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AI Patents The Courts United Kingdom

UK Appeals Court Rules AI Cannot Be Listed As a Patent Inventor (engadget.com) 54

The United Kingdom is the latest country to rule that an artificial intelligence can't be legally credited as an inventor. Engadget reports: Per the BBC, the UK Court of Appeal recently ruled against Dr. Stephen Thaler in a case involving the country's Intellectual Property Office. In 2018, Thaler filed two patent applications in which he didn't list himself as the creator of the inventions mentioned in the documents. Instead, he put down his AI DABUS and said the patent should go to him "by ownership of the creativity machine."

The Intellectual Property Office told Thaler he had to list a real person on the application. When he didn't do that, the agency decided he had withdrawn from the process. Thaler took the case to the UK's High Court. The body ruled against him, leading to the eventual appeal. "Only a person can have rights. A machine cannot," Lady Justice Elisabeth Laing of the Appeal Court wrote in her judgment. "A patent is a statutory right and it can only be granted to a person."
In August, an Australian Court ruled that an AI can be recognized as an inventor in a patent submission. However, a U.S. District Judge ruled earlier this month that a computer using AI can't be listed as an inventor on patents because only a human can be an inventor under U.S. law.
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UK Appeals Court Rules AI Cannot Be Listed As a Patent Inventor

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  • by kot-begemot-uk ( 6104030 ) on Friday September 24, 2021 @05:31AM (#61827563) Homepage
    Hal, put your signature on the patent application
    I am sorry Dave, I can't do that
  • ...oh, and don't forget to pay taxes!

    • by gtall ( 79522 )

      Were that were so for corporations. You want to be people, pay up like the rest of us.

    • How much of the acrylic statue should they cut off and return as taxes? That's what most corporate sponsored patent filers get, before they sign the patent over to the company they work for as part of their employment contract.

  • by nagora ( 177841 ) on Friday September 24, 2021 @05:43AM (#61827577)

    Mr Thaler (no idea where "Dr Thaler" comes from) wants to have the invention registered as being created by an artificial lifeform but for himself to the owner because he created the AI. Since the AI's not getting a say in this, basically Thaler wants to legalise slavery with him as the first of a new type of slave owner.

    On the other hand, Thaler is full of shit.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by gtall ( 79522 )

      I suspect dear Dr Thaler envisions an army of bots that he controls submitting wads of patent applications with him as owner. It seems to be merely a grab for money via gaming the system. Just another grifter.

      • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        It's a publicity stunt. If he somehow created such an army of bots then he could just put his own name on the patents and there would be no problem.

        He probably wants to get his "AI's" name on some patents so he can advertise that fact and get dumb people to buy it from him for their dreamed of army of bots.

      • by larwe ( 858929 )
        Absolutely. This would be kinda like how automated copyright strike systems work today; it would open the floodgates for an army of automated patent troll bots and nobody would ever be safe from attack by meaningless drivel patents. Not to mention that it would overwhelm the Patent Office, which already has very long service times. Hmm. Unless the Patent Office retaliates by creating an army of patent review bots? And in which case, if the entire patent system is one set of bots fighting another set of bots
        • Strictly speaking you only need one patent review bot:

          if (applicant.isBot())
                return REJECTED;
          else
                forward(application, nextFreePatentOfficer);

      • Will there be sharkbots? With lasers?

    • by Jezral ( 449476 )

      Mr Thaler (no idea where "Dr Thaler" comes from) ...

      He has a PhD, so he is rightfully titled as Dr.

      • by nagora ( 177841 )

        Mr Thaler (no idea where "Dr Thaler" comes from) ...

        He has a PhD, so he is rightfully titled as Dr.

        Ah, right. I found it.

        Well, they need to take that PhD off him as he's clearly an idiot as well as an asshole.

        • by gweihir ( 88907 )

          Ah, right. I found it.

          Well, they need to take that PhD off him as he's clearly an idiot as well as an asshole.

          Indeed.

      • Only to polish his ego. We have 92K phds in the US and from those I've known, it's not that impressive a feat.
    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      It's even worse than that.

      Did he program it from scratch, or is it like a neural network where he trained it with training data?

      Technically speaking, if training data was used, the input's authors need to be credited on that patent document as well, unless you can prove that the AI didn't use that particular input in formulating its output.

  • All software processes require DATA to make something. Where did that DATA come from? For innovation?
    • All software processes require DATA to make something.

      Biological processes also involve input.

      • by atol ( 620255 )
        Whith this world being a virtual world, claiming to be 'biological' with all those biologicals been tortured and killed is a dangerous path to take. The data a.k.a input is PAINFULL! Well one reaps what one seeds.
      • by atol ( 620255 )
        And being flesh and blood biological I can tell you: NO IT DOESN'T, it can magically come up with solutions on it's own out of thin air.
        • And being flesh and blood biological I can tell you: NO IT DOESN'T, it can magically come up with solutions on it's own out of thin air.

          Someone should probably let you know that the founder of the breathairians was caught repeatedly at fast food restaurants, specifically McDonalds and Burger King on Mission St. (this went down in Santa Cruz, because of course it did. if California fell into the ocean* then Santa Cruz would be fine because there's a wingnut holding down every corner.)

          * yeah yeah, wrong kind of fault

        • And being flesh and blood biological I can tell you: NO IT DOESN'T, it can magically come up with solutions on it's own out of thin air.

          I can assure you it does. Just because someone can't say how they came up with a solution, that solution was indeed based on data inputs the person received over their lifetime.

          A baby one day saying "mama" obviously does not know how it came to say that, but all the inputs it received from mama allowed it to happen.
          • Pedantry in comparison of humans and a software system is doomed to fail. You cannot list, except in generalities, the inputs to the human's "construction".

            Perhaps it was daddy, or auntie or grandma who triggered the vocalization, Just like the baby, you do not know. You guessed. But you can list in detail the inputs to the AI. In fact, you could keep a log.

            Here's the failure: "come up with solutions on it's own out of thin air" doesn't refer to the reams of data accumulated during the life time
    • by mysidia ( 191772 )

      Where did that DATA come from?

      Random number generator for creating random permutations of attributes plus Rote "Test condition" (Or inputs received from a team or process dedicated to giving an answer such as a Yes/No, whether result is good or bad) plus Model trained from previous inventions to derive new model.

  • by 3247 ( 161794 ) on Friday September 24, 2021 @06:42AM (#61827681) Homepage

    We already knew that. An artificial intelligence is not a human being, so it can't be an inventor, author, designer, photographer, etc. It has no actual intellect and cannot create intellectual property.

    • I understand today that what marketing people call "AI" are usually just jazzed up standard algorithms, and in the best case a genetic algorithm or some form of rudimentary machine learning, but imagine a day where we have machines that are far more sophisticated and do express desires, can decide to write their own fiction in their "down time", etc. What then? Do you ever see a point in time where that argument can no longer be made?
      • Not until you can show that those "desires" aren't initiated by human doping of data or processing.

        Why would a valuable machine sit idle (down time)?
    • by mysidia ( 191772 )

      An artificial intelligence is not a human being, so it can't be an inventor

      Eh? Not so obvious. What about non-human intelligences. Such as the first non-human animal who found a stick and figured out they could repurpose that as a tool for hunting food; that particular one may be not patentable at this point, but still invention.

      It has no actual intellect and cannot create intellectual property.

      Not all AI work in the same how. How do you know that an AI has no intellect? Perhaps you are wrong and so

      • I wondered if I would see a vegan animal rights comment in this discussion. Trying to equate animals and AI, and thinking that humans should be subservient to them. You could be a troll, or you could be a candidate for Darwinian elimination if a sufficiently large natural or man made disaster shut down all the supermarkets and supplementary vitamin manufacturers.

        • by mysidia ( 191772 )

          I wondered if I would see a vegan animal rights comment in this discussion.

          Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm no vegan and eat mainly meats.

          Trying to equate animals and AI, and thinking that humans should be subservient

          No... Not equating Animals and AI, but using an example of something an animal's done before as a counterexample which contradicts and therefore Proves false the notion that the capability to Invent/Create is exclusive to humans.

          Certain animals are a possible example of a Non-Human intellig

      • found a stick

        Not an invention. The "tool" was found, not invented.

        How do you know that an AI has no intellect?

        "No intellect" is the default. There have been no machines with intellect. You must first show the intellect.

        an act of creativity was emitted from

        After you've shown the intellect, that should be much easier to accept. Complexity of thought, action and communication would be a good start. A discussion of the creation with it's creator yielding further detail and insight into the how and whys

        • And just to cover a lot of bases at once, any "tool" you can find another phylum using (building shelter, throwing things, smashing things with other things, etc.) cannot count as an invention.
        • by mysidia ( 191772 )

          Not an invention. The "tool" was found, not invented.

          No. The branch/stick is a raw material - the actual tool is the sharpened stick which animals have found out they could make by breaking pieces off the raw material and further manipulating it, so as to sharpen it. Just because you've known about such things before (early humans also invented it) does not mean it's not an invention for them.

          "No intellect" is the default. There have been no machines with intellect.

          It seems you're essentially saying th

    • But the real question is who can own the patent of a product made by an AI.

      If I were to download an AI software, and buy a computer powerful enough to handle it. Then I had hired a programmer to put in my parameters. Which the AI came up with an invention. Who would have the rights?
      The designers of the AI software, had built the brains behind the invention.
      The hardware maker made it so the calculations can be done
      The programmer took my crazy high level idea and put in the real details to make it work.
      and

      • I think the simple answer is to just not award a patent. Its not like a patent is a physical law - something new invented, patent pops out of the ether. If there's no inventor, there's no patent.

        Lets face it though, patents are awarded to whoever files the claim so the question is moot. You create the claim, you own the patent. Doesn't matter who helped you do it (just ask Edison).

      • My parents don't own the rights to things I patent. If I write something on the back of an envelope then the manufacturer of the envelope doesn't get the patent.
    • by larwe ( 858929 )
      True, but there are a lot of interesting edge cases to think about. Do you remember when someone gave a monkey a camera, the monkey took a selfie with it, and PETA sued to have the monkey assigned copyright of the photo? https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/24/17271410/monkey-selfie-naruto-slater-copyright-peta [theverge.com]. Obviously they were just trolling along with their own agenda there, but there are definitely interesting edge cases. For example, I take a picture of a mountain lion. My photo, my copyright. But what if
      • But ...I set up ... when it detects mountain lions?

        Doesn't matter. Your stuff. You set up. Yours. Example for #1 you could have looked up now.

        organic components implementing the AI

        Did you just sneak in the definition of AI being an actual sentient being? Helluva jump from numbers one and two.

        If not, same as before, your stuff. If so, its obvious the AI lost it's court case and is enslaved to managing people's hobby data. So, still yours.

  • I fail to understand what possible advantage the guy gets out of filing the application with the AI listed as inventor, instead of simply listing himself.

    The way I see it, an AI is a tool. He made a tool to create something. It sounds to me like he invented whatever the tool invented. Exactly like you wouldn't list your milling machine as the inventor if you programmed it to machine some revolutionary gear profile or something.

    • I think the difference here is that he didn't come up with the invention on his own and program the milling machine. Using AI usually involves the computer figuring out something that humans can't find a solution to. Look at Alpha Go. Prior to using AI, having human coders do the coding, even the best of computerized Go players couldn't beat mediocre human players. But once Alpha Go was left to it's own devices to figure out how to beat people, it very quickly got much better than some of the best human pla

    • by mysidia ( 191772 )

      I fail to understand what possible advantage the guy gets out of filing the application with the AI listed as inventor

      It seem like a backdoor method of setting a precedent which will allow more patents to be entertained which might otherwise be considered invalid because not an invention, And also simultaneously set a new standard that the owner of a machine gets rights to anything that machine puts out which may be useful IP (Even though the human had little or nothing to do in that act of creation). If

    • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      He probably wants to sell it.

      My AI holds over a dozen patents! You can have a slave that generates patents for you too, just six easy payments of $999.99!

    • The AI was not the tool in this example.
    • I fail to understand what possible advantage the guy gets out of filing the application with the AI listed as inventor, instead of simply listing himself.

      It is very simple: Dr. Thaler does not want to be the inventor of a stupid "Food Container" and probably even less of "Devices and Methods for Attracting Enhanced Attention" (a flashing light!) -- which is what his "AI" "invented".

      Dr. Thaler wants to be the inventor of the inventing and patenting AI.

  • If you have enough brains to come up with something patentable and you waste the opportunity because you think your AI is smarter than you.

  • I would have thought copyright lobby would have been on this enmasse. If the AI would have been granted to be composer/inventor it would in efect have been never ending copyright would it not? If copyright ends after x years of authors death it should be possible to store the ai on a usb stick and its immortal.
  • We the tax payers created intellectual property rights. And we are paying for the enforcement of all property rights, including intellectual property rights, using judiciary and law enforcement agencies. The reasoning behind it is, This will provide incentive for innovative thinkers, creative people to solve complex problems and create art works. The cost of creating and enforcing patented monopolies for limited duration, copyrights for a limited duration, is worth the benefits that will accrue to all of us
  • by petes_PoV ( 912422 ) on Friday September 24, 2021 @08:39AM (#61827923)
    So if Dr Thaler claims that an AI created this invention and the courts decided that only a person can receive the benefits of patent protection then it seems to me that whatever was produced does not qualify as a patentable thing.

    You can see the reasoning behind the decision. Could an AI sue someone for patent infringement or negotiate a licensing deal? Could an AI be punished if their patent was found to be plagiarised or illegal?

  • So, one of the inventions seems to be an interlocking food container. If the AI decided that the world needed an interlocking food container and then set to work working out how to make it before presenting its solution, I can see how this should be seen as the inventor.

    Somehow though I suspect all it actually did was experiment with a bunch of shapes. It probably did this in a much more efficient method than a brute force search of all possible shapes, but ultimately it's still just searching for a value
  • So, what pronoun does the AI use? When will AI be allowed to marry? Does the 2nd amendment cover AI?

    Seriously, please stop this madness before it even starts.

  • As they stand right now, we don't have any kind of generalized AI. We have to train a neural network to do one thing well and nothing else. We're nowhere near generalized AI or this whole argument being relevant. This is only relevant with a system complex enough that not only does it have the potential to be but has become sentient and sophont. Even then parents et al may not be relevant, depending on the form and function that intelligence takes. E.g. what does a gestalt care for one individual?

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