Texts and Web Searches Have Been Used to Prosecute Women for Abortions (msn.com) 391
Privacy advocates warn internet activity could someday be used to prosecute women who sought abortions. But it's already happened, reports the Washington Post.
In a handful of cases over the years, "American prosecutors have used text messages and online research as evidence against women facing criminal charges related to the end of their pregnancies." Despite mounting concerns that the intricate web of data collected by fertility apps, tech companies and data brokers might be used to prove a violation of abortion restrictions, in practice, police and prosecutors have turned to more easily accessible data — gleaned from text messages and search history on phones and computers. These digital records of ordinary lives are sometimes turned over voluntarily or obtained with a warrant, and have provided a gold mine for law enforcement. "The reality is, we do absolutely everything on our phones these days," said Emma Roth, a staff attorney at the National Advocates for Pregnant Women. "There are many, many ways in which law enforcement can find out about somebody's journey to seek an abortion through digital surveillance...."
Women have been punished for terminating pregnancy for years. Between 2000 and 2021, more than 60 cases in the United States involved someone being investigated, arrested or charged for allegedly ending their own pregnancy or assisting someone else, according to an analysis by If/When/How, a reproductive justice nonprofit. If/When/How estimates the number of cases may be much higher, because it is difficult to access court records in many counties throughout the country.
A number of those cases have hinged on text messages, search history and other forms of digital evidence.
In 2015 an Indiana woman received a sentence of 20 years in prison based partly on text messages she'd sent, according to the article (though that conviction was overturned).
It's provoked concern in countries around the world, and an activist group helping women travel to countries with less restrictive laws tells the Post that they now use encrypted messaging apps like Signal and VPNs to minimize records of their web searches.
In a handful of cases over the years, "American prosecutors have used text messages and online research as evidence against women facing criminal charges related to the end of their pregnancies." Despite mounting concerns that the intricate web of data collected by fertility apps, tech companies and data brokers might be used to prove a violation of abortion restrictions, in practice, police and prosecutors have turned to more easily accessible data — gleaned from text messages and search history on phones and computers. These digital records of ordinary lives are sometimes turned over voluntarily or obtained with a warrant, and have provided a gold mine for law enforcement. "The reality is, we do absolutely everything on our phones these days," said Emma Roth, a staff attorney at the National Advocates for Pregnant Women. "There are many, many ways in which law enforcement can find out about somebody's journey to seek an abortion through digital surveillance...."
Women have been punished for terminating pregnancy for years. Between 2000 and 2021, more than 60 cases in the United States involved someone being investigated, arrested or charged for allegedly ending their own pregnancy or assisting someone else, according to an analysis by If/When/How, a reproductive justice nonprofit. If/When/How estimates the number of cases may be much higher, because it is difficult to access court records in many counties throughout the country.
A number of those cases have hinged on text messages, search history and other forms of digital evidence.
In 2015 an Indiana woman received a sentence of 20 years in prison based partly on text messages she'd sent, according to the article (though that conviction was overturned).
It's provoked concern in countries around the world, and an activist group helping women travel to countries with less restrictive laws tells the Post that they now use encrypted messaging apps like Signal and VPNs to minimize records of their web searches.
need to fight it all the way & don't take any (Score:2)
need to fight it all the way & don't take any deal just on the grounds of the 1st and that unlike pot it's not banned at the fed level.
The real agenda (Score:5, Insightful)
If every major, credible poll ever taken is to be believed, a substantial majority of the U.S. favors the right to abortions albeit with some stipulations. It is only a small minority that believe it should be outlawed 100% the way this is being forced on us now.
Because of the quirky nature of our electoral system and the mindless/insane yet effective nature of the right wing, we are being ruled by a minority of religious extremists who think God is on their side.
This isn't about protecting children, unborn or otherwise. It is all about the power to punish women who have sex in a way they don't approve. They don't care who has to die to satisfy their lust for power. They envy what the Taliban has.
Anyone who believes that they will be happy now that they got what they want is an idiot. They are just getting started.
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Don't forget the added side-effect of producing more humans to join your religion. Always good to have more kids, just ask the Catholics.
Re:The real agenda (Score:5, Insightful)
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Early abortion wasn't banned by the Church until 1869, when it was decided that ensoulment happened at fertilization. Perhaps there's an element of punishing women in some people's motivation, but I think mainly it really does stem from a genuine belief that a fertilized egg is a human being.
Re:The real agenda (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem with that notion is you can't at conception know how many souls are being created. If you can't know that then it can't happen at that point in time. I would further note for the preceding two millennium life began with the first breath and the Roman Catholic church will still to this day not do a burial for a still born child.
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Re:The real agenda (Score:5, Informative)
If every major, credible poll ever taken is to be believed, a substantial majority of the U.S. favors the right to abortions albeit with some stipulations. It is only a small minority that believe it should be outlawed 100% the way this is being forced on us now.
If that's actually true, then why do so many pro-life legislators keep taking over state legislatures?
It's a strange combination of the way US primaries work in that they are dominated by a loud minority and billiionaires with an agenda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] ... and gerrymandering: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Now stop exposing your ignorance in public with silly questions.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Data privacy matters (Score:5, Insightful)
This is one reason why data privacy matters. Laws change under your feet by authoritarian government, and records of things that used to be legal can now be used to persecute you.
Re:Data privacy matters (Score:5, Insightful)
The rivers of blood were stopped when abortion was made legal. The number of women who die from backalley abortions, or in childbirth, or murdered by the men who impregnated them but who don't want them to have their child drops sharply when access to abortion is guaranteed.
If your ideas about preventing abortion were superior, you wouldn't have to use force to enact them. The right way to prevent abortion is to prevent unwanted pregnancies, but your team opposes that as well because that is emphatically not their goal. Instead, they want more soldiers and factory workers they can enslave literally or figuratively.
You're not crusaders. You're slavers. You want women and their unintentional offspring to be your slaves, and refuse to carve out any reasonable exceptions. Requiring a victim of rape to carry a child to term is permitting a rapist to choose the host for his seed. You're as loathsome as the eponymous enemies in Aliens.
Re:Data privacy matters (Score:5, Interesting)
You're not crusaders. You're slavers.
Today on Wikipedia the featured article is about Truman adding the pro-civil rights platform; Apparently, a whole lot of Southern Democrats then stepped away from the Democratic Party.
It is these people that Nixon got then into the Republican party.
Look at the facts, it wasn't easy, but in the years in between civil rights got better.
So, yes. They are slavers. They are people (is that a good word for them) who just want to be shitty to other people. And religion is just a pretence, a rationalisation of their shitty behaviour.
Why is everyone talking about religion... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why is everyone talking about religion... (Score:4, Informative)
Salient detail. The reason privacy laws in Germany (and most of the rest of the EU) are so strict is because of exactly this.
During Hitler's reign, the government used records on people, supported by IBM, to filter out all the jews.
At this point privacy in the US isn't a slippery slope anymore, it's a pretty steep cliff.
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For example similar shit happened in Romania under Nicolae Ceauescu's neo-Stalinism. Abortion was outlawed, contraception was outlawed, gynecologists regularly invading the privacy of women was mandated. So much for women enjoying equal rights under "Communism". Not having children was also taxed, giving further incentive to have children.
All while the state used a lot or means to spy on people through their disprop
Your next Teals will be a horse carriage (Score:2)
Just like the GOP conservatives wanted.
Down with all progress made over the last 150 years.
While you can enjoy your ride, your wife will be in the house cooking your meal.
Doesn't it sound wonderful?
And it perfectly fits the green ideology of the Democrats.
Only somehow we need to sell them that slavery thing again.
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As long as that horse & carriage have a decent spell checker, it might be an improvement.
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As long as that horse & carriage have a decent spell checker, it might be an improvement.
Why would a horse need a spell checker?
Now they understand (Score:5, Insightful)
Abortion discussion in the USA (Score:3)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
And that nicely shows the problem (Score:3)
When the state turns criminal, they will be using anything and everything against its citizens. Hence privacy and IT security actually matter.
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Informative)
“The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.”
Methodist Pastor David Barnhart
Re: Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:2)
The only pro-choice argument that matters is the one of bodily autonomy. But it assumes that everyone agrees women should have the choice over what they do with their own body, which isn't the case.
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I think the best pro-choice argument is that it's minds that define people, not bodies (e.g. Siamese/conjoint twins are two people, despite having one body, because they have two minds), and a mind doesn't begin to exist until connections start to form in the cerebral cortex, after 20 weeks gestation (18 weeks of pregnancy).
Re: Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Insightful)
It's amazing how the "personal responsibility" crowd don't think they should go to prison for criminal negligence if they infect someone with a deadly disease when they intentionally eschew basic precautions.
You want license to act without consequence while happily oppressing others.
Re: Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:3)
Re: Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Informative)
go speak to immigrants and try convincing them how ready access to abortion is a good thing. Most would be horrified
It depends on immigrants origin. If they come from, and are, Catholic, or come from/are a different branch but still heavily Catholic-derived/influenced, then yes, since there's a massive cultural influence tracking back centuries that begins teaching them, based on Aristotle's ideas, the notion that human life begins at conception. By the time they're teens and adults this counterintuitive notion became second nature and feels like it's a self-evident truth.
If they come from other places without that massive level of cultural shaping, then perceptions vary a lot. For example, had they come from, to pick a close enough point of reference, Colonial America, the idea a fetus is a person before quickening (the moment a woman first feels the fetus quicking inside her) would sound absurd. Or, to pick two still culturally related references, had they came from Ancient Greece, or from Ancient Israel, it'd sound absurd to consider any unborn fetus as a person, since a soul (literally "a breathing") is required for personhood, and that only comes into the being the first time they inspire air.
Many places others than Christian (and Islamic) acultured ones still hold those beliefs, and similar ones. So taking Christian ones as reference isn't really, as these all come pre-biased.
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Explain how local cultural understanding can occur without any religious of scientific influence.
I'm not sure what the OP meant, but I can try answering.
A third source would be natural selection. The cultures we see are those that survived and outcompeted other cultures by setting rules that make them more resilient against enemies, or by setting rules that promote growth explosion, or both. Religious and scientific influences are particular cases of those, since many times those rules are justified and rationalized afterwards in religious terms, less frequently, scientific (and pseudo-scientific) ones
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Why not just make it cheaper to have children instead of this shit?
How about you adopt a few if you're so concerned about them?
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Are the people who want to ban abortions willing to take financial responsibility for each and every child born? That would only be sensible.
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Insightful)
I've personally asked a few. None of them are willing, of course. Common responses have been some variation of "I have my own kids to worry about" or "I can't have a kid because ..."
Their hypocrisy shouldn't surprise you.
Of course, the possibility of a survivable delivery into life filled with poverty, drugs, and abuse is one of the 'better' outcomes. We're going to see a lot of dead women and girls in the near future.
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Someone's got to pay. You volunteering?
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Ahh yes, because abortion is all about cost. It's not about potential unwanted babies as a result of rape. It's not about potential medical issues leading to horrendous life of a baby, unviable pregnancy carrying risks, or even the potential death of a mother.
Just cost. /s
Now since you clearly don't have the slightest fucking clue about pregnancy do everyone a favour and never talk about the topic again. EVER.
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The cost of giving birth and of raising a child, physically, socially, and fiscally, dominate the decision.
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Informative)
you are mistaken. Texas's law (SB8) does not have an exception for rape. I haven't looked at other states.
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Interesting)
you are mistaken. Texas's law (SB8) does not have an exception for rape.
An exception for rape seems sensible but is a terrible idea because it encourages false accusations.
It is also inconsistent. If you believe abortion is killing a baby, then why should a baby be killed just because Dad is a criminal?
Disclaimer: I am radically pro-choice. Abortion on-demand should be available to any woman without limitation.
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:4, Insightful)
It is also inconsistent. If you believe abortion is killing a baby, then why should a baby be killed just because Dad is a criminal?
All these pro life states better be getting rid of the death penalty then. Like the old saying goes if men could get pregnant you'd have abortion clinics on every corner.
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Like the old saying goes if men could get pregnant you'd have abortion clinics on every corner.
I hope someone thinks about writing this on a sign in one of the pro-choice protests, because that's really the problem at its core - men passing laws to restrict freedoms for women.
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Insightful)
the bitch amy barrett is a female and she's fully into the whole woman-as-a-slave-to-men thing. remember, she's in that special religious cult, even more extreme than what most would call 'too far'.
there are a LOT of women who vote against their own best interests.
its one reason I think religion is the #1 evil in the world.
I've never believed it more than I do now, in fact. we SEE the effects of it. hard to ignore, now.
Re: Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:3)
there are a LOT of women who vote against their own best interests.
If you really want to stop bat shit crazy rulings like Dobbs v Jackson, maybe stop dictating to others what their best interests should be. One newscast which really stuck with me had a working class religious woman saying "I understand that conservative economic policy will hurt me financially, but how can I in good conscience support the deaths of millions of babies just so I can get better Healthcare and tax breaks?"
While I do believe propaganda is driving the values of many conservatives in the US, thos
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Insightful)
Also where do you draw the line here? Do female legislators not have any say in legislation that restricts freedoms for men? Can black legislators vote on anything that affects white regions?
If lawmakers can say that a 13 year old is mature enough to be forced to give birth, 13 year olds are mature enough to determine their lawmakers.
Re: Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Insightful)
Ahh, but that's the neat part. They won't because they were forced to give birth after being raped. Now they'll have to subsist off the government which then allows Republicans to claim these women are welfare queens and demonize them even more.
The plan is coming together.
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Insightful)
All these pro life states
Please stop calling them pro-life. They are pro-birth. They don't give a fuck about life, not the quality of life, not the potential for serious medical complications potentially ending the life of the mother in an unviable pregnancy.
If people were pro-life they would support abortion given how an unwanted / unviable pregnancy can not only destroy someone's life, but potentially literally end it.
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This is not true of all of them. There are some people against abortion and against contraception who do try to help the poor and help save lives. Their efforts are sometimes counter-productive: Christopher Hitchens published scathing analyses of how Mother Theresa's rejection of birth control doomed millions of infants to grinding poverty and even death.
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Bullshit. Show me how many of these so-called pro-life have adopted anyone. Or, for that matter, have supported Medicare for All. Or fought to raise taxes for better public schools. Or made *sure* that real sex-ed was in schools.
Or were pushing gun control, and were against the death penalty.
No, their entire lives are *lies*.
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Insightful)
“They’re not pro-life. You know what they are? They’re anti-woman. Simple as it gets, anti-woman. They don’t like them. They don’t like women. They believe a woman’s primary role is to function as a brood mare for the state.”
--George Carlin
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>A team gets to pick its own name whether or not it checks out literally
And no one needs to call them by the name they pick, especially if it is egregiously incorrect. "The Super Good Always Right Team" is my team name now respect it! I am Super Good Always Right!(tm)
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Forget sensible, it's humane (Score:3)
An exception for rape seems sensible but is a terrible idea because it encourages false accusations.
It's not sensible it's just humane. It would be monstrous to force a woman who has been raped to carry her rapist's child to term. The priority has to be to reduce the harm that the criminal has caused and if the victim wants an abortion they absolutely must have the right to one. If you regard it as killing a baby then think of that baby as another victim of the father's crime.
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Someone posted on Twitter about that 10 year old girl forced to go out of state to get an abortion because she was raped. They said "this isn't Iran, this is the US."
Actually in Iran abortion is legal in cases of rape or where the mother's life is in danger. Some US states are actually further to the right than an Islamic theocratic state.
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Fetuses are not infants.
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Really? Are you on board with Peter Singer then?
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The rape exception from the pro-life guys has always stuck me as dishonest. Either they think it's killing an innocent or not; the crimes of the father should be irrelevant.
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Pro-lifer's aren't giving anything up, they can live their life in any manner they want. The only "side" being forced to give something up is the women's side, and it's the pro-lifers who demand that women have less rights than a dead body. The amount of misery they inflict on other people is astounding, and they think they do good?
The easiest way to stop unwanted pregnancies is to snip very man. If they want to procreate, they have to show that they are in a stable relationship, mentally healthy and have a
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It is also inconsistent. If you believe abortion is killing a baby, then why should a baby be killed just because Dad is a criminal?
Here's an alternate view: Self defense against unwanted and serious assault. Pregnancy isn't a walk in the park. It is a long and painful medical procedure which exacts a huge toll on the body. It is painful, and risky.
In the legal system we have carve outs for self defense against attacks. Hell in Texas you can in some circumstances legitimately kill someone in self defense for *suspecting* they may harm you. How about we give women the right to not be assaulted from within by an unwanted parasite growing
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the awful irony of all the "abortion only permitted in the event that the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother" laws.
Literally every pregnancy has the potential to kill the mother, and/or the baby. Forcing a women to give birth, for any reason, is monstrous.
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It's inconsistent if you consider abortion killing, but not if you consider abortion (generally) neglect of a duty of care, and that no such duty exists in the case of rape.
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The bible. Women are worth 30 shekels.
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Interesting)
If we take that book as a foundation, it's trivial: Get the husband to a-ok the abortion by saying it ain't his child and have a priest do it.
(Numbers 5:11–28 for those that want to look it up)
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Nothing else in Deuteronomy 24 is taken serious, why of all the passages exactly that one? Want to see some other zingers from that chapter?
6: Do not take a pair of millstones—not even the upper one—as security for a debt, because that would be taking a person’s livelihood as security.
Yeah, that's something we take serious. Don't take someone's ability to earn a living from them as collateral. Good one, try that with your bank!
10-13: When you make a loan of any kind to your neighbor, do not go into their house to get what is offered to you as a pledge. Stay outside and let the neighbor to whom you are making the loan bring the pledge out to you. If the neighbor is poor, do not go to sleep with their pledge in your possession. Return their cloak by sunset so that your neighbor may sleep in it. Then they will thank you, and it will be regarded as a righteous act in the sight of the Lord your God.
Yeah... right. Try that next time the repo department comes knocking.
14-15Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. Pay them their wages each day before sunset, because they are poor and are counting on it. Otherwise they may cry to the Lord against you, and you will be guilty of sin.
I'm sure they don't mean Mexicans. I mean, there are no Mexicans in the bible, right?
It never fails to amaze me how bible thumpers manage to put a lot of emph
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Informative)
It never fails to amaze me how bible thumpers manage to put a lot of emphasis on the parts they like but curiously never bother reading the parts that would point out the beams in their eyes...
That's why the Catholics like to tell you what to think about the bible, and for a long time strenuously opposed most people reading it themselves (or even learning to read at all.) And lo! The six justices voting for jebus, and our president who refuses to mount an opposition to them, are specifically all Catholics.
There's no pope in the bible. In fact, there's a whole lot in there about how you don't need a priest or a church to have a relationship with god. There's also a whole bunch about how you should give away your wealth to the poor, which the Vatican is literally the opposite of.
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False and a widely repeated and reported falsehood at that. Governor Abbott himself claimed this thinking he was pandering to base but it isn't actually true. Read the text of the bill.
Not only is there an exception for rape but there is a broad exception for any 'medical emergency.'
https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB8/id/2395961
Sec. 171.208. CIVIL LIABILITY FOR VIOLATION OR AIDING OR
ABETTING VIOLATION.
"(j) Notwithstanding any other law, a civil action under this
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Informative)
The rape exception simply prohibits the rapist from collecting the bounty. It doesn't prohibit someone else from suing someone pregnant from rape.
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Better Ways to Solve Demographic Problems (Score:5, Insightful)
I see Google is now automatically deleting location data that shows visits to abortion clinics in response to laws criminalizing them, and criminalizing women and girls who travel to other states to seek an abortion.
I'm not sure how well it will work, a mysterious hole in location data is suspicious but also doesn't provide any evidence beyond the circumstantial.
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> I'm pretty sure in the case of rape abortion is permitted anywhere
This is wrong https://www.newscientist.com/a... [newscientist.com]
Also this has being doing the rounds recently, so surprised you haven't heard of it https://www.independent.co.uk/... [independent.co.uk] (short version, I'm not sure your claim of women not wanting to take responsibility applies to the 10 year old rape victim who had to cross state lines to get an abortion!)
Then there's the cases where the pregnancy will result in the death of the mother, which are getting muc
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No form of contraception is 100%. (Unless you count abstinence, which isn't practical.)
It's not really a feminist agenda to have control over your own body. It's a basic human right, surely. If you are pro-life and anti-abortion, fine: don't have one. But you don't have the right to control another person's body.
And the (American) raped 10-year old having to visit another state for a termination suggest it's probably not as accessible as you make out. She shouldn't be the story: her attacker should be.
This
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How dare they spend time investigating something as inconsequential as A COUP TO OVERTURN DEMOCRACY?
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the fact that feminists, the most powerful group of bigots around today, want abortion to be legal makes me lean the other way.
Even most feminists want some restrictions on abortions.
Only 20% of Americans believe that abortion on demand should be available without any restrictions.
The anti-abortion sentiment is even stronger in Europe. The law in Dobbs v Jackson that overturned RvW banned abortion after 15 weeks. Most EU members ban abortions earlier than that. E.g.: Germany has more restrictive abortion laws than Mississippi. One EU country bans abortion completely, even to save the life of the mother.
Abortion in Europe [wikipedia.org]
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Even most feminists want some restrictions on abortions.
Only 20% of Americans believe that abortion on demand should be available without any restrictions.
The anti-abortion sentiment is even stronger in Europe
You have made three statements. Please back them with facts. The wiki link makes no mention of anti abortion sentiment.
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So about statement 3: I'm afraid it's true at least for some countries.
Abortion is officially illegal in Germany [wikipedia.org], although there is an exception in the law that makes it OK in practice. Medical doctors are not allowed to mention they practice abortions, and the process to get one is convoluted and time-consuming.
Abortion was 100% forbidden until 2018 in the Republic of Ireland [wikipedia.org], even in the case of rape, life-risking pregnancy, etc. That's probably what the parent mentions, and I didn't know myself they ease
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That's probably what the parent mentions
Nope. I am aware that Ireland recently liberalized their abortion law.
I was referring to Malta, an EU member where abortion is illegal in all cases.
Abortion in Malta [wikipedia.org]
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One EU country bans abortion completely, even to save the life of the mother.
Which country? The Vatican?
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Poland
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Poland
Nope. Poland allows abortions for rape and incest.
Only Malta has a total ban.
VC is not a member of the EU, and VC's laws are moot since no one would seek an abortion there anyway.
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It's a bit more complicated than that in Europe. While technically an automatic right to an abortion might only be available in the first 12 weeks, to pick an example, in practice the law in many countries allows for abortions later on medical grounds. Those grounds can include mental health, and a very liberal interpretation of that law allows for termination on almost any grounds including socioeconomic.
It could still be better but abortion is widely available here. Also most European countries have decen
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As a European I always had the opposite impression that the anti-abortion sentiment is stronger in USA: constant debates about abortion laws in USA after every major election, cutting funding of Planned Parenthood and protests to the door of abortions clinics. These things are concerning to Europeans, and I was even taught in school as example of the peculiarities of the US political system (classes about history of the world). In Europe, people don't expect regular protests and don't expect a change in rul
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You're not being honest [pewresearch.org]
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You're not being honest [pewresearch.org]
There is nothing in your link that contradicts anything I wrote.
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>Unfortunately no one person gets their own set of laws
Nonsense. We can make laws for ourselves all we want as long as they don't step on the state's legal domain.
For instance I have a personal law - Don't eat peanuts. They taste like vomit. I don't break that law.
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If you can't, that's still not a failure of democracy
The two party system. That's the killer. And your words come off as incredibly uneducated when you realize that a particular group is working overtime to ensure that there can never be any other parties. Link [usnews.com].
Unfortunately no one person gets their own set of laws
Well fucking eh my friend. Come on down to Tennessee and let them know your feelings about them getting to close the door on there ever being any kind of change. Because if you've got your head so far up your ass that you don't see that the two parties of the US are killing democracy, might as well
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The act of protest exists to exactly complain about law and its enforcement. Not all laws are just; and not all enforcement is reasonable. By your logic those wanting to stop legal slavery should just have shut up too.
Unfortunately no one person gets their own set of laws.
Surely, the ultimate democracy is down to the individual. A lack of democracy, which is exactly what this is, is the state controlling an individual's action and the control over their body where it's not necessary, just, or reasonable.
And these very same laws - as enforced - also cover in som
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secular: denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have ->no religious- or spiritual basis.
Re:It's the law, in those states (Score:5, Insightful)
My mistake. Scratch that, Catholic majority who shares many of the same ideas as the taliban.
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If you don't like your state's policies, then convince more people to vote for change.
It won't work because they also ruled gerrymandering as legal. You'll need a supermajority to get anything other than evangelical representation.
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"Established law"? You mean like Dredd Scott v Sandford?
Re: It's the law, in those states (Score:2)
No, we had established penumbras. Indeed, the entirety of BoR incorporating through due process, and thus the entire doctrine of substantive due process even coming into existence in the first place, is because assholes like you in black robes are unwilling to overturn the Slaughterhouse case and enforce the 14th properly.
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I must take issue with "their god doesn’t approve". Has anyone actually asked God about this? The various versions of the Bible do not count for squat. Anyone with a brief introduction to how those books were created knows they were merely Man's work.
Let's pass a bill in Congress posing the question and that the answer should result in flaming red letters in the atmosphere. None of this "He spoke to me in my heart" bullshit. We want a clear, unequivocal answer that all can see.
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Or you and your partner(s) work out a contraception regimen.
If you don't, it's your fault.
You know how I can tell you grew up in a privileged, insular, middle class home?
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You seem to be one of those "all life in any form is sacred"-persons.
All life is sacred, which is why safe and legal access to abortion is so important.
I really don't think these people understand the consequences.
Re:Keep your fucking legs shut. (Score:5, Informative)
The consequences are fairly simple. Abortions will happen, just under different circumstances. In German countries, people who got the euphemistic moniker "Engelmacher" (quite literally translated to "angel maker") were quite normal. Back when abortions were illegal. And, as in the very dark and cynical song of the "old Engelmacherin" by Gerd Bronner, "if her tools weren't quite antiseptic, she made not one angel, she made two" ("Ihre Kundinnen die waren niemals skeptisch, Sie blieben ihr ein ganzes Leben treu! Und woa ihr Werkzeig einmal nicht ganz antiseptisch, Dann machte sie statt einem Engerl zwei!").
And that is what will happen. People will die.
Or you get some abortion pills. If you're rich, you get it from your doctor. If you're poor, you get it from your dealer.
Nothing will change.
Except money. That will change hands.
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Abortion isn't illegal in Afghanistan. The law is based on Sharia, which is considerably more permissive than laws based on evangelical / reactionary Catholic theology.
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Congratulations on your next child!
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Indeed. And if there are restrictions it is always because of pandering to christian-democratic parties.
And the Poles need to start living in the 21st century, instead of between the two world wars.
Re:When is NATO going to intervene in US (Score:5, Informative)
That is not "heavily restricted". You seem to be clueless as to how pregnancy works. The question is not the number of weeks, the question is whether it is enough time to notice, to make a decision and get it done. 12 weeks is. Sure, a few weeks more would in some cases be better, but this is a minor thing. "Heavily restricted" is a whole different thing.
And no, Germany does not "ban" the procedure. You probably do not understand how German law works. A better term would be to say the procedure is legally tolerated in Germany (given the time limit). Incidentally, the time limit goes out the window in Germany if there is danger to the woman. Hence it is perfectly fine for an MD to announce they are offering it. There were restrictions on giving more info but they were just removed a few weeks back and anybody prosecuted under the old rules was rehabilitated.
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Virtual Reality = the American Christian Taliban envision as being virtuous just before the cram it down everyone's throat.