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The Courts United States

Coinbase Wins at Supreme Court as Ruling Reinforces Arbitration (bloomberg.com) 65

The US Supreme Court sided with a Coinbase unit in a ruling that reinforces the ability of companies to channel customer and employee disputes into arbitration. From a report: The justices, voting 5-4, ruled that lawsuits filed in federal court must be put on hold while a defendant presses an appeal that would send the case to arbitration. Writing for the court, Justice Brett Kavanaugh said allowing district courts to move forward as the appeal is ongoing would reduce the benefits of arbitration. "If the district court could move forward with pre-trial and trial proceedings while the appeal on arbitrability was ongoing, then many of the asserted benefits of arbitration (efficiency, less expense, less intrusive discovery, and the like) would be irretrievably lost," Kavanaugh wrote. Business groups rallied behind Coinbase in the case, saying that letting litigation go forward would impose unnecessary costs. Consumer advocates said judges should have the discretion to decide which claims should proceed during appeal, as courts do with other areas of the law. Coinbase is battling claims by Abraham Bielski, who said the crypto company should compensate him for $31,000 he lost after he gave a scammer remote access to his account. In a second suit that was before the high court, Coinbase is accused of holding a $1.2 million Dogecoin sweepstakes without adequately disclosing that entrants didn't have to buy or sell the cryptocurrency.
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Coinbase Wins at Supreme Court as Ruling Reinforces Arbitration

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  • by Eunomion ( 8640039 ) on Friday June 23, 2023 @09:49AM (#63626352)
    Their "rulings" are increasingly devoid of actual legal reasoning and predictable on whose financial incentives would benefit, so real courts should act accordingly and begin operating as if they never happened and SCOTUS is inactive. Because it's basically true. The majority was appointed by people who not only failed to get a majority of American votes in any election, but failed to observe any law they disliked while in power. Law and order requires ignoring them.
    • by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Friday June 23, 2023 @10:00AM (#63626394)

      These people weren’t picked for their judicial prowess. They were picked to do the bidding of their masters. Mitch McConnell says to stop picking on that poor justice who accepted lavish vacations and then ruled favorably on the same company. https://thehill.com/homenews/s... [thehill.com]

      • Yup. They were installed to subvert the institution, by men who were themselves installed by minority vote to subvert American democracy. These treasonous cultists need to be brought to heel.
    • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday June 23, 2023 @10:13AM (#63626448)
      this is the correct ruling. I forget the exact law, but Congress DID pass a law making Arbitration binding and allowing companies to do it. Joe Biden's congress passed a law taking that requirement away for racial and sexual harassment claims, but for regular business claims it's still in force.

      This is another one of those "change how you vote" cases, where the law is what the law is, and if we don't like it we need to stop voting for pro-corporate goons. That means voting in primary elections, and, let's face it, the Democrat primary elections. I don't think there's anyone who thinks the GOP isn't a lost cause when it comes to being pro-corporate anymore.
      • Good luck voting for a Democrat that's not ultimately pro-corporate. Bernie sometimes doesn't support pro-corporate policies. And. . . uh, yeah, nobody else.

        Primary logic: Not pro-corporate policies? Unelectable. Next.

        • Re: (Score:1, Offtopic)

          I know it's really hard to make people from the USA believe it, but there are more parties to choose from than just the two identical bought-and-paid-for ones. Yes, even in the USA. There is even a word for having a fair number of parties to choose from: it's called democracy.
          • I know it's really hard to make people from the USA believe it, but there are more parties to choose from than just the two identical bought-and-paid-for ones. Yes, even in the USA. There is even a word for having a fair number of parties to choose from: it's called democracy.

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Not in America, man. No way, no how. A vote for anything other than the lesser evil of Democrat vs. Republican is automatically considered a vote for the one you hate the most. We've got that drilled into us from the time we start approaching voting age. It's become a near religious level dogma at this point. And, sadly, when you go to the polls and your choice is between somebody like Trump, or somebody like Biden, or throwing away your vote altogether and risking a Trump repeat? You actual

          • so no, there are not more than 2 parties. Winner take all voting leads to 2 party systems. There are, however, a handful of fake parties funded by the major ones that exist as spoilers. The Dems boost the libertarian party, the GOP has 3 or 4 parties they boost these days because after Jill Stien everyone knows Green is phony.

            My Favorite is Cornel West, who's going around pretending to run while also praising DeSantis.
          • by GlennC ( 96879 )

            ... but there are more parties to choose from than just the two identical bought-and-paid-for ones.

            Not in the state of Ohio. If a candidate is not a member of "Team Blue" or "Team Red," they're not on the ballot.

            Democracy died decades ago.

          • The parties aren't identical, and never have been. They may look identical when seen from afar. In the past, one party was distinctly pro-worker and pro-union, while the other was pro-corporate. Today both are more pro-corporate but there are vastly bigger distinctions between them in other areas - one is becoming exceedingy anti-truth for example. If both parties were identical then we would not be trudging down the road towards civil war II.

            Two have more than two effective parties you'd need a change in

        • Good luck voting for a Democrat that's not ultimately pro-corporate. Bernie sometimes doesn't support pro-corporate policies. And. . . uh, yeah, nobody else.

          Primary logic: Not pro-corporate policies? Unelectable. Next.

          Not sure that litmus test is worse than any on the Right ...

          • Good luck voting for a Democrat that's not ultimately pro-corporate. Bernie sometimes doesn't support pro-corporate policies. And. . . uh, yeah, nobody else.

            Primary logic: Not pro-corporate policies? Unelectable. Next.

            Not sure that litmus test is worse than any on the Right ...

            Our choice now is between unhinged lunatic freak-shows (Republicans) and polite, well spoken, pro-corporate assholes that sometimes say the right things, then do the opposite (Democrats). Though, to be fair, there are a few unhinged lunatics managing to weasel their way in there too.

            What a time to be alive!

        • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday June 23, 2023 @11:35AM (#63626694)
          I've voted in for 20 years. They lose. Every time.

          Very few people show up to primary elections. If every person who bitched online about pro-corporate dems showed up for the Primary and googled the candidate's policy before hand we'd been half way through President Sander's second term with 52 pro-consumer Senators and however many in the house (I lost track)
          • Correction, I wrote 20 years. I've only been voting in Primaries for a bit over 10. It took me a while to realize how important the primary election was. I was only voting in the General up until then.
          • As useless as my vote is, I do vote in primaries when allowed to do so. It's made zero difference, same as my vote in the general elections. I still do it, but it's the equivalent of pissing into the wind in my state. Zero chance any candidate that isn't a corporate shill will ever be elected. We Elected Kristi Noem governor for fuck sake. That woman's one of the most shady people in government, and yes, I know that's saying something.

      • The Court didn't decide that arbitration was required:

        (There are allegations of fraud, which may be why the Federal Arbitration Act hasn't answered that question.)

        The dissent points out why a majority-Republican court might take the position it did:

        This mandatory-general-stay rule for interlocutory arbitrability appeals comes out of nowhere. No statute imposes it. Nor does any decision of this Court. Yet today’s majority invents a new stay rule perpetually favoring one class of litigants—defendants seeking arbitration.

        To his credit, Thomas followed his idiosyncratic jurisprudence and joined parts of the dissent (though not what I quoted). Fed Soc will probably make him sit by the bathroom on his next private flight.

      • You think the GOP is pro corporate? Where have you been for the last 10 years? Theyve been completely consumed by the culture wars. Red states are competing over how anti corporate they can be. Descant is has picked a serious fights with the loathed employer in Florida, and nearly half our states have passed laws so hostile to women that theyre bleeding out young people at a ferocious rate.
      • You are running under the assumption that all laws passed by Congress are legitimate, which is exactly what the Supreme Court is expected to judge. In this case, the Court seems to feel that the public court system can be exchanged for private "justice" systems. This would not be correct or in anyone's best interest. Well, it's in the best interest of companies that would not fare well in court but, can expect to bend an "arbitration" system.

        • By definition any law passed by Congress is legitimate.
          The USSC determines if the law passed is constitutional.

          As far as arbitration vs court goes, the little guy doesn't stand a chance in court because he can't afford a legal team to fight a big corporation for years.

          In many cases the only option is arbitration (not great) vs court (can't afford it at all).

      • Arbitration is basically a way for companies to win. Because whoever has the most money wins in arbitration, it avoids the messy complications that a company might actually lose to a customer because a judge or jury was able to hear the facts and make an independent decision. Imagine if tobacco companies had required arbitration to be used by any of their customers several decades back.

        • Imagine if a little guy, in this case with a $31k claim, had to start off by paying his lawyer a $10k retained just to get started. Then he has to pay all court fees, the lawyer's office expenses, and anything else that comes up.

          By the time he's in court his expenses are already $30k on a $31k claim.

          I'd rather have arbitration, thanks. I don't see how you think court is the cheaper way to go where money isn't the winner.

          • Except I was at a company that had been known to sue or counter sue ex employees. So they came up with an arbitration agreement for everyone. One clause essentially said if either party disagrees with the settlement, they can have another arbitration process started with expenses paid by the disputing party. Which means, if I was in arbitration and lost, I would have to fork over the money to try arbitration again, and again, and again, until I was out of money. It guaranteed that whoever had the most mo

            • That's the first I've ever heard of an infinite loop pay until you're broke arbitration agreement. Easy answer: don't work for that company or expect to get fired later with no recourse.

              There are other non court options btw. You can file a complaint with the eeoc and then it becomes a government action.

      • This is another one of those "change how you vote" cases, where the law is what the law is, and if we don't like it we need to stop voting for pro-corporate goons.

        The IQ at which true abstract/critical thinking occurs is around 110. The average American IQ is 98. A full SD below 110. The voters who care about such issues are dramatically outnumbered by those who do not.

        Democracy is idiot rule. Okay, that is extreme, it is Average Rule. That does, however, preclude most notions of voting on the issues.

      • Simple thought experiment: If the law were plainly the opposite, and plainly went against Coinbase, do you believe the ruling would have been different? The majority has made it quite clear that the answer is No. Their rulings are predetermined by either corrupt financial incentive, unaccountable political ideology, or both, and legal precedent (if they even bother to cite any) is just used as an afterthought to craft excuses for totally arbitrary and lawless behavior.
    • What you are advocating has a clear bright line leading right toward armed conflict.

      You'll not like it if it comes, and beg for it to ultimately end. When it does finally end, you probably won't like what form government takes then, either.

      Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to suffer all the nasty consequences yet again.

      • You seem confused about where responsibility lie here. If a lawless cabal within an institution acts with impunity outside the scope and against the plain structure of the Constitution, and the American people refuse to recognize those actions as legitimate, then one of two things happens: Those criminals resign and law and order is restored, or they double down on their crimes and attempt to impose their will on the people violently.

        If the latter happened, then why would you blame the American people f
  • by Anonymous Coward

    $upreme court sides with business to fuck over consumers.

  • The law is clear (Score:5, Informative)

    by schwit1 ( 797399 ) on Friday June 23, 2023 @10:10AM (#63626432)

    "1925 Federal Arbitration Act, which says courts must enforce arbitration accords the same as any other contract."

    If the law should be changed then it is up to the elected legislature to do that.

    I agree the law should be changed, but it's not the job of the judiciary to overrule a law unless its deemed unconstitutional.

    • Re:The law is clear (Score:5, Interesting)

      by whoever57 ( 658626 ) on Friday June 23, 2023 @10:14AM (#63626450) Journal

      I agree the law should be changed, but it's not the job of the judiciary to overrule a law unless its deemed unconstitutional.

      "In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law."

      You can't contract away other constitutional rights, so why is this one different?

      • Re:The law is clear (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Zak3056 ( 69287 ) on Friday June 23, 2023 @10:28AM (#63626488) Journal

        An NDA "contracts away" your right to free speech, does it not? NBA contracts restrict the right to bear arms. Your employer (and in some cases, your landlord) can require you subject your property to search. Why is an agreement* that we will settle any disputes over our contract in a non-judicial setting unconstitutional on its face?

        * - I am no fan of forced arbitration clauses (especially in instances where the bargaining power of the parties is lopsided) but as the GP says, the law is the law. If you don't like the law, don't rely on the courts to change it for you, that's not how our system works.

        • None of these are the same, because the government is not imposing those limitations on your freedom. In the case of forced arbitration, by refusing to allow you to take your case to court, the government is limiting your rights.

          Can you contract yourself into slavery?

          • by Zak3056 ( 69287 )

            The government has imposed nothing--the government has made a provision for a contractual provision between two parties, which, at least in theory, has been entered into by both of their own free will, to be enforced by the courts. Nothing requires you to enter into such a contract, you can refuse to sign on that has a binding arbitration clause. If the other party wants your money or goods badly enough, they are free to agree with you that arbitration is not necessary--or free to simply not to do busines

        • Section 8 Housing can not ban guns!

      • In the United States consumer protections aren't very strong and there aren't so many rights which can't be waived by a contract. And arbitration clauses are something which has been upheld by many courts over the years, not just this current partisan supreme court.

        However, even if you are European I don't think you have protection from this particular issue. Arbitration is handled by the New York Convention and more than 170 countries have signed on to that.
    • by guruevi ( 827432 )

      The point here is that one of the parties wanted to skip the arbitration accords altogether and go straight to the courts WHILE his arbitration proceedings are still pending. The SCOTUS simply said you can't do that, if the point of arbitration is that you don't go to the courts, then you should wait to go to the court when the arbitration is complete, not start parallel proceedings in multiple venues.

  • by DewDude ( 537374 ) on Friday June 23, 2023 @10:12AM (#63626446) Homepage

    All these horrible actors are getting passes in court while regular citizens are losing left and right.

    It's almost like this SCOTUS has decided if a decision helps the citizens then they're against it.

    On the flip side, I think the fools who did anything with crypto should just have to face the consequences they got fucked. Our government shouldn't be protecting people who decide to invest in unsecured illeg---

    Oh. They're rich. That's it.

    • Re:It's Amazing (Score:5, Informative)

      by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Friday June 23, 2023 @11:28AM (#63626666)
      While you no doubt have a popular opinion, you're talking out of your ass. Here's a ruling from last month [supremecourt.gov] (PDF warning) where a Minnesota woman who had her home seized by the state over unpaid taxes had to sue the government and take them to court because the state thought they were entitled to keep the excess from the sale over top of what was owed in tax debt. The Supreme Court ruled unanimously in her favor overturning all of the lower courts that were perfectly fine with the government pocketing the extra tens of thousands of dollars.

      So go on and tell me they don't care anything about common citizens or whatever other uninformed claptrap you can muster. The truth is you didn't like this opinion of theirs, which is certainly fine and you've your right to your own opinion. But then you made up a bunch of bullshit to go along with it. You honestly have no idea because outside of a few newsworthy cases, you don't look at their opinions.
      • In your example, they ruled against a state.

        The state was very unlikely to host a junket for any of these justices. No skin off their backs in this case.

  • by wakeboarder ( 2695839 ) on Friday June 23, 2023 @10:16AM (#63626456)
    Then it needs to be tipped to the consumers side. I had an instance where a company decision bilked me out of 400$, there was no way I could get it back and no way for me to bring it to a court. The only place I could have arbitrated was New York which is more than a few hundred miles away. That need to change. If we do have legal action or arbitration, then it needs accessible by consumers.
  • Mass arbitration (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Errol backfiring ( 1280012 ) on Friday June 23, 2023 @11:13AM (#63626618) Journal
    As Cory Doctorow explains in this (long but interesting) podcast [privacyinternational.org], arbitrations cost the company money. So mass arbitrations are way more expensive than one class action suit. If you file a lot of arbitration cases, the company itself will go to court to deny their own contract.
  • The US Constitution says that citizens have a right to trial by jury of their peers "for all matters civil and criminal." Arbitration came about as a handshake agreement between businesses to settle their disputes privately to save the time and money of going to court. At some point, the scumbags realized they could foist this off on the little guy so they could always win. It went to scotus, and the LEFT WING sycophants on scotus at the time decided that was just fine. And, that's where we are now.

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