Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
The Courts Google

Google's App Store Ruled an Illegal Monopoly, as a Jury Sides With Epic Games (wired.com) 103

A jury in San Francisco unanimously found (PDF) that Google violated California and federal antitrust laws through deals that stifled competition for its mobile app store. "The verdict delivers the first significant US courtroom loss for big tech in the years-long campaign by rivals, regulators, and prosecutors to tame the power of internet gatekeepers," reports Wired. From the report: The lawsuit next moves to a remedies phase, meaning a judge as soon as the coming weeks will hear arguments about and decide whether to order changes to Google's business practices. Users of devices powered by Google's Android operating system could find more app options to choose from, at lower prices, if Google is forced to allow downloads of rival app stores from Play or share a greater portion of sales with developers selling digital items inside their apps.

The ruling came in a case first filed in 2020 by Epic Games, known for its blockbuster game Fortnite and tools for developers, and argued before a jury since early November. The jury of nine -- a 10th juror dropped out early in the trial -- deliberated for three hours before reaching its verdict. They faced 11 questions such as defining product and geographic markets and whether Google engaged in anticompetitive conduct in those areas. Epic had accused Google of restricting smartphone makers, wireless carriers, and app developers from providing any competition to the Play store, which accounts for over 95 percent of all downloads onto Android phones in the US. Google had denied any wrongdoing, saying that its sole aim was to provide a safe and attractive experience to users, especially as it faced competition from Apple, its iPhone, and its App Store.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Google's App Store Ruled an Illegal Monopoly, as a Jury Sides With Epic Games

Comments Filter:
  • by MDMurphy ( 208495 ) on Monday December 11, 2023 @10:19PM (#64075085)
    How can Google's store be found to be a monopoly, with multiple app stores out there that are default for devices made by those companies and optional for Google's devices? How many alternate app stores are there for iPhones?
    • I don't think the law says anything about "as long as your main competitor is even worse than you!"

      Apple and Google are a duopoly in the smartphone market. No one else has been able to break in, despite throwing tons of money at it. They were even able to crowd out Microsoft, with its much superior mobile OS (not referring to CE!). They refused to let Microsoft have a deal to put Google Search, GMail, and Google Maps, a critical set of apps, even if Microsoft offered to pay for it.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Did Microsoft even want Google apps? They seem to prefer their own Bing search, Live Mail, and Bing Maps.

        • Did Microsoft even want Google apps? They seem to prefer their own Bing search, Live Mail, and Bing Maps.

          Which would be enough if all they wanted to do was to sell phones to themselves but if they want to sell to the public then saying "well we've got Bing" is hardly a selling point.

        • Oh, hell yes, they wanted it. It's one thing to push your own services, another to kill another pushing it. Google kept changing APIs when third party devs tried to create apps to replace the Google apps.

      • >Apple and Google are a duopoly in the smartphone market.

        So fucking what? It's no different than Windows and MacOS on PC.

        You aren't stuck with only the Google app store, as android lets you install anything you want through .apks unlike with Apple. Just ask the old hosts file dude that used to spam in here.

        It also isn't "too hard" to install a .apk. No worse than installing a .exe on windows, or a .dmg on MacOS. You don't HAVE to use the app store in Windows, MacOS, or Android. There are several installa
        • It doesn't matter for anti trust law that you can install another store, the big thing is that they by including their own store by default is using their monopoly in smart phones to also give them a benefit when it comes to app stores. The same with Microsoft back in the day, you where free to install any alternative browser you liked, MS never prohibited that, the issue was that IE was pre-installed and thus MS used their monopoly in the PC market to gain benefits in the browser market.
          • OK that's silly to make that parallel to having a preinstalled browser, something any OS should and does have.

            "Back in the day," (as today) there was no barrier to getting another browser and installing it. There was no exclusive "store" you had to pay Microsoft a high fee to get into. Windows has never been a walled garden like that.

            I find it hilarious, however, that Gabe Newell constantly pretends otherwise, however, as he runs his own game distribution system with high fees that's become a pretty effec

            • No it is not silly, it is just you that don't understand anti trust law and pretend that 1995 was like 2023. Back in 1995 a web browser was a separate product with a separate market (just 14% of adults had Internet access in 1995 in the US), and it was here that MS used their monopoly in the operating system market to get benefits in the browser market. That is why MS was hit by anti trust laws both in the US and in the EU (but then Bush Jr was elected president in the US and the US case was closed).
              • It was a separate product in 1995 because the internet was brand freaking new and OS companies back then had not yet built any yet, not because they weren't an inherent part of any computing device. Ever since, all OSes have come with a browser.

                The case was doomed because it was a ridiculous basis for a suit, brought by Microsoft's sour grapes competitors. They had no lobbying arm in Washington at the time, but they learned they needed one!

                • So finally you agree that 1995 was a different time. The case wasn't doomed until Bush Jr made a political decision to drop it entirely, over here in Europe where we had no Bush Jr the case went as it should and MS was forced to choose between removing IE or allow users to choose alternative browsers upon install of Windows. MS was clearly in the wrong back then.
                  • Well there's some cherry picking! You with that, buddy! :D

                    • cherry picking how? I only described to you how anti trust works by using the IE situation of 1995 as an example since everyone knows about that one. Trying to make MS installing IE equal to Google having a play store was only something you did.
              • I at least understand that the only "Android" that google has full control over, other than the superficial name, is on Pixel phones.

                Everything else is in house custom OEM built from AOSP sources and custom kernel modules. It's right in the name, Android OPEN SOURCE Project. If they want to include the Play Store they can, if they want to install 50 different stores they can as well. Or they can be like Amazon.

                Amazon seems to be content not including the Google play store, instead having their own.
                • And Amazon have a monopoly in the smart phone market? AFAIK if you want to use any of the closed parts of android then you must install the play store.
        • So on Android, because they control the platform within a market they've turned into a tight duopoly, one of these would need to be true, IMO, for it not to be monopolistic behavior:

          1) app store is not restricted other than for security reasons, only tiny fees at most
          2) the "normal" way of getting apps is not via a Store you preinstall.
          3) Google does not have an excessively high market share, or it's easy for other platforms to break in to mobile. iOS+Android created a mobile duopoly so tight they were abl

    • by xgerrit ( 2879313 ) on Monday December 11, 2023 @11:33PM (#64075207)
      If you read more about the Sherman Anti-trust Act, a company doesn't have to own an entire market to be a monopoly. And I think more importantly in the Google case (although I can't wait for anti-trust experts to weigh in), the fact that Google was making secret deals to kill any possible competition and their internal conversations were literally saying that, makes it hard to argue they weren't acting in an anti-competitive way.
      • by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @01:30AM (#64075343) Homepage Journal

        If you read more about the Sherman Anti-trust Act, a company doesn't have to own an entire market to be a monopoly. And I think more importantly in the Google case (although I can't wait for anti-trust experts to weigh in), the fact that Google was making secret deals to kill any possible competition and their internal conversations were literally saying that, makes it hard to argue they weren't acting in an anti-competitive way.

        There's something baffling about the courts finding that Apple, whose OS is not licensed to anyone else and whose hardware deliberately and explicitly makes other app stores impossible, is not violating federal antitrust law while Google, whose OS is freely licensed to other hardware vendors and whose hardware explicitly allows side-loading of other app stores, somehow is in violation.

        Paying someone for exclusivity is generally not an antitrust violation, except when that exclusivity prevents a competing store from even being able to exist. And the existence and success of Samsung's app store and Amazon's app store blow that argument out of the water. So IMO, by any reasonable standard, the courts got this one wrong.

        Meanwhile, tying limitations, which prevent customers from buying things elsewhere, generally are an antitrust violation when the company doing the tying has significant market power, so the courts also got the Apple case wrong.

        Basically, these cases upended decades of antitrust laws in ways that seem, at least on the surface, nonsensical, and the deeper I dig into at least the Apple ruling, the more confused I become. I have not yet read this decision, but unless there's something rather large that I'm missing, I'm left shaking my head.

        • by Heir Of The Mess ( 939658 ) on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @02:44AM (#64075433)
          Apple's case was by judge, Google's case was by jury. I guess judges and juries can have wildly different views on cases.
          • I wonder which mobile phone that judge uses.
          • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

            Apple's case was by judge, Google's case was by jury. I guess judges and juries can have wildly different views on cases.

            Of course. A judge knows the law and manages their courtroom. Theatrics don't generally go over well - they go after facts.

            Juries are ordinary people - you can say ordinary people who couldn't get themselves excused - and are easily swayed because everyone brings their own experiences, biases and other things into the picture. They watch TV shows like CSI and expect forensic evidence to b

        • by slack_justyb ( 862874 ) on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @02:58AM (#64075449)

          There's something baffling about the courts finding that Apple, whose OS is not licensed to anyone else and whose hardware deliberately and explicitly makes other app stores impossible, is not violating federal antitrust law while Google, whose OS is freely licensed to other hardware vendors and whose hardware explicitly allows side-loading of other app stores, somehow is in violation.

          Well considering the court cases, you've already stated the reason. Google's OS is freely licensed and with it comes some expectation about what that "free" means. You cannot put a sign out saying "free hamburger" and then hand people a bill for the plate that the hamburger was served on. That's deceit. You cannot indicate that you've built an all-purpose tool for the public and then slide stuff into it to make everyone else's stuff look bad and then be like "OH! Your stuff running crappy? Oh my, I guess you ought to sign up with our Google stuff instead of that Samsung stuff." You're basically making it look like it is Samsungs fault which is an abuse of position.

          Apple's thing. Well they're the only one that can do it. There's no hush-hush about what Apple is after.

          Paying someone for exclusivity is generally not an antitrust violation, except when that exclusivity prevents a competing store from even being able to exist

          It's a bit deeper than that, but that's generally correct. Exclusive agreements are protected by Congress. However, exclusive agreements cannot be enforced by modifying a tool generally accepted by the public as utility. I get what you're focusing on, which is the end product, but the bigger focus here is the means by which that's done. There's nothing wrong with indicating "Google has partnered with Samsung to blah blah blah..." but when there's a partnership that basically makes a tool that everyone uses crap except for those who agreed to the partnership AND that's never disclosed to those who consider it utility. It's that deceitfulness that's the issue. The end result notwithstanding.

          Basically, these cases upended decades of antitrust laws in ways that seem, at least on the surface, nonsensical

          Because it's not consumer facing aspect that's being gauged in a lot of these. It's how the company acted and if they were clear and forthright in their goals to the public and the industry. Apple makes no secret about their unwillingness to cooperate with others, they explicitly indicate "we don't interoperate with others". You walk into Apple products knowing full well what you are walking into. That's on the up and up. Google has attempted to indicate "Oh Android runs on everything" and at the same time quietly hobbles anyone who doesn't do a backroom deal with them. That's lying.

          And I have an Apple iPhone now and I hate the fucking thing. I really dislike how stupid they've tightly integrated into all their shit and how hostile they are with working with other device types. But when I had to bring my Samsung in for water damage and the iPhone 12 mini was all I could trade a waterlogged phone for, I knew what I was getting into. I knew that it was going to be hostile to everything I owned. That in essence is the difference.

          • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

            There's something baffling about the courts finding that Apple, whose OS is not licensed to anyone else and whose hardware deliberately and explicitly makes other app stores impossible, is not violating federal antitrust law while Google, whose OS is freely licensed to other hardware vendors and whose hardware explicitly allows side-loading of other app stores, somehow is in violation.

            Well considering the court cases, you've already stated the reason. Google's OS is freely licensed and with it comes some expectation about what that "free" means.

            Other articles I've read imply that Google gave other companies incentives in exchange for not building their own store, not that "free" came with strings attached. That isn't remotely the same thing. The only place I see phrases like "restricting... from providing any competition" is here. I'd be curious what the summary authors meant by that, and whether they know about something that I haven't seen yet.

            And unfortunately, the PDF link above is to the jury instructions, not to the decision, so we don't

        • by mjwx ( 966435 )

          If you read more about the Sherman Anti-trust Act, a company doesn't have to own an entire market to be a monopoly. And I think more importantly in the Google case (although I can't wait for anti-trust experts to weigh in), the fact that Google was making secret deals to kill any possible competition and their internal conversations were literally saying that, makes it hard to argue they weren't acting in an anti-competitive way.

          There's something baffling about the courts finding that Apple, whose OS is not licensed to anyone else and whose hardware deliberately and explicitly makes other app stores impossible, is not violating federal antitrust law while Google, whose OS is freely licensed to other hardware vendors and whose hardware explicitly allows side-loading of other app stores, somehow is in violation.

          This, and I'm not arguing that Google wasn't engaged in anti-competitive activities, quite the contrary they, by all reports were and should be smacked down for it.

          But the law seems to be applied so inconsistently, with Apple getting away with murder in comparison to Google's sweetheart deals, even Epic is trying the same thing but just aren't being successful. It all seems to come down to how sympathetic the judge is.

        • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @01:54PM (#64076411)

          There's something baffling about the courts finding that Apple, whose OS is not licensed to anyone else and whose hardware deliberately and explicitly makes other app stores impossible, is not violating federal antitrust law while Google, whose OS is freely licensed to other hardware vendors and whose hardware explicitly allows side-loading of other app stores, somehow is in violation.

          No there's not because the ruling against Google had nothing to do with whether or not an alternative store can be loaded. Here's the thing. You're allowed to be a monopoly. You're allowed to control your own product. What you're not allowed to do is "monopolize" i.e. abuse your market power.

          In all the rulings so far across the world Apple has been found in the clear because they produce an iPhone and load a specific app store on it. In all the rulings across the world so far Google has been found in violation because they *don't* produce a Samsung Galaxy or an LG, or an Oppo, or whatever other 3rd party makes a phone, yet they write contracts with these companies enforcing a requirement for their app store to be on it.

          Apple restricts only the capability of their own devices. - Legal
          Google restricts 3rd party commerce contractually to maintain market dominance. - Not Legal.

          Your issue is a fundamental lack of understanding of what each company is in trouble for. Neither is in trouble because their app store is popular, it's entirely what they do with it and more importantly *who* they do it to that is at issue.

        • The difference is the source of the decision: a judge who understands and applies the law, or a jury of 8 imbeciles that couldn't (or didn't want to) get out of jury duty.

          The kicker: both decisions are wrong, so neither situation can be pointed to as being the better one.

      • If you read more about the Sherman Anti-trust Act, a company doesn't have to own an entire market to be a monopoly.

        If you read more about the Sherman Anti-trust Act you'll find it has nothing to do with being a monopoly. The actual anti-trust law is about attempting to monopolize (the verb, not the noun) commerce, i.e. abusing your market power to remain dominant. You don't need to be a monopoly to fall afoul of the law, and simply being a monopoly isn't illegal either.

    • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Monday December 11, 2023 @11:45PM (#64075233)

      Google want found to be a monopoly. Monopolies aren't illegal. They were found to violate antitrust law with contacts they made with 3rd parties. A users ability to install an alternate store is not relevant in these cases.

    • You have to root your phone to allow F-Droid to do security updates for you.

      Google won't permit them the permission needed. Which cuts to the heart of the matter.

      • by swillden ( 191260 ) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @01:49PM (#64076397) Journal

        You have to root your phone to allow F-Droid to do security updates for you.

        Google won't permit them the permission needed. Which cuts to the heart of the matter.

        Can you elaborate? F-droid absolutely can push updates (security or otherwise) to apps that were installed by F-droid, and the app can, and does, update itself.

        I'm not sure what sort of "security updates" you're referring to, or what permission would be required for it.

    • Others have responded to your points about the definition of a monopoly and anti-trust law.

      You protest that "other app stores are available on Android."

      Maybe so, but only for certain segments of the Android marketplace. I have a Moto phone. I can't use the Samsung app store, or the Amazon app store, neither of those will work on my phone, even if I wanted them. So those aren't really "choices" for me.

      • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        Others have responded to your points about the definition of a monopoly and anti-trust law.

        You protest that "other app stores are available on Android."

        Maybe so, but only for certain segments of the Android marketplace. I have a Moto phone. I can't use the Samsung app store, or the Amazon app store, neither of those will work on my phone, even if I wanted them. So those aren't really "choices" for me.

        Ah, but that is entirely Samsung's choice and Amazon's choice. They would rather require you to buy hardware to gain access to their store than offer that app store freely for you to run on their competitors' devices. Blaming Google for that is nonsensical. The only way I can think of that Google could have prevented them from doing things that way would have been to mandate that all Android devices have the Play store, and that all other app stores be distributed through the Play store, and then they'd

        • Yes, Samsung and Amazon have chosen to restrict their app stores. Epic, on the other hand, doesn't have the option to place their app store on Samsung, Apple, Moto, or any other devices.

    • How can Google's store be found to be a monopoly

      Because the question wasn't was Google a monopoly. Google abused it's position which is also under federal antitrust laws.

      Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other person or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, shall be deemed guilty of a felony

      15 USC 2. As that language is broad one applies the further standard of "Rule of Reason" 221 US 1 (1910)

      companies constitute a combination in restraint of interstate commerce and that they have attempted to monopolize. . .

      The "Rule of Reason" establishes that: One, there are Congressionally promulgated means by which a company may reduce competition that only in the instance of being a single provider would not fall under abuses practices. Two, that outside those things, the intent of the actions of

  • What is someone wants to provide microtransactions inside Epic games, sell virtual objects, skins, etc. All they need to do is show Epic has a monopoly in "relevant market" (which would be virtual goods in Epic games, just like apps on Google devices) and that microtransactions by one provider offer similar benefit as another, as do skin designs, etc. Google could demand the ability to sell within Epic games now, for zero fees, no?
    • Surely "relevant market" doesn't mean the game they own....

      • by Xenx ( 2211586 )
        And Google owns Android, so where would you say the line needs to be drawn? I'm not taking a side in the bigger argument, but their point is valid. It may not be an exact comparison, but there is at least logical merit to what they said.
        • I'm not a lawyer, but a single game, no matter how big it is, seems much too small to regulate.

        • Your argument relies on the obviously incorrect assumption that this policy should apply to every piece of software ever, drawing an equals sign between a video game and a fucking operating system.

          No reasonable person would agree with that assumption. Games are an application, operating systems are a hardware and software management layer allowing applications.

          • by Xenx ( 2211586 )
            Your argument relies upon the incorrect assumption that it couldn't apply to other software markets just the same. In no way am I saying it should/shouldn't apply to a game, merely that their offhanded comment about ownership of the game as a defense was lacking.
      • Why not? Android is the "game" Google owns which is served by their store, just like Epic games are served by Epic store. Sure, Google's game is more versatile and offers a wider range of virtual goods, but idea is the same - selling add-ons for the software someone else owns.
        • Android is an entire OS. No matter how big one game is, it's a few orders of magnitude smaller than that.

  • by bubblyceiling ( 7940768 ) on Monday December 11, 2023 @11:04PM (#64075159)
    This should apply to them too, I assume
    • by Dixie_Flatline ( 5077 ) <vincent.jan.gohNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday December 11, 2023 @11:09PM (#64075171) Homepage

      Epic already lost its suit against Apple months ago.

      • Epic already lost its suit against Apple months ago.

        I'm not an expert, but doesn't it seem like the legal results are backwards (assuming different results for the cases are legitimate at all)?

        Unless I'm mistaken, it is officially allowed and fairly straightforward for a user to install anything on Android without going through Google, but IOS only allows that if you (as a user) sign up as a developer (including a fee, I think). Doesn't that mean Apple is a worse/stronger monopoly than Google?

        • You're not mistaken about anything other than what the car or rulings are about. Antitrust behaviour doesn't care if an alternative is possible, it consists market per and how that power is used. Google's issue here is they have different deals with this potatoes too bolster their store and prevent competition.

          If you create your phone with your app store that's okay.
          If you make a deal with other people to force your app store through with specific exclusions or even financial incentives to reduce competitio

          • I think you're placing too much faith in the objectivity of the average jury. Apple obviously just made a more compelling case as to why it's perfectly fine that they lock you out of your own hardware. Hell, every time there's an article about Apple possibly being forced to dial back some of their anti-competitive practices, Apple fanboys start coming out of the woodwork to explain how they actually prefer being locked in Apple's garden.

            If you've got enough kool aid drinkers on the jury, Apple can get away

            • Apple fanboys start coming out of the woodwork to explain how they actually prefer being locked in Apple's garden.

              This is the part I don't understand. You acknowledge that a large number of Apple customers prefer this model, but for some reason because they're "fanboys" they shouldn't be able to purchase the devices they want. No, Android customer preferences should shape what Apple users are able to buy. How does that make sense?

              I think Harley Davidson motorcycles are stupid as hell and I can't wrap my head around why someone would want one, but that doesn't mean I think the government should mandate that all motorcyc

              • by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @01:53AM (#64075371) Homepage Journal

                Apple fanboys start coming out of the woodwork to explain how they actually prefer being locked in Apple's garden.

                This is the part I don't understand. You acknowledge that a large number of Apple customers prefer this model,

                No, a small number of vocal Apple customers prefer this model. A decent number of Apple customers disagree, and probably 95% haven't even thought about it one way or the other.

                The purpose of antitrust law is to protect customers from price inflation and other abuses arising out of one company having too much market power. Apple's App Store model causes price inflation because of the way it ties one thing (in-app purchase payment systems) to multiple other things (purchases of games on their store and purchases of hardware). That makes its policies almost per se illegal restraint of trade. The lack of availability of alternative app stores is pretty much the final nail in that coffin.

                And the bulk of the customers who prefer this model do so because they are blindly trusting Apple's claims that things would be way worse if they weren't the sole arbiter of what can run on the platform. The reality is that the sky wouldn't fall if they were forced to open up the platform, and users would quickly see that, after which almost nobody would defend their previous practices anymore other than perhaps people who have a lot of Apple stock and not much humanity.

                but for some reason because they're "fanboys" they shouldn't be able to purchase the devices they want.

                This does not follow. Nobody is preventing them from purchasing the devices that they want. They can keep their phones locked to "Apple only" mode. What they don't have is the right to force everyone else to do so.

                No, Android customer preferences should shape what Apple users are able to buy. How does that make sense?

                You're wrongly assuming that the people complaining about Apple's policies are all Android users. I've been an iPhone user since the first model. I've also felt that both their App Store in-app purchasing rules and their lack of side-loading were harmful to consumers since the very first day of the App Store. Actually, to be pedantic, now that I think about it, I've thought that the lack of side-loading was anti-consumer since about a year *before* the App Store existed. :-)

                What you're saying is that your preferences should be mandated, thus preventing anyone else from using hardware that they purchased in the manner of their choosing. How does that make any sense?

                • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

                  Those who disagree don't have to be Apple customers, there are plenty of other options out there.
                  If they are still Apple customers despite disagreeing with their model, then it means that they disagree with some aspects of the other options more.

                  • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

                    If they are still Apple customers despite disagreeing with their model, then it means that they disagree with some aspects of the other options more.

                    Disagree is way too strong a term. I prefer the way iOS works, for the most part, though there are aspects of Android that are better. I dislike the "everything must come from our store" rules, but not enough to switch operating systems over it. After all, it's just a phone, so the availability of apps isn't really that important to me compared with being able to quickly do whatever I need to do. I use my Mac way more than I use my phone, and that is at least in part because the lack of an App Store loc

                  • Oh, so someone on Android has zero other recourse than using Android, but someone on iOS has options and they chose iOS?

                    Did you hit your head recently by any chance?
              • This is the part I don't understand. You acknowledge that a large number of Apple customers prefer this model, but for some reason because they're "fanboys" they shouldn't be able to purchase the devices they want.

                The part you're missing is that the smartphone market is a duopoly and letting Apple have their locked down ecosystem leaves Google as the sole alternative, effectively granting Google a monopoly over the slightly-less-locked-down mobile OS market. That's not really an ideal situation. The fact that some of Apple's customer base prefers it this way still doesn't make it right.

            • Apple obviously just made a more compelling case as to why it's perfectly fine that they lock you out of your own hardware.

              Of course they did. There's nothing illegal about locking a user out of their hardware.

              People have this fantasy about what anti-trust laws are about. They view their ideal world as full ownership and full freedom and anytime they don't get it they shout "antitrust". Unfortunately that's not how it works. Actual abuse of market power is a very specific thing. Apple didn't just win because they argued better to a specific jury, they've played out this arguments many times in many jurisdictions. It's not illeg

        • I'm not arguing the merits of the case, merely the end result. All I wanted to do was point out how this has no bearing on the Apple case since it was decided. I admit after the Apple case I was not expecting Google to lose, but here we are.

      • It's currently under appeal, and if you think Epic's lawyers aren't going to cherry-pick from this win in their arguments for that case, you're crazy.

      • Apparently, Google not only ditched "do not do evil" but also "do not hire bad lawyers" credo.

    • The AppStore’s for PlayStation, Nintendo, and Xbox are FAR more restrictive. This jury trial verdict in California likely won’t do much to all the lawsuits people have been filing against Apple. Since this lawsuit is directly about being allowed to sell video games and how Google was paying for exclusive games(“Google Project Hug”) this IS fodder for new lawsuits against consoles.
  • makes no sense (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nicubunu ( 242346 ) on Tuesday December 12, 2023 @02:37AM (#64075427) Homepage

    It make no sense: Google App store is found to be a monopoly when on Android there are a lot of alternate app stores and you can even sideload APKs, but at the same time Apple App Store is fount NOT to be a monopoly, when that is a real monopoly, with no 3rd party alternatives. Exactly the opposite. This judiciary system is either profoundly incompetent or totally corrupt.

    • Well it won't make sense if you fundamentally don't understand what the case was.

      It make no sense: Google App store is found to be a monopoly

      They weren't "found to be a monopoly". They were found to be abusing their dominant position to stifle competition.
      A jury in San Francisco unanimously found (PDF) that Google violated California and federal antitrust laws through deals that stifled competition for its mobile app store.

      • So the punchline is that since competition is not possible, it hasn't been stifled.

        • by drhamad ( 868567 )
          No. Google claims competition IS possible. But then was doing underhanded things to make sure it didn't happen.
    • Monopolies aren't illegal. Abuse of market power is. The Play Store is loaded on every Android device along with contractual agreements with device makers that have been over time to be repeatedly found to be anti-competitive. The fact you as the user can load something else is irrelevant. On the other hand Apple isn't making contractual agreements with anyone, they are simply loading their store on their device.

      I don't like it. It's a walled garden. It actively locks down the experience. But it is *not* in

      • Apple isn't just loading their store on their device. They are also blocking the loading of any other store, or any app that doesn't come from their store.
  • F-Droid, Aurora Store, Aptoide, ApkPure, ApkMirror, Mobilism even ( ÍÂ ÍoeÊ- ÍÂ) or sideloading in general since the beginning of time... what's stopping you from using them? Like come on, I could keep going on forever.
  • As far as I have experienced, all companies have a small monopoly in their area (market segment, geographical area, a specific movie/book etc.). If they don't, they can't make a profit! A way to measure how powerful that monopoly is, is to ask the investors: If they believe the monopoly is crucial for the society, they will throw in a lot of money to earn from it. Therefore there is a direct connection between high valuable companies and monopolies. Therefore all the most valuable companies have to be broke
  • This lawsuit directly calls out Google’s “Project Hug” where they paid for exclusive games for Android. With Microsoft already in the crosshairs for trying to get exclusives after buying Activision and Sony being THE console with non-first-party exclusives I can’t see how this won’t affect consoles.
  • It took the jury four hours only because they wanted to get the free sandwiches.

  • Google, which allows competing app stores to exist and allows sideloading, is an illegal monopoly? And Apple, which doesn't allow either of those things and therefore has a true monopoly on iOS app sales, is not?? How can those two verdicts possibly make sense?

"It's the best thing since professional golfers on 'ludes." -- Rick Obidiah

Working...