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Piracy Entertainment

Netflix Will Prompt Subscribers To Pay for Users Outside Their Households in New Test to Address Unauthorized Password Sharing (variety.com) 113

Posted by msmash from the crackdown-begins dept.
Netflix will soon launch a test letting primary account holders pay an additional fee for users outside their households -- a new attempt by the company to address illicit password-sharing. From a report: According to the Netflix terms of service, a customer's account "may not be shared with individuals beyond your household." After years of turning a blind eye to password-sharing behavior that falls outside that requirement, the company last year ran a limited test prompting users to enter their account credentials as a way to nudge freeloaders into paying for their own accounts. Now, in an upcoming test launching in three countries -- Chile, Costa Rica and Peru -- Netflix will let members who share their accounts with people outside their household do so "easily and securely, while also paying a bit more," according to Chengyi Long, director of product innovation at Netflix. The new options will roll out in the next few weeks in the three countries (and may or may not expand beyond those markets).
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Netflix Will Prompt Subscribers To Pay for Users Outside Their Households in New Test to Address Unauthorized Password Sharing More

Netflix Will Prompt Subscribers To Pay for Users Outside Their Households in New Test to Address Unauthorized Password Sharing

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  • All the streaming services have known about "out-of-home" sharing for YEARS. I'm surprised it has taken Netflix this long to do something about it.

    • Re:All the streaming services know about this (Score:5, Insightful)

      by WankerWeasel ( 875277 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2022 @01:42PM (#62363629)
      Part of it was about building dependancy. Get those leeches hooked on the service, then when they finally do cut them off from it, they're more likely to subscribe. Early years were all about creating a critical mass of users in order to attract investors. Like most current tech companies, it's more about showing active users than actual revenue. Sure, they could have made the push sooner but why bother when revenue was fine. Better to do it slowly than to upset people (as they've done with their big moves in the past like splitting streaming and disc services). The better planned and slower they do it, the more likely they'll retain those freeloaders as paying customers and less they risk upsetting people.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by leonbev ( 111395 )

      I already canceled my Netflix subscription, because of the combination of the rate increases and the lack of new quality content over the past two years.

      That said, I had a "leech" profile on my account who used the service more than I did. If Netflix tried to charge me more to use let them continue to use that account, I would have dumped their service pronto.

      • Netflix is NOT going to like the results.

        I bet a hell of a lot of subscribers just haven't bothered to cancel their accounts.

        Basically calling them thieves will give them that little push...

        • Netflix is NOT going to like the results.

          I bet a hell of a lot of subscribers just haven't bothered to cancel their accounts.

          Basically calling them thieves will give them that little push...

          Not likely. People will just pay for it, or at least enough of them will that it doesn't matter.

        • What do you call it when a family subscribes to Netflix and then shares it with three adult children and one grandparent?

          I do it myself with my girlfriend. I'm not angel.

          However, the result of this will merely be that she doesn't use netflix. And since I watch it *maybe* an hour a week, I'll probably cancel it too.

          I don't have a good answer for it. But I think they need to consider usage per account more than number of users.

          If 3 people are using 6 hours a week and another 3 people are using 60 hours per

          • If only Netflix had access to these kinds of statistics, they could only prompt heavy subscribers to pay for outside users!

          • "Still, you don't get to pay once for the buffet and then everyone in the family gets food."

            A more apropos analogy would be that having bought a buffet for four, then four may eat and have paid for eating. The fornication status of the four is irrelevant.

            • Perhaps, but most the people I know who share streaming are related. After that, it's people who are in relationships but not living together.

              I don't know too many "random groups of 4 people who agree to share the service".

              But perhaps that's a common use case. Is that what you mean?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jamesjw ( 213986 )

          After multiple recent price hikes in Australia I am close to ditching Netflix, I think Netflix will quickly realise that some money is better than no money, but I do wish them luck in reeling this back in - hope it works out for them.

        • Re:All the streaming services know about this (Score:5, Interesting)

          by tlhIngan ( 30335 ) <slashdot.worf@net> on Wednesday March 16, 2022 @06:24PM (#62364687)

          Netflix is NOT going to like the results.

          I bet a hell of a lot of subscribers just haven't bothered to cancel their accounts.

          Basically calling them thieves will give them that little push...

          There is a nicer way to do it, and that's you simply allow the max streams they subscribed to, but for the last N streams. So if you have 4 streams, and someone starts a 5th, the oldest stream stops and gets logged out with an error like "too many streams". And to make things even better, your position isn't remembered (the show you were watching might or might not).

          That way if you share too much, having your viewing interrupted by someone else just starting their stream can be enough of an incentive to simply get another subscription. It also means you don't want to share too widely because you don't want to settle in for an evening of watching only to have it interrupted abruptly. Even worse, you may not have tracked what episode you were watching and now have to spend the next 10 minutes figuring out where you were and getting back to where you were last watching.

          That inconvenience alone can make it so people don't share, or pay for an extra subscription. And yeah, you can come up with a complex system of schedules and such to avoid such conflicts but really, it's going to take just one person to screw it all up.

          Right now if you try to exceed the number of streams allowed, you're simply blocked from starting. That isn't too much of a discouragement - but having your stream interrupted is a huge discouragement because you don't want to lose your place, and you've already invested time in watching so you'd want to continue. Whereas if you couldn't start it on Netflix, hey, maybe it's on Amazon Prime instead, no big deal. Or watch something else on another service. But I know people who would go ballistic if you stopped their viewing, and thus, changing it so the oldest stream is suddenly kicked out can encourage new subscriptions.

          • The limit on the number of streams is already in place. If you have, say, a four stream subscription and you try to start up a fifth, it won't play. It's counted per stream, not per device, so you could use up your entire capacity on one computer if you were so inclined.

            What you are proposing instead is to allow the fifth stream and stop the first one; that's less friendly, as it could interrupt legitimate viewers. Some households have more than four people, and some people might run more than one stream at

  • What could possibly go wrong? Surely nobody uses their Netflix accounts while on the go! This change of policy will be completely accepted by the customers! By the way, how Qwikster is dois nowadays?

    • Re:Well... (Score:4)

      by jwhyche ( 6192 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2022 @01:17PM (#62363485) Homepage

      I imagine they are going to be smarter about it than that. I think its safe to assume a few hits on your account from a different IP address, or device, will not trigger this. But if there is a constant stream of hits from a device with the same IP address that isn't normally on the account over a series of months, then that might just trip the system.

      • > I think its safe to assume a few hits on your account from a different IP address, or device, will not trigger this.

        Ideally they'll do statistical mapping. They can tell if a kid was living at home and then goes off to boarding school/college with basic statistics. One fewer stream at home, one more stream at a relatively stable IP somewhere else.

        Most parents won't see a difference between a high schooler living at home and one at boarding school. Netflix needs to discriminate between non-abuse sit

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by jwhyche ( 6192 )

          Knowing Netflix, they'll piss people off instead. But one can hope for the triumph of wisdom.

          Appereantly, they are hit you up for an additional fee if they see someone outside your household using the account. Wonder what they are going to do if someone declines the extra fee? Are they going to close my account because I won't pay for someone else to use it?

          Truth is, in my household Netflix is in to is 2nd month of nobody watching it. Any subscription service that goes 3 months with out any one watching it gets cancelled.

          • Truth is, in my household Netflix is in to is 2nd month of nobody watching it. Any subscription service that goes 3 months with out any one watching it gets cancelled.

            3 months? You can drop and pickup streaming subscriptions trivially. At that point, you're just giving them 2 months of payment for no services rendered. I'd say cancel after 2 weeks of no watching, and if you feel the itch again, start it back up.

            • Exactly. I subscribe to Hulu one month per year. Catch up on my 3 shows and cancel. I'm using Netflix fairly continuously, though.

        • If you're not giving them all your money there's no such thing as a non-abusive situation to them. If you have a dime left in your bank account you're basically a terrorist

        • A high school (or earlier) student at boarding school gets to use the family subscription. If Netflix adds this kind of account limit there will need to be a mechanism to explain that situation to them. The number of students at boarding schools is small enough to have little impact on the service's bottom line.

          College students living somewhere other than the family home are another matter. They are expected to get their own subscriptions. Netflix and other streaming services offer special discounts to coll

      • cell with Carrier Grade NAT 4 may trip it

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tepples ( 727027 )

      By the way, how Qwikster is dois nowadays?

      The newest published count of Netflix DVD subscribers is for fourth quarter 2019, during which Netflix DVD had 2.15 million subscribers.

  • I canceled my Netflix a couple of months ago

    • I canceled my Netflix a couple of months ago

      Killed mine off this month, kept my dvd subscription as most of the content I care about is over there.

    • Dropped Netflix for Hulu because Netflix had nothing left we wanted to see, Hulu has been great and we've found tons of interesting stuff, then we added the Disney+, ESPN+ bundle too. It a few months, once Paramount+ has finished airing all episodes of Season one for Star Trek, Strange New Worlds, we'll buy a month and binge watch all the New seasons, then drop it for a few months till there's more of what we actually want to see...

  • Every time a streaming platform makes an announcement like this I always thing back to that Gabe Newell quote

    "Piracy isn't a content problem, its a service problem."

    People will get their internet TV via the path of least resistance, If its easy to pay for it they will, if its easier to pirate it they will without hesitation. The people owe no loyalty to these platforms (we can put a pin in subscription overload for later). I believe this is a mis-step, keeping the people that are tagging along on someone

    • You're arguing "people will pay for content if you make it easy" is a valid answer to this when this is literally people using the same exact service WITHOUT paying for it.

      A Netflix account isn't a world-wide free for all, otherwise there'd only be a need for 1 golden account. If you want to watch Netflix, then buy an account. If it's not worth it to you then don't.

      Now if this things trips up on false positives I'm all for coming down on them. EG, while my parents have a Netflix account, they don't have

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Merk42 ( 1906718 )
      Is Steam account sharing a thing?

      • Is Steam account sharing a thing?

        It is! Though it can be a little flakey at times https://store.steampowered.com... [steampowered.com]

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Ambvai ( 1106941 )

        Sort of. They have a function to share non-concurrent access to an account's contents. Which, in my experience, people tend to want to access the account at the same time, or play multiplayer without multiple copies, which rather diminishes its utility.

  • I've already been looking for an excuse to cancel Netflix. I want to thank you for giving me a reason instead of just an excuse.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Pascoea ( 968200 )
      With you on this one. It's barely hanging on by a thread as it is. It's irritating enough with the annual rate increases, the first time they send me a bill for my college kid they are likely gonnna get the boot.

  • Certainly there must be other solutions that Netflix can and possibly should consider.

    Does Netflix define a "household" as a certain number of distinct video streams? And anything beyond that number is not allowed?

    The /. blurb makes it sound like like Netflix does everything based on geo-locating IP addresses. Gee! What could go wrong with that?

    All I am saying is this - I understand what Netflix is doing and why they are doing it; earning revenue for "services rendered" and obtaining a fair profit for their

    • I think they already define a limit on the number of streams an account can have active depending on the type of account you have.

      What they'll likely be doing is looking for regularity of streaming from fixed IP addresses and at the same time. If IP address A streams an average of 5 hours of Netflix per day on a Roku, that's a consistent user. If location B comes online once or twice watching a few streams that's likely someone away from their home (on vacation or visiting). If location C watches a few h

    • Some ways will be more obvious than others.

      We use Netflix on two types of boxes connected to our main TV (depends on which remote is nearest). My wife watches it on her laptop in the other room when she's ironing. Her sister, 6000 miles away in South East Asia has her own profile assigned to the account (when you open Netflix, you get to choose who is watching so that each user has their own watchlist/history/algorithm generator).

      I suspect they will need to be careful to avoid frustrating normal users with

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      Does Netflix define a "household" as a certain number of distinct video streams? And anything beyond that number is not allowed?

      Netflix has a stream limit of one, two, or four streams per account, depending on account level.

      But household would presumably be by geography. I'm not sure how you'd enforce it within a given city, but when people are using it in different states at the same time for an extended period of time, that's potentially suspicious. Then again, what about college students using their existing account? Are they a different household? Probably not — certainly not from the government's point of view (colleg

  • It's taken them a surprisingly long time to crush this sort of usage.

    The basic rules should be pretty simple to implement. In fact, they have probably been implemented for years and not activated...which means they have a good idea of who's freeloading.

    Subscriber growth is slowing, so this should be a quick & easy way to increase their subscriber count.

    • Subscriber growth is slowing, so this should be a quick & easy way to increase their subscriber count.

      Subscriber growth is slowing because

      (a) There are only so many customers out there. Anyone who wants Netflix already has it and the population is growing slower than corporate greed
      (b) Most "content" on the various streaming platforms is crap and not worth paying for, which is why most people are OK with "account sharing"

      • a -> yes, but people that used shared accounts are potential subscribers who are freeloading.

        b -> is a bullshit answer. "It's worth stealing but not worth paying for." Tough shit.

        • b -> is a bullshit answer. "It's worth stealing but not worth paying for." Tough shit.

          Well, that and its almost wholly wrong. Obviously liking content is subjective, but the number of quality of shows out today dwarf what was available at almost any other time in history. Have you ever tried to watch a TV show from 20-30 years ago (or even older)? They're so hokey they are intolerable.

          We're now pretty much in the golden age of television. About the only thing I can complain about is that "seasons" of shows have gotten short. I kind of miss those 24-26 episode long seasons of yesteryear b

          • Well, that and its almost wholly wrong. Obviously liking content is subjective, but the number of quality of shows out today dwarf what was available at almost any other time in history. Have you ever tried to watch a TV show from 20-30 years ago (or even older)? They're so hokey they are intolerable.

            I've been rewatching Star Trek DS9 on Netflix and before that I rewatched Voyager. They're both in the 20-30 year old timeframe (yes that does make me feel very old).

            I can understand the thought that it's not worth paying for. I wouldn't pay for that content alone, nor would I buy the boxsets. If Netflix wasn't around then I'd probably do without (or torrent it, if I wanted to scratch that particular itch).

            However, as a collective service which includes old classics (TV shows, movies from my childhood/early

          • Have you ever tried to watch a TV show from 20-30 years ago (or even older)?

            Yes, hundreds.

      • (a) There are only so many customers out there. Anyone who wants Netflix already has it and the population is growing slower than corporate greed

        Right but what they are saying here is there are people using the service that aren't paying for it, that costs Netflix money.

        (b) Most "content" on the various streaming platforms is crap and not worth paying for, which is why most people are OK with "account sharing"

        So this makes no difference then unless you're the type of person who will consume crap just because it's free. If you're sharing somebody elses account and you get cut off by this new policy then the result is you don't get access to crap that wasn't worth paying for in the first place.

        • "Right but what they are saying here is there are people using the service that aren't paying for it, that costs Netflix money."

          So NetFlix is admitting that they are engaged in fraud? I would gladly pay 1/4 of the cost for four streams to only have the one I need. However, as I am *FORCED* by NetFlix to buy four simultaneous views then I should be able to utilize them as I see fit.

          • However, as I am *FORCED* by NetFlix to buy four simultaneous views then I should be able to utilize them as I see fit.

            You're not "FORCED" by Netflix to do anything and you can use them per the terms of Netflix's usage policy. If you don't agree with their policy then don't give them money.

    • Oh they probably never cared as long as subscriber base was growing. Especially when most subscribers were watching licensed content instead of self-produced. They'll do nominal work to tick the box and say they block unauthorized streaming to satisfy the content producers but otherwise it keeps the subscribers stickier than single-household accounts.

    • IMO it's obvious, they can prevent it, but... preventing it risks making netflix more annoying than piracy. Netflix, spotify etc... are learning from the video game industry, If you are adding hastles, while the illegal streaming tools aren't making things easier.. people will switch to piracy. Piracy is becoming more and more hastle free.... if paid services become more hastle... they will lose.

  • When the boardroom conversation turns from "how do we amaze our customers" to "how do we wring every possible dime out of our customers", you know the technologists and visionaries have left the building.

    • The bean counters have always been in charge. The old CEOs were just better at hiding it.

    • If you're not paying for their service, you're not a customer.

      If their method flags too many false positives then by all means jump on them and criticize away, but if your only complaint is that they want people using their service to actually pay for their service then they're not attacking "customers" at all.

    • When the boardroom conversation turns from "how do we amaze our customers" to "how do we wring every possible dime out of our customers", you know the technologists and visionaries have left the building.

      Tell me about it! I said the same thing the other day. I had this cleaning company come over and clean my house a couple weeks ago, they did a perfectly fine job and then I refused to pay. So I call them up to come over and clean my house again yesterday and they refused! Said they wouldn't provide the service because I didn't pay! What kind of customer service is that?! Man they certainly have shifted to being all focussed on money and not on amazing their customers, sad.

  • Even without anything fancy like machine learning, this doesn't seem like it would be hard to fix.

    Give points out for "suspicious" behavior, set break points for warnings "It appears that this account is in use by someone else. Was X use on Y date also you? [Note: Netfflix/Disney+ accounts are not to be shared with people outside your household]" , text/email confirmations to the account holder, etc.
    They could even offer an amnesty type deal, offer limited huge discounts for accounts flagged with an option

    • Of course it is hard to fix, because of the business consequences.

      There's any number of schemes that you could come up with to address the situation. The technicalities of the solution are not going to be the problem. Netflix has plenty of smart people to come up with ideas and to implement them.

      For affected customers, those ideas will all end up with the inconvenience of fewer devices/people having access for the same money, or more devices/people having access for more money. And people don't want to pay

  • We already pay for extra screens for concurrent play. Are they saying all the screens need to be physically close to each other? What about Mobile? Is my phone or laptop going to start whining for a password, just because someone at home is using the account, when I payed for extra screens exactly for this reason? I read the article and the blog, and that is not clear at all. They did use the word "flexible" in their blog though. This doesn't sound flexible.
  • For example is a Student away at university "out of household?"

    • Answer is a no. More complete answer is the definition is whatever your service agreement (a contract) says it is. Currently that is "if you don’t live with the owner of this account, you need your own account to keep watching". If you don't like it, Netflix says implies that you can go pound sand.

      This will continue when there is not any sort of consumer protection organization or government entity that determines what sort of services are offered and standardizes the contracts and definitions. (for e

      • So they will tag a frequent use geographically outside of account's address? Kinda like credit card company would call you when a use pattern is suddenly different when you're on vacation?

        • Two different IPs in use at the same time is justification enough for them to hassle you. Probably lots of false positives for people on VPN or streaming over their phone. Given that my own GeoIP doesn't seem to match anything sane means I will probably have trouble one of these days. Oh well, I guess Netflix is going to drive me away too.

          I suspect Netflix plays some data driven games. Where people streaming lots of shows. With more than two or three "family" users in their account. Coming from IPs tracked

    • And for a paying student in a dormitory - is the dorm his 'household' ?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        And for a paying student in a dormitory - is the dorm his 'household' ?

        Yeah, that's where it gets ugly. Arguably these folks should be on their parents' connection, not sharing a single account among four dorm residents.

        But either way, the data portability problems (losing your account history) are a nightmare, and until Netflix solves that problem, you're going to continue to see widespread abuse, because that abuse is primarily caused by a fundamental disconnect between the way they want to bill people (per household) and the way people actually use the service (per individ

  • I spend a lot of time at my partner's house and between the two of us, we have 3 TVs. We're either watching here or we're watching there. I'm won't pay for 4 more screens for the two of us to watch Netflix at both houses. I'll just cancel my subscription, especially with the recent price hikes (again).

  • I doubt we'll ever hear about the results of this test or the numbers if they enact it platform-wide.

    If you have a relative or friend that watches ONE show regularly via your account, that person isn't going to sign up for $18/month or whatever it is now. They're going to either forget about it, or torrent it.

    If, even worse, the network is D+ and they don't like Disney's politics, they're going to straight up torrent it. OR, they'll even purchase a VPN and then torrent it.

  • Just cancelled Netflix. Why pay for something - when I can hardly find anything (more) to watch? Everyone knows these various payment schemes are nickle and diming us to death.

    • Everyone knows these various payment schemes are nickle and diming us to death.

      Still cheaper than renting all this at blockbuster or worse, buying it all on DVD.

  • If I have a Netflix plan that allows for three screens of streaming simultaneously, why should Netflix give a crap where the three screens are located? If all three screens are streaming at the same time, the data required is the same whether it's to my home on three TV's or to three different homes on three TV's? This sounds like nothing but a cash grab to me.

  • They already limit number of concurrent streams...

    Bean counters trying to squeeze more from same group of people since they can only raise subscription prices so often. They may end up driving more people away and lose more money in the end. Netflix is already underutilized in my house, and there will become a price point where I cancel. Hopefully they were wise enough to make the algorithm go primarily after the heavy users who are sharing because the first time I have to unnecessarily jump through hoop

  • ...the company last year ran a limited test prompting users to enter their account credentials as a way to nudge freeloaders into paying for their own accounts. [ emphasis mine ]

    Who the FUCK let the word "freeloader" past the editor?

    These additional users are not freeloaders. These accounts are fully paid for. From Netflix's perspective, there is no difference between two users streaming in different parts of the same house, and two users streaming in different houses. Netflix's revenue -- and bandwidt

    • This is a completely made-up problem, born from a defective mind -- the same kind of mind that would try to charge you extra if you had a movie night party at your house, because more people are watching "their" content.

      Sure, if you've got too many people over (friends are OK, family is OK, friends of immediate family OK, friends of friends not OK), it's a public performance and the MPAA gets to sue you for ONE MILLION DOLLARS... err actually $150,000, per work shown.

      That this has not happened much keeps Ja

  • I don't understand. I use a different ip address if I use my Netflix at home, on my mobile phone on the bus, using the hotel wifi when travelling or roaming, when I stay at my girlfriends place, using my work laptop at work at lunchtime, etc. Are they saying I can't use my 4 streams I paid for?

  • All netflix is doing is enforcing their own Terms of Service everyone had agreed to. I just hope they will still allow those who are travelling to continue to receive netflix without extra costs.

  • I share my netflix account with family members but we also share showtime, hbomax, prime, disney + , paramount + and apple tv. If we had to buy all those individually we could do without a few ... so if they all start doing this , I bet some will lose customers

  • I'd like to see them run a test whereby when you take your phone with you to another country and are still paying for service in your home country, you don't lose access to the content.

    I mean, if I'm from country X and therefore have access to content Cx it shouldn't matter where I am - I'm still the same customer, right?

  • I'd like to see them run a test where they remove the download limits or at least make them save.

    If I download 100 five-minute kids episodes across 1.25 shows (because the limits are so low) that shouldn't be considered the same as 100 movies.

    Why not have storage- / transfer- based limits or no limits at all?

    Why not allow us to fill the SDXC card with episodes?

  • Well, SHIT. This means I won't be able to use my VPN to get content that's available in other countries, but not the US.
  • The only reason I have a netflix subscription is because I use it on hotel smart TVs so I don't have to watch cable or OTA TV... If they start claiming that it is "outside my household" then I'll just have to quit the subscription and probably go back to carrying a hard drive with me with something to watch when bored in a hotel.
  • What does Netflix consider to be a "household"? Is it a group of people all accessing the internet from the same IP address? I have 2 children away at college whom I still consider part of my household. Will Netflix? What if I travel away from home and bring my iPad with me to watch Netflix while I'm away?

  • How could Netflix tell the difference between the original
    subscriber logging in, and someone else logging in with the
    same credentials, provided that only one login is allowed at a time?

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