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Crime The Courts

Charter Told To Pay $7.3 Billion In Damages After Cable Installer Murders Grandmother (theregister.com) 231

Charter Communications must pay out $7 billion in damages after one of its Spectrum cable technicians robbed and killed an elderly woman, a jury decided Tuesday. The Register reports: Betty Thomas, 83, was stabbed to death by Roy Holden Jr in December 2019. He had dropped by her home in Irving, Texas, on a service call after she reported a problem with her internet-TV bundle, and returned the next day in his company uniform and van, inviting himself in and killing her using his Spectrum-issued gloves and utility knife. She was found dead by her family on her living room floor after she didn't show up to a Christmas and birthday party that night. Holden pleaded guilty to murder last year and was sentenced to life behind in bars.

Thomas' family sued Charter [PDF] in 2020 for negligence. It was alleged in testimony that Holden had complained to his bosses that he was penniless and desperate after a divorce. It was further alleged that he had stolen credit cards and checks from elderly Spectrum subscribers, and that the corporation turned a blind eye to a pattern of theft by its installers and technicians. During that civil trial it was also claimed Thomas' family was charged $58 for Holden's service call, and continued to be billed after their grandmother's brutal slaying to the point where her account was sent to collections.

The court heard how Holden was not working the day he killed Thomas, and went out to her home anyway to rob her. He was able to use his company keycard to access a Charter vehicle lot and drive off in one of its service vans even though he was off-duty. According to the family's legal team, while Holden was seemingly making repairs, he tried to steal one or more of her bank cards from her purse, and murdered her when he was caught in the act. He later went on a spending spree with her funds, it was claimed. "This was a shocking breach of faith by a company that sends workers inside millions of homes every year," said the one of family's trial lawyers Chris Hamilton, of Dallas-based Hamilton Wingo, in a statement.

According to the law firm, Holden lied about his employment history -- such as not revealing he had been previously fired -- which wasn't checked by Charter when it hired him and would have been one of many red flags against him. During the civil trial, the court heard how Holden would break down crying at work, at one point was convinced he was a former Dallas Cowboys football player, suffered from insomnia, and was probably sleeping overnight in his Spectrum van. It was further claimed the cable giant tried to force the lawsuit into closed-door arbitration where the results would have been secret and damages limited.

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Charter Told To Pay $7.3 Billion In Damages After Cable Installer Murders Grandmother

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  • pointless (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bloodhawk ( 813939 ) on Thursday July 28, 2022 @05:06AM (#62740686)
    What a pointless amount awarded by the Jury. All that does is guarentee the judge will award a different amount or guarentee it will be won on appeal.
    • by Entrope ( 68843 )

      Yeah, how does anybody get $350M in compensatory damages, with the guy who actually killed the grandmother only 10% responsible for that?

      And 20x punitive damages is going to get overturned on appeal too.

      • by mysidia ( 191772 )

        with the guy who actually killed the grandmother only 10% responsible for that?

        The damages are about the consequences of Charter's actions. And the reason they'll ask the bulk of the damages from the company is that an Individual has a limited ability pay. If they person who committed the murder was not penniless, and therefore, basically Judgement-proof, they'd probably just sue him for the $350+ Million and have a rather simpler case there.

        • with the guy who actually killed the grandmother only 10% responsible for that?

          The damages are about the consequences of Charter's actions. And the reason they'll ask the bulk of the damages from the company is that an Individual has a limited ability pay. If they person who committed the murder was not penniless, and therefore, basically Judgement-proof, they'd probably just sue him for the $350+ Million and have a rather simpler case there.

          I have lots of friends who are lawyers and as such I know more about how the law really works than most non-lawyers. No way does this verdict stand. What will happen is that Charter will appeal because it's flat out insane and they'll tie it up in courts forever. After many years, the family will get so tired of it being tied up in courts with no resolution in sight that all parties will reach a confidential agreement and end the case. Charter will not admit to any wrongdoing and blame the employee

    • In June, a Dallas County Court jury awarded the family $357 million in compensatory damages of which the US cable giant has to pay 90 percent. This week, the panel set punitive damages at $7 billion for a total of more than $7.3 billion.

      The 357 million is enough, I wonder how they came up with the 7 billion in punitive damages.

      Honestly, the US scares the shit out of me sometimes. I have a (IMHO) rational fear that I could end up being sued for something and made responsible for millions in punitive damages. Or worse, sent to jail for stepping (or driving?) on some overly sensitive american toes..
      https://www.thelocal.com/20120... [thelocal.com]

      I know all stories have two sides, but a traffic incident turns into an aggravated assault with a deadly weapon (

      • Or worse, sent to jail for stepping (or driving?) on some overly sensitive american toes.

        There's many examples of bad US "justice", but Larsgard isn't one of them, he's a nutcase who tried to injure, potentially kill, as many people as he could with his car:

        In the Larsgard case, his actions were intentional and extremely dangerous. He screamed at a woman, âoeIâ(TM)ll show you the wrong way, Iâ(TM)ll kill you.â Then he threw his car in reverse, aiming at this bystander and three kids under age 6. When a curb got in his way, he came at them again, blowing out a tire and jumping the sidewalk. He screeched to a stop about an inch from this group. Minutes later, Larsgard was punched in the face â" by the father of the children he had nearly run down. âoeIâ(TM)ll kill you,â Larsgard screamed. He drove after the man off the road into a vacant lot. There, he hit some concrete hard enough to rip off six feet of car molding.

        That was from the prosecutor in the case.

      • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        Just be sure you don't have a Kinder Surprise in your bag.

    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      by splutty ( 43475 )

      And this is why juries are generally considered a terrible idea in almost all countries.

      • by nomadic ( 141991 )

        What are you talking about?

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      • by decep ( 137319 )

        And this is why juries are generally considered a terrible idea in almost all countries.

        Et tu, comrade?

        Maybe juries are not as great of an idea in civil cases where there is a lot more he said/she said, but it is absolutely critical in criminal cases.

        It does not matter what the 2A people say, juries are our first line of defense against tyranny.

        • Yes all the civil law countries sure are a bunch tyrannies. Just the other day the Dutch executed 500 political dissidents.

          What a fucking joke.

    • The whole notion of statutory damages is ridiculous, and only serves to push people to sue companies for silly things and ridiculus amounts, in hope of winning the courtroom jackpot or getting a fat settlement. Allow actual damages only, including a generous payout for mental anguish, but that'd be in the 6 figure range, not 10. Anything on top of that ought to be a fine.

      But yeah, never going to happen. The USA are a country for lawyers, by lawyers.
      • by splutty ( 43475 )

        You don't need statutory damages from lawsuits if you have actual laws dealing with the sort of bullshit companies regularly dish out.

        Example: The McDonald's coffee case. The statutory damages there were awarded because McDonald's broke the law. In a normal, functioning country, they would've been fined by the government agency responsible for enforcing that law, and potentially lose their business license, not by some random person sueing them.

        • by howardjp ( 5458 )

          There were no statutory damages awarded in the McDonald's case.

        • You don't need statutory damages from lawsuits if you have actual laws dealing with the sort of bullshit companies regularly dish out.

          Example: The McDonald's coffee case. The statutory damages there were awarded because McDonald's broke the law. In a normal, functioning country, they would've been fined by the government agency responsible for enforcing that law, and potentially lose their business license, not by some random person sueing them.

          What laws were broken in the McDonalds coffee case?

    • charter just needs say worker was an 1099er and that you need to sue the worker to get any thing.

      • by jd ( 1658 )

        I'm not sure US fines are enforceable anyway. The company can probably just ignore the demands if it wants to.

    • by howardjp ( 5458 )

      The point is to make everyone think twice before letting it happen again. Is $7B enough? I do not know. But I will be more impressed when police departments start getting judgments against them this large.

      • The point is to make everyone think twice before letting it happen again. Is $7B enough? I do not know.

        You think money is free or something?

        But I will be more impressed when police departments start getting judgments against them this large.

        Um, you know who pays for police, right?

    • by Kisai ( 213879 )

      Honestly, I don't see that amount being paid out, more likely something like 20m, if it ever gets to that.

      Usually any large award, no matter what the trial was about, gets knocked down because it's become a kind of bartering tactic in getting the company to admit to guilt and agree to changes, eventually getting reduced to "company admits no wrongdoing or negligence in causing the murder, but was found guilty of ignoring claims about theft from visits by cable installers."

      Like don't get me wrong, these idio

  • Now do Lyft (Score:4, Interesting)

    by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Thursday July 28, 2022 @05:14AM (#62740694)

    According to the Delaware State Police, at some point during the ride, the Lyft driver and the passengers had a "disagreement," causing the Lyft driver to end the ride "in the middle of the southbound left lane" [cnn.com] of the Coastal Highway and demanded that all six passengers get out of the vehicle.

    At the same time, a 2016 Toyota Corolla was traveling southbound and fatally hit Wolf, say police in a press release.

    The driver of the Corolla, 27, tried to change lanes to avoid the stopped Lyft vehicle but ultimately did not see Wolf, who "had just exited the right rear passenger seat and was standing in the roadway," police said

    • According to the Delaware State Police, at some point during the ride, the Lyft driver and the passengers had a "disagreement," causing the Lyft driver to end the ride "in the middle of the southbound left lane" [cnn.com] of the Coastal Highway and demanded that all six passengers get out of the vehicle.

      At the same time, a 2016 Toyota Corolla was traveling southbound and fatally hit Wolf, say police in a press release.

      The driver of the Corolla, 27, tried to change lanes to avoid the stopped Lyft vehicle but ultimately did not see Wolf, who "had just exited the right rear passenger seat and was standing in the roadway," police said

      The Lyft defense will be: The driver is not our employee. Lyft provides a matching service between someone who wants a ride ("The Passenger") and a driver offering a ride ("The Driver"). Lyft has no responsibility for what happens between the driver and passenger.

    • Re:Now do Lyft (Score:4, Interesting)

      by JackieBrown ( 987087 ) on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:27AM (#62741562)

      This part is odd

      According to the law firm, Holden lied about his employment history -- such as not revealing he had been previously fired -- which wasn't checked by Charter when it hired him and would have been one of many red flags against him.

      If he didn't reveal it, how would that had been caught by Charter? My understanding is that jobs are not allowed to state they fired an employee. At the very least, thats been the rule everywhere I worked at.

      "Holden had complained to his bosses that he was penniless and desperate after a divorce" should not have led to termination. I've been desperate for money and penniless before and have never commiting these types of crimes.

      Now if it had been reported (and verified) that he was stealing from customers, they definetly should have fired him for that.

      They should also have better secuirty of their vechiles since they don't seem to be assigned to people for use off-hours.

  • Nope (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dcw3 ( 649211 ) on Thursday July 28, 2022 @05:36AM (#62740710) Journal

    Never gonna happen, and it shouldn't.

    Disclaimer: Fuck Charter, and I used to be a shareholder.

    Every company has shitty employees, and bears some responsibility for them. But when one of them goes Postal, does that mean we should bankrupt the company, and put thousands of other employees out on the streets looking for new jobs? The only people who benefit from these kind of awards are the lawyers who take a huge cut of it.

    • by mysidia ( 191772 )

      Every company has shitty employees, and bears some responsibility for them. But when one of them goes Postal, does that mean we should bankrupt the company, and put thousands ...

      Yes the company should pay. No it won't bankrupt the company.. The Jury set the damages, but they don't have the final say. Exorbitant damage awards like this by a Jury will get knocked down. They are almost certainly going to be challenged in post-trial motions and either get reduced to a reasonable sum Or be taken up on a

    • Re:Nope (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Deal In One ( 6459326 ) on Thursday July 28, 2022 @06:22AM (#62740776)

      I think in this case it's cos the company ignored all sorts of warning signs displayed by it's employee and still send out a potentially unstable employee to customer's homes.

      Not to mention, not having done basic checks prior to employing someone - I don't know of a single company which doesn't check at the least with the previous employer as to how the employee was.

      And in the end, still charging a customer murdered by it's own staff for services and sending it to collections (I think alot of ISPs in US try to make it difficult to stop services?)? That may have been the cherry on the top.

      Of cos the $7B seems high, but am sure it will probably end up as 100s of millions at the least, and now as a bonus, some bad PR.

      • Not to mention, not having done basic checks prior to employing someone - I don't know of a single company which doesn't check at the least with the previous employer as to how the employee was.

        California employer here. We're not legally allowed to say much about our ex-employees. We can safely confirm dates of hire and termination, but saying anything else can be risky, so very little if anything else is shared. Most of us are willing to share positives, that we (will) miss the ex-employee... but even that is limited as it can be turned on us.

        • Interesting.

          Can you at least state if the ex-employee was terminated or quit on their own?

          • Interesting.

            Can you at least state if the ex-employee was terminated or quit on their own?

            Technically, CA employers can say anything truthful we want to say "without malice". However, statements can come back to bite employers in the form of defamation suits, for which there are a wealth of lawyers ready to take on another case. Ergo, many CA employers will limit comments to start/end dates. If we know the other employer we might be more open, but again... truthful.
            As an employer, I find myself being able to ask questions of references such as "this job requires steady focus on a wealth of tasks

            • Or just one question that kind of sums up everything, is an indisputable fact, and doesn't really give the employee anything to argue in court: "Is this person eligible for rehire with your company?"

              • Or just one question that kind of sums up everything, is an indisputable fact, and doesn't really give the employee anything to argue in court: "Is this person eligible for rehire with your company?"

                Effective but dicey, depending upon the circumstances.

        • by orzetto ( 545509 )

          Which is why references have their own jargon, where what you don't say weighs a lot more than what you say. You can't be compelled to say good things about your former employees, so if something is missing from the reference it usually means it would have been negative.

          "We wish our former employee good luck in their future endeavours" is code for "he'll need it, he's a hack".

          • "We wish our former employee good luck in their future endeavours" is code for "he'll need it, he's a hack".

            Perhaps, but plenty of employers have resorted to writing the same for every terminated employee order to avoid discrimination.

      • When my good friend's mother died of lung cancer, they (charter/spectrum) kept billing her for 2 years after.
    • lol .. if he was using a company car, and they tried to force the case into arbitration, it really looks like he murdered that lady as a representative of charter.

    • by jd ( 1658 )

      In the case of those cable companies that are basically scammers anyway? Sure.

    • Every company has shitty employees, and bears some responsibility for them. But when one of them goes Postal, does that mean we should bankrupt the company, and put thousands of other employees out on the streets looking for new jobs?

      You missed the point. The were found negligent in ignoring a pattern of theft by its employees.

  • by carnivore302 ( 708545 ) on Thursday July 28, 2022 @05:46AM (#62740726) Journal

    I mean come on. You can't blame the company for this. The murderer is at responsible and only him.

    • by znrt ( 2424692 )

      the guy already got prison for life for the murder.

      this is a separate case, where the victim's family is suing the company for negligence of which there seems to be ample evidence. if you employ people which you know is unstable and in distress and who has already a history of stealing to your customers, and you keep sending them into people's houses on your behalf then that's just reckless. if the company had observed due diligence that woman would still be alive.

      • You can find people who are not desperate that work shitty jobs? Where do you find them?

        • You can find people who don't steal from old ladies who work shitty jobs.
        • by znrt ( 2424692 )

          well, not all of them have a record of stealing from your customers. those you better get rid of.

          of course there is a much deeper problem here, but while i can be empathic towards the victim, and even towards the perpetrator, it's much harder with that board of directors that obviously don't give a flying fck about anything or anyone. maybe i could if they did.

    • And probably should read the article.

      It was alleged in testimony that Holden had complained to his bosses that he was penniless and desperate after a divorce. It was further alleged that he had stolen credit cards and checks from elderly Spectrum subscribers, and that the corporation turned a blind eye to a pattern of theft by its installers and technicians. During that civil trial it was also claimed Thomas' family was charged $58 for Holden's service call, and continued to be billed after their grandmoth

  • Company guilt? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by enriquevagu ( 1026480 ) on Thursday July 28, 2022 @05:46AM (#62740728)

    I completely fail to see how the company has any guilt -- at all -- of the crimes committed by one of their workers, when being out of his work hours and without following any mandate from the company, quite the opposite. Even if he managed to use the company resources, violating the orders from the company (since he was not entitled to use them off hours).

    I understand that there may be some difference between an outsider impersonating a cable technician (who does not work for the company) and an actual cable technician who knows the victim because of his work. However, is the company guilty of every offense made by their employees even when off hours? Did they need to send an explicit order saying "Do not use the work uniform off hours to get into our clients house and rob them and, oh, by the way, never kill them"? Seriously?

    • Re: Company guilt? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by guruevi ( 827432 ) on Thursday July 28, 2022 @06:00AM (#62740742)

      Itâ(TM)s contributory negligence. They knew he was stealing from customers, unstable and gave him access that allowed him to impersonate though he wasnâ(TM)t on duty and didnâ(TM)t do anything about it.

      The kicker about sending them the bill for the service of murdering grandma, thatâ(TM)s an entire different level of incompetence.

    • by Nugoo ( 1794744 )

      You may have missed this line from the summary:

      It was further alleged that he had stolen credit cards and checks from elderly Spectrum subscribers, and that the corporation turned a blind eye to a pattern of theft by its installers and technicians.

      There's plenty to debate over the amount of the damages, but if the allegations hold up in court (which I guess they did), this seems like a pretty clear case of negligence (at best).

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      I completely fail to see how the company has any guilt

      I believe the problem is that the company supplied him with the murder weapon. Should have given him a rubber-knife instead!

    • Did they need to send an explicit order saying "Do not use the work uniform off hours to get into our clients house and rob them and, oh, by the way, never kill them"? Seriously?

      Well, this is the way qualified immunity works for police officers... so maybe?

    • Re:Company guilt? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by swillden ( 191260 ) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:42AM (#62741804) Journal

      I completely fail to see how the company has any guilt -- at all -- of the crimes committed by one of their workers, when being out of his work hours and without following any mandate from the company, quite the opposite.

      This is the reason that bonding [chron.com] of employees was invented and has long been a standard practice for companies that send employees to work in customer homes. The idea is that the bonding agency does appropriate background checks, and that the employee has a strong motivation to keep their nose clean to avoid having their bond revoked. The other side is that if the employee does do something bad, the bonding company is liable, rather than the employer.

      I think a good argument could be made that Charter et al should be using bonded employees for this sort of work. It would significantly increase their labor costs, of course, but would reduce the probability of this sort of problem (and lesser problems, like theft), and would protect them from liability.

  • hopeless/sick people, and sometimes the mentally ill, lash out at society with school shootings and shit like this. No one gave a fuck about the soon-to-be homeless cable guy. Popular to red state beliefs (born, raised, live in one), people don't just go quietly die in a ditch - they'll rob your entitled greedy ass first.

    • That's why you don't trust that the person sent randomly to your home by some company is safe to be around. It's just a bad idea. What makes grandma "entitled" and "greedy" by the way? The fact that she had something at the end of her life and Roy was a turd who managed to screw his up? To hell with Roy. I live IN Texas and I'm shocked the S.O.B. isn't on death row waiting to die. He should be.

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        That's why you don't trust that the person sent randomly to your home by some company is safe to be around. It's just a bad idea.

        Usually, this will not e a problem at all. The rare cases were it is make national news and hence get blown all out of proportion. Driving a car is probably less safe per time spent than letting in a technician from a known company.

        As to the death-penalty, that just makes you a cave-man. It is known to be pure revenge and to not have any deterring value. But that is primitives for you: Instead of looking at possible solutions people like you look how they can make the overall situation even worse by applyin

      • I have to ask, what purpose does capital punishment serve? I mean, it obviously failed as a deterrent, so what's the big deal?

        • I spent the first decade of my working life in law enforcement and I recall clearly the explanation of capital punishment my class was given in the police academy. We were asked who thought it was cheaper than life in prison (don't have to pay for room and board for the convicted). Almost everyone raised their hand and were were told that it was not. Due to the cost of multiple appeals it was actually cheaper to keep a person in prison for life than it was to try and execute one in Texas. Then we were asked

          • It's expensive, doesn't act as a deterrent, and is irreversible. I can see why some people object to the death penalty in principle, but I'm not one of them. My feelings are closer to yours. However, given the high cost and lack of deterrent, I'd rather use that money to fund law additional law enforcement.
          • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

            That's a nice way of saying it's vengeance.

      • The likely solution to this is that ISPs will have to start sending teams of two people on all service calls. They won't be partners but randomly rotated to work together so that there is always a witness and also somebody to deescalate any conflicts.
      • by noodler ( 724788 )

        I live IN Texas

        Honestly, that explains a lot.

    • And this is the reason why "socialist" Europe has comparably fewer, if not no, crimes like this. Even those that have nothing here have something to lose: Their dole and liberty.

      Prison is actually worse than being broke here. If you have nothing, you still have a roof above your head and something to eat. Both not exactly something I'd want to trade for, but you're at least still free to decide over your own life. That's a pretty powerful motivator to not mug someone for the maybe 20 bucks he has in his poc

    • No one gave a fuck about the soon-to-be homeless cable guy.

      Citation, please.

  • ... that juries often have. The jury-system may have worked at one time in the past, but that time is long over.

  • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Thursday July 28, 2022 @07:00AM (#62740870)

    Comcast Execs noted that, at worst, their customers will only get emotionally traumatized and/or severely maimed by Comcast Customer Service. Ironically, a recent survey noted that people would still prefer Charter to Comcast.

  • Will be a horror flick.

  • The media reporting should be enough to bolt and lock every door in America to CableGuy in branded shirt, van and tools in-hand.

    Well done American justice. Restitution that customers who have subscribed to any one of the legal cartel cable’s can commiserate with the company behavior, treatment and foot dragging experienced all the way to court.

    Movie script AI written in process coming to a cable channel near you. Oh irony!

  • Did anyone on that jury even have a clue just how much money 7 billion is? Ok negligence, but 7 billion is absolutely ridiculous.
  • ...damned if you don't.

    I'm no fan of Charter/Spectrum, but this case deserves more than a superficial look.

    First, if a company starts getting very involved in firing employees who may have emotional issues, where does it stop? Sure, this guy seemed to be on the edge of a nervous breakdown, but that's in hindsight. Lots of employees are dealing with difficult circumstances outside of work. If any of that surfaces at work, do you fire them?

    If you don't, there will be armies of lawyers coming after you afte

  • Don't get fired or it could turn you into a murderer. https://yro.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]

  • Those cable bills will kill you. And so will the recurring Roys!

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