Farm Equipment Dealers Block 'Right to Repair' Provision in North Carolina (newsobserver.com) 61
North Carolina's largest newspaper, Raleigh's News & Observer newspaper, reports that "In the face of stiff opposition from farm equipment companies and dealers, North Carolina state senators on Tuesday walked back a provision that would have widened access to the repair of farming equipment."
The so-called "right to repair" provision was included in the Farm Act of 2022, Senate Bill 762, which was discussed Tuesday in the Senate's Agriculture, Energy and Environment Committee. As introduced, the bill would have required manufacturers of farming equipment that relies on digital components to make diagnostic equipment and parts available at "fair and reasonable terms." Representatives of national farm equipment trade groups and North Carolina equipment dealers opposed the bill. Allowing repairs outside of authorized shops, they argued, could damage equipment, pose a risk of injury, and make it possible for farming equipment to violate the Clean Air Act.
After hearing from seven people, Sen. Brent Jackson, a Sampson County Republican, replaced the right to repair provision with language calling on the General Assembly's Agricultural and Forestry Awareness Study Commission to evaluate whether further action is necessary.
More from North Carolina TV station WRAL: Manufacturers and their licensed dealerships counter that they spend millions of dollars stocking parts and training field technicians to service equipment safely and within the parameters of federal laws like the Clean Air Act. More than a dozen dealers and representatives lined up to speak against the provision in the state Senate agriculture committee Tuesday... [Right-to-repair] supporters were far outnumbered by opponents, who warned that giving consumers access to embedded software would allow unsafe or illegal modifications to the equipment, from emissions compliance to safety shutoffs.
Philip Brooks, a dealer from Monroe, said his service techs receive extensive training. "A simple common rail diesel system with a line broken loose with a wrench under pressure can kill a man. We need to be careful of all these things," he told the committee.
Brian Jennings, a farm equipment dealer from Elizabeth City, testified: "I do not support the attacks — and I call them attacks — on our business. We are contracted dealers. We spend a lot of money to be dealers."
After hearing from seven people, Sen. Brent Jackson, a Sampson County Republican, replaced the right to repair provision with language calling on the General Assembly's Agricultural and Forestry Awareness Study Commission to evaluate whether further action is necessary.
More from North Carolina TV station WRAL: Manufacturers and their licensed dealerships counter that they spend millions of dollars stocking parts and training field technicians to service equipment safely and within the parameters of federal laws like the Clean Air Act. More than a dozen dealers and representatives lined up to speak against the provision in the state Senate agriculture committee Tuesday... [Right-to-repair] supporters were far outnumbered by opponents, who warned that giving consumers access to embedded software would allow unsafe or illegal modifications to the equipment, from emissions compliance to safety shutoffs.
Philip Brooks, a dealer from Monroe, said his service techs receive extensive training. "A simple common rail diesel system with a line broken loose with a wrench under pressure can kill a man. We need to be careful of all these things," he told the committee.
Brian Jennings, a farm equipment dealer from Elizabeth City, testified: "I do not support the attacks — and I call them attacks — on our business. We are contracted dealers. We spend a lot of money to be dealers."
This is a real problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
Not sure about the distances involved in Nth Carolina, but here in australia we have farms that are literally many kilometers in size (Mostly cattle stations, which can be 100km+ in size, but theres some gobsmackingly large grain farms too though none quite hit the astonishing sizes of the cattle stations.)
In these places the nearest local town can be a 200-300km drive away, and chances are the farm dealership aint there. Getting a harvester repaired can take weeks, and if parts need to be sent over from the US, even longer, and having these out of action for that long can be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost production. It would be cheaper to just have a guy on staff who knows how to fix these things, with a full kit of replacement parts for all the major failure modes likely to happen. But no. Have to get a guy from John Deere to fly in interstate, do the repair, possibly having to put him up in a hotel for a few weeks while he waits for repairs.
Its an intolerable situation.
Re:This is a real problem. (Score:5, Funny)
Guess that means not buying from one of the companies with built-in vendor lock-in is the economically sensible move.
Re: (Score:3)
What happens when all the companies switch to vendor lock in?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Hopefully people will finally realize that the system is broken and rigged.
Ok, who am I kidding, everyone's busy buying cheap Chinese crap. Oh wait, we can't do that anymore either. Well, maybe people will finally wake up from the consumer daze.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Farmers getting hacked firmware from Ukraine?
At least, that option shows up in forums from time to time. Probably illegal, but in this case I call it justified.
Re: This is a real problem. (Score:1)
If there is market demand, then someone will spring up and provide the service.
Re:This is a real problem. (Score:4, Insightful)
What needs to happen is a revolution in farm equipment [civileats.com] like FOSS in computer software. These dealers want to shit on the customer and they consider any effort to crawl out from under their pile of shit to be an attack on their business, literally, like the fuckface in the article. Why the strong language, besides firing for effect? Because farmers have a long and proud tradition of maintaining their own equipment, and he's attacking that trait, then hypocritically gaslighting by claiming he's the one under attack. "Brian Jennings, a farm equipment dealer from Elizabeth City", is a spectacular pile of shit.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
The dealers are another set of manufacturers victims with their margins shaved until the income from their side of the repair calls is lifeblood.
Everyone thinks they're a victim, but the dealers have willfully aided this oppression by selling this equipment. They did it to themselves, they helped do it to the farmers, now they want to be mad at the farmers for trying to survive. The dealer is just a middleman leech, he adds nothing of value. The customers could get fucked over by JD just as easily without him.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: This is a real problem. (Score:2)
Don't get me wrong, I support right to repair for ALL purchased products. That doesn't mean I lack empathy for people whose livelihood is about to lost and are fighting for it. Especially when the dealerships and the thousands of people about to hit unemployment have a hell of a lot less than the farmers.a
I lack empathy for leeches losing their jobs.
Re: This is a real problem. (Score:1)
Re:This is a real problem. (Score:4, Interesting)
What companies? Who do you actually think is a John Deere competitor that has a distribution network for parts and repairs outside of the US?
Thats the thing, John Deere doesnt have the lock in because of shitty DRM. It has a lock in, because there aren't alternatives to them. Not really.
Catepillar make some stuff. But guess what? They do the exact same thing.
Which more or less leaves AGCO. But they really dont have the same ecosystem as JD or Cat, and I a lot of the farmers we work with seem leary of them for reasons I dont quite understand (Brand loyalty probably. They know JD are good well built american machines. They just rage about the losses they take over repair issues. But like Stubborn Oxen, farmers dont like change much.)
Re:This is a real problem. (Score:4, Interesting)
John Deere doesn't have such a hold over the market here in Australia. Massey-Fergusson and New Holland are far more popular. When I was more involved with dairy farms a bit over 20 years ago, the farmers used to make fun of John Deere for being poorly designed, using too much fuel, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Might be the case with dairy. Thats an industry I dont have a lot of familiarity with (Though we've started some projects in that field recently.)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure if there isn't anything Deere makes the CaseIH doesn't have an equivalent for, so the eco-system is a little deeper. I'm not a farmer, but I am seeing a lot more Challengers and Versatile in the fields in the thumb of Michigan.
Re:This is a real problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
It would be cheaper to just have a guy on staff who knows how to fix these things, with a full kit of replacement parts for all the major failure modes likely to happen.
The argument is that that guy on staff does not know his business and that if he does have access to the internals of the machine he can also make the equipment non-compliant to regulations.
IMHO these are all bullshit arguments to continue the vendor lock-in and I am on your side, but the government thinks differently than you and me.
Re: (Score:2)
equipment non-compliant to regulations
I agree that it's a bullshit argument...unless the manufacturers can be made liable if the equipment becomes non-compliant, due to tampering by a 3rd party? (supposedly they are required to have anti-tamper provisions)
But, it's an excellent example of the government legislating a problem into existence...and now people have to entrust them to legislate the problem out of existence.
Re: (Score:3)
but the government is bribed to think differently than you and me.
Fixed that for you.
Re: (Score:1)
Just reform the concept of a corporation which does not make them responsible for the hardware they produce after someone agrees to assume that responsibility by just opening the internals, then passes responsibility back to that corporation when they again close the internals. Then all of this will be over.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
the government thinks differently than you and me.
That's because the government is staffed almost entirely by arts grads, and the idea of anyone rolling up their sleeves and repairing anything horrifies them. While they accept that it is still necessary to make things, that's OK as long as it is done on the opposite side of the world, and by magic as Apple tells them it's done.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
what country are YOU talking about?
in the US, those in power are almost always lawyers and businessmen. they are practically never 'thinkers' like science or engineering folks.
they dont like doing real work but they also dont like doing ANY work. they exist on bribes.
but you know that, right?
Re: (Score:1)
Are you sure it's "the government" ?
After hearing from seven people, Sen. Brent Jackson, a Sampson County Republican, replaced the right to repair provision with language calling on the General Assembly’s Agricultural and Forestry Awareness Study Commission to evaluate whether further action is necessary.
Emphasis mine.
The NC State senate is controlled by the Republicans by a large margin. So it's not "the government", it's the Republicans. Remember that Republicans are not for the free market, they
Re: (Score:2)
That's seven people that showed up, had compelling sounding arguments, seem to know what they are talking about, etc.
If 20,000 farmers showed up as well, things would have gone much, much differently. Nay, 100 - even a few dozen - would have made a huge difference and a big impression.
Re: (Score:2)
The argument is that that guy on staff does not know his business and that if he does have access to the internals of the machine he can also make the equipment non-compliant to regulations. IMHO these are all bullshit arguments to continue the vendor lock-in and I am on your side, but the government thinks differently than you and me.
Does the government "think differently" because equipment might be rendered "non-compliant to regulations"? Or is that just an excuse for caving in to corporations that lobby the gov, help to fund election campaigns, and maybe even make backroom deals with the press?
Stealership B.S. (Score:2)
Yep. Those stealerships are just full of BS arguments.
"We invested lots of money to have the knowledge and tools" -> Yeah, then use those to be competitive in repair, instead of trying to block competition, you dickheads....
Re:This is a real problem., who just finished off (Score:2)
That said one we reason we donâ(TM)t have right to repair at the consumer level is these large operations are co-opting it for industrial scale machines. When I was do industrial stuff, we had half million dollar machines with service contracts. And, yes, the technicians had to f
Re: This is a real problem. (Score:1)
No. Capitalism is about smart allocation of capital nd competition in the marketplace. The problem here, is a monopoly on repairs to the detriment of the consumers. If you onæy have one choice, it will be expensive and slow. Just like in the communist countries.
Re: (Score:1)
The situation in the US is quite similar. Its absolutely maddening.
Right to be extorted (Score:2)
and with every manufacturer being in a cartel with all other manufacturers, you don't have any choice but to accept this kind of extortion.
USA! The greatest country in the world! Or rather the entire galaxy! USA!
Nothing special... (Score:5, Insightful)
A simple common rail diesel system with a line broken loose with a wrench under pressure can kill a man.
This is no different than the common rail diesel engines in consumer light trucks (pickups, etc)...you know plenty of "average" mechanics work on those...and they're not dying left and right. He's just spreading FUD.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Philip Brooks, a dealer from Monroe, said his service techs receive extensive training. "A simple common rail diesel system with a line broken loose with a wrench under pressure can kill a man. We need to be careful of all these things,"
Says the farm equipment dealer in a country where an 18 years old can buy an assault rifle and commit a mass murder.
Sound like backward priorities in the USA; where potential profit loss can be more a concern than people lives.
Re: Nothing special... (Score:1)
Interesting, but when I was working in Europe, Diesel techs required special certificates and permits to work commercially. Simple tools werenâ(TM)t available when I was trying to fix an old VW.
Re:Nothing special... (Score:4, Informative)
A simple common rail diesel system with a line broken loose with a wrench under pressure can kill a man.
I'll take what every farmer has known since hydraulics were introduced for $100 Alex.
Yup. (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Bypass emissions? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah I'm sure farmers want to "roll coal" with $5 a gallon diesel in their $250k investment.
Re: (Score:2)
bypassing emissions lowers your fuel consumption
Re: (Score:2)
Not without significant expertise that the average farm mechanic is very unlikely to possess, its not like the late 70’s when defeats were easy as there were very similar previous models to copy from.
Playing with a modern computer controlled turbo diesel is more likely to use more fuel unless there is a well designed new firmware to go with it.
Not to mention the VW diesel cheating that cost them bigtime.
Re: (Score:1)
People do DPF and DEF deletes (removals)...including the necessary "playing" with the computer...all the time. (no comment on the legality)
Just removing those components is enough to improve fuel economy, you don't even have to adjust the fuel mapping.
You are just another someone, that thinks anything you know nothing about, is rocket surgery.
Can kill a man (Score:5, Insightful)
A simple common rail diesel system with a line broken loose with a wrench under pressure can kill a man.
There isn't a single piece of 120 volt AC equipment that can't kill a man and set the building it's in on fire. Yet somehow we manage to live with these devices being repaired by people who can barely operate a screwdriver.
Just more proof of the old saying "That it's near impossible to convince someone of the facts when their paycheck depends on not believing them":
John Deere doesn't like people taking things apart (Score:5, Funny)
Hmmm (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
There are plenty of people in parts of the USA where this is a fact of life already. They rent everything including their clothes.
IMHO, this is unsustainable in the long term.
Will every store be a 'company store'? Probably.
Do you want the likes of Elon Muck to own everything in the world and you pay him (or people like him) tithes for everything you need in life?
You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the comp
Re: (Score:1)
Sixteen Tons is a good glimpse of the future because it has already happened in the past. A past which many would like to return to, under the delusion that they will be better off somehow. They will no, instead they will be peasants just like everyone else, and it will all be the Other Party's fault.
So Dealers never get it Wrong? (Score:5, Interesting)
Similarly, in the UK it is illegal to work on domestic gas unless you work for a gas registered company, so I called in the main heating company in my town to repair my CH boiler. The guy replaced a part that he said was "full of electronics" and charged £120 for it plus the time rate for the job. The boiler still didn't work so I investigated. The part he replaced was actually a simple electrode probe to sense a water level that (I later found out) cost about £5. I also found the real problem was that the condensate drain pipe had a hole in it. I replaced the pipe myself, but don't tell the police.
Completely normal (Score:2)
Alcoholics, drunks and lushes are against any alcohol-related driving limits.
It's in their nature.
The Verge (Score:1)
If that shithead hack journalist at The Verge should have reported about this kind of right to repair abuse rather than write that bullshit clickbait Apple article.
Re: (Score:3)
Yep... but you get way more page views if you bash on Apple or Tesla than John Deere.
Built-in Equipment Failures (Score:1)
Another benefit to the manufacturers in blocking this - if owners can repair, they can also improve. They currently get lots of money in repair parts, where are they if someone finds a way to make the equipment last longer?
This seems counterintuitive - of COURSE OEM parts are better - but what if the design could be modified so the parts last longer? This would never occur to me, except I worked with equipment that did just that. I won't give the brand name, but the manufacturer had a firm "no modifications
The right to own things... (Score:1)
America is a democracy? Really? (Score:1)
Ain't that an oligarchy? It sure as hell isn't a democracy.