Americans Duped Into Losing $10 Billion By Illegal Indian Call Centres in 2022 (deccanherald.com) 159
US citizens lost over $10 billion due to phishing calls by illegal Indian call centres in 2022, as per the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) data. From a report: Most of the victims of these fraud calls from Indian phishing gangs were elderly US citizens above the age of 60 years who lost over $3 billion, Times Of India reported citing FBI data. After several incidents were reported in 2022, the FBI has now deputed a permanent representative at the US embassy in New Delhi. The representative will work closely with the CBI, Interpol and the Delhi Police to bust these gangs that have put India under the threat to be termed as the hub of such illegal call centres. Several Americans lost a total of $10.2 billion in 2022 so far, which is a 47 per cent increase from 2021's $6.9 billion, to such fraud calls.
so, how much lost to legit call centers (Score:3)
I am talking about those pushing to purchase replacements instead of helping to fix things when the problem is fixable. .
Fix caller id already. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Fix caller id already. (Score:5, Interesting)
Make callers buy SSL certificates and revoke them from known scammers.
Then bake certs into the telephony systems.
Re:Fix caller id already. (Score:4, Insightful)
Clearly the system is running the way the people in charge what it to be ran, otherwise I'm sure we could make a secure caller ID.
In fact, most of the problems today are only problems from certain perspectives. Once again, the people in charge of the world cannot possibly be that upset about it otherwise they would in fact, do something about it. No, I firmly believe things are the way they are because the people with the most money call the shots. Elected or not.
Instead of rolling out a proper setup for caller ID, we'll continue on because it would cost someone money and we cannot have that.
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Make callers buy SSL certificates and revoke them from known scammers.
Because that's worked so well to stop phishing.
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Re: Fix caller id already. (Score:2)
Re: Fix caller id already. (Score:2)
The capital investment is more expensive. It's more likely to be effective at flushing out bad actors who don't bother to spend money on security.
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Let us clearly identify all calls. In this day of Voice Over IP, the source nation may not have any link to the phone exchange abused. And Caller ID was designed to be deliberately spoofable, for reasons that are overwhelmed by its abuse for friend. Abusers, and fraudsters, are not punished by anyone.
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They're working on it with the STIR/SHAKEN [wikipedia.org] protocol, but progress has been slow, and it's going to take a long time to get all of the telcos on board.
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Just don't answer the phone unless you know the caller. Many phones let you auto reject numbers not in your phone book.
If you can't live with that, Google's call screening feature is quite good.
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In addition to a smartphone (which I seem to never get spam on, knock on wood) - I have a landline which is always ringing several times a day from junk calls - which I am guess is how these older people got scammed.
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It's more than just spam. I'd rather most people and institutions contact me by some kind of text medium. Then I can process it at my leisure, keep a copy for my records etc.
I turned off voice mail years ago too.
Re: Fix caller id already. (Score:2)
I've never whitelisted anybody, but Google manages to filter out about 95% of unwanted calls. It works pretty good. You just have to report a few numbers as spam and it starts to learn what it shouldn't send through.
When in doubt, Google will voice screen the incoming caller. I don't know exactly what they hear, but this seems to work very well for delivering suspicious but legitimate calls, like when a call center you contacted calls you back.
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Also clearly identify and let me block calls from outside the country. If that makes an American Company suffer, well they can move their call center back home. Also clearly identify IP based calls, so I can block them too. BLock BLock BLock! Maybe I should just turn off the ringer.
You can already block calls dialling in from international numbers. That isn't the problem.
The problem is that the call centres, whilst located overseas, join the telephone network inside the countries borders. The call centre may be in Bangalore but the actual PABX is in Milwaukee. This is how you can call your bank or an airline on the local number and get someone in India, Mexico or the Philippines.
However despite this, blocking it would be trivial as all we need to do is fine any telco that permit
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If you are on a fully digital subscriber line, you can block whole number ranges in some telephone routers. This helps to some extent. I'm living in Germany and have blocked all numbers with the country code for India. The frequency of fake Microsoft support calls has diminished to almost zero.
I would still like improvements to caller ID though, as I'm still getting telephone spam from companies inside Germany, sometimes with fake telephone number
If you are on a fully digital subscriber line, you have far better tools at your disposal than caller ID.
You should be using ANI (Automatic Number Identification) in the North American calling system, or CLI (Caller Line Identification) in the European system.
They both show the callers subscription information within the system as is used for billing.
They also show the class of caller by an identifier you can filter on.
I only allow class 00 (POTS lines), 60-63 (cellular), and a couple classes in the 20-30 r
A while back these jokers called me 7x in one day (Score:2)
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Well, I have gotten two of these in 22 years. That is what happens if the telco gets fined up to $50k (per call) if they willfully do not block scam sources communicated to them. I guess in the US even the criminal business of these people is valued over civil rights of the citizens...
Block all voip calls (Score:2)
Just block VOIP calls or make the telcos pay $50 billion annually into a call center fraud recovery fund.
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This isn't a Telco issue, this is a crime and educational issue. We also need the Indian gov't to start cracking down on the activity.
corruption (Score:2, Insightful)
This will continue as long as the authorities in India are corrupt. The right people are getting their cut of the $10B so this is allowed to happen. Talk about a shithole country, corrupt, classist, and racist.
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Dis will can-tinu as long as enough people called up randomly actually believe that this James from Microsoft Services really is who he claims to be.
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Actually, just fining the telcos up to $50k per call they let through a day or two after being notified about a scam source does work nicely. I have had two of these calls in the last 22 years. I also had one domestic spam call and could read in the press a few days later that the call-center was raided by police and the bosses were all behind bars.
The problem in the US is that politics does not care and the voter is asleep at the wheel.
Say what? (Score:2)
...t"hat have put India under the threat to be termed as the hub of such illegal call centres"
Who doesn't consider the to be the hub? I almost pity a legitimate call center person with an Indian accent as s/he is automatically presumed to be a scammer.
Older but weirdly wiser? (Score:2)
Look, the corollary of the statement "most of the victims of these fraud calls from Indian phishing gangs were elderly US citizens above the age of 60 years who lost over $3 billion..." when the total losses are $10 billion, is that a minority of the people that lost money were not elderly, but they managed to lose $7 billion. So yeah, maybe it's easier to sucker an older person, but it sounds like it's more worth your time to try and sucker people younger than 60.
Re:Older but weirdly wiser? (Score:5, Informative)
The older folks have more money, generally speaking. The especially older also, in many cases, begin to develop dementia.
As a general rule of thumb, if anyone calls you claiming to be associated with a company you do business with and begins asking for information, end the call. Even if it's a REAL call, it doesn't matter. After that, go to your bills, paperwork, etc, and get a phone number for the company and call them yourself. If there really is an issue with your account, they will be glad you called to get it resolved.
I recently had some fraudulent charges show up on my debit card. The caller, who was probably legit, said they were fraud department of my bank and I had some charges on my account but first they wanted identifying information, last four of social. I told the person, politely, I'm going to just stop this call right here and go call the number on the back of my check and directly talk to the bank. They were fine with that and as it turned out, I did indeed have 3 fraud charges all on one day that I had not noticed, two days later.
So even though it was a real call, it spooked me that someone was calling me out of the blue from a number I didn't know and maybe I shouldn't be giving out information over the phone. It may of cost me a few minutes on hold, but I knew who I was talking to.
P.S. Also, do not take a number from the cold caller, because you do not know if it's legit. Only call a number from your paperwork or off the real website.
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My father was ripped off about $10k by phone scammers. We didn't know it at the time, but he had early-stage Alzheimer's. Sufferers often lose common-sense judgement. They had him use Target gift cards to transfer payments. Target is full of unhelpful assholes. Audit the bastards!
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I'm really sorry that happened to your father. That's absolutely horrible. Those kinds of criminals are the ones you want quartered, literally, for all to see because of the damage they do to everyone else. Sadly, your father was likely one of many. Once again, I'm really sorry to hear that.
Let this be a warning to everyone. Do not give information out over the phone to someone that called you unless you are positive you know who you are dealing with.
Poor education strikes again (Score:3)
I have gotten a number of these calls. Some of the scams are so laughably transparent that I have a hard time believing any functioning adult would fall for them. Yet they must, because these call centers keep getting funded.
I have been told that the IRS must get an immediate payment or a warrant will be issued for my arrest. Sometimes those calls are automated. Other times you get personal service.
Another was a guy who insisted he was an officer with the CBP (Customs Border Patrol) and also wanted me to do something urgent. I asked for his badge number and he rattled off some random string of digits immediately. I never found out what they wanted me to do because I hung up when I got another call.
Others like that. The government agency they represent changes but what is always the same is that there has to be an urgent payment.
It used to be they were careful to use American regional accents. I hear there are schools for that in India, intended for legit call center workers. But these days they just go ahead with whatever accent they happen to have. I guess they figured out for someone stupid enough to fall for the scam it doesn't make any difference.
But that's the real problem. We have a collection of people with $60B in savings to drain who don't even have enough basic awareness to understand how their government works. Or even have the slighted critical thinking skills. And going by the article they should be old enough to know better.
If the population were literate these call centers wouldn't get a dime.
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"It used to be they were careful to use American regional accents. I hear there are schools for that in India, intended for legit call center workers. But these days they just go ahead with whatever accent they happen to have. I guess they figured out for someone stupid enough to fall for the scam it doesn't make any difference."
Haha. I had one hang up on me when I asked "the manager" why he, the person who answered the phone initially, and all the people I could hear chattering in the background all had I
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My own particular counter-prank is to demand to be transferred to someone with proper English. I say this with my own thick Ukrainian accent, but the assholes don't get the joke :)
Yes, and if people had better locks, there would've been fewer thefts. You're blaming the victims here...
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We have a collection of people with $60B in savings to drain who don't even have enough basic awareness to understand how their government works.
To the people at the top, that means $60b is being wasted. No reason to let the poors have that kind of money... and so minimum wage never gets increased. It will only be wasted.
I am guessing they should be considering how a minimum wage worker should survive instead of thinking that the poors have $60n to waste.
real threat (Score:2)
Many of the call centre scam ops are protected (Score:2)
By either the local police or politicians in India.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] --- video by the glitter bomb guy. Mark Rober.
And thats not the only video.
Sure, they may close down some who are not paying enough for protection. Or maybe some scape goats.
But the big fishes will just restart in other cities in India, until India government actually pushes thru enforcement to make sure it stops.
Don't hold your breathe waiting for that to happen.
And people say (Score:3)
...we don't have a mental health problem in this country.
I'd say "stupidity" IS VERY MUCH a mental health problem.
Hacking a call center (Score:2)
https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/info-2021/international-tech-support-scam-exposed.html [aarp.org]
A decent idea (Score:3)
Unwanted calls in 2022 is simply harassment.
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Close, but not quite right. Rather, EVERY call should cost the caller 5c. The callee can push a button to whitelist the caller and save them 5c. Of course this only works if caller ID spoofing is made impossible, and that will never happen because "legitimate" callers (aka corporations) don't want you to know their actual phone number.
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Of course this only works if caller ID spoofing is made impossible, and that will never happen because "legitimate" callers (aka corporations) don't want you to know their actual phone number.
Right, so it sounds like this guy's idea is better/more possible.
We know, who they are... (Score:2)
We know, who these scammers are — and they aren't very sophisticated. There are videos on YouTube showing, how Americans took over their own cameras [youtube.com] and computers [youtube.com].
We know, their names and addresses — all uncovered by the regular Americans for fun and vlog-profits. If only our glorious law-enforcement weren't so busy chasing the non-existant "domestic terrorists" [foxnews.com], maybe, the actual criminals would've gotten a proper raid instead of glitter bombs [youtube.com].
Yeah, this should've been done by the Indians, but
Hardly suprising (Score:2)
Are the victims billionaires? (Score:2)
Several Americans lost a total of $10.2 billion in 2022 so far
American rich people sure are easy to be fooled.
Expel Indians (Score:2)
Expel Indians https://www.petition2congress.... [petition2congress.com]
Re:Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By ... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By ... (Score:5, Insightful)
The OP thinks $54 billion is some huge amount for a war. Guaranteed they won't say one word about the $1.7 trillion for the failed F-35 program.
Either that or they're a Republican and upset Zelensky hasn't rolled over for Putin like they have.
Re: Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By ... (Score:4, Insightful)
What makes you Republican is that you want to make the decisions, and not elected officials.
What makes you Republican is that you think you know better than experts.
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That's a flat-out lie too — Putin didn't dare, while Trump was in the White House. It was only under Trump, that Ukraine started getting real weapons — not just tents and sleeping bags Obama was sending. And it was Trump, who actually killed hundreds of Russians [businessinsider.com] — and their proxies in Syria — the only language Putin understands, mocking Obama's "red lines" (Democrat's press had to write articles to explain it all away. [theatlantic.com])
It also was
Re: Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By .. (Score:5, Informative)
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People never learn from history. This is the same mindset we had during WWII and we let Germany/Japan build up their forces and kill millions of people before we were forced to jump in. Thereâ(TM)s a reason weâ(TM)re involved now, Russia isnâ(TM)t going to stop at Ukraine.
The difference is that in 1935, France and the UK which were recovering from the same economic problems as the US and didn't have the money to build up military forces. They weren't in a position to do anything. The US was pretty much in the same state but had both antipathy towards getting involved overseas (especially regarding a war given how fresh memories of WWI were) and a large number of Fascist supporters (the UK had the same problem, see: British Union of Fascists) and to be fair, we didn't really
Re: Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By . (Score:2)
How well did European countries do after WWII? How well did the U.S. do? I think America has a proven winning strategy. We went from a notable nation to the THE global superpower. Meanwhile Europe experienced disintegrating imperial ambitions and the transfer of wealth to the U.S.
Re:Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Originally I was pissed off they killed the F22 production lines to create the F35 but I think overall it has turned out well.
It does have a serious range problem, though. In Europe and almost everywhere else it's ok but it is a terrible jet for the Pacific making it way too reliant on in-air refueling which paints a super giant target on our refueling fleet.
Knock down a bunch of impossible to hide sky gas stations and the F35s become nearly useless in a Pacific fight. The Chinese aren't stupid.
Re: Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By ... (Score:2)
Range is only a problem if you don't have bases or carriers. That's a diminishingly small part of the world for the U.S. and NATO. I don't know if there's explicit doctrine to back it up, but this seems like a rational part of the calculus.
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The F35 is a multirole fighter, it not an air superiority fighter or a long range strategic bomber. Those roles are left to the F22 (and in the future to the NGAD) and the B2 (and in the future to the B21). The F35 is meant to operate in a more tactical role, near the front lines, and is therefore a simpler and cheaper plane. And yes, the F35 is fairly cheap when you try and compare it with other planes covering the same mission profiles.
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Any war with China is likely to be fought around Taiwan. The US isn't likely to do full strategic bombing in China. If that happens, nuclear war will kill us all.
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Hmmm, I'm unclear on why the F35's range has anything to do with strategic bombing? It isn't anything remotely like a strategic bomber. It's actually pretty small when compared to the F22 and other more modern peers like the J20 and SU57 and those certainly aren't strategic bomber either.
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It's unlikely to do any bombing on mainland China, other than perhaps along the coast. The range of the F-35 is sufficient.
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The F35 isn't a bomber. Even compared to other assault / fighters it has a small weapons load out.
F22 is bigger
J20 is bigger
SU57 is bigger
And if you look at advanced 4th Gen like the F18, then the F18 truly dwarfs the F35 weapons load out.
I have come to respect and understand the F35 as it fits into the larger force structure but it's no bomber and its range still sucks for a pacific fight.
For air to air, it has limited flight time and therefore fight time. It has less ability to perform CAP. it just can
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China isn't a peer.
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China is absolutely a near peer in their region. 100% so. This fact can not be reasonably disputed.
If you have an interest in global military affairs, I'd suggest starting at the real clear defense news aggregation site and going from there.
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And near peer isn't a phrase I made up. I'm using the term exactly as the military planner and intelligence communities use it.
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China got the f22 deets, most likely reason for scrub
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That's a common lie/mis-/disinformation. The actual Russian military budget fluctuated just under $70 billion for the last 8 years [worldbank.org].
The $54 billion figure is a lie too — the amount of American military aid actually delivered — rather than "announced" or "promised" — so far this year is only about $10 billion [protectukrainenow.org]...
Re:Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By ... (Score:5, Interesting)
That's one way to look at it. Another is it's worth it to stop the barbarian Russian hordes from further invading and destroying other European countries.
Another way to look at the money spent is that the US and its allies are using the war as a real-world, non-simulated study of its weapons systems versus Russian weapons. This comparison and analysis is of immense value to Western militaries and weapons manufacturers, similar to the way in which the 1982 Lebanon War allowed the West to gauge its weapons versus Soviet weapons. $54 billion for this analysis is arguably a financial bargain.
Re: Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By ... (Score:2)
So... like an accountant rounding the numbers to hand wave immaterial expenses.
Re: Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By .. (Score:2)
For the U.S. Department of Defense, $113 B is not a lot of money. And much of that money hasn't made it to Ukraine so far. So yeah, if DOD accountants wanted to secretly fund the war in Ukraine a la Iran Contra, this is an amount that would be easily handwaved.
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Are you fucking kidding? The ENTIRE DOD budget for 2022 was 1600 billion and you think 113b of 1600b isn't a lot?
To spend on a stupid Asian land war of no strategic interest to us and none of our concern?
What -would- be a lot of money to you to spend on a stupid Asian land war of no strategic interest or concern to us?
And where do you think that money comes from? My taxes, which are substantial, and printing it which increases inflation which is essentially another tax.
Jfc....
Re: Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By .. (Score:2)
Again, most of that money hasn't made it to Ukraine. It's just earmarked. So the actual cost will come out of budgets over multiple years. In a week, that bottom divisor is going to jump a $trillion.
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Oh great so it's spread out over time that makes it like free! That's what my credit card company tells me, too. I can pay monthly and keep buying stuff! Yay!
Omg. So ridiculous. I'm not coming back to this thread with you. You're talking nonsense and have no understanding of the most basic elements of finance and budgeting, as well as inflation.
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That's funny, last time I checked it was Russia that declared war on Ukraine and the US isn't at war with anybody right now.
Maybe stop with your glue huffing.
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The US isn't at war with anybody right now
List of wars involving the United States [wikipedia.org] lists 3 ongoing conflicts:
1. American intervention in Yemen (2002-present)
2. Second U.S. Intervention in the Somali Civil War (2007-present)
3. American-led intervention in Syria (2014-present)
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The US involvement in those conflict can hardly be called us fighting a legitimate war. The amount of US military present in each of those countries is quite minimal unlike with Russia in Ukraine.
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The US isn't at war with anybody right now
List of wars involving the United States [wikipedia.org] lists 3 ongoing conflicts:
1. American intervention in Yemen (2002-present) 2. Second U.S. Intervention in the Somali Civil War (2007-present) 3. American-led intervention in Syria (2014-present)
So - the exact same thing as your country and the Ukraine?
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The US isn't at war with anybody right now
List of wars involving the United States lists 3 ongoing conflicts:
1. American intervention in Yemen (2002-present) 2. Second U.S. Intervention in the Somali Civil War (2007-present) 3. American-led intervention in Syria (2014-present)
So - the exact same thing as your country and the Ukraine?
That is bad argument. It seems that you are using "Ad hominem" fallacy to attack not the argument itself, but the person making it.
P.S. More than 100 volunteers from my country had enlisted to fight for Ukraine in Ukrainian Foreign Legion [wikipedia.org] against the Russian invasion.
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The US isn't at war with anybody right now
List of wars involving the United States lists 3 ongoing conflicts: 1. American intervention in Yemen (2002-present) 2. Second U.S. Intervention in the Somali Civil War (2007-present) 3. American-led intervention in Syria (2014-present)
So - the exact same thing as your country and the Ukraine?
That is bad argument. It seems that you are using "Ad hominem" fallacy to attack not the argument itself, but the person making it.
P.S. More than 100 volunteers from my country had enlisted to fight for Ukraine in Ukrainian Foreign Legion [wikipedia.org] against the Russian invasion.
"Your Country" is not ad hominem, it is directed as a country, that someone belongs to, not a person. The sender equated those with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, so I just took a guess that they might be a Russian operative.
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That's funny, last time I checked it was Russia that declared war on Ukraine and the US isn't at war with anybody right now.
Maybe stop with your glue huffing.
If I know my slashdot - It's always the USA.
Re: Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By ... (Score:2)
Russia is getting drones from Iran and economic subsidy from India.
No nation fights a war alone. This is still Russiv v Ukraine and Russia appears to populate their armed forces with cowards, morons, ald criminals.
Russia has a second rate military with nukes. They are not a real threat to anyone outside their immediate neighborhood. Like China, their projection is severely limited by geography and technology.
The only real threat is if everyone notices Russia's tiny, tiny projection and it causes them to go
Re:Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, the world should just sit by while Russia invades a free, democratic people in an attempt to yoke them to Putin's autocracy.
Get out of here Ivan, no one in the West wants you around anymore.
Re:Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By ... (Score:5, Informative)
If you think ukraine is free and democratic, I have a bridge to sell you.
I bet your bridge is as real as your critique of Ukraine down below.
Ukraine is home to neo-nazi azov batalion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ [wikipedia.org]... [wikipedia.org] , which even US congress declared neo-nazi.
Literally from your own fucking link
"In 2017, according to Foreign Affairs magazine, "After the union [with the National Guard], the government's first act was to root out two groups within Azov, foreign fighters and neo-Nazis, by vetting group members with background checks, observations during training, and a law requiring all fighters to accept Ukrainian citizenship. Fighters who did not pass this screening were offered the chance to join civilian volunteer corps to help the war effort; these corps assisted police, cleared snow (a crucial task in Ukraine), and even worked on a public radio."[66] According to Reuters, at this time, the unit worked to depoliticize itself: its far-right leadership left and founded the National Corps political party, which works with its associated activist organization, the Azov Civil Corps. The Patriot of Ukraine websites were shut down or put under restricted access.[67]"
So yes, when Russia first invaded in 2014 Ukraine did lean on the Neo Nazi Asimov Battalion because they were unprepared and desperate. Never the less the Asimov battalion as it was is no more. It should also be noted that since being separated the political wing has failed miserably in their elections not even getting a single seat in their legislative body.
Ukraine outlawed Orthodox Church https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ [wikipedia.org]... [wikipedia.org] as recently as this month.
Your link does not support your statement at all (Did you even read any of this shit you hack?). What you're referring to though is a right wing lie based on the fact that Zelensky is looking into ways of limiting specific Orthodox churches with links with Russia https://emerging-europe.com/ne... [emerging-europe.com]. You know, the country that's invading them.
and I mean really, use your fucking brain. Ukraine is mostly Orthodox, if Zelensky had banned the entire faith in the country his own people would be up in arms over it.
Ukraine is the most corrupt nation in europe https://www.theguardian.com/ne [theguardian.com]... [theguardian.com
So what? That doesnt mean that their last elections in 2019 werent widely considered to be free and fair. It also doesnt mean they dont deserve their own country.
The same corrupt government is stealing anything that is not nailed down and reselling it on the black market or inside of the country. https://moderndiplomacy.eu/202 [moderndiplomacy.eu]... [moderndiplomacy.eu] and https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/19 [cnn.com]... [cnn.com] and many more links if you care to look.
Wow, it's like you're reading off a list of Russian propaganda here. It is well known that Russia is posting false ads depicting Ukraine selling arms given to them https://www.bbc.com/news/world... [bbc.com]
And once again, use your fucking brain. We have the finest intelligence agencies in the world, if Ukraine was selling the weapons given to them in mass we'd know about it and the evidence would be in congress right now.
Ukraine removing statues of soviet era writers and scientists and even 19th century writers and poets. Pushkin's statue was vandalized in Odessa. He had nothing to do with this invasion and was just a poet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ [wikipedia.org]... [wikipedia.org] . This shows
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Thank you...
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Despite my multiple typos of all posts from the last few weeks I'm glad my one above got modded up so high. I'm probably just replying to a paid Russian shil with it but there are people actually believing this nonsense so it's important for folks to see how easily these arguments against Ukraine fall apart and this was most of them that I've seen all in one convenient place to debunk.
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Re: Americans Duped Into Losing $54 Billion By ... (Score:4, Informative)
Or 2.3 trillion on a lie in Iraq.
Vatnik shill detected (Score:3)
Russia helped kill, wound, maim etc every US casualty since WWII (if we count letting Poltava get lit up by the Luftwaffe etc, including some of WWII) in all our military operations, sometimes by direct intervention (SAM crews, ELINT shootdowns).
Taking it to the Russian existential enemy of democracy, the US and global freedom while aiding Ukrainian self-determination is a magnificent bargain and pocket change compared to GWOT besides being an economic boost to US manufacturing jobs and our involved allies.
Re:We need to be harsh with India (Score:5, Informative)
Indians steal American jobs on H1B, ...
You mean jobs offered to them by American companies looking to save a buck? Don't blame the workers, blame the companies too cheap to hire US workers and consumers who don't want to pay higher prices. The jobs foreigners are "stealing" are usually (a) jobs companies aren't offering to US workers, often because they're too expensive or (b) jobs US workers don't want, often because they don't pay enough or are too hard/demeaning (in general or for the pay offered). Fix "a" and/or "b" and there won't be an H1B program.
Re:We need to be harsh with India (Score:5, Interesting)
Stop the "US workers don't want" propaganda (Score:5, Interesting)
The jobs foreigners are "stealing" are usually (a) jobs companies aren't offering to US workers, often because they're too expensive or (b) jobs US workers don't want, often because they don't pay enough or are too hard/demeaning (in general or for the pay offered). Fix "a" and/or "b" and there won't be an H1B program.
There are no jobs Americans refuse because they're too hard. There are only jobs that don't pay enough to attract people. It's simply supply and demand and a stupid right-wing Chamber of Commerce anti-worker talking point for over a century. America has a shitty safety net. All Americans need a job or someone to support them. If a job goes unfilled, it's because the worker found a better job somewhere else. If your job opening is too grueling or shitty, raise the pay or make it less shitty until you have enough applicants. Anyone who says "Americans don't want" a job is full of shit and wanting to get cheap labor in defiance of the labor market. I'd love to hire people for a fraction of the market rate, but that's not happening. I'd love to buy a new house for $100, but that's not possible and not happening. Similarly, there are many companies who want to hire talented software engineers for 20k per year...it's not happening...not even in India. If you're not willing to offer competitive pay and working conditions, you can't say say "no one wants" your job...you just don't want to follow the market.
Stop saying "workers don't want" a job and say "employer doesn't want to pay market rates." Fuck anyone who says that Chamber of Commerce propaganda. Those jobs are unfilled because greedy business owners don't want to pay, not because workers are lazy or entitled...as your phrase implies.
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Just curious, honest question, is your spouse different from his/her family?
How did you meet?
They're just as useless where you're from (Score:2)
"There are no jobs Americans refuse because they're too hard." I am an immigrant. Married into a white American family. It is shocking to me how most of my American family members sit all day and watch TikTok videos. Before TikTok, they sat in front of TV after work all day. TikTok now allows them to do it during work. They have jobs that pay close to minimum wage. If they used 10% of their spare time to improve their job skills, they could really improve their lot. But this is the choice they refuse to make. Not all Americans are like this. TikTok zombies constantly trying to get their next dopamine fix. But too many are.
Fuck off with the lazy Americans anecdotes. America is one of the hardest-working countries in the world. You just married into a lazy family. I assure you that wherever the fuck you're from, there are just as many, probably more, lazy assholes. Great job, you're a big fish in a little pond. Move where I live and I assure you that you will find some of the best and brightest minds from all over the world. Your sense of superiority will be drowned quickly...good luck being the smartest person in the ro
Re: We need to be harsh with India (Score:2)
It's an easy fix. Just stop the H1-B program. It's run its useful course. It no longer is a way to import talent, but instead to import foreign subsidies to drive down wages. It serves no social good at this point.
There is absolutely no issue with finding qualified Americans. The issue is with companies who don't want to pay to train Americans. Take away the subsidized labor and that wealth will flow into domestic institutions like colleges and job training.
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It no longer is a way to import talent, but instead to import foreign subsidies to drive down wages.
Good points all around though I would argue that it was always more about the latter than former -- or if not driving down wages, at least avoiding paying the higher wages US employees would require (which drives down future wages).
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If your family is starving, and someone offers you a job what would you do? Second, how does cutting off immigration from India hurt India? Seems like it would hurt a few Indian individual less than .01% of their 1.4 Billion population at max while allowing the US economy to increase production at a lower cost.
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If your family is starving
The Indians involved in this are unlikely to be starving, for a simple reason: they speak English, which means that they grew up in middle class families.
Re: India is harmful to the world. (Score:2)
This is all insignificant and meaningless when contrasted with the harm they are doing to the noble game of cricket.
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Usually such anti-indian posts are written by Pakistanis as anonymous coward so I ignore it. But here is some analysis.
-- India buys much less oil/gas from Russia compared to EU, even in 2022, even after the war began.
-- $10 billion scam may sound big but let us check this too. Americans lost $40 billion plus in 2022 to scams. So Indian fraction is 1/4. India's population is 1/6. So it is about 50% higher than average but not by a huge factor.
-- But wait, India has the second largest English population in t
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Both India AND Pakistan have a problem with rape and all they do is accuse each other of having a worse problem without fixing the problem in either country. Both seem very concerned with silencing victims and fixing their country's image rather than saying "this sucks, we need to reduce this problem to zero, we need a culture wherein rape victims can come forward, be free of shame/stigma, and get justice." Never heard that from any Indian or Pakistani.
"It is also the most peaceful region in the world. Here
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Well, I was responding to the claim that Indians (including the Pakistanis, who are basically Indians) are incapable of conflict. Fact is that Indians killed each other. The date it happened doesn't matter, fact is that many Indians lost their ability to reason, gave in to dark emotions, and acted like animals at that point .. there is no denying it. How can a tiny island in Europe take over the whole continent of India if they weren't fighting each other? Plus I am sure India would have had its had in any