Are the Ultra-Wealthy Renouncing US Citizenship to Avoid Taxes? (axios.com) 168
"In 2017, it emerged that Silicon Valley billionaire Peter Thiel had been able to gain New Zealand citizenship six years earlier," reports the Associated Press, "despite never having lived in the country."
Thiel was approved after a top lawmaker decided his entrepreneurial skills and philanthropy were valuable to the nation. Thiel didn't even have to leave California for the ceremony — he was granted citizenship during a private ceremony held at the New Zealand Consulate in Santa Monica.
But he's not the only one, Axios reports. "A lot of people who take this drastic step are tech zillionaires: Eric Schmidt, the former Alphabet CEO, has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus..." The number of Americans who renounced their citizenship in favor of a foreign country hit an all-time high in 2020: 6,707, a 237% increase over 2019... The people who flee tend to be ultra-wealthy, and many of them are seeking to reduce their tax burden...
Only the U.S. and Eritrea tax people based on citizenship rather than residency. For most countries, if you are a citizen but don't reside there, you aren't taxed in that country.
The IRS publishes a quarterly list of the names of people who have renounced their citizenship or given up their green cards... But the Wall Street Journal discovered that the lists aren't up to date: A lot of people who were reported to have renounced citizenship in 2020 actually did so years earlier.
Axios also points out that U.K. prime minister Boris Johnson was actually born in America, but only lived there as a small child, and subsequently renounced his U.S. citizenship.
But he's not the only one, Axios reports. "A lot of people who take this drastic step are tech zillionaires: Eric Schmidt, the former Alphabet CEO, has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus..." The number of Americans who renounced their citizenship in favor of a foreign country hit an all-time high in 2020: 6,707, a 237% increase over 2019... The people who flee tend to be ultra-wealthy, and many of them are seeking to reduce their tax burden...
Only the U.S. and Eritrea tax people based on citizenship rather than residency. For most countries, if you are a citizen but don't reside there, you aren't taxed in that country.
The IRS publishes a quarterly list of the names of people who have renounced their citizenship or given up their green cards... But the Wall Street Journal discovered that the lists aren't up to date: A lot of people who were reported to have renounced citizenship in 2020 actually did so years earlier.
Axios also points out that U.K. prime minister Boris Johnson was actually born in America, but only lived there as a small child, and subsequently renounced his U.S. citizenship.
Why not if you can? (Score:3, Insightful)
If you had quite a lot of money, why wouldn't you go to a country where you could keep more of it?
Although I'm not actually sure that's true of New Zealand, high tech workers are just going there because it's the best place to ride out a global collapse.
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They want you to treat your national identity like a religious identity and expect you to have a sense of duty whether or not you achieve a strategic citizen benefit from living where you were born (usually).
This is confusing religion with government, which always leads to hellacious outcomes.
The calculation could be argued to be different for immigrants.
Why not pay your fair share? (Score:2)
("It's a dupe, Jim." Same story ran a couple of days ago.)
Actually, the answer should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. Cheaters sometimes prosper, at least on the short term. You don't become super-rich unless you're super-greedy, too. But the funny part is how those same wealthy bastards are the first to criticize free riders and other poor scum.
However, insofar as their so-called wealth depends on national infrastructure and national investments, I think this is a situation where puniti
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If you want to hold your wealth in American dollars, but you are not an American citizen, then you should pay a special tax premium for the privilege.
Now you are just being silly. How is the US government going to know who is holding its cash? Not to mention the huge crash in the US dollar's val
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But I'll just say that your comment seems incomprehensible.
That does not surprise me. I'm sorry that you do not understand what a reserve currency is of that other countries carry foreign reserves of other country's currency for a variety of reasons. I'm not going to try and explain that here but please Google it and educate yourself about it and perhaps you'll then understand for yourself why trying to tax anyone who holds US dollars is a really stupid idea. But, hey, I'm not a US citizen and don't live in the US so I don't really care: tank your economy and cras
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Your point or position is unclear.
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Sorry, your only communication was "I am rude."
I vaguely remembered your handle as one worth ignoring. I'll thank you to extend the reciprocal courtesy.
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The vast majority of us already do.
Most people don't own corporations and don't have the option funneling all their income through a low tax country where the only corporate office is a PO box, so they pay the taxes in the country where they earn their money.
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Dotted lines on a map are no basis for a moral system!
Who cares where someone is born, it's utterly irrelevant, and yet we seem to treat this as a significant factor in many countries. Loyalty to the birthplace above all. The fact is, we are more attune to a very local area much more than to a larger country. The reason we stick around in a country is because of language and system differences - ie, the people on the other side of the dotted line speak funny, and you can't transfer your bank account ther
Re:Hard to ignore the writing on the wall. (Score:5, Insightful)
So I actually did relinquish my US citizenship. And I probably count as vaguely well off, though not "ultra-wealthy". I didn't quite make that "2 million plus" list, but I might have made it a year or two later.
So I'd like to let you know one of the things that pushed me over the edge. What was it? It was the US electing Trump to anything, let alone freaking President, that's what it was.
You fucking elected Donald. Fucking. Trump. Fucking. President. A man who was a world-famous deadbeat, a world-famous asshole, a world-famous blowhard, and a world-famous idiot, and a widely suspected crook, before he ever became a candidate. A man who said he was going to do a bunch of stupid things, and then went on to actually do a bunch of stupid things, while being cheered by a giant mob of morons.
Who the fuck would want to stay associated with that?
I mean, it wasn't really a "but for Trump" thing, and I'd been planning to get around to it pre-Trump. But Trump sure as hell made me more confident I was doing the right thing.
As for taxes, I didn't find I actually had to pay very much in US taxes. Maybe a few hundred one year, a thousand another, but in my particular case foreign tax credits eliminated most of my US tax. I did, however, have to file a bunch of mind-numbingly obnoxious tax paperwork. And that paperwork was clearly designed with the assumption the only reason to leave the US in the first place was obviously to avoid taxes. And I have to admit I was happy to be rid of that paperwork.
But that paperwork, and the underlying weird expatriate taxation system, was just a symptom of a whole set of narrow, obnoxious, jingoistic ideas and assumptions. Those ideas and assumptions were there way before Trump, and Trump was another symptom. But they weren't getting better and they seemed to be getting worse.
There was the assumption that I was US property, so, for one example among many, the US had the right to tell me whether I could write crypto code overseas. The assumption that the US was better than anywhere else, and at the same time didn't have to live up to the same standards applied to anywhere else. The assumption that anybody who'd leave the US was some kind of fool or criminal. The assumption that US interests (as interpreted, of course, by some very specific classes of people within the US) were more important than mine, or other people's, or other countries'. The assumption that I was supposed to get all choked up about a fucking flag. ... and the idea that people who DID claim to get all choked up about a fucking flag were then entitled to spit on the ideals that supposedly, theoretically, even they claimed, defined what the US was about. A set of ideals which did not, by the way,include joining cults built around ignorance and hucksterism.
Maybe there are some "ultra-wealthy" for whom the actual taxes paid matter a lot... but maybe some other "ultra-wealthy" are just sick of the US' bullshit like the rest of us?
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Because we never elected Florida Man before :-)
Never elected an incompetent idiot before. Sure we elected incompetents, and we have elected idiots, but never any incompetent idiot.
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So I actually did relinquish my US citizenship.
I would genuinely, sincerely like to hear some more about your expat experience, how you chose your new home country, etc. I am unlikely to renounce my US citizenship, but I do wish to live abroad in the near future.
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You fucking elected Donald. Fucking. Trump.
Has anyone done a paternity test on any of his alledged children? If not,
we only have his word he's any good at fucking.
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He's the only president so far who felt the need to go on national TV to defend the size of his genitals.
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There was the assumption that I was US property, so, for one example among many, the US had the right to tell me whether I could write crypto code overseas. The assumption that the US was better than anywhere else, and at the same time didn't have to live up to the same standards applied to anywhere else. The assumption that anybody who'd leave the US was some kind of fool or criminal. The assumption that US interests (as interpreted, of course, by some very specific classes of people within the US) were more important than mine, or other people's, or other countries'. The assumption that I was supposed to get all choked up about a fucking flag. ... and the idea that people who DID claim to get all choked up about a fucking flag were then entitled to spit on the ideals that supposedly, theoretically, even they claimed, defined what the US was about. A set of ideals which did not, by the way,include joining cults built around ignorance and hucksterism.
Maybe there are some "ultra-wealthy" for whom the actual taxes paid matter a lot... but maybe some other "ultra-wealthy" are just sick of the US' bullshit like the rest of us?
This.
When you're caught up in the system you have no idea how obnoxious is it, or how genuinely free and relaxed you can feel after you get out of it.
TLDR: "Land of the free" is a joke compared to many other countries.
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TLDR: "Land of the free" is a joke compared to many other countries.
From an outside point of view, there are two freedoms:
a) if you are not a mental ill - you can have a gun
b) you are free to get shot at at random places and occasions, as even mental ill ones manage to get a gun and try it on you
c) (oh is that number 3?) the police is free to shot anyone they want to, double bonus points if he is black (do hispanics also give bonus points?)
Actually not a sane country anyone with out a "special business plan
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Election of Trump as one of the reasons for leaving? Seems childish. The system is not perfect, but it is self-correcting. Afterall, it's a repeated game.
Agree of paperwork / paternalism issue.
Find your distaste for "fucking flag" insulting. US *is* exceptional, and the flag represents the sacrifices paid by many to keep it that way.
Good riddance.
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Once you have renounced your citizenship, you cannot be a US citizen anymore. The best you can do it get a green card.
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I read through the "grass is always greener", and when it comes down to it, one realizes that every other place has their own issues. Some of them resemble ours, others uniquely theirs. Thing is, does everyone adopt the same solution and we play global musical chairs hoping we'll find that one chair that will never change.
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I'm the one who wrote it. You're making some assumptions there. Like you're assuming that I didn't live in the new place for like 12 years, paying careful attention to the local conditions and idiosyncracies, before ditching the US citizenship. Which is what I did.
That's why I had plans before Trump got elected, and why I know what my US taxes looked like while living outsided the US.
And, no, the new place is not perfect, but it's better than the US, and is likely to stay that way for long enough that any c
Re: Hard to ignore the writing on the wall. (Score:2)
12 years. Switzerland perhaps, given the pa to citizenship takes about that long? ;-)
Iâ(TM)m in roughly the same boat as you were, although having moved to DK a few years back Iâ(TM)ll be a few years before I get citizenship and thus am able to relinquish. Your comments resonate, a lot.
Re:Hard to ignore the writing on the wall. (Score:4, Interesting)
The grass sometimes is greener. But for many, myself included, moving to a new country is an adventure, a learning experience and intrinsically worth it. I'll be doing it again.
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It’s not always about the colour of the grass, but it’s composition. Their will always be weeds, but in many cases you’ll get to enjoy the flowers.
For some people, even if the grass isn’t greener it may be closer to their ideals. The one thing though is go and explore the other side, at least you’ll be in a better position to make a comparison and decision.
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Sarcasm aside there's one real truth. Not all problems can be ran away from. Climate change, pandemics, human nature, and so forth. Some things just have to be faced and dealt with.
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Sarcasm aside there's one real truth. Not all problems can be ran away from. Climate change, pandemics, human nature, and so forth. Some things just have to be faced and dealt with.
The USA is one of the worst places to live if you have to deal with those things.
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There are many worse places to be if talking about climate change than the US. A few small island nations and countries where there is not enough land mass for people to shift come to mind.
Pandemic.... I would think countries without even the basic means to combat pandemics are in a tougher spot than the US. Poor choices by some of the citizenry aside.
Human nature is everywhere as humans are everywhere.
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There are many worse places to be if talking about climate change than the US.
To suffer the effects? Yes.
I meant more the "dealing with it" part. At least 50% of the USA are climate-deniers.
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That assertion that at least 50% of Americans are climate deniers is a bit of a stretch.
Most people believe that climate change is real.
Most people believe that it is man-made.
Where there has been an issue is that the propaganda against climate change has been very strong and large numbers of people believe there is no scientific consensus on the causes of climate change.
https://climatecommunication.y... [yale.edu]
According to the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication Over time [2008-2020] 60-73% of Americans
Re: Hard to ignore the writing on the wall. (Score:2)
Oh? Know a much of them personally, do you? Hang out in ratified air so that you feel qualified to make such statements?
Or perhaps youâ(TM)re just another half-witted troll making assumptions to fit your preconceived notions on the internetâ¦
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The harassment the US is doing to all its citizens abroad make every country better than the US to be frank. Also, it's fucking Obama who decided the US was legitimate to strong arm every bank on the planet to spy for them and report all banking interests of all US citizens in every country on the globe.
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Giving sound reasons to despise someone as a president is not the same thing as a "derangement".
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So, Extremesis,
After everything that happened - one question: Do you now regret voting for Trump? Please keep in mind that all the crap (the Big Lie, etc.) hasn't even all played out yet.
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If you had quite a lot of money, there's a good chance a good bit of it is already parked beyond reach. Ah, you say, but the wealth tax could reach them. However, you'd have to first find the wealth, and the wealthy have all the tools to hide it from any wealth tax. This story is just click bait and an attempt to pour gasoline on the federal deficit fires.
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Re: Why not if you can? (Score:2)
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A few thousand miles of water actually makes a pretty good defense, tbh.
In the event of an actual global collapse, both the USA and China will be too busy trying to look after their own to worry about going overseas to conquer some other nation that hasn't done them any harm.
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Uhh, good luck with that New Zealand has a very high taxation rate. Income taxes are high. The tax is 39% on income above NZ$60,000 (US$30,000) with virtually no deductions or wonky loopholes like the US tax system. ... There is a general sales tax of 12.5% on everything.
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But no capital gains tax.
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Oh, ok, you're right. I didn't know that. But it looks like they recently added one for people who sell their homes within 10 years (which seems like a bad idea because it will discourage home sales and cause housing prices to rise). Also, the fact that they recently did added that law shows that the capital gains tax law may suddenly change.
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"If you had quite a lot of money, why wouldn't you go to a country where you could keep more of it?"
No for quite a few reasons, but fundamentally because I am not driven by pure self-interest, as you are SuperKendall. The fact that you can only think of yourself and what you are getting is why you can't understand this.
"...high tech workers are just going there because it's the best place to ride out a global collapse."
LOL, and no doubt you are an expert in this matter as well.
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Taxing people because of citizenship not residency is stupid. if your going to be stupid people will work around it. A drop in the bucket making up for all the expats still sending checks back to the fatherland while living in the UK or whatever.
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New Zealand does not have capital gains taxes.
Re: Why not if you can? (Score:5, Insightful)
Kamala Harris is the most unpopular VP in 50 years.
Really? I haven't heard of any mobs of Biden supporters trying to hang her.
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If you can, you should. If you are a self made tech zillionaire (the snobbery in this article is astounding), you probably make better decisions about allocating capital than the federal government.
This tells us that we could take every cent that a billionaire has, and they'd make it all back because of their superior work ethic and brilliant business minds in another year or two. Luck? No way - they are billionaires because they are simply smarter than the stupid people who aren't, , and better people anyhow. If everyone was like the billionaires that are out there now, we would all be billionaires, amirite?
I'd love to see someone take that challenge. Give up all the money. Change your name. Become a billionaire again.
I believe you would say they would succeed.
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You don't have to consider this hypothetical. You can look at people like Andy Rubin, who created Android then went on to a string of failures like the Essential Phone with $1billion in funding. Or even a restaurant which also failed. He also started a kind of tech incubator (which was really cool), but I don't think any of them went on to success.
On the other hand there are some successes, like Marc Andreessen who has done quite well in subsequent startups. Of course Elon Musk is there, too. That doesn't m
Re: Why not if you can? (Score:2)
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I am more interested in WHY you think you have the right to take anything from anyone?
I believe in proving the thesis. You get triggerd by taking it? The intrpid billionaire could just give it away to prove me wrong.
I suggest that since they can start from broke - they give it away - Why not? Seems that the impetus that causes their destiny to be a billionaire is inherent, and inexorable fact, they could give it all away, and eventually, it doesn't matter. A billionaire once again.
Seems like a challenge - a 21st century version of the old movie Trading Places.
Doing more for the economy (Score:2)
You'd think after 18+ months of being told to die for the economy [vanityfair.com] by our "betters" we'd have figured that out. GDP != human happiness and/or well being.
To address your last point, just because bad policy can win elections doesn't make it good policy. Vlad Putin and Kim Jon Un won their elecitons in landslides. Stalin was surprisingly popular even though his Lamarkian bullshit agriculture policies killed over 7 million. Same for good 'ole Chairman Mao.
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won their elecitons in landslides
Did they really? Hmm... [theguardian.com] Interesting indeed. [euvsdisinfo.eu] Yep, looks very trustworthy to me!
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I guess this is typical american primary school propaganda.
Stalin was surprisingly popular even though his Lamarkian bullshit agriculture policies killed over 7 million.
Lamark lived ~200 years before Stalin. And certainly has nothing to do with Stalins politics.
At that time we had harsh winters and bad weather. In Germany also 2 million starved to death after the end of WWII.
So: no idea what Stalins politics has to do with it.
Same for good 'ole Chairman Mao.
Same as above. Mao had no special agrarian politic
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Lamark lived ~200 years before Stalin. And certainly has nothing to do with Stalins politics.
Someone doesn't know their Soviet history [encyclopedia.com]. This is a critique of a command economy (like in communism). It is a valid critique as the Chinese made the same mistakes. Your bias is showing comrade. You are free to try to immigrate to China and learn what it is like under the CCP.
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This American who went to public schools seems to know far more about history than you. Hell, there are 6 year olds who learn all their history from YouTube who know more about history than you
Unlikely.
I gave you a short summary, not a PhD thesis.
If you want to know more about it, just educate yourself.
Claiming that Stalin and Mao had a special agrarian politics that killed millions is just nonsense. Why would they do that? More surprising: there are actually people like you who "believe" that nonsense.
Re: Why not if you can? (Score:3)
Read the article you linked and you'll see you only pay exit tax if you meet three specific conditions. The third being simply certifying you're compliant with paying taxes for the previous give years.
Not a tax cheat? No exit tax, just a small fee.
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They don't want to read, they just want to throw citations at the wall.
They're mad that the "Deep State" didn't let Trump have a coup, they didn't get to send me to a death camp, they didn't get to enslave anybody.
Reading will not salve their feeling of loss.
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Exit tax is not unique to the US
Germany had an exit tax that generated substantial tax revenue for the government in the late 1930s.
Are they? (Score:2)
https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/08/05/2121201/wealthy-people-are-renouncing-american-citizenship
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They're renouncing their citizenship to avoid dups ...
None of this would be necessary... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:None of this would be necessary... (Score:5, Funny)
But the United States is special.
I'm afraid I can't explain Eritrea.
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I'm afraid I can't explain Eritrea.
Eritrea is a repressive totalitarian military dictatorship with a rock bottom quality of life index. Human Rights Watch [wikipedia.org] lists Eritrea as dead last.
By comparison, North Korea looks attractive.
Re:None of this would be necessary... (Score:4, Interesting)
The USA is also unusual in giving citizenship to anyone born in the country, regardless of the citizenship of their parents. And they do not allow children to renounce citizenship.
So just by being born in US territory, you will be given US citizenship whether you want it or not. You can't get rid of it until you're legally an adult. And as long as you have it, you have to send the IRS a ton of paperwork (even if you don't owe them a cent).
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And [the US does] not allow children to renounce citizenship.
Which is correct. When you turn 18 you now have the choice to remain a US citizen, and come back if you desire.
This is not stop them from going elsewhere with their parents or becoming a citizen elsewhere with dual citizenship, but just gives them an option to escape back to the US as an adult.
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Like the Bailey Savings & Loan
"That'll close out my account."
"No, no. You're account's still good here. That's just a loan."
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I think it's mostly from our origin as a nation of invading peoples. I mean colonists, sorry, I get those confused.
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Because two or three centuries ago, there weren't a lot of "nations" and the notion of who is a citizen or not wasn't that important. If no one votes, and everyone pays taxes when forced to, then it's irrelevant if the someone is a citizen versus a different sort of resident. In the past, a country was defined by who the ruler was; who was your monarch. When various places decided to become nations, it was generally assumed that if you lived there and your ancestors had lived there then clearly you were a
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The USA is also unusual in giving citizenship to anyone born in the country
that is not unusual at all. Many countries do that. Even Germany - albeit in a somewhat limited way - does that.
Meh, they want their holdings protected (Score:3)
Or are they not gonna complain the next time a revolution happens and the locals seize their factories? No? Then shut up and pay your taxes or stop being a US citizen. And remember, you're not a citizen so we're under no obligation to bail you out.
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I think it is even more weird, but not sure I'm right:
AFAIK, you have to declare your income AND obviously have to file a tax declaration for that, BUT: you are not taxed for the income - as you are already taxed in/by the country you are living in.
But bottom line you have to file two tax reports. Bottom line they try to assess how much wealth you are accumulating, in the hope to tax you later when you come back the USA.
“It’s time for the rich to pay their f (Score:2, Interesting)
"I left Gage Whitney making $400,000 a year, which means I paid 27 times the national average in income tax.
I paid my fair share, and the fair share of 26 other people. And I’m happy to, ’cause that’s the only way it’s gonna work. And it’s in my best interest that everybody be able to go to schools and drive on roads.
But I don’t get 27 votes on Election Day. The fire department doesn’t come to my house 27 times faster and the water doesn’t come out of my fauce
Are they less smart than former president? (Score:4, Funny)
He did not need to quit US to pay no taxes, eh?
Is it true though? (Score:4, Interesting)
Is it true though? There are a lot of ideas that get thrown out there by people with an agenda because they want it to be true, or their agenda would be supported if it were true.
"California is going down the tubes."
"People and businesses are fleeing the state, and quality of life is in freefall with drug addicts roaming the street stealing at will while the police watch helplessly, and democrats are disarming the citizens."
I mean I don't want to say that this is totally unfounded. I do know a few people who have moved to Idaho or other supposedly freer states. And California legislators are constantly chipping away at the 2nd amendment by enacting more and more gun restrictions, so that part is true.
But I have been hearing about flight from California for 20 years or so. There are still a lot of people and businesses here in California. So I take it all with a grain of salt.
I would advise people to also take this whole citizenship renouncement trend with a very large grain of salt also. It may just be one of those trends that some people exaggerate because it serves their agenda.
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Possibly worth noting; Moving Truck rentals are seeing a wild disparity between moving away from CA vs moving TO CA. They can run you thousands of dollars even if your moving a single state away. But from across country TO california can be a few hundred.
Putting that aside, however, if you were going to open up a "non-essential" business and you had a choice between CA and, say, TX; which would you choose? Or FL?
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Mwahahahahahaha! (Score:2)
Apparently the ultra-wealthy have found a way to prevent Slashdot from posting anything but dupes, ruining it as a forum of communication.
FWIW (Score:2)
An American permanently moving to France still has to file US taxes and pay the US government if they deemed that the French ones weren't high enough.
Not the worst of it (Score:2)
...when you read up on what distinguishes a brilliant scientist who invents the tech achievements from the tech businessman that employs the scientist, you realize the bulk of them renounced simply humanity a long time ago. Find "Accidental Empires" by Robert X Cringely, about the first fortunes. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are examined in some detail. It's not about consuming evil or anything, they're just good at using people, manipulating people, and completely ruthless about taking advantage of sit
Ironic because... (Score:2)
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US started as a tax dodge for wealthy Europeans. The whole democracy thing was just a way to sell the war to the people who had to die in it.
Well, in fairness during that period, kings could just chop off the head of anyone they didn't like. European governments of that era regularity decided that some group or person was a traitor just so they could take their stuff to pay off debts [wikipedia.org]. But those were Jews so I guess that's why you never learn about it in history class? So perhaps there were other reasons for us leaving Europe. Oh, and we did ask for representation in parliament and the British refused. 150 years later, we used the loans of t
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Didn't happen (Score:3)
Nobody but nobody goes to New Zealand to avoid taxes. If some billionaire got New Zealand citizenship, it's because they have other motives.
Thiel is leaving to avoid tax? (Score:2)
Does he pay any significant tax to begin with [propublica.org]?
It goes both ways (Score:2)
Wealthy people from other countries are paying big bucks to become US citizens.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/w... [pbs.org]
Some come, some go. This has always been true. Is it really happening more than usual now, or did some author just notice half of the trend and want to write a story to try to get some ad impressions?
Not so fast... (Score:2)
IRS, Expatriation Tax [irs.gov]
It used to be that you would have to pay for ten years regardless if you were found to have renounced in order to avoid taxes.
Personally, I don't understand the tax avoidance. These people have benefitted handsomely from living here. Back in the 1940's, when adults were running the show, we had a top tax rate at 70
A Moot Point (Score:2)
It really is a moot point, what are you going to do, not tax the rich? they win either way.
Maybe what is needed is an international agreement to tax people based on what % of time they spend in a country.
Or bar anyone who has renounced citizenship from being in the country for more than 3 months of the year (is that already a thing?).
How about taxing the rich even less? (Score:2)
You can leave. Your money stays (Score:2)
If you don't like it, tough shit.
Adios, Peter Thiel! (Score:2)
Your average illegal immigrant is a better, more productive American on day one than Peter Thiel ever was. When he left Germany and renounced his German citizenship in 1978, Germany continued on just fine without him and the US will do the same.
He will not be missed and is welcome to fuck right off.
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Who cares? (Score:2)
It's a small effect. It doesn't matter. And it doesn't matter why.
all captives in the Land of the Free (Score:2)
You see, unlike the old USSR, the US does not deny this right. The US government is smarter than that, choosing instead to allow its valued citizens to migrate to other countries, and simply imposing US taxation on them wherever they may roam. The onerous amounts of accounting and paperwork involved makes it impossible or nearly impossible f
Stealing from all of us (Score:2)
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There are plenty of countries where you must renounce your prior citizenship to live there, and plenty where you do not have to do this. It's definitely tricky of the article to list "rich man gains citizenship in NZ" in the same breath as "record numbers renouncing their citizenship".
Also I'm bothered by the "avoid taxes" bit. If you renounce your citizenship, you aren't avoiding taxes, you simply don't owe them, much as someone of whatever country you left to be part of doesn't have the IRS breathing do
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Also I'm bothered by the "avoid taxes" bit.
True. In reality most of these rich folks giving up their citizenship would actually incur a hefty exit tax bill on their way out the door. The US gets it's cut one way or another. If you leave, and meet certain criteria (one being a net worth over $2M) the IRS hits you with a tax bill on all of your appreciated assets as if you sold them the day you renounce.
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My former boss made $3B a couple of years ago. He has a UK passport. The way his holdings are structured he paid maybe a couple of %% on the principal of his windfall. Then he pays taxes in the UK on what he consumes in the UK, which is less than $20M/year except for one-off purchase of some real estate. It's completely legal. But it's still tax avoidance.
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They've been actively opposing help to people affected by the pandemic, not that it stops them from shamelessly taking credit for legislation they voted against once it passes. However, even in the best of times, can you really even call it peanuts?
I think the real question is why is it trickle down theory is even still a thing? The only thing it ever consistently does is blow a massive hole in the budget, which requires more borrowing, which increases the debt, which the GOP gets a hard on complaining abou