now the LLC I own is going to be forced to pay the only contractor (myself) more. Which is kind of a pain because what I'm holding back is my estimate of taxes and business expenses. I wonder if I'll be forced to buy healthcare via the LLC rather than directly.
Re: (Score:2)
Now the LLC I own
How many people doing app-based gig economy work bothered to register their own actual business for the work they're doing for the gig companies? If we're going to have a litmus test for whether someone is a real contractor or an employee, having your own LLC should firmly place you on the side of "contractor" Besides, if your contracting business is a one man show, you're even legally allowed to opt out of Worker's Comp. insurance.
Re: (Score:2)
One might hope, but I'm not a big believer in trusting the government to do the right thing. So they may "fix" the Uber/DoorDash problems and hose over a bunch of singles person LLCs. I know I can opt out of workers comp on the federal level, and I think I can also do so at the state level, but one of my clients has a dumbass "we require the businesses we work with to have X, Y, Z" lists with no process for exceptions and item Y is w
More votes for Trump? (Score:3)
Biden just pissed off a group of people that want something other than a full-time job.
Re: (Score:2)
No he didn't. You're still free to be a contractor all you want. In fact more free now since you actually get a say in the terms of your contract instead of being an underpaid part time employee without the benefits of that title.
Burn down the gig economy (Score:5, Insightful)
The gig economy is just a fancy word for "exploit the hell out of workers".
Now, I haven't been an employee for 25 years. I started my own company in 1999, sold it in 2018, then worked as a contractor until 2023. So I am all for contractors and entrepreneurs.
But the gig economy is not the same as being a contractor. When you're a contractor, you set your own hours and prices. You get to pick and choose which clients to work for.
Gig economy workers can't do that. Maybe they can pick their own hours to some extent. They certainly can't set their own prices and they will be kicked off the platform if they turn down too many jobs. Contractors are entrepreneurs who've decided that the contracting life is for them. Gig economy workers are simply employees being exploited by greedy corporations who cover up their shitty business model with shiny high-tech veneer.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's almost like (Score:2)
the puppeteers in charge of the Democratic Party have realized that the Republicans could run a plastic coat hanger against Biden, and they'd still have zero chance of keeping the White House or either house of Congress. So they're going to shove through as much as they can by Imperial, er, Presidential fiat, knowing that most of it will get tossed by SCOTUS, but hoping some will survive.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Democrats are going to LOSE ...
It's difficult to determine that: We know Biden is highly disliked (for making enduring changes to quality of governance) while Trump is highly popular (for doing fuck-all).
Historically, 40%-47% Of US voters agree with the fascist/authoritarian/Christian regime offered by the Republican Party, which is difficult to overcome. While it seems the Democrat party cannot win, the Republican party is their own worst enemy. There's the in-fighting, the reneging on their own moral principles (although admiring
Re: (Score:2)
2020 was pretty close, but a lot of the people who voted for Biden didn't know what he'd do. Now they do.
Excellent rule (Score:2)
These companies are clearly preying on the vulnerabilities of their employees and cheating them out of benefits. I've seen plenty of IT shops where most people are contractors, they get no vacation and have expensive and crappy health insurance. They also have zero job security.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Action to shore-up the political base (Score:2)
Sorry, this will sound partisan to some of you here... I cannot help it, it's history and a political party was involved.
In California in 2019, the Democrats answered the demands of the unions, who are a critical part of the political base of the party, and passed a law designed to hit Uber and Lyft. The idea was to make all those drivers into employees, and then they could be unionized. It was called Assembly bill 5 ("AB5") [wikipedia.org]. They could not narrowly tailor it to Uber and Lyft without running afoul of the US
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
This is how you know the Trumptards are terrified of Biden. They don't have jack shit to say about him that's substantive, so they project their own sick fantasies and attribute them to Biden.
Re: In other news... (Score:2)
Actually what youâ(TM)ve both done is shown the supporters of ideology and individuals are typically retards.
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)
Being too old and visibly senile is not substantive?
Yes, Trump is definitely both those things, thanks for reminding us. He's only 3 years younger than Biden and constantly saying batshit things, like the Civil war could have been "negotiated" and literally the day after a school shooting in Iowa that people should "get over it" and "move forward". Trump tells Iowans to ‘get over’ school shooting at campaign event [theguardian.com] Trump's such a sociopath, I'm sure, he was thinking, "Those kids were too young to vote for me anyway."
As I've said before:
If this was a drinking game, with a shot every time Trump said something incoherent and/or unhinged, we'd have all died of alcohol poisoning by now.
So as crazy as Trump sounds (Score:2)
A good example of this is when he goes on about shower heads and low flush toilets and everyone's trying to figure out what the hell he's talking about and why.
If you live in apartments those things were forced on you sometime ago so that your shower barely works and your toilet barely flushes. Your dishes don't come clean either because unless you have a real
Re: (Score:2)
All that said I have no idea what he was going on about with the magnets.
Seriously go Google Donald Trump and magnets and you will find an absolutely insane quote.
I read about that and could only think, "WTF?" Then I read it again and could still only think the same thing.
Re: So as crazy as Trump sounds (Score:2)
Basically it's a whole bunch of stuff that resonates with a class of people that often vote republican. Specifically lower working class independent voters. Due to a combination of our fucked up health care and are fucked up education system I got stuck in apartments so I know what he's talking about...
Unfortunately, no health care system in the world has a cure for FAS; there's just nothing you can do about it other than treat some of the symptoms. Unless you mean to say that your parents couldn't afford a medical abortion or something, so they tried that method and it didn't work?
And did our education system fail you, or did you fail our education system? Because the people who finish it tend to know the difference between "our" and "are".
Oh, and not all apartments are cheap. You should clarify when you
Re: (Score:2)
Most of the crazy has been because he's using dog whistles that you won't get unless you're either knee-deep in politics or dirt poor or both.
So, when he said that RINO Jeb Bush almost started world war 2 when he invaded Iraq, what was the hidden message?
Re: (Score:3)
Because you're ignoring the obvious elephant in the room in that whatever one may think of Biden, or criticize him for, Trump is much, much, much worse.
Re: (Score:2)
Being too old and visibly senile is not substantive?
Of course that's substantive. But this is the American presidency we are talking about. Two successive republican administrations have shown the ability to form coherent thoughts or speak in sentences is not required. Why put unreasonable expectations on a democrat if you goal is to replace him with someone significantly more retarded?
I just have to laugh that in the greatest country on earth with a population of 330million, these two are the best you could come up with.
Having major people in his administration out of commission for months on end (Secretary of Defense, Secretary of Transportation) without anyone even noticing is a 'management' problem.
Disagree. Having major people out of
Re: In other news... (Score:2)
I have to say, this is quality trolling.
Re: (Score:2)
WTF is this? Some AI generated garbage designed to make Trump supporters look extra bad?? Cuz I can't see anyone being this tin eared.
Re: (Score:2)
Secretary of Defense remains in ICU at Walter Reed
They found him/her/it/they?
That's good. Or something.
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
I love how trumptards are running around defending greedy megacorps while dark brandon is putting rules in place to help workers.
Re: (Score:2)
whereas passing anti-contractor laws removes and/or limits the choice for those who'd rather be contractors.
No, it doesn't. If Uber and Lyft were forced to shut down, people who wanted to be their own independents contractors running their own real taxi company would have access to a bigger slice of the pie and make better livings as independents contractors.
It might be a little more difficult for someone who wants to deliver food or groceries to establish relationships with various local restaurants and grocery stores as an individual, as delivery jobs typically fell under more traditional forms of employment.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Are you THAT delusional that you don't know the hurdles to forming a real taxi company? Or even getting a taxi?
I don't know whether the OP was clueless or not, but it certainly is possible to create a company that has drivers who are unlicensed taxi drivers just like Uber -- but who really are independent contractors. There's a rideshare company called "Empower" that does.
Empower's business model probably would not be affected by the proposed law. (Oh, they might have to go to court to argue it.) Because unlike Uber they really do have an independent contractor relationship with "their" drivers. The drivers set thei
Re: (Score:3)
American adults have a right to sell their time and skills as they want as long as no one is holding a preverbal gun to the worker's head.
We outlawed some contractual terms that border on slavery, and we have many, many provisions that companies must abide by with respect to employing people, and how they work them. Not to mention details like taxation. So it's certainly nothing like an absolute right within our system. We started out the Absolute way as a baseline, and it didn't go very well.
What this proposed law seems to be about is clarifying the existing regime where individual workers are classified as employees (with lots of rules) or