How Can You Transact Safely in Person with a Stranger from the Internet? (krebsonsecurity.com) 55
Attention, people giving money to strangers from the Internet. The Krebs on Security blog knows a way to make it safer.
"Nearly all U.S. states now have designated safe trading stations — mostly at local police departments — which ensure that all transactions are handled in plain view of both the authorities and security cameras." These safe trading places exist is because sometimes in-person transactions from the Internet don't end well for one or more parties involved. The website Craigslistkillers has catalogued news links for at least 132 murders linked to Craigslist transactions since 2015. Many of these killings involved high-priced items like automobiles and consumer electronics, where the prospective buyer apparently intended all along to kill the owner and steal the item offered for sale. Others were motivated simply by a desire to hurt people.
This is not to say that using Craigslist is uniquely risky or dangerous; I'm sure the vast majority of transactions generated by the site end amicably and without physical violence. And that probably holds true for all of Craigslist's competitors.
Still, the risk of a deal going badly when one meets total strangers from the Internet is not zero, and so it's only sensible to take a few simple precautions.
For example, choosing to transact at a designated safe place such as a police station dramatically reduces the likelihood that anyone wishing you harm would even show up.
Krebs points out there's a list maintained at SafeTradeStations.com, adding that "many police departments (but not all) are willing to check the serial number of an item for sale to make sure it's not known to be stolen property."
The site also advises meeting in well-lit and public places, during daylight hours — and bringing a friend.
"Nearly all U.S. states now have designated safe trading stations — mostly at local police departments — which ensure that all transactions are handled in plain view of both the authorities and security cameras." These safe trading places exist is because sometimes in-person transactions from the Internet don't end well for one or more parties involved. The website Craigslistkillers has catalogued news links for at least 132 murders linked to Craigslist transactions since 2015. Many of these killings involved high-priced items like automobiles and consumer electronics, where the prospective buyer apparently intended all along to kill the owner and steal the item offered for sale. Others were motivated simply by a desire to hurt people.
This is not to say that using Craigslist is uniquely risky or dangerous; I'm sure the vast majority of transactions generated by the site end amicably and without physical violence. And that probably holds true for all of Craigslist's competitors.
Still, the risk of a deal going badly when one meets total strangers from the Internet is not zero, and so it's only sensible to take a few simple precautions.
For example, choosing to transact at a designated safe place such as a police station dramatically reduces the likelihood that anyone wishing you harm would even show up.
Krebs points out there's a list maintained at SafeTradeStations.com, adding that "many police departments (but not all) are willing to check the serial number of an item for sale to make sure it's not known to be stolen property."
The site also advises meeting in well-lit and public places, during daylight hours — and bringing a friend.
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Actually, bringing a friend [ausa.org] is pretty good advice.
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You do know that you can order official looking badges off the Internet, don't you?
You do know that most people have no idea of what badges the LEOs use in their areas, right?
You have watched LEOs in TV shows, the movies, etc. who have official looking badges, haven't you?
You've seen reports of fake LEOs stopping people and robbing them?
You appear to think you are safe because "something can't be done" -- another "security through obsurity" scam.
Re:On to the next problem... (Score:4, Insightful)
If the safe trading stations are in police departments and staffed (partly) by uniformed police officers, faking them will be difficult.
Getting uniformed police officers to give a shit about your $400 collectible sneaker purchase, will be even more difficult.
I love how everyone assumes cops just hang around in police departments all day with nothing to do. A murder happening because an officer was too busy babysitting used shit sales in the parking lot, will not be left sitting to wallow in mere irony.
Re:On to the next problem... (Score:5, Informative)
its never been more clear than the last decade - that the police have no obligation to protect you. at all.
not protect. no serve. just clean up after the fact.
we need to teach this so that people have the true reality instead of some synthetic one the blue line likes to push.
they are not there for you. I dont think they ever really were, tbh.
unless you are a big business and then, you have your own rules. and thugs. but the thugs in blue dont work for me and you.
Re:On to the next problem... (Score:4, Interesting)
No, they hang around on the street harassing people because they have nothing better to do. Cops don't prevent crime, they ARE crime. The amount of civil forfeiture seizure in the USA is more than all the petty theft combined, and they don't even have to have a particularly good reason for it.
So yeah, maybe taking some of them off the street where they're shaking down normal citizens and putting them in rooms to make sure nobody gets hurt during a sale would legitimately make some people safer for once.
Re: On to the next problem... (Score:3)
I love how everyone assumes cops just hang around in police departments all day with nothing to do. A murder happening because an officer was too busy babysitting used shit sales in the parking lot, will not be left sitting to wallow in mere irony.
Why would a uniformed officer be in a position to prevent a murder? Oh you mean how they prevent most crimes in the vicinity just by generally being around right?
If only there was a way for the public to do unsafe transactions someplace the police were always generally around anyway.
Some kind of police depot thing where they do centralized police operations at and always maintain a presence... still working out the details.
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If only there was a way for the public to do unsafe transactions someplace the police were always generally around anyway.
There are plenty of safe places, proven over decades and tens of millions of transactions. People are looking at and for police to do more than provide a safe space, I can assure you. Soon, they'll be blaming cops for failing to prevent a con artist from ripping someone off with fake merchandise, all because they were "standing right there." Rest assured this is what a very greedy and ignorant public will assume.
Some kind of police depot thing where they do centralized police operations at and always maintain a presence... still working out the details.
Let me know how those "details" work out when you and every other citizen is forced to pay fo
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Fake safe trading stations. I will set up a fake trading station, both parties will show up, I rob them both. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Yeah, OK. Unless your "location" is on four wheels, you'll get about as far as "Lather" before you're in handcuffs.
Stop pretending robbed parties go home and celebrate their newfound victim status with a slice of Do-Nothing pie.
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I'm going to get a leap ahead and just make a fake safe trading station website. I'll take payment from criminals and real trading stations and allow them to advertise their services.
Huh? (Score:1, Troll)
Cherry-picking data is a good way to build a false narrative and incite fear in the small-minded. Come on it's been a known sophistry tactic ever since Trump decided to formed a government department to publicize illegal immigrant crimes. Statistics must always be in broad context. How many people were killed after they met someone in in real life? I'll bet 98% or more of homicides were of people who had first met offline.
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When I was a younger, radio dating was quite popular. The recommendations were simple. Meet in a very public well lit place. Donâ(TM)t go home with them on the first date. Really common sens
Dude, it's for Craiglist (Score:3)
And if it's weed you just go and buy it. Do the same thing for other drugs and problem solved. Our drug war is great at making it hard to vote. Not so much at keeping us safe.
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I'm not seeing how your examples apply to this story. Who would want to perform an illegal transaction in front of police cameras? There's a trust issue...
But I have thought a bit more on how a scammer could exploit the 'safe trading station'. Basically take advantage of the "safe" atmosphere to get more information about the target. You did introduce the example of a robbery, so here's one way it could work.
Criminal: "Boy, this place sure is far away. I came all the way from {foo}." [Of course {foo} has no
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"[G]iving money to strangers from the Internet". What could possibly go wrong?
Actually, I think this approach is pretty stupid. However you define the rules, the gamesters will look for ways to break them. I also worry about my potential for developing a criminal mind, but the first thought that comes to mind on this one is "Use this 'safe trading station' as a credibility-building mechanism" to take the edge off. First a harmless and "safe" transaction to remove the "stranger" tag and then go for the bigger crime later on.
"If you see something, say something" is a really stupid thing to say. We all see LOTS of "something" every day. Some percentage of the things we see involve strange, even suspicious, people, but giving money to them seems unlikely to help.
So here's my latest crazy solution approach: How about a TipPic app? Sends a picture of the suspicious whatever it is, lets you say what's wrong with this picture, and then they can look for patterns of actual crimes at the other end. Key the database to the phone numbers the photos come from? But of course the main pattern they will detect is people who are too suspicious and who send lots of photos...
For the censor trolls.
Parking (Score:1)
Parking is already shitty at many police stations. The idea won't scale without building more lots.
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Naturally you wouldn't want to consider the idea of having it in a part of town you can walk to. Pedestrians are the real criminals in this. Almost as bad as those too poor to run a car. They can't pay the cop-tax, so fuck them - let them eat lead.
This is fine for some people, but (Score:5, Funny)
I need to be able to do this without leaving my mom's basement!
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Maybe a safe transaction in person ... (Score:2)
But, as of this post anyway, the SafeTradeStations.com link in TFS is only HTTP
-- trying HTTPS gives an Error code: SEC_ERROR_REVOKED_CERTIFICATE
Oh irony, how I've missed you... :-)
Glad to hear about this possibility. (Score:4, Funny)
There's this Nigerian prince, and we have a business deal to conclude.
Stupid (Score:3)
This entire comment section is stupid. More than I've ever seen before.
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It's 2022... (Score:4, Interesting)
...except for the dumbest of the dumb, people have this figured out. This is another case of an author desperately trying to write an article by deadline.
There are a ton of places to go with surveillance (eg big box stores)...beyond that, it's a simple matter of not going someplace where you are alone. The people that struggle with this, have the same level of common sense as those that leave their car doors unlocked, or engine running while they "run into the store real quick".
or USENET, or newspaper classified ad, or ... (Score:1)
In other words, this isn't a new problem, and the solution isn't news to most people.
and bringing a friend (Score:2)
I'll finish that for you...
"who stands about 50 feet away, behind an engine block or something hard to penetrate and has a mass accelerator within easy reach."
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Correct.
Imma hazard a guess as to which states these 170 murders happen in.
Just use a bank (Score:5, Interesting)
I think I've found the problem : (Score:2)
That bit. Whether you're being frankly illegal (buying/ selling drugs/ other contraband), or just avoiding paying taxes, that bit about being in view of the authorities is the stinger.
Hell, I don't particularly want the cops to know when I'm fucking a whore - and that's neither illegal nor immoral.
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Oh, you object to business - well that's a position that can be argued. But make sure you keep your anonymity intact. MacCarthy would have had you in front of the House Committee on UnAmerican Activities for saying things like that in the past, and present day "Anonymous Coward" status does not guarantee
Er (Score:2)
Attention, people giving money to strangers from the Internet.
So basically, everyone? I don't personally know the folks at Amazon. ;)
132 dead in 5 years? Who fucking cares? (Score:2)
There were 461 dead from CV-19 on Thursday which is the last day there is data for in the chart for the US. [cdc.gov]Most people have long since stopped caring at all - if they ever did.
We were losing 3000/day in February, to put that in context, 2977 people were killed on 9/11. [wikipedia.org]
Re: 132 dead in 5 years? Who fucking cares? (Score:2)
And tens of thousand are critically injured and die in car accidents every year. Still not an excuse to let your guard down and not trust your gut instincts.
Re: 132 dead in 5 years? Who fucking cares? (Score:2)
You're probably more likely to die in a car crash on the way to the craigslist buy than to be killed by the person you're meeting.
Re: 132 dead in 5 years? Who fucking cares? (Score:2)
Usually it's the sellers who are the target but buyers have been targets too. Better safe than sorry. Too many psychopaths helped along with hard drugs these days.
Yes, It can be done safely... (Score:2)
I have met mostly normal looking people with normal goals (of buying and selling). I have met some strange looking people and some weird looking people. Some were grumpy; most were nice.
People with experience develop the ability to weed out the non-serious, the dangerous, and the pathological. It really isn't hard.
Meeting in public spaces works well. Many fast food restaurants provide power outl
There is danger in life (Score:4, Insightful)
Using visible surveilance (Score:2)
Set up several surveillance cameras on your house and have the buyer pull into the lower driveway where the license tags and other identifying features of their vehicle are visible. Have them come up near the house where their faces are clearly visible via the security cameras and remove any covid masks before even starting any negotiations. Keep everything in obvious view of the camera(s). Post a video surveillance sign in the yard even if you don't actually have one.
If you want to go even a step further
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Your first suggestion just makes it a bit more likely they'll be charged with murder after the fact, but does nothing to actually protect you.
Your second suggestion is ridiculous; concealed carry holders try very hard to not give signs that they're carrying; that's why it's called 'concealed.'
"Stranger Danger" (Score:2)
Applies to life after childhood too. These kinds of crimes hapoened back in the newspaper want ad days.
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Re: "Stranger Danger" (Score:2)
Don't forget, 9 out of 10 doctors recommend Winston. Smoke Winston for your health!
Statistics (Score:2)
How many "ripped off" transactions actually didn't pass the smell test?
Any number of things your brain "should just tell you" are ignored by the masses . . . assuming you use a basic amount of brain power, then what do the percentages look like then?