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Crime AI

Startup Suggests Fighting Porch Piracy with AI-Enhanced Shipment Insurance (fastcompany.com) 148

Posted by EditorDavid from the warring-with-warranties dept.
Fast Company published some thoughts about porch piracy from Rohan Shah, the cofounder of the shipment-insurance platform Extend: In New York City, where as many as 90,000 packages are stolen every day, the Department of Transportation has launched a pilot program, LockerNYC, in which consumers can collect their online purchases at various storefront or sidewalk locations. Amazon Locker has 900 locations across the U.S. and recently launched Amazon Key, allowing consumers to throw privacy to the wind and give delivery persons access to their homes and cars. Amazon also has pick up kiosks at Whole Foods and Kohl's and The U.S. Postal Service has set up after-hours pick-up locations in many states.

All of that said, for consumers who simply wanted convenient, free two-day shipping, the time spent driving and waiting in line for a package doesn't seem like the best fix, nor a differentiated digital experience. AI to the rescue... This year, the fastest path to progress is simply reinventing shipping protection for the digital era and AI can do that at scale, for pennies on the dollar... My company, Extend, for example, leverages AI to process 98% of shipping claims in 90 seconds, with a replacement product shipped to the customer the same day... The new approach is a type of no-fault insurance, which the consumer purchases at checkout for around 2% of the purchase price. For a $200 pair of shoes, the cost to protect against shipping issues would be just $4.
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Startup Suggests Fighting Porch Piracy with AI-Enhanced Shipment Insurance More

Startup Suggests Fighting Porch Piracy with AI-Enhanced Shipment Insurance

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  • LOL, right. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 27, 2023 @08:41AM (#64034519)

    My company, Extend, for example, leverages AI to process 98% of shipping claims in 90 seconds, with a replacement product shipped to the customer the same day... The new approach is a type of no-fault insurance, which the consumer purchases at checkout for around 2% of the purchase price. For a $200 pair of shoes, the cost to protect against shipping issues would be just $4.

    No, Mr. Shah, your company leverages buzzword bullshit. And in a year or so, your company will no longer exist, but you will have made off with a few million dollars in the process, so good for you, I guess.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by vlad30 ( 44644 )
      Actually Insurance companies thrive on your fear that 2% will calm your fear and make them rich they have already done the numbers and 2% will make a profit.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by vlad30 ( 44644 )
        I should add will high risk areas/customers get higher premiums. Will they lower the premium if you have a secure drop box like this example https://www.amazon.com.au/Grov... [amazon.com.au] and guaranteed if they start losing the premium will rise
    • I tend to agree with you. There are much better solutions to porch piracy. The easiest one is, of course, a package delivery box that locks. We're seeing this already. Amazon delivery lockers and local places. The post office has locking delivery boxes wherever mailboxes are centralized. Amazon wants access to your Ring doorbell/lock to get into your house (which has it's drawbacks but does prevent porch piracy). But a delivery locker at your house is the simplest and easiest solution for most.

    • Re:LOL, right. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Monday November 27, 2023 @10:52AM (#64034915) Homepage Journal

      I don't understand how they can get the buyer to pay for the insurance. If the item doesn't arrive, that's not the buyer's problem. The seller needs to ensure it gets there, and if it is stolen or lost they will have to refund or reship.

      Is this some American thing where somehow big businesses have managed to transfer the liability onto the little guy?

      • I don't understand how they can get the buyer to pay for the insurance. If the item doesn't arrive, that's not the buyer's problem. The seller needs to ensure it gets there, and if it is stolen or lost they will have to refund or reship.

        In the end it is always the buyer who pays. Prices will go up by the insurance premium.

        The whole concept has a logical flaw, though. It assumes that the second parcel will be delivered 100% of the time. But guess what the likelihood of theft will be when the first package got stolen already. At the same address. To the same recipient.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Kisai ( 213879 )

      Nah, the problem is Amazon, Fedex, UPS, USPS, DHL etc

      None of them drop packages off at my address. I have to go on a god damned hike to a convenience store a half hour away every time, despite the UPS Store being down the block from me.

      The low-tech route, is include an Apple AirTag in all parcels over $100

      The high-tech route, is to develop a reusable parcel box made of steel that has an integrated GPS/LTE modem (basically a SOC that detects motion, temperatures, moisture, etc) that only the the recipient ca

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by eth1 ( 94901 )

        The low-tech route, is include an Apple AirTag in all parcels over $100

        No, the low-tech route is for homes and apartments to incorporate package lockers which are normally left open, but, once closed, can only be opened via a key.

    • Insurance against crimes does little to prevent crimes. If anything, it creates more criminality through lack of effective action against it or to prevent it. You want less crime, find ways to reduce opportunities to commit them. But that means actually solving problems & doing something.

  • How about we start (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MeNeXT ( 200840 ) on Monday November 27, 2023 @08:45AM (#64034523)

    with the delivery driver ringing the door bell. They don't even have to wait. Just ring and go.

    • Wouldn't help.

      Drivers have been caught phoning their friends to pickup the packages. I can't find it now but one ring doorbell video showed the driver high fiving the guy who stole the package, and it's pretty obviously not the owner coming home. (It was from when the PS5 was in high demand and short supply).

    • Where do you find drivers who have the courtesy to ring? None of the drivers who deliver here in my semi-rural area will bother with a ring, even though the button is right there beside where they drop the package.

    • Re:How about we start (Score:4, Informative)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Monday November 27, 2023 @10:55AM (#64034935) Homepage Journal

      A lot of delivery drivers won't ring a doorbell, because smart doorbells have ruined them.

      If they ring a smart doorbell, it can take a good 30 seconds for the owner to get the notification and respond. And then the owner wants them to go and knock on the neighbour's doors, looking for someone who is in to take the package. Or wants them to go find some purposefully hidden place to lave it.

      All that time the clock is ticking, with the delivery company pressuring them to get to the next stop. So they just don't ring.

      Even knocking is risky now, because Ring has implemented knock detection.

      • A lot of delivery drivers won't ring a doorbell, because smart doorbells have ruined them.

        If they ring a smart doorbell, it can take a good 30 seconds for the owner to get the notification and respond.

        Horseshit. Stop excusing bad behaviour. Even smart doorbells ring locally virtually instantly only giving people who aren't home or are out of earshot a notification a few seconds later.

        And so what? That is still not an excuse for not ringing the bell. Still better that the owner gets informed in 30 seconds that there's a parcel on their door than not at all. There's literally no downside to them ringing vs not coming in the first place if their intention is to just drop the parcel anyway.

        Stop excusing bad

  • "My company"... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Monday November 27, 2023 @08:51AM (#64034535)

    At this point the slasvertisment becomes obvious and all claims made are not credible.

  • Change the law and the problem is gone (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday November 27, 2023 @09:10AM (#64034577)

    There is no "porch piracy" in my country. Why? Because delivery services are required to show that they handed the shipment to you. No signature, no delivery. You put it on my doorstep, I enjoy my free goods, provided someone else doesn't do that first.

    • Re:Change the law and the problem is gone (Score:5, Insightful)

      by TwistedGreen ( 80055 ) on Monday November 27, 2023 @09:21AM (#64034595)

      Well that sounds like a pain in the ass. What country is that?

      • Re:Change the law and the problem is gone (Score:5, Insightful)

        by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Monday November 27, 2023 @09:41AM (#64034633)

        I love how often people say “in my country” but don’t ever say which country. How does that work when a good portion of the population isn’t home during the day? I used to have all my stuff delivered at work until one dickhead ruined it.

        • How does that work when a good portion of the population isn’t home during the day?

          They usually deliver to a neighbour. A good portion of the population includes a significant number of housewives, retirees, schoolkids, etc. There's virtually never a time where a parcel isn't deliverable within a 10 second walk of the front door.

      • Sounds like a pain in the ass for whom?
        Here I am, living in (one of the) arsehole(s) of the EU, and ALL deliveries are being performed in-person. Delivery person comes to my house, gives me a call, I come out, provide a 4-digit PIN I received via SMS, they enter the PIN in their device, hand me the parcel, off they go. If they don't find you, they come back next day.
        In dense urban areas, there are delivery lockers with many various sized boxes, the customer can choose for the parcel to be delivered there, t

        • More generally, I don't understand how the USA is struggling to find a solution to porch piracy, given most if not all civilized countries had been using such solutions for quite a few years.

          It's because of scope, basically. The USA is around half the population of Europe, all of it, and about the same size geographically.

          In like 99% of the USA, porch piracy is not an issue. Because of roving professional gangs, the problematic areas vary, and you always have the local idiots. But I've never had a package stolen, despite having to hand packages to a neighbor (or get mine from her) because they deliver to the wrong house semi-regularly.

          But because of the sheer size and scope of the USA(seriou

          • Understood. Just one thing, extra driver time is minimal, a few seconds. It's all about having the proper delivery software solution implemented.

            • Uh, are you sure about that? Average time to answer the door around here is a couple minutes.

              It isn't a "few seconds" to hand the package to a resident unless you've called them like a minute earlier to be ready.

              In my case, even a text might not get a response. I get a fair number of them, my alert is a minimal sound, and I focus intensely when I'm doing stuff.

              • Ah, I understand now what you meant.
                I guess it's a cultural / education thing. Where you consider extra driver time a problem for the driver, we consider it normal and expected service (and so does the driver). This has two reasons:
                1. Respect for the product being delivered, as well as respect toward the customer;
                2. Competition: there are no less than 6 available delivery services if I want to send a parcel to someone else, and most companies offer at least two options you can pick from, most often at no co

        • Staying home all day waiting for a package is not a solution. In my country, people have jobs, comrade.

          In America, convenience is king, and if I can come home and have a pile of stuff waiting for me on my porch then that's awesome. If I'm concerned about it because it's valuable (and most stuff I order on Amazon is not), I can have it delivered to a nearby Amazon locker for free.

          Porch piracy isn't really all that prevalent, it just gets sensationalized my the media for some reason. I've never had a package

          • Staying home all day waiting for a package is not a solution. In my country, people have jobs, comrade.

            No, in your country, people have to go to the office because of rampant capitalist arseholes who make them :)

          • It depends on where you are. It's often highly localized. I live in a generally safe city and haven't had a package stolen, but the people who live within 2-3 blocks of the homeless shelter all say package theft is frequent (I'm 8 blocks away). They complain all the time, on the city subreddit, city facebook page, at public comments during council meetings even when it's unrelated to the current issue, etc.
            YMMV with Amazon too. I've ordered hundreds of things from them over years and never claimed a packag

      • IN SOVIET RUSSIA, package delivers YOU!

      • Re:Change the law and the problem is gone (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday November 27, 2023 @10:10AM (#64034727)

        Austria.

        If I'm not home, there are a couple of options. I can allow the delivery service to hand it to a neighbor, I can allow them to put it in a particular place like the garage or a sheltered spot (of course, if it gets stolen from there, it's on me), or I can opt to have them take it back to the Post Office where I can pick it up when I have time.

        It may not be the most convenient of things if you're not home, but it sure beats having to deal with stolen goods every other delivery.

        • Interesting, that's not usually an option here. In America people don't talk to their neighbors.

          I think a lot of it depends on the last-mile carrier for delivery fulfillment. They used to use the post office a lot, or UPS or FedEx, but now they mostly contract out to shady local delivery companies that get paid per package delivered and don't care if it's stolen. They aren't liable for stolen packages so there's no incentive to ensure safe delivery.

      • It's the same in Lithuania. Here we have three options for parcel delivery (mail goes into a mailbox that is locked):
        1. Picking it up at the post office (seems to be rather rare these days)
        2. Getting it delivered to the home, handed to someone at the address, that someone needs to tell a PIN that was sent eariler by SMS or email.
        3. Picking it up at a self-service parcel box - you need a PIN for that.
        There is a fourth option for businesses - if there's nobody at the office, the parcel can be left with the se

    • How's that really working out for you [slashdot.org]?

      • Better, now that everything gets delivered by our post service. I redirected every other delivery service to the PO and those problems are a thing of the past.

        • So your solution to all your delivery problems was to make it someone else's problem, the PO in this case. They will actually deliver something from another carrier to your porch or am I misinterpreting?

          • Yup. They offer a service they call "Alles Post" (everything Post) where you get a PO-Box address where you have the alternative delivery providers deliver to, then the post office delivers them as if the package was sent through them in the first place.

            Since my main gripes with the various alternative providers is with their delivery personnel who seem to park their pet elephants on my packages before trying to find out just how far they can toss them into my yard, provided they at least find my yard in th

          • So your solution to all your delivery problems was to make it someone else's problem, the PO in this case.

            The solution sounds like literally employing someone to do their job. What next you're shocked that the "solution" to the OP's hunger is that he goes to the supermarket making the supply of food the "someone else's problem", the farmer, delivery drivers and shops in this case?

    • So you have to stay home all day whenever you're expecting a delivery?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by guruevi ( 827432 )

        Pretty much, those countries also don't necessarily have Amazon-like services, so they're dependent on much higher cost of goods. And wait until a delivery driver understands that it doesn't matter whose signature is on it, you lose the package, the money and any recourse.

        • You think the delivery driver wouldn't get caught after it happened more than once? Over here it's basically unheard of (Netherlands). Yes, theft happens, but it's really easy to catch because those packages are tracked and traced very carefully. They do lose a few here and there (smart criminals can get away with theft as long as they stay under the radar) but if you don't get your package you just ask the party to send it again - and they do.

          This includes Amazon. They wouldn't be able to survive here othe

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by guruevi ( 827432 )

            I've had it happen plenty of times that the package wasn't delivered and it is a pain to get any kind of refund or replacement in Europe since the delivery supposedly happened. The packages are tracked and traced about as well as anywhere else in the world, DHL doesn't have any magic system specifically for the Netherlands, they use the same system, worse, they often hand it off to shady local couriers which don't have nearly the amount of tracking and tracing that the bigger entities do, and yes, they go b

            • I have to say it's possible, but I haven't had any package disappear yet. I also don't see a lot of courtcases about it. Then again, a smart criminal only steals small things and stays under the radar so that may not say much.

              Legally, in the EU, you are entitled to your money back if the product arrives damaged or doesn't arrive and the sender cannot prove you received it. But don't shop at the smaller "really cheap" sites, they are more often than not, a bunch of scammers that don't even bother sending ite

      • WFH has its advantages.

        If you're not home, you get a small yellow card in your mailbox that tells you that you can pick your package up at the post office at your leisure. They have a few walls of lockers there accessible 24/7 where you hold that paper to a QR scanner, enter your name, sign on the touchpad and the locker with your package opens. Pretty nifty.

        • By the way, here [youtube.com] is what that looks like.

          And if you live in a large apartment complex, it may pay to have a single unit of those in your complex so you don't even have to leave the house to claim your package. That would look like this [youtube.com] (video in German).

          • Those Austrian lockers look almost identical to DHL's Packstations in Germany. They've got well over 10,000 of them. Amazon's 900 Locker locations across the U.S pales in comparison.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by unrtst ( 777550 )

            Reading through these exchanging is pretty interesting, but all of the solutions are ones that already exist in the US as well; People just don't want to use those solutions cause we're lazy.
            Lots of people want a package delivered to their door same day or next day, and the company (eg. amazon) wants to ship more and more shit faster and faster to outdo any rivals. Hell, Amazon just outshipped UPS and FedEx here!

            The US has dropbox locations, and PO boxes, and signature required delivery options, and package

      • I get an SMS telling me when the driver is expected to arrive. I also usually get a tracking link that gives a time which is progressively more accurate as the time goes by. If I'm not home, they either deliver it to the neighbours and leave a standard note in my mailbox, or take it back to a central location nearby where I have to pick it up later, or I have to give them a new date/time and they retry.

        It's on me to pick a delivery day and/or time where I can accept the delivery. Not hard to do with working

        • I think the difference is that it's not unusual to receive packages in the US where it seems it's somewhat of an event/special occurrence in Europe. I probably receive several delivers a week. I can't just stay home, run home or change my job to receive packages.
    • Most delivery services offer a choice. You can ship with a signature required (in which case, there isn't any porch piracy) or you can allow delivery without signature (in which case the customer takes a risk). In general this works really well. For high-value items, you require a signature. For low-value items, you forego it. Those who want to steal from porches know that it's only lower-value items that are going to be present. That seems to be a pretty good compromise.

  • Marketeer Plays the AI Card (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nukenerd ( 172703 ) on Monday November 27, 2023 @09:19AM (#64034591)
    OK, it's insurance against having your parcel nicked. WTF has AI got to do with it, and why should I care?
    • In theory, the AI would be used to build the actuarial tables (although actuaries can already do that but they like to get paid) and, presumably, to indicate when additional counter-measures should be taken. The actuaries could do this too but the AI would probably be faster (and, for sure, cheaper)

    • Better than that - it's insurance YOU have to pay for - you're insuring the sender does their job right.

      You don't get to choose which courier they use, so why the hell should you be paying for insurance? The only future for that is that they use the cheapest crappest courier they can find, and let your insurance take care of the problems.

      To answer your question... the AI will be used to work out if you're a sucker. If you buy the insurance but live in a safe address, then you're a sucker, so they can cheap

  • I don't understand. What possible incentive do I have to pay for this? The delivery of the parcel is the responsibility of the vendor. If they don't deliver it to me then I'm not paying for it. If there's a dispute, it's on the vendor to prove they delivered it properly. A photo of the delivery guy handing it to me would suffice. If the vendor wants to pay for insurance to ensure that their chosen delivery provider doesn't rip them off, that's their choice. I'm not paying for it. I'm not accepting or paying

    • I was thinking exactly the same thing. Why is shitty delivery the responsibility of the customer? Whoever accepts practices like this? Doesn't work in the EU, doesn't work in China either. I doubt it would work in any other country except the USA where people seem to be amazingly gullible somehow.

  • your credit card gives you free protection

  • so damaged in shipping if you don't pay no refund and no replacement?

    So they can under pack your item and blame you for not buying this add on?

  • Yes. Let's make the rationale for porch piracy justifiable because the insurance will pay for the replacement, so not only do the pirates get the goods, but you do as well when the insurance replaces the item.

    And it only costs you 2% as well! For twice the happiness!! Both you and the pirate are happy!!!

    And if you're in cahoots with the pirate, it's like a permanent half off sale for less than Amazon Prime! You buy it, the pirate steals it, you get another one and they both go on eBay for less than retail! Then use the profits to do it again and again using hundreds of different porch mules! The possibilities are endless!!

    • And if you're in cahoots with the pirate, it's like a permanent half off sale for less than Amazon Prime! You buy it, the pirate steals it, you get another one and they both go on eBay for less than retail! Then use the profits to do it again and again using hundreds of different porch mules! The possibilities are endless!!

      In ways to go to jail, probably. That'd be where the AI comes in. Or even not AI, just monitoring tools. IE they notice that you're using the insurance more than normal, so either you become ineligible for the "service" or they start looking deeper. Maybe hire an investigator to monitor your delivery area.

      Then, when they notice that it's you taking your package then filing a claim, well, insurance fraud is a crime. Or if you have your compatriot actually steal it, they go down for theft. Etc...

  • Apparently it's not possible to deliver parcels to neighbours in the USA. There must be a single American pretending to be 330million people. /s

    Joke's aside there's no porch piracy where I live. Parcels are *NEVER* left outside, and you can simply request signature for anything you order if it is valuable. We have emails / dockets in our mailbox telling us exactly which house has our parcel and just pick it up when people are home.

    Why make something complicated?

    • The thing about this summary which makes me think that the US really is insane is the implication that in New York City, where the locals famously use the sidewalks and get upset about tourists dawdling in them, it's necessary to drive to your nearest pickup point ("the time spent driving and waiting in line for a package doesn't seem like the best fix"). Maybe it's just badly written and it's conflating the situation in NYC with the situation in rural areas; otherwise the pickup point density seems ludicro

      • Indeed. It should be pretty obvious that there's going to be differences between package delivery in NYC and, say, my rural-suburban home.

        Unless you're living in the fringes of NYC and actually have something close to a SFD*, and actually drive to work, you're unlikely to have to drive to pick up a package.

        Now, I've never lived in NYC, but my parents are from the state, and I've read up on it a few times. Most of the bigger apartments are going to have a permanent door attendant, who can take and store pa

      • I guess they might have one at the central post office :)

        But where I live we have one at 10 minutes walking and 3 minutes by bike. And that's due to zoning, because it's all housing otherwise. China has pickup points in every little shop (they don't trust their neighbours much) in the larger cities.

  • I can see the "Law of Unintended Consequences" poking up its grinning, misshapen head over this. One of Terry Pratchett's main Discworld characters explained to an underling why it would be a bad idea to put a bounty on the teeming rat population of his city. Because within a few weeks, he said, farmers outside the city would be breeding and selling...rats. For profit.

    So my buddy and I both want a nice, new monitor. I order one and pay the insurance. It is "stolen" off my porch, and replaced for 4 bucks. Everybody wins...except whoever is providing "a type of no-fault insurance". And who knows, maybe they win too, because enough insured stuff gets through on the first try to make the plan work. I have my doubts, though.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by pjt33 ( 739471 )

      The Discworld example is probably based on an incident in the British Raj where a bounty placed on snakes led to snake-breeding. I say "probably" because there are other historical examples [wikipedia.org] which Pterry might have encountered first.

  • "Amazon ... recently launched Amazon Key, allowing consumers to throw privacy to the wind and give delivery persons access to their homes and cars."

    Nooooooo, that's never gonna happen in my home.

    I'm not going to be allowing multiple, random, un-vetted strangers to enter my home whether I'm there or not. I won't let the police or acquaintances do that, why in the world would I allow a delivery person to?

  • One very simple fix would be for the delivery driver to KNOCK ON THE GODDAMN DOOR OR RING THE BELL.

    Time and time again I see drivers leave packages, without even making an attempt to let the people inside the house know the boxes are there. Drop them on the porch, then ring the bell or knock on the door before they go.

  • .. deliver the packages instead of abandoning them outside properties. And if you can't deliver them hold them at a depot for the customer to pick up.

  • Let customers declare when deliveries can be accepted and the delivery driver drops the packages off within those times.

  • Does this cover damage by bears?
    I had a package delivered on Friday and when I arrived home on Saturday, a bear had taken huge bites out of the box. I don't know why since there was no food in the box (it was just a new xmas tree stand).
    Fortunately, the stand was not damaged and I was able to find the small parts not too far away from the box.

    So, would this be covered by this scam insurance?

  • ....crazy idea here, how about the police start punishing them? Like, actually.
    Ask Mark Rober - he LITERALLY has the live video of these people stealing shit, with GPS coords of where they go home and open it. He could give that to cops and they wouldn't do anything.

    Then again, he doesn't want to punish or inconvenience them in any serious way at all either. So he's apparently symptomatic of the kinds of voters that support politicians that build criminal-accepting societies.

    (In reality, I know it's not

    • Cops don't go after porch pirates because it is too low value of a crime to make it onto their list of things to do. That is to say that beat cops are supposed to be on patrol performing revenue gathering activities (writing tickets). Detectives are tasked with solving criminal cases, but usually have case loads already that are more high profile than a porch pirate.

      Rober is in a commercial venture to provide entertainment, and maybe teach the viewer about some engineering/sciency stuff. I am sure that pers

  • A few viral videos of porch pirates getting pummeled with baseball bats would go along way.

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