Teens Are Stealing More Cars. They Learn How on Social Media. (yahoo.com) 99
Though Kia and Hyundai represent a tenth of U.S. auto sales, the New York Times reports that "Of the nearly 11,000 cars stolen in Memphis last year — about twice as many as in 2021 — roughly a third were late-model Kias and Hyundais, according to the police."
"It doesn't take much to rip them off: just a screwdriver, a USB cord and hot-wiring know-how found in videos proliferating on social media." Many of the culprits are teenagers or young adults stealing cars for kicks or to use them for other crimes, such as robberies, the police say. More than half of the 175 people arrested and accused of car theft this year in Memphis were teenagers, who often abandon the vehicles after a joyride.... [A]uto thefts have continued to rise, even as other forms of lawbreaking have leveled out or fallen....
[T]he surge has continued, fueled in part by social media videos that show, step by step, how to steal Kias and Hyundais that are not equipped with an engine immobilizer — an electronic security device that keeps a car from being started without a key.... [Kia and Hyundai] recently issued statements saying they had fixed the problem that makes their vehicles relatively easy to steal in their latest models, and were introducing free software upgrades for vulnerable cars — about 4.5 million Kias and 3.8 million Hyundais, the federal government estimated. At the same time, the companies have shipped steering wheel locks to police departments across the country, to be provided free of charge to car owners who drive at-risk models. And executives say they are constantly monitoring TikTok and YouTube for new videos that show how to steal their vehicles, and then alerting the social media companies so those videos can be removed....
Officials say the social media-driven rise in Kia and Hyundai thefts began about two years ago in Milwaukee, and then spread nationwide. City attorneys for Seattle and Columbus recently sued the automakers for not installing anti-theft technology, and other cities, including Cleveland, Milwaukee and St. Louis, have threatened litigation.
"It doesn't take much to rip them off: just a screwdriver, a USB cord and hot-wiring know-how found in videos proliferating on social media." Many of the culprits are teenagers or young adults stealing cars for kicks or to use them for other crimes, such as robberies, the police say. More than half of the 175 people arrested and accused of car theft this year in Memphis were teenagers, who often abandon the vehicles after a joyride.... [A]uto thefts have continued to rise, even as other forms of lawbreaking have leveled out or fallen....
[T]he surge has continued, fueled in part by social media videos that show, step by step, how to steal Kias and Hyundais that are not equipped with an engine immobilizer — an electronic security device that keeps a car from being started without a key.... [Kia and Hyundai] recently issued statements saying they had fixed the problem that makes their vehicles relatively easy to steal in their latest models, and were introducing free software upgrades for vulnerable cars — about 4.5 million Kias and 3.8 million Hyundais, the federal government estimated. At the same time, the companies have shipped steering wheel locks to police departments across the country, to be provided free of charge to car owners who drive at-risk models. And executives say they are constantly monitoring TikTok and YouTube for new videos that show how to steal their vehicles, and then alerting the social media companies so those videos can be removed....
Officials say the social media-driven rise in Kia and Hyundai thefts began about two years ago in Milwaukee, and then spread nationwide. City attorneys for Seattle and Columbus recently sued the automakers for not installing anti-theft technology, and other cities, including Cleveland, Milwaukee and St. Louis, have threatened litigation.
The best theft deterrent (Score:5, Funny)
Is a stick shift.
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I can drive a stick shift but it took me about 10 minutes to figure out how to move a Prius.
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Also an eight-track player so that the potential thieves also turn themselves in and beg to be locked up.
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Nope. My '97 Honda Accord with 5-speed was stolen all the same, and it had a stick as well. Not every kid out there is ignorant on manual transmissions. It even surprised me that they stole it. They used a shaved key to steal my car, which was fully locked and didn't have much inside. We found the car at a chop shop (no clue why, mine had electrical issues to start with) where they found very little stolen off of it, but they said it was ran at high speed into a brick wall before being abandoned. Several
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My '97 Honda Accord ...
Does that year not have an immobilizer? My 2001 Civic Coupe EX does and my understanding is that the fuel pump won't operate w/o the chip in the key, so while the car may start it won't actually run for very long ...
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My 96 Acura definitely didn't have one. My ignition switch wore out and it was shockingly easy to replace. A few screws and the switch was loose where you could turn it with a screwdriver.
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I'm not sure the immobilizer sensor is actually in the ignition switch, but under the dash near it. It's RFID so the key doesn't have to be that close. I read about someone wanting a flat key so he could carry it in his wallet, so he broke open/off the plastic on the key and taped the chip under the dash -- which seems dumb from a security standpoint...
Re:The best theft deterrent (Score:4, Informative)
The problem is a manual transmission has nothing computer controlled with it, unlike a modern automatic or autostick or other transmission out there.
A computer controls the engine - the timing and spark plugs, fuel mixture and other things and if that computer doesn't want the engine to run, it doesn't run. Likewise, that computer generally controls the transmission as well for automatics. So if the computer doesn't want the car to move, it won't shift out of park (the shifter is just a big multi-position switch). You don't have that with a manual - if you want to disengage the engine, the clutch and neutral ensure that once the parking brake is disengaged, the car is freewheeling.
In immobilizer equipped cars (these days practically all, except the cheap Kias and Hyundais), the engine computer gets its orders from the body computer which runs the immobilizer. If the body computer says the ECU shouldn't run the engine or transmission, the ECU doesn't run the engine or control the transmission. Even if you hotwire the starter, the ECU won't do a thing other than potentially alert the body computer that the engine is being started. Even if you used the key, until the chip in the key talks to the body computer the ECU won't be unlocked and allowed to run the power train.
Of course, it's easy to fix this - you can always unlock the vehicle and then using the OBD-II port, tell the body computer to pair with a new key - this requires generally 1 minute of work (30 seconds to pick the lock, 30 seconds to pair with a new blank key). But it generally requires a specialized OBD-II scanner able to execute the command and those are expensive pieces of equipment.
Of course, in non immobilizer equipped cars, the ECU's "run" indication usually comes from the ignition switch allowing them to be easily hotwired.
Finally, it really only applies to US vehicles. Other countries have had engine immobilizer mandates for decades now (EU since before the millennium, Canada since 2007), rendering this attack completely useless.
As for crimes, as grand theft auto is typically a felony, a lot of felonies can be upgraded to be tried as an adult (usually a misdemeanour cannot be upgraded to adult), so it's really something one needs to consider because the lulz can haunt you for the rest of your life. Being forced to answer "I have been convicted of a crime" with "yes" and "grand theft auto" doesn't seem very innocent when filling out forms for employment, banking, passports, or other thing. At the very least it brings on extra scrutiny and having to explain the situation for the rest of your life.
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Is a stick shift.
You jest, but both of my Hondas (2001 Civic Coupe EX, 2002 CR-V EX) are manuals and even my dealership/mechanic has to track someone down to drive/move my vehicles when I bring them in for service. Only a few Honda models are even available with manual transmission now, and the ones that are, are either expensive or have to be ordered. Also, I don't think they even make 2-door models any more.
Re:The best theft deterrent (Score:4, Funny)
They'll learn how to use a "stick shift" in prison.
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Is a stick shift.
My girlfriend can "drive" a stick shift...but you won't believe how she does it :))
This is the LockPickingLawyer... (Score:2)
...and what I've got for you today is how to steal a ride by picking the lock with this toothpick AND how to defend yourself in court afterwards since all it took was a toothpick...
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...and what I've got for you today is a valuable lesson on why engine immobilizers shouldn't suddenly be "optional" because auto executives want fatter bonuses...
FTFY.
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They're economy cars, stripped down of extras, the whole point of those models is to be the cheapest available. This is not an industry wide thing.
Re: This is the LockPickingLawyer... (Score:2)
What defense? It could be idling at the curb with the doors open and it's still a crime to take it.
Isn't the real problem that we have people (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: Isn't the real problem that we have people (Score:1)
The answer is to start putting car thieves in jail, regardless of age. When their peers start disappearing from their high school classes maybe the kids will realize that commuting a crime isn't a great idea...
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Yeh,because putting people in jail in the US has been such a huge success, giving you the highest incarceration rate in the world, and high crime figures. Why not keep trying the same thing that has failed so many times and expecting different results, thats sanity right there.oh, wait
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giving you the highest incarceration rate in the world, and high crime figures.
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Are you saying the former caused the latter, and not vice versa?
I'm not defending the US prison system, but I don't see how you can blame it for the high crime rate.
Most of the Americas, with the notable exception of Canada, have high crime rates. Many far worse than the US. What is the common factor?
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Exactly. High incarceration rate? Look at the rest of the hemisphere. At least America is actually trying to incarcerate some of them. If you're a turd in Mexico or just about anywhere in South America you're on the street until someone kills you. Statistically this is better?
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The incarceration rate is not high for violent offences, its high for minor drug offences, highly biased towards minortities.
While the United States represents about 4.2 percent of the world's population,[3] it houses around 20 percent of the world's prisoners.[4] 5x the world average.
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The point was, a high incarceration rate does not reduce crime, While the United States represents about 4.2 percent of the world's population, it houses around 20 percent of the world's prisoners.
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The point was, a high incarceration rate does not reduce crime,
It does a bit. You don't get re-offending while they are locked up.
Some of the high prison population is the failed war on drugs, but the US also has a very large number of violent offenders, and habitual criminals.
Causes include lack of social security, gun availability, culture and racial demographics. You are not going to undo that by emptying the prisons.
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The US certainly is a geedy and violent society. You only need to look at the vast number of guns to see that. If prison worked, you wouldnt have repeat offenders, thats the point.
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If prison worked, you wouldnt have repeat offenders, thats the point.
eh? It works fine if you don't let them out again. Or not until they are older.
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Re: Isn't the real problem that we have people (Score:2)
No, a real problem would be a society predicated on universal honesty. Because *one* crook could take it down to destitution and anarchy. I don't mind locking my doors at night, and it's not an indictment of my neighbors that I do so.
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"If there's one thing in this world I hate, it's an unlocked footlocker!"
Given opportunity, people will. (Score:1)
Almost all prison escapes aren't masterful plans to escape but rather someone taking advantage of an opportunity when security just so happens to be lacking and this is basically the same thing. There are a shitload of cars out there that suddenly have next to no security and some are taking advantage of it.
It used to be that anyone taking a joyride in someone's car wasn't viewed by cops as heinous criminal deviant that should be thrown in prison for a minimum of 10 years, so people would return them with l
Re:Given opportunity, people will. (Score:5, Insightful)
Or you could respect the average person's right to not have their property stolen. Transportation is a fairly expensive and important part of life in our society, and depriving someone of their ride is unacceptable.
If you steal for anything other than an immediate survival, need you're announcing yourself as unfit to participate in society and should be treated as such.
It is in no way a 'boys will be boys' thing that should be brushed off.
Re: Given opportunity, people will. (Score:1)
Car thieves, like horse thieves in myths old west should enjoy some quality time in jail, and have a permanent record of the arrest in their record.
People should stop coddling the criminals and spend a little more time contemplating the plight of the worker that loses their means of getting to work to provide for their family...
Re:Given opportunity, people will. (Score:5, Interesting)
Almost all prison escapes aren't masterful plans to escape but rather someone taking advantage of an opportunity when security just so happens to be lacking and this is basically the same thing. There are a shitload of cars out there that suddenly have next to no security and some are taking advantage of it.
It used to be that anyone taking a joyride in someone's car wasn't viewed by cops as heinous criminal deviant that should be thrown in prison for a minimum of 10 years, so people would return them with less gas. In this day and age it would be insane to do anything but abandon a vehicle.
When and where exactly was this care free era where thieves returned joy ride cars?
Re: Given opportunity, people will. (Score:2)
On what planet was that? Auto theft has always been a serious crime.
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Violent crime is dropping...again, though crimes of property..like grand theft auto is up. Things like that happen. In fact, violent crime today is STILL lower than it was in the 70's, even in what you call "urban cesspools"
Though if you look at the statistics, medium sized and small cities have worse crime than the large cities.
Tesla (Score:2)
Or if they drive a Tesla they might accidentally steal and drive off with the wrong car through the app [globalnews.ca].
(it that story checks out there's some pretty brutal security in Tesla's code).
Re:Tesla (Score:5, Funny)
Tesla has a new anti theft feature where the steering wheel detaches. Good luck thieves! https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/0... [cnn.com]
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Hey it could be worse - at least it's not that the front fell off [youtu.be]...
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Or, in less anecdotal cases, requiring a PIN code to drive on top of having a valid key present.
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Tesla has a new anti theft feature where the steering wheel detaches. Good luck thieves! https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/0... [cnn.com]
Tesla - Quality Is Job 1(337)!
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Ford too:
https://www.nola.com/news/busi... [nola.com]
And Nissan:
https://insideevs.com/news/656... [insideevs.com]
And Toyota:
https://electrek.co/2022/06/23... [electrek.co]
And GM:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/B... [wsj.com]
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Seems much more likely that the other person left their key card in the center console... but the story seems off on several levels; how would the other person message him?
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Seems much more likely that the other person left their key card in the center console... but the story seems off on several levels; how would the other person message him?
I guess that makes sense.
According to the story his number was written on something in his car. So I suspect persons A and B left their key cards in the console, and person A additionally left his Tesla unlocked. So person B went to unlock his Tesla, but ended up entering person A's Tesla and driving off with it.
It does seem a bit odd that neither the individual nor the newspaper could get a hold of Tesla.
And they said (Score:2)
Rights, anyone? (Score:1)
It's cool how these auto manufacturers apparently think it's perfectly okay to try to take away someone's freedom of speech because they made some cars with terrible security and don't want people finding out.
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It's cool how these auto manufacturers apparently think it's perfectly okay to try to take away someone's freedom of speech because they made some cars with terrible security and don't want people finding out.
Is it any worse than this?
City attorneys for Seattle and Columbus recently sued the automakers for not installing anti-theft technology, and other cities, including Cleveland, Milwaukee and St. Louis, have threatened litigation.
If people want cheap cars, let 'em have them.
And carpenters are making better tables (Score:5, Insightful)
They learn how on Youtube.
And programmers are writing better code, painters are making better paintings, math students are learning better math, and ...
What's the problem here, *exactly*?
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Lax regulations in the USA on immobilizers. Every company included them except Hyundai because they were being greedy and saved a few bucks. Its so bad that companies aren’t insuring these models. https://www.wbrc.com/2023/03/0... [wbrc.com]
I see the problem... (Score:1)
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Not quite. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/... [go.com]
Insurance companies really don’t like paying.
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"Insurance companies really don’t like paying."
True, but if lots of cars get stolen, lots of new car insurances will result.
There's an easy fix for this (Score:4, Interesting)
You abolish protection for minors for felonies and make them automatically tried as adults.
Spare me whataboutisms about immaturity and brain development. The average teenager knows this is wrong.
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The average teenager knows this is wrong.
Impulse control and perception of danger isn't developed in teenagers. Trying them as adults means that consequences of their adolescent actions will have impact on the rest of their lives.
Re: There's an easy fix for this (Score:2)
Trying them as adults means that consequences of their adolescent actions will have impact on the rest of their lives.
And what of the impact on the rest of their lives when they learn they can steal a $20-30K care and not be punished?
And what if the parent that wakes up to find their car stolen when they needed it to get to work to provide for their family? Do you think they'll just laugh it off and say "what can you do? Kids will be kids!"?
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This isn't about teens or social media (Score:5, Insightful)
Kia and Hyundai cheaping screwed everyone (Score:3)
For a decade (2010-2020) after ALL other manufacturers started using key immobilizers Kia and Hyundia cheaped out and didn't install them.
This makes it possible to steal most any of their cars in under a minute. Millions of cars.
In saving probably under $100 per vehicle, they have FUCKED their customers and the insurance companies. That's the lightest word I would use.
Our Kia minivan was stolen, over $5,000 to the insurance company to repair a window/center console/ignition.
How big of a deal is this? In the St. Louis area alone, in 2022 alone, over 4,000 Kia and Hyundai were stolen. With a floor of $5k apiece, that's a minimum of $20 MILLION of damages in one metro area in one year. That's not counting the ones used as battering rams to enter gun stores or used in the commission of crimes and murders (very common).
https://www.kmov.com/2023/02/0... [kmov.com]
Kia and Hyundai want to charge about $500 for an immobilizer solution and they are rolling out a software update that will fix the issue for newer models. There will still be millions of "basically free" cars on the road until they go away.
The companies should be forced to recall all of the vehicles, or be banned from selling in the US market until doing so. Hundreds per month are still being stolen here locally.
My Kia (yes, we have 2) hasn't been stolen, I use two Club style devices and plan on installing a hard wired physical key that disables the ignition. This will not stop my car from being targeted and broken into and the steering column destroyed, but it should prevent the car from disappearing (I part on street in an urban area).
Fuck Kia and Hyundai, they deserve it because they fucked their customers royally and haven't acknowledged the problem and taken pathetic efforts that result in owners paying out of pocket for their mistakes.
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Re: Kia and Hyundai cheaping screwed everyone (Score:2)
Pick a better insurance company. Buying the lowest cost insurance is a false economy. Choose an insurer that pay on claims, they are out there and aren't that expensive.
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Name one insurance company.
Living in Colorado.
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But that's the free market at work - you chose to buy cars without immobilisers, so you get to live with the consequences. If the insurance companies are in trouble, that means they didn't price the risk properly, and should have been charging higher premiums to insure cars without immobilisers. You can't make immobilisers mandatory on new cars (as Europe and Australia do) because that denies people the choice and goes against free market principles. The Invisible Hand will sort it all out.
Word of mouth (Score:2)
terrible arrest rate (Score:1)
Re: Get rid of 'charter schools' and 'vouchers' fi (Score:2)
WTF are you going on about?
Are you upset that some Christian parents manage to pay the same school taxes as their neighbors AND pay tuition for a private/religious education for their children?
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My dad's 92 Oldsmobile had an alarm (Score:2)
That was a factory installed extra. It would go off if you openned the car door and failed to turn the key in the ignition before a set period of time.
If the alarm went off, the car wouldn't start even if you did turn the key unless you pushed the "secret" reset button. This button was located under the steering column and could (nominally) only be pressed with a long pin.
One time I accidentally set it off and had no long pin. So I reached behind the panel, yanked the two wires off the reset switch and shor
cars without immobiliser? (Score:1)
Steering wheel locks (Score:1)
Serious question I'm not American; why is it the responsibility of police departments to distribute steering wheel locks?
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