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Privacy United States IT

IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access (krebsonsecurity.com) 240

If you created an online account to manage your tax records with the U.S. Internal Revenue Service (IRS), those login credentials will cease to work later this year. From a report: The agency says that by the summer of 2022, the only way to log in to irs.gov will be through ID.me, an online identity verification service that requires applicants to submit copies of bills and identity documents, as well as a live video feed of their faces via a mobile device. McLean, Va.-based ID.me was originally launched in 2010 with the goal of helping e-commerce sites validate the identities of customers who might be eligible for discounts at various retail establishments, such as veterans, teachers, students, nurses and first responders.

These days, ID.me is perhaps better known as the online identity verification service that many states now use to help staunch the loss of billions of dollars in unemployment insurance and pandemic assistance stolen each year by identity thieves. The privately-held company says it has approximately 64 million users, and gains roughly 145,000 new users each day. Some 27 states already use ID.me to screen for identity thieves applying for benefits in someone else's name, and now the IRS is about to join them. The service requires applicants to supply a great deal more information than typically requested for online verification schemes, such as scans of their driver's license or other government-issued ID, copies of utility or insurance bills, and details about their mobile phone service.

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IRS Will Soon Require Selfies for Online Access

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @12:43PM (#62188211)
    You can't force me to buy and use a smartphone.
    • by Agent Fletcher ( 624427 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @12:45PM (#62188223)
      Then you can't login you'll have to use physical copies and USPS to send in forms.
      • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:23PM (#62188365)

        Most PC's have video cameras as well that you can use, you can get one for under $20.

        For a website that is suppose to be science and technology focused they sure are a lot of users of Slashdot, who have issues with using new as in 15 year old technologies.

        Chances are if you are going online to use the IRS services, then you are going to have a somewhat modern set of equipment. Trying to use the Web in 2022 with a Pentium PC running Windows 98 probably wont cut it. Even if you put a modern version of Linux on that system, I am guessing using a new version of Firefox or Chromium is going to be painful.

        If you want to function in society, there will be some things that you might need to buy to work with it. Paper and Stamps if you are going via Mail. A telephone with a Lan Line for Telephone, you may need to get a Radio or a Television to receive daily news. You will need a Computer or a Smartphone to access websites.

        Being that most computers and nearly all phones (even the non-smart ones) have Cameras on them, it isn't unreasonable that we require such functionality. Especially if it will help better secure the information.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Most PC's have video cameras as well that you can use, you can get one for under $20.

          That's an awfully selfish stance to assume others are also so selfish as to not consider that third parties might be poor or unable to figure out how to use an add-on camera. This is not something that should be required. The paper documents are arcane compared to the online setup, which really just amounts to copy/paste from your online worksheet to IRS's pages.

          • by virtig01 ( 414328 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:58PM (#62188531)

            That's an awfully selfish stance to assume others are also so selfish as to not consider that third parties might be poor or unable to figure out how to use an add-on camera.

            Go to the library. They'll have the equipment and the people who can help you use it.

            Or skip the camera-based verification altogether; it's not required. From TFA:

            The service requires applicants to supply ... scans of their driver’s license or other government-issued ID, copies of utility or insurance bills, and details about their mobile phone service.

            When an applicant doesn’t have one or more of the above — or if something about their application triggers potential fraud flags — ID.me may require a recorded, live video chat with the person applying for benefits.

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by nospam007 ( 722110 ) *

              "Go to the library. They'll have the equipment and the people who can help you use it."

              Yes, use a 'secure' system with a library machine where every day dozens of strangers try to install malware on.

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by markdavis ( 642305 )

              I love it.

              So just showing an ID to vote, the ID you need to drive a car, get a job, buy alcohol, open a bank account, or anything else in modern life, is somehow "racist" and "suppressive". But if you want to use the IRS online, you will have to have cameras, or mobile devices, and and ID and send your ID and photos and phone numbers, and whatever else nonsense, and/or somehow make it to a library that has available/working webcams (good luck) for some type of scheduled (good luck) video chat. And all tha

              • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

                The difference is that if you don't have the right ID, you can't vote.

                If you don't have access to a camera or internet, you can still do your taxes by mail.

          • Then I guess take your poor as to a public library and use theirs?
        • by Merk42 ( 1906718 )

          For a website that is suppose to be science and technology focused they sure are a lot of users of Slashdot, who have issues with..

          Are you new? The users here have an issue with literally everything. In the highly unlikely chance they can't find an issue with the content of TFA, then they take issue with the Submitter, calling them a shill or the article a slashvertisement.

        • by MeNeXT ( 200840 )

          Not to mention you haven't even considered that you don't even need a camera for a video.

        • by jbengt ( 874751 )

          For a website that is suppose to be science and technology focused they sure are a lot of users of Slashdot, who have issues with using new as in 15 year old technologies.

          Or maybe they know the pitfalls of requiring log-ins through a private company that collects facial recognition data as well as scanning and OCRing images of private bills and identification documents.

        • It's not necessarily about the ability to do so, it's about the lack of desire to do so. ...and the creeping amount of "requirements" to perform simple tasks.
        • you're talking mostly to the men behind the curtain who have seen lots of epic fuck ups and don't trust the technology because they know how shitty it actually is in implementation - regardless of however good the intentions that manifested it are - the road to hell is still paved.

        • Of course, the IBS never thought for a second that a criminal can get a selfie off the internet and use that for their vile activities. The IBS also never thought that this is just a speed bump for organized criminals. I'm sure though that the IBS knows this will screw and be further invasive to honest citizens, and of course "fuck you, we're the government".

            And no, I did not spell that particular scary 3 letter agency's acronym wrong.

      • by narcc ( 412956 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:38PM (#62188449) Journal

        Okay. Electronic filing benefits the IRS more that it benefits me. I've been mailing in my return for years.

        The real problem is ID.me. This is a private company sucking on the government teat that will soon have way too much power and virtually no oversight.

        • by Ksevio ( 865461 )

          Really? Like with a stamp and stuff? Sounds pretty inconvenient

          • by narcc ( 412956 )

            It take me about 10 minutes to do my personal federal taxes on paper. It takes a full hour to do the same with tax-prep software.

            Give should give paper a try. You'll be amazed at how quick and easy it is.

            • I just send all tax stuff to my CPA and she does my company/corporation and personal....bada bing, done.

              I just sign a few forms, no pictures necessary and she files it all electronically.

        • Fortunately for you this has nothing to do with efile. I've never had to create an account to efile, from what I remember for authentication there is either a PIN or you enter your last year's AGI. I believe this is more for self-employed people who need to submit quarterly taxes or business owners submitting withheld taxes.

        • by waspleg ( 316038 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @04:02PM (#62188997) Journal

          About ID.me
          ID.me simplifies how individuals prove and share their identity online. The ID.me secure digital identity network has more than 39 million members with over 70,000 new subscribers joining daily, as well as partnerships with 22 states, multiple federal agencies, and over 400 name brand retailers. The company provides identity proofing, authentication and group affiliation verification for organizations across sectors. The company's technology meets the highest federal standards and is approved as a NIST 800-63-3 IAL2 / AAL2 conformant credential service provider by the Kantara Initiative. ID.me is the only provider with video chat and is committed to "No Identity Left Behind" to enable all people to have a secure digital identity. To learn more, visit https://www.id.me/ [www.id.me]

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        This seems like a really great opportunity for an enterprising lawyer to make a name for him/herself by challenging the policy based on 4th Amendment principles. Yes, the IRS still allows citizens to conduct their business through "old fashioned" methods, but a case could be made that the shorter government response time (I'm making that assumption here) for users on the internet is discriminatory against citizens who choose not to submit a photo. It's also interesting to note that this policy assumes the
    • by BeerFartMoron ( 624900 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @12:49PM (#62188245)

      You can't force me to buy and use a smartphone.

      I have never owned a smartphone. I had no problem signing up with ID.me to opt-out of the Child Test Credit prepayments last year.

      The process was essentially to take pictures of all my documents (including a "selfie"), upload them, and then have a Zoom call with ID.me where I held each document while they took screenshots.

      Technically, it was a headache. I played drunk moron to make it worse for the poor agent on the other end. Would not wish this process on anyone over 60.

    • by TXJD ( 5534458 )
      Indeed, but luckily you can use USPS or actually go to an IRS branch office.
  • by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @12:44PM (#62188221)

    this is an call from ID.ME about your IRS issue if you don't give us all of your info over the phone now we will call the cops to take you to jail.

  • Odd timing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Baron_Yam ( 643147 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @12:46PM (#62188229)

    Who in their right mind implements this at the same time as real-time DeepFakes are becoming a thing? Do you really want to bet on how long before you'll be able to download an app for it?

    • So someone invents a flying car to replace your Toyota Camry, and you complain because it can't do Faster Than Light travel like the X-Wings in Star Wars?

      Dude, it's better than passwords, assuming it was implemented correctly and they certainly can be used in conjunction.

      Fighting fraud is an arms race. The better countermeasures you develop, the better the fraudsters will get. That's just life. Don't shit on improvement just because it is not perfection.

      Video verification can do a lot to stop d
      • Dude, it's better than passwords, assuming it was implemented correctly and they certainly can be used in conjunction.

        It's! Really! Fucking! Not!

        So to authenticate with the tax office you need to upload a whole bunch of sensitive personal information to some arbitrary 3rd party chosen by them.

        A publicly traded company with shareholders who *will* demand that the company further monetize the trove of information by selling it to the highest bidder.

        A company which could go bankrupt and be sold off along with your information at any time.

        A company which fills it's websites with terms like "military grade"... And in reality pr

    • To deep fake something you have to have something to train on, which probably means you'd need a photo of the individual anyway.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @12:49PM (#62188237)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by UnknownSoldier ( 67820 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @12:58PM (#62188275)

      The government putting up artificial barriers of entry to make it difficult to pay? I'm shocked I tell you! Are they taking lessons from the entertainment industry on how difficult it is to to buy (older) movies and TV shows? /s

    • My wife tried to sign up and was unable to pass the photo verification, as it kept saying there was glare on the photo of her driver's license. She contacted support and received a canned response that said she should try again, though the support request indicated she'd tried from a mobile phone, tablet, and laptop.

      Maybe they're better at it now?

      • by jbengt ( 874751 )
        I had that issue with Social Security (or maybe Medicare I don't remember) That was just for signing up though, never needed it to log in. Anyway, I forget how, but I was easily able to sign up another way, once it let me.
    • by tragedy ( 27079 )

      To verify my identity, they asked questions about my own finances.

      Yeah, I pretty much never get past those ones. In the past, I finally figured out that checking overdraft protection I'd had with one bank (but no longer had on that account) had somehow been turned into a record of an installment loan (for $0). The last time I got one of these it was trying to order my yearly free credit report. I can't be sure what question they think I got wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was the one where it asked if I had a checking account with a particular bank. I don't have a checking

  • Well that sucks! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DarkOx ( 621550 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @12:51PM (#62188247) Journal

    Id.me is a flaming pile of dog shit. My wife and i tried to set it up so we could decline the early child tax credit payments (because I always owe at the end of year anyway). After 4 devices and 2 hours of trying still could not get registered.

    I won't both in the future, paper forms and stamps or third parties like H&R Block it is when dealing the the IRS.

    And if you are a commercial operator and you try and subject me to that garbage; I will move on to someone competitor and that is promise. FUCK ID.me

    • I have to wonder if H&RB actually lobbied for this
    • Re:Well that sucks! (Score:5, Informative)

      by mdpowell ( 256664 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @02:00PM (#62188545)

      I had a similar experience for the same basic reason.

      It was overwhelmingly the most horrible ID verification experience I have ever had. Their "easy" facial recognition system wouldn't match my face to the photo of my ID in spite of many many tries (different lights, different camera, different background), which eventually locked me out of that system. After it quit letting me attempt facial recognition, in addition to repeatedly having to enter my information, I was forced to do a video call and hold up my driver's license, and it took trying several devices to get that to work.

      There really should be some sort of legal case against this interaction being required. To my knowledge there was no other way to complete this transaction except to go through ID.me. There should always be an option to snail mail a form.

  • by QuietLagoon ( 813062 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @12:52PM (#62188251)
    {{{-The privately-held company says it has approximately 64 million users,, and gains roughly 145,000 new users each day-}}} - what a treasure trove of personal data, including images and videos, that has been accumulated by that company. Where else is that data being used?

    .
    It is starting to look like a video selfie is becoming de rigueur for online ID nowadays. coinbase.com wanted one from me when I signed up with that outfit.

  • for all identity theft info. Best way to make anything public is to give the info top the government for safe keeping.
  • I mean, don't we all do our taxes now on our cell phones? So of course limiting id verification to a selfie from your cell will make total sense...

  • online with the US government and go back to pen, paper and USPS.
    • When dealing with government a paper trail is a necessity. So this is the only logical choice. And for the most part it keeps things between you and the government and circumvents one or more third parties from handling your info.
    • Well, everyone was saying how necessary the internet was in their lives. Now they know what it feels like when it's necessary fort everyone else.

    • online with the US government and go back to pen, paper and USPS.

      Then, they will take away that option, or make using it extremely onerous.

  • Sure. I can send them a selfie. But the machine I usually log on from doesn't have a camera. So how will they know it's me sitting at the keyboad?

    • Sure. I can send them a selfie. But the machine I usually log on from doesn't have a camera. So how will they know it's me sitting at the keyboad?

      They won't let you log in from that machine, obviously.

    • by narcc ( 412956 )

      Your mistake is thinking that this is about security. This is about funneling a ton of money to a private company who knows how to keep the wheels greased, ifyouknowwhatImean.

      What did Tony the Tiger say? It's Grrrrift!

      • by Ksevio ( 865461 )

        It's probably to combat the widespread fraud with people filing for returns online

        • by narcc ( 412956 )

          Is there widespread fraud though? I'd like to see some evidence of that before we give a lot of money and power to a private company.

          When I've asked about the evidence for alleged massive/widespread fraud, I'm assured that tons of it exists, but it never seems to actually show up.

          • With taxes? Yes - and even more so with the PPP loans. Plenty of real stories about that. I don't think a single private identity provider is the way to go. Not even sure why it has to be limited to one choice in company.

  • The government has no need to do this. They really don't. It's just another way of them knowing who you are. The system has worked well for years, no sense in changing it now. I do my level best to keep my interactions with government to a bare minimum. Government has always been bad, but really bad in the last 20 years. I'm toying with the idea of getting rid of my smartphone. Everything is just so connected now it's ridiculous. Good luck buying a fridge, freezer, TV, or anything else remotely complicated
  • by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:00PM (#62188291)
    Most of the information collected from taxpayers as part of the identity verification process won't be disclosed, according to ID.me's policy. The policy explains that information identifying a specific individual, including the photographic images and selfies that users must submit, won't be shared, sold, rented, or traded and will be used only to verify identity.

    But the privacy policy for taxpayers preparing to enter their information into the portal also says that ID.me "may disclose or share Non-Personally Identifiable Information with Third-Party Service Providers and Affiliates."

    It defines non-personally identifiable information as information that doesn't identify a specific user and that "may include things like the Uniform Resource Locator ('URL') of the website you visited before coming to the Website, the URL of the website you visit after leaving the Website, the type of browser you are using, your Internet Protocol IP address, occupation, language, unique device identifier, approximate geographic location, and time zone."


    Full story: Forbes: The Emerging Taxpayer Data Protection Problem [forbes.com]
    • It defines non-personally identifiable information as information that doesn't identify a specific user and that "may include things like the Uniform Resource Locator ('URL') of the website you visited before coming to the Website, the URL of the website you visit after leaving the Website, the type of browser you are using, your Internet Protocol IP address, occupation, language, unique device identifier, approximate geographic location, and time zone."

      Ah, so everything marketers need to identify a person

  • Too bad (Score:5, Informative)

    by endus ( 698588 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:01PM (#62188295)

    Too bad there isn't some system which offers the public one account for government...

    https://www.login.gov/ [login.gov] ...oh...well...except for THAT one I mean. THAT one is used for trusted traveler programs, and obviously one's passport and drivers license aren't as strong for identification as a selfie and a utility bill.

    Our government is such a joke.

    • Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)

      by narcc ( 412956 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:56PM (#62188525) Journal

      It's cute that you think this is government inefficiency. This is a sleazy private company working with sleazy politicians to steal as much money as they can from the American taxpayer. You know all the calls to privatize the post office? It's the same scam, just on a smaller scale. That's probably why it worked.

      Write your congress critter.

    • As part of this, they've disabled the login.gov access to the IRS.

      I remember when it was considered a bad thing to use the same login credentials on multiple services, because it made for an easy attack surface - compromise one account, you have them all.

      Now, with Single Sign On, the attack surface is still small. It's just the level of hype over how hard it is to sign on and own all associated SSO accounts that changes.

  • by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:14PM (#62188329) Journal

    Does this affect people doing electronic submission of their taxes via third party tax prep software packages like TurboTax too?

  • By making them less so.
  • by waspleg ( 316038 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @01:33PM (#62188417) Journal

    shit website as an automated tool for trying to read ID.ME's 10 years of filings. [sec.report] This has literally never happened before in hundreds of look ups, this is an old desktop with firefox, lol. I do not think this is a coincidence, neither is the dearth of information.

    Fun fact, they were called TroopSwap Inc before changing their name. That sounds like a legit business you want having all your personal and financial information, RIGHT?

    • in foreign fraud [prnewswire.com]. But, you can't see our financials, or who are investors are - at all, but WE'RE HEROES, TRUST US!!

      There are like a dozen filings were private hedge funds/investors/whoever have been buying hundreds of millions of dollars in stake without being named under some bullshit federal law. At least Skynet was out in the open.

      Their slogan is "NO IDENTITY LEFT BEHIND", that's not ominous sounding at all... /s

  • It is on the people to report their taxes, which was the only way to do it in ancient times. Now in a time where everyone you deal with has to report income to the IRS on your behalf, self reporting is just a waste of everyone's time. The IRS should be sending out a 'look this is what we have, amend it with any pertinent info and return it to us'. But no, we have third party craps milking more tax money and access to info they really have no reason to see.
    • The IRS should be sending out a 'look this is what we have, amend it with any pertinent info and return it to us'.

      Wasn't someone in power recently advocating for Americans to be able to submit their taxes on a postcard, like a lot of other countries?

      But of course this flies in the face of the American tradition of fake liberty. Goddamn gubmint tracking my income and TELLING ME what taxes to pay!

      See, your taxes are voluntary. You fill out a bunch of papers and do a bunch of math, and it better match the math we did or else, and you better not forget anything, because we know. And then you submit those papers, and the

  • My work hours were recently cut so I'm able to collect unemployment to make up the difference. I had to go through the selfie process with ID.me as well.

  • STANDARD (supposed) SECURITY CRACKDOWN ARTICLE FORM REPLY

    We are headed for a one world fascist government, and this article shows another piece of what's coming together.

    You won't even be considered a human being anymore, instead just a 'unit', with a police identification number to identify you. You will be a forever suspect, a potential enemy of the 'state', and they will constantly watch for any little thing to hang you for. They will always be hungry for your blood.

    People l

  • by NotEmmanuelGoldstein ( 6423622 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2022 @05:17PM (#62189281)
    Selfie and government Id., utility bill and birth certificate is the new way of proving you're a real person. It's better this is handled by one business so that no documents are exchanged, ever. Every business having a copy of your proof, is a nightmare waiting to happen. If such a database is ever stolen, millions of people will become unpersons, as their actions can no longer be verified as belonging to only one person.

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