Guitarist Eric Clapton Successfully Sues Woman For Posting $11 Bootleg (guitarworld.com) 183
Long-time Slashdot reader kjshark writes: Eric Clapton has successfully sued a German woman who posted an illegal recording for €9.95, about $11 on eBay. The CD was a single-bootlegged recording of a Clapton concert from the 1980s.
After Clapton sent a court in Düsseldorf an affidavit stating the recordings were illegal, the defendant claimed she was unaware the CD was recorded illegally and that her late husband originally purchased the CD at a department store in 1987. Her appeal was rejected by the court.
The court ruled that the woman pay the legal fees for both parties which amount to around $3,500 and that if she continues to keep the recording up on eBay she'll face six months in prison or a fine of around $283,000.
After Clapton sent a court in Düsseldorf an affidavit stating the recordings were illegal, the defendant claimed she was unaware the CD was recorded illegally and that her late husband originally purchased the CD at a department store in 1987. Her appeal was rejected by the court.
The court ruled that the woman pay the legal fees for both parties which amount to around $3,500 and that if she continues to keep the recording up on eBay she'll face six months in prison or a fine of around $283,000.
But think of ... (Score:3)
the exposure for Eric Clapton.
Re: But think of ... (Score:2)
Re: Just another anti-vaxxer. Get him! (Score:2)
2020 was a peaceful prosperous time for America with no homelesness or political strife. Nothing wrong with that year!
Re: Just another anti-vaxxer. Get him! (Score:2, Troll)
"but with inflation going Zimbabwe style, and some of the top economic people warning that the dollar will be worth zero in 2022, the proof is in the pudding of whom had a better administration."
This was in the making for a very long time now and the chickens are coming home to roost. If the dollar really collapses, we can thank all of the fiat and bullshit that goes back decades.
There is no convienient president to blame this one on.
Re: Just another anti-vaxxer. Get him! (Score:2)
^this will be llike the aftermath of a nuclear war. You are not going to care who started it, you are only going to care about your continued survival.
Maybe you will care if you need a witch to burn to vent your frustrations, but it will do jack shit in improving your situation.
Re: Just another anti-vaxxer. Get him! (Score:2)
Wow somebody sure couldn't handle the truth.
Unsorry that I took away whatever witch you wanted to burn for this and unsorry that this has been a very long time coming and we let it happen. We had plenty of time to reverse the course to doom but we didn't. Now we get to pay the piper. :-\
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
You mean the Commander in Chief who presided over the greatest period of American economic prosperity in existence.
I think you are confusing Trump with Eisenhower. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: Just another anti-vaxxer. Get him! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep, that damn vaccine crippled him for life. And it was so bad that he has been cancelling concerts due to pain all the way back to 2013. Then he went public about his progressively degenerative peripheral neuropathy back in 2016 talking about how it was giving him back and leg pain and made guitar playing really difficult. Then in 2018 he was talking about how it spread to his hands and they only "just about work". That goddamn vaccine has been crippling him worse and worse for nearly a decade now.
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Claptonâ(TM)s manager, Michael Eaton, told the Guardian: âoeGermany is a country where sales of bootleg and counterfeit CDs are rife, which damages the industry and customers with poor quality and misleading recordings. Along with a number of other major artists and record companies, over a number of years Eric Clapton has, through German lawyers, successfully pursued hundreds of bootleg cases in the German courts under routine German copyright procedures. âoeCosts are usually minimal unless the case is argued in court, which is what happened here as the lady instructed her own lawyers. Now that the full facts of this particular case have come to light, the intention is that the formal German proceedings will not be pursued any further.â
So before everyone gets out their pitchforks and flaming torches, look for a version of the story that didn't come from Bild. From the above it looks like if she'd simply said "oops, my bad, I'll withdraw the sale" nothing more would have happened.
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From the above it looks like if she'd simply said "oops, my bad, I'll withdraw the sale" nothing more would have happened.
Most likely true.
I guess she really was convinced the CD recording was legit.
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Germany is a country where sales of bootleg and counterfeit CDs are rife, which damages the industry and customers with poor quality and misleading recordings.
And that's bullshit. Bootlegs are mostly bought as collector items, not as cheap replacement of official Live recordings. Everybody knows they are unofficial recordings, and their value is in their rarity (a recording of a show that was a unique event in time).
A true music fan of any artist usually starts collecting bootlegs when he/she already has all the official recordings.
Clapton's lawyers are just jealous that he doesn't make money on them.
at least it was not 3.5K per download (Score:2)
at least it was not 3.5K per download
Did he try being nice first? (Score:4, Insightful)
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A plaintiff is required to show that they notified the defendant of the violation and made a reasonable attempt to settle. It is up to the court to decide what is "reasonable," but if the defendant rejects what is latter deemed to have been a reasonable offer, it is common for the court to require them to pay the plaintiff's legal expenses, as happened in this case.
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You appear to quite knowledgeable about German law. How did you get this knowledge?
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You appear to quite knowledgeable about German law. How did you get this knowledge?
Google and Wikipedia.
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Then your google fu is slacking, and perhaps you might want to mark the wikipedia articles for review and fixing.
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A plaintiff is required to show that they notified the defendant of the violation and made a reasonable attempt to settle.
Nope. Perhaps you missed the summary: this happened in Germany.
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it is common for the court to require them to pay the plaintiff's legal expenses, as happened in this case.
Nope again. This is Germany. Aka Europe.
The loser pays the legal fees. There is nothing the court can do to change it. As: that is what is written in the law
No idea why people who have "court law" and juries think they know anything about real courts and real laws.
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Actually, he did. He asked that the listing be taken down.
Unfortunately, the lady basically said "I won't, if you think it's illegal, then sue me" So he did.
So it's not quite a "ignorant anti-vaxxer celebrity wins lawsuit against innocent lady". She ended asking for the lawsuit by well, asking for it.
And unfortunately, that's the reality, because as idiotic and ignorant that Eric Clapton is, she basically asked to be sued. Likely if she just took it down that would be all we heard of it. But instead, you ha
Strange (Score:2)
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Yes, especially the covering legal fees part. That seems to be a disproportional punishment.
I can see how copyright holds up, possibly, but unless she sold hundreds of bootleg records on purpose, which apparently she didn't. this seems highly unreasonable to me.
And as for Clapton, he seem to have forgotten how Metallica's actions were perceived by their fans, back in the days with the napster case. Seems scrooge just got a new name this xmas.
Re:Strange (Score:5, Insightful)
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Difficulty here is that it is a bootleg of a live performance, and at least for a goodish portion of Europe (I have no idea for Germany specifically) not copyrightable.
I have tons of live recordings I've bought, all issued from European labels, precisely because of this.
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I think you miss the point.
If a label is recording life and selling it, obviously that is legal.
If you or I record with my phone and then sell it: that is obviously a copyright infringement.
Or do you not agree?
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Nope.
Per here [pitchfork.com], only the mechanical royalty need be paid locally. And even then, Clapton's suit would be against the original issuer of the CD, not some lady after the fact. And if memory serves, Clapton's share from the mechanical royalties would be 9 cents for that one CD.
And "label" here is kind of a misnomer. They are more akin to a holding company. I have a few recordings that are the same live recording issued by different "labels". In fact, Clapton could take that same recording, issue it himself, an
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And even then, Clapton's suit would be against the original issuer of the CD, not some lady after the fact.
Perhaps you want to read up about about German or European copyright law.
You can sue anyone in the chain of infringement. The unlawfull copy, and every one _distributing_ it.
Hint _distribution_ does not even mean: sell.
Sorry, you have no clue about the topic.
Funny that you think a judge in a german court of law makes a mistake regarding german laws ... hybris ... oh, why do english people spell hybris
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"I have no idea for Germany specifically"
Literacy isn't your strong point, but let's continue.
"You can sue anyone in the chain of infringement. The unlawfull copy, and every one _distributing_ it."
Not exactly [cnbc.com]
Money quote- "could still be held liable if it “has specific knowledge that protected content is available illegally on its platform and refrains from expeditiously deleting it or blocking access to it,".
Her specific defense was she was unaware the CD was recorded illegally.
But your preening has b
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From the original article, this is already the appeal's court and there was very likely an ignored cease-and-desist letter involved, too. So while this is likely an a-hole move by Clapton, the article is very likely not telling the whole truth.
Washington Post has slightly more. It very much looks like she did not ignore the cease-and-desist but rather actively enticed Clapton's team to sue her. Here is a sum total of all the sympathy I have for her:
And here is a link to the WP: https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
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Please keep in mind that this is an article of Bild, the worst kind of rainbow press in Germany.
What is rainbow press? Google doesn't give me much.
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That's code for, "Not even far right."
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Rainbowpress is the German term for Yellowpress.
Germans like to invent english words that do either not exist or mean something completely different in english.
E.g. public viewing. In German that means (yes, we use the english word, no idea why, would make more sense to use a German term) "to have cinema canvas at public places and project e.g. a soccer tournament on them".
Does not really help when a friend had visitors from USA and asked them: "Hey! Wanna join the public viewing this evening" - oh the horr
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If she refused to take it down after being reasonably requested to do so, prior to, or even after legal action began...
This doesnt necessarily look like a case of "my bad" when it became clear to her that she was doing something wrong...
Suppose a trespass on your property. Out in your backyard there, at one of the corners. I have a reasonable defense that I did not know that I was trespassing, once. Suppose I trespass on your property every day. Day after d
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The thing is, she wasn't doing something wrong
More sensible and honorable musicians are perfectly ok with what she did, even if they might not be totally ok with those who make those bootlegs in the first place (some are even ok with them). After all, people who listen to and buy and sell their bootlegs often are their greatest fans – who also buy all their regular stuff.
Also, if I read this right, she never was asked to retract the ebay offer, she was sued right away.
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The thing is, she wasn't doing something wrong
Not according to the law...
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As far as I remember, German courts have a track record of handing out real punishment for all kinds of copyright cases (especially when connected to filesharing with the complainants being the industry)...
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German courts have a track record of handing out real punishment for all kinds of copyright cases
Then you are completely wrong.
In Germany we do not have "punitive damages".
You pay the court/legal fees, and the damage to the copyright holder. And thats it.
As she did not do any damage, she had to pay the legal/court fees. Her fault. Should have appologized and yielded: zero money to pay.
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Yes, especially the covering legal fees part. That seems to be a disproportional punishment.
No. That's how the legal system works in most sane countries. The loser pays reasonable legal costs. It goes a long way to eliminating frivolous lawsuits and reducing abuse of the legal system.
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If the legal costs had been ridiculous, that would be worth complaining about, but $3,500 is really cheap for a copyright lawsuit.
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this seems highly unreasonable to me.
And why?
If she had not to pay, the suing side had to pay their own costs: that makes no sense
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I had always thought, without any knowledge of them, that German courts were relatively fair. This judgement is obviously hugely excessive
German courts are fair. This judgement is for $0. The courts asked her to remove the sale. She owes legal fees that she herself generated as a result of telling Clapton's legal team to sod off and sue her. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
The 250000EUR being talked about is the potential fine if she ignores the court order. The German courts don't take kindly to that.
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that German courts were relatively fair. This judgement is obviously hugely excessive ...
I think you missed the fact, that she only had to pay the legal fees
How much more fair can you be?
Wait... it's still up on eBay? (Score:2)
"if she continues to keep the recording up on eBay she'll face six months in prison or a fine of around $283,000"
Kind of a jerk move by Clapton for the $3500, but at the same time, courts really do not like being ignored. If the court ruled that the sale is illegal and the item is still up on eBay, that additional penalty seems like kind of a different issue altogether. I feel like there must be more to this story if the CD's been sitting out there waiting to be sold all this time.
Re: Wait... it's still up on eBay? (Score:2)
Yep, thought it might be like that .
I don't know how it goes in Germany, but courts in the USA really hate people who insist on going to trial when they're obviously in the wrong. Lawyers know this, and that's why over 90% of cases and disputes are solved by negotiation
I'm certain her fighting this has cost taxpayers way more than the $3500 lawyer fees that she has to pay, so not sorry for her.
The other thing is these cases are not really brought by the artist. These law firms are hired by the recor
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Yep, try getting Parole if you continue to correctly insist you didn't commit a crime you were wrongly convicted of.
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Kind of a jerk move by Clapton for the $3500
It wasn't a jerk move by Clapton. His legal team only asked for the sale to be aborted, nothing more. This German Karen told his legal team to fuck off and sue her, so they did. They asked for no damages. The $3500 was the automatic fee courts assign in a loser pays legal costs system. It would have been $0 had she not been such a shit.
Good on Clapton's legal team. Stupid bitch got what was coming to her.
Article missing some key info (of course) (Score:5, Informative)
Read this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
Apparently Clapton's lawyer contacted her. Told her it was a bootleg. Asked her to take it down. She refuses. Told them them to go jump. Then told them to sue her if they didn't like it.
So yeah. She sorta had it coming.
What evidence that Clapton himself was involved? (Score:2)
I suspect it was the company that manages his music assets. No artist has the time or expertise to do this.
Obligatory tasteless Clapton joke (Score:4, Insightful)
What's the difference between 5 kilos of coke and a 4 year old?
Eric Clapton would never let 5 kilos of coke fall out a 49th floor window. :-)
The problem is trying to profit (Score:5, Insightful)
Even in a world where information - including music from 4 decades ago - was free, I still think a performer should have the sale rights to their performances. Recreate the sheet music, recreate the performance, mix it up, whatever. But you shouldn't be permitted to sell the original performance even if all the rest were permitted.
If she'd given it away instead of trying to make a buck and telling everyone to jump off a cliff when asked to take down the auction, there'd be no discussion even today.
Easy... (Score:2)
Just post a GoFundMe for... let's see:
$3,500 of legal fees
$283,000 of fine
$10 of 1987 purchase
TOTAL = $286,510
So, anything up from there, it's profit.
Then, open a petition requesting music stores to stop selling Eric Clapton music.
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Then, open a petition requesting music stores to stop selling Eric Clapton music.
Can we just do this anyway? On humanitarian grounds?
Odie guards the dog bowl (Score:2)
..while Garfield eats right out of the bag of dog food.
but (Score:2)
but she was not selling the album she was selling the disk and forgot to wipe the album from it.
Re:Let it go, Eric (Score:5, Insightful)
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What I like about Eric Clapton is he's the right wing racist nut job whose entire career is based on copying the music of Black folk. The disconnect is pretty impressive.
He's an excellent musician who did what every other musician does. Nobody invents a completely new sound; everybody has previous music as influences.
It's as silly as saying that Beethoven didn't invent orchestras.
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Beethoven didn't engage in anti-orchestra hate speech, either.
If Beethoven had tried to get orchestra musicians kicked out of the country, you'd have a parallel.
If you just hear, "Eric Clapton said something racist" you have no idea yet what sort of horrible things he said. Click the snopes link above.
You're kind of missing the point (Score:2)
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"black folk" again? Unless you are one, it's you who are doing the "appropriating". :) (Sorry, but you sound like as white of a nerd as me, but trying to speak the argot and sounding as authentic as Hillary Clinton doing it.)
Black people are just people. They are no better and no worse than anyone else. I don't fetishize them like many seem to. I don't fetishize Clapton either, but he's a great musician, there's no denying that. But he's just a sinful human being like the rest of us - including black peop
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but he's a great musician, there's no denying that.
I deny it. He was never a great musician, not even remotely. To be recognized as a great musician requires innovation and taking risks with the art. His music is pretty much brain dead from a music academic perspective, uninspired, repetitive and adolescent. Also, Clapton's performances are notoriously devoid of showmanship. Perhaps he was once a technically competent guitar player, but that was before the heroin addiction and alcoholism. He is so musically desperate and devoid of inspiration that he had to
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What I like about Eric Clapton is he's the right wing racist nut job whose entire career is based on copying the music of Black folk. The disconnect is pretty impressive.
Exactly what part of blues is "black music"? I-IV-V chord progressions? 4/4 time? Tertian harmonies? Pentatonic scales?
Oh, wait, that all came from European folk music.
I hate to break this to you, but 90% of the elements that constitute blues comes from the hills of Ireland. Blues has nothing to do with Africa, which you'd know if you has even a passing familiarity with African music. Bagging on Clapton for "copying the music of Black folk" is pretty rich when blues itself is the result of black folk copyin
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But it's from the liberal rag Forbes so take it with a grain of salt
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Clapton is still angry that a black guy was a better guitar player than he was.
Re:Let it go, Eric (Score:5, Interesting)
No. Eric Clapton is a POS for the reasons you listed, but not because of this case. His legal team only asked she not sell the bootleg. She was a stupid shit and told them to sue her. So he did. In doing so he asked for no damages, just that the sale be blocked. She now owes nothing but legal fees she generated.
Eric Clapton is a racist twat, but this stupid shit is a German Karen and good on Clapton for following through and teaching her a life lesson: play stupid games, win stupid prizes. ... Though fuck him for being a racist twat.
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Sounds like she gambled and lost. If she had won the CD would be worth a small fortune.
Thing is, it's probably already massively pirated on the internet anyway.
I'm curious why Clapton even cares about a bootleg recording of a show he did decades ago. Probably some artistic reason, if you weren't there you don't get to experience it.
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His legal team only asked she not sell the bootleg.
Sounds like she gambled and lost. If she had won the CD would be worth a small fortune.
Adding insult to injury, now she's stuck with an Eric Clapton CD ... :-)
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Maybe it has one of his racist rants on it.
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That was my assumption as well.
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Probably because it's worth good money that she would have made off his work (instead of him). He wouldn't be out any dosh but still. It does make him look bad though.
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I'm curious why Clapton even cares about a bootleg recording of a show he did decades ago.
He probably doesn't. I wouldn't be surprised if the legal team was just pursuing all bootlegs regardless if they are monetized or cared about. That's generally how things go.
Re: Let it go, Eric (Score:2)
:-(
Tears in Heaven happened to be one of my favorite songs.
Again... :-(
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Don't worry - the Anonymous Retard probably thinks all the Moon landings (if not all space travel) are all faked somehow.
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"I think therefore I am." taken to its logical conclusion.
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I know that they DO lie about things when they really want to.
The key point here is "want to". Most of the time they don't want to, they're just "journalistic stupid". This is an experience most everyone who ever read general news talking about something they themselves know well about has quite frequently: of reading one absurdity followed by another because the journalist simply doesn't understand what they're trying to talk about. You see this happen once, twice, thrice on a topic you master (e.g, your decades-long profession), notice you're taking them seriously o
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But, I like the right wing conspiracy theories. They make a lot more sense than the bullshit the left wing tries to tell us.
Both are equally supported by the human instinct to trust narratives that fit their own emotional makeup. Right-wing conspiracies "feel right" to right-wingers because the story told fits their own, internal suspension-of-disbelief preferences. Left-wing conspiracies, similarly, "feel right" to left-wingers due to the exact same effect.
What "feels wrong", but actually is the only proper thing to do, is to refuse narratives altogether, that is, to refuse emotion, opting instead for the raw, emotionless take
Re: Let it go, Eric (Score:2)
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Jimmy Page would agree with that.
IMHO, ever since the end of the 1970's, his music has been at best 'meh' apart from his work on Leadbelly and other early blues artists.
I did see him play live at the Royal Albert Hall in London about 20 years ago. All his old stuff got the best reception especially the Cream songs.
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That's not the compliment you think it is. His earlier stuff was shite.
Re: Overrated Twat (Score:2)
Eric Clapton?
When asked who he was, I always imagine a road house in the desert, crappy bar with medium quality whisky, couple of Harleys parked in front. Gas station nearby, rusty, but working. Really loud pump, though. Old truck in front, not sure whether parked or stranded. But of both maybe.
Soft blues guitar out of the bar in the background, fades and stops. Guy comes out, loads his guitar on the back of his chopper, mounts, presses "start", puts on sunglasses and rides into the sunset.
And 30 seconds la
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In fact, he was like the third best guitarist in the Yardbirds.
The Best Ever Death Metal Band in Denton [youtube.com]
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Eric Clapton wasn't even the best guitarist in the Yardbirds.
The Joe on the street, including a lot of musicians, don't really realize that they think Clapton is really great because his record company spent a lot of money telling everybody how great he was, setting him up with the best sound engineers, buying the best songs for him to perform, paying for radio plays, paying for TV show mentions, etc.
All his big hits that he has a songwriting credit on had famous co-writers. His label liked him.
There is no question that he can finger his guitar pretty fast, and accur
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The guy is one of my childhood heroes. His music is part of the soundtrack of my life, and I admire him for defeating alcoholism and getting over his son's death.
Sadly, he went down 3 or 4 notches in my esteem. I would never have thought I'd see the day I'd find myself calling Eric Clapton a dick again (the first time being when he went all pissy when Hendricks stole his light at a concert in London). But... well, he's a bit of a dick.
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Actually I'm reading through this here Slashdot thread and discovering that he was a raging racist. To be honest, I didn't even know about that. In fact, I'm discovering I didn't really know much of anything about him. He's going down several more notches.
Oh well... Maybe I should have kept my illusions.
Re:Incredible (Score:4, Insightful)
Never meet your heroes...
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Many Artists throughout history have not been the most savory people. We're forced to, to some extent, Separate the Artist from the Art.
A few you might not want to be chumming around with:
Balthus, Riefenstahl, and Dali for starters.
Fascism is on the uptrend though, so maybe Dali or Riefenstahl could be back in vogue.
Death of the author (or 70 years thereafter) (Score:2)
In the current environment, separating the artist from the art becomes practical at the end of the 70th calendar year after the author's death.
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I wonder if he was always a dick, and you just saw something in him you wanted to see.
Probably partly that, and partly being intermediated from his fans (i.e., no social media) through most of his career.
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Clapton's really on a run to be remembered as r'n'r's biggest piece of shit ever, isn't he.
There is a lot of competition for that title.
Re:Incredible (Score:4, Insightful)
Ted Nugent has really been fighting for a shot to the title as of lately.
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500 million US dollars? Who the hell still listens to Bruce Springsteen?
Re: Superstar v Prole - who wins? (Score:2)
I do?
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So that accounts for a few dollars I guess. His music just isn't that good. A few tunes from the '80s, ok, so what? You're seriously still listening to the same old stale generic boring stuff from decades ago?
Re: Superstar v Prole - who wins? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's Saturday so I get to whine. I'm old and my wife of 40+ years is disappearing down a dementia hole. My choices are farther back than the 80s, and don't include Clapton -- I always thought he was overrated -- but sometimes I just need some comfort music.