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Microsoft Should Face the Same Antitrust Scrutiny as Facebook, Republican Says (theverge.com) 81

Posted by msmash from the tussle-continues dept.
Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) is calling on Microsoft to face the same antitrust scrutiny as other large tech platforms in a letter to the company Monday. From a report: In the letter, Jordan asks Microsoft president Brad Smith if he believes the company would be affected by the swath of antitrust bills introduced in the House earlier this month. There are five bills in total, spanning from offering up more money for antitrust enforcers to banning large tech platforms from buying up small competitors. The antitrust package came out of a yearslong investigation into Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google. The measures focus on the anticompetitive behaviors of these four companies, and it's not as clear how they would affect other large companies like Microsoft. While Microsoft meets the standard laid out under these bills to be considered a "covered platform," like meeting the over $600 billion market cap and 50 million monthly active users, the bills don't target the company's specific lines of business.

"Big Tech, including Microsoft, Inc., is out to get conservatives," Jordan said in his Monday letter. "It is unclear why Microsoft has avoided significant attention from House Democrats." Assumably, Microsoft would face the same proposed standards in acquiring companies, like taking on the burden of proof, and making the data it takes from users more portable and usable on other platforms. But whereas Amazon and Apple would face more structural changes, like selling off separate lines of business, Microsoft would likely not be subject to the rules.
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Microsoft Should Face the Same Antitrust Scrutiny as Facebook, Republican Says More

Microsoft Should Face the Same Antitrust Scrutiny as Facebook, Republican Says

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  • Well, it seems Jim Jordan doesn't understand the first thing about the issue for which he is making proposals. Microsoft's business is almost nothing like those "rivals". MS uses much subtler means to push you onto its platforms than vendor lock.

    • Re:Jim Jordan obviously is clueless (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Monday June 21, 2021 @02:12PM (#61507526) Journal

      No, Jim has a workable strategy: he is pandering to his clueless Fox-drunk base. He doesn't care about logic and fairness, he cares about keeping his base frothed up over pretend problems.

      Part of the cause is gerrymandering: it encourages extremist politicians (on both sides). We need a Constitutional amendment against it.

      By the way, the leadership of most "big tech" companies is centrist but libertarian leaning, not progressive. They just know that Trumpism is toxic to business in general (except maybe real-estate), as the Trump-controlled GOP tries to control them to fit Don's themes. Don's trade-wars also hurt their supply chains, including visa worker supply.

      • I think you might be right. Maybe the guy is front-running something that he knows is already being worked on.

        Perhaps the Republicans have already done some calculus and decided that the big social media platforms [and their users] are more likely to be pro-Democrat than pro-Republican. If that's the case, you can bet they are already working through iterations of legislation. So by declaring that he sees this "problem", he's hoping that he'll either get a reaction along the lines of "Something must be d

        • Re:Front-Running (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Darinbob ( 1142669 ) on Monday June 21, 2021 @02:34PM (#61507592)

          You know what is also opposed to Trump style Republicans? Common sense. Good old-fashioned style conservatives were full of common sense, but these days they're about hysteria and the culture wars myth they manufactured.

        • When did Microsoft become against Republicans?
          Did they miss a payment ?
          The last time I checked the Republicans have HATED big tech social media because they are not allowed to directly endanger people with their lies any more.
          Democrats are trying to pass a law minimizing big techs power.
          Now republicans are upset about this? WTF?

          Back to the topic, Yes Microsoft should be held to the same rules.

        • He's front-running his Senate campaign. One of the senators from Ohio has announced that he's retiring (Rob Portman) so he's gearing up to take on the other failed statewide republican candidates that are basically campaigning on being the trumpiest trump acolytes that ever trumped for Trump.

          This is what happens when a major political party doesn't actually adopt any positions on issues rather than just being against what the other guys are for. Culture wars, conspiracy theories, and loudmouth idiots atte

      • It's clear from the "is out to get conservatives" statement. Pander to the conspiracy theory base. Though maybe if my mom someday says "I need you to get that libral Microsoft off my computer" I can finally put Linux on it...

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Tablizer ( 95088 )

          Pander to the conspiracy theory base. Though maybe if my mom someday says "I need you to get that liberal Microsoft off my computer" I can finally put Linux on it...

          Maybe I can sell them the "Donix" or "MyPillux" distros and make a few bucks.

           

    • Re:Jim Jordan obviously is clueless (Score:4)

      by jythie ( 914043 ) on Monday June 21, 2021 @02:21PM (#61507540)
      Understanding the technology or the companies is irrelevant for him. The companies and keywords are pretty much interchangeable, the audience he is speaking to will respond the same regardless of any underlying facts or ground truth. The interesting question is : who put Microsoft on his radar? Typically, the companies he and his ilk have been going after have been having some kind of financial effect on some of their backers.. either cracking down on shady but lucrative enterprises using their platform, or are in some kind of competition with someone who supports the speaker. So who and why told him to attach the 'they are anti-concervative!' meme to Microsoft of all companies?

      • Re:Jim Jordan obviously is clueless (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Monday June 21, 2021 @02:39PM (#61507606)

        The interesting question is : who put Microsoft on his radar?

        Probably this can be fixed with a nice campaign contribution.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by LostMyAccount ( 5587552 )

        It wouldn't surprise me if some kind of 4-D conspiracy theorist got him going on it. One, there's all the hate towards Gates for various conspiracy-related issues -- the pandemic, vaccines, the idea he's a fellow traveler of Jeffrey Epstein, and so on. Among the circle of those kinds of "thinkers", I'd guess Microsoft is in some ways a worse enemy than others, or at least a more well-established one, and probably still tied into Gates somehow.

        Given Microsoft's presence in the business software world, it's

        • Microsoft's behavior being worse than ever is debatable, but the playing field changed - in the late 90s when the US Department of Justice was crawling up their ass, there weren't really any viable alternatives to Windows or Office. That absolutely is not the case today.

          Also, we don't see Microsoft playing games with the OEMs like we once did, like only allowing the best pricing if the OEM doesn't ship any other operating system pre-installed on ANYTHING. Today I can buy a Dell or Lenovo with Linux pre-lo

          • I think its six of one and a half-dozen of the other. Where MIcrosoft appears to have made concessions or faces more competition in a couple of areas, I think they are not facing competition or scrutiny in others, possibly in new areas or business models that didn't exist in the previous Wintel desktop business model, like their cloud and subscription businesses.

            I think nobody cares about Linux on the desktop anymore because....nobody cares about Linux on the desktop. While its more viable for many, it's

          • How do you get Dell to do that?

            -- typing on a Dell running Kubuntu; there's a useless Windows dual-boot on here...

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by cj9er ( 1618279 )
      It's called the 90s/00s, Microsoft went through it already did they not?!

  • oh yes, i'm sure he's very worried about monopoly (Score:4, Insightful)

    by cats-paw ( 34890 ) on Monday June 21, 2021 @02:04PM (#61507492) Homepage

    "Big Tech, including Microsoft, Inc., is out to get conservatives"

    A statement like that means that there is an excellent chance you can ignore anything else he has to say.

    Also , Republicans are all about the grift. I wouldn't be surprised if this is an effort by him to manipulate M$ stock price by making it appear that M$ will undergo a new round of anti-monopoly scrutiny.

    Microsoft is a defacto example of what anti-trust laws were designed to prevent and yet they've not even been slowed down.

    Anybody remember how the Republicans went after Microsoft when they had control of house and senate ?

    yeah, neither do I.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      Microsoft is a defacto example of what anti-trust laws were designed to prevent and yet they've not even been slowed down.

      What specifically should they be busted for?

      Bill Gates has argued that anti-trust threats at least least contributed to keeping them out of the mobile market. Thus, they'd potentially be even bigger without that threat.

      But it's also hard to make a case against MS these days. They don't gate-keep applications likes Apple does for its OS's. Their browser share is down, and cloud tech has y

      • I mostly agree with you. But remember MS is no longer just Bill Gates (at least not in a technical direction), and that Microsoft's influence may be very different across the across segments (e.g. the corpo and server space) and across borders (particularly outside the US, where there isn't that much of a diversity in OS and a much larger chunk of people, companies, organisations and states use their services and OS).

        A simple example is how Europe had to handle Microsoft Windows with the N editions (Windows

        • A simple example is how Europe had to handle Microsoft Windows with the N editions (Windows sans a subset of apps, defaults and services such as media player or with the popular Browser Choice* window).

          ... and then dropped the browser choice window.

      • I think they mostly missed the mobile market because it's hard to see what new thing is coming when you're making money off the old thing. It's the same thing that killed Blackberry. The difference is that Microsoft has deeper pockets so they could keep up the facade for longer.

        Bill Gates has lots of excuses for why MS failed at the mobile market, but 99% of it was just myopia. Apple will one day also fail to see a threat and write it off as a distraction and be humbled by it. It's just the way of the world

        • Whoa, whoa, whoa! Apple will fail to see a threat and be humbled by it? That's crazy. Apple would never suffer for failing to see threats like a relatively short-term license from Microsoft for their BASIC interpreter, or from failing to substantially innovate for about ten years, or from licensing clones and then suffering the cannibalization of the market.

    • Microsoft is a defacto example of what anti-trust laws were designed to prevent and yet they've not even been slowed down.

      Microsoft hasn't been a monopoly threat in over 20 years. In the meantime, Google has turned into a true monopoly under your nose. Your understanding of technology is so out-of-date and embarrassing that I'll bet you have home electronics running on vacuum tubes.

      • People who use computers primarily as consumption/communication devices have been moving to smartphones and smartphone-like tablets where google indeed dominates.

        But people trying to actually create stuff with their (or their employer's) computers are still largely on desktops and laptops, and MS still dominates there. Google seems to have little interest in turning android into a platform for creation, indeed with the "scoped storage" stuff they introduced in recent android API levels I would say they are

  • Microsoft just "greased" the politicians, with "consulting fees" or buying 100,000-copies of some politicians book, etc; Microsoft is more refined and had experience in shackling users to the platform, and wining, dining, and getting apps a'la:

    https://medium.com/@keivan/the... [medium.com]

    Facebook, Google, Amazon, and their ilk are the new kids on the block so making rookie mistakes.

    JoshK.

    • Exactly right. Microsoft learned how to play the game a few decades back and knows whose palms to grease, which has been evident to anyone paying attention.

      For instance, Microsoft was the only tech giant not "invited" to testify before Congress a few months back as lawmakers were considering whether and what measures to put it place, even though they own LinkedIn, Teams, Skype, and a number of other products or services that operate in these spheres (e.g. app stores, major computing platforms, etc.). Were t

  • Surprisingly I don't think so (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ranton ( 36917 ) on Monday June 21, 2021 @02:07PM (#61507502)

    My first reaction was of course Microsoft should be lumped into the same group as Amazon, Apple, Facebook and Google. But upon thinking for a few more moments, I don't really think so. Microsoft's primary lines of business are Office, Azure and Windows. I believe Office's file formats are already pretty open, so I don't see much problem here anymore. Azure is a distant #2 to AWS, and Windows is in a tough battle with more mobile OS's. I don't see them as having the same issues as Amazon has for online retail, Apple for their app store, Facebook for social media and Google for online search.

    Perhaps after more thought I might go back to my original gut reaction, but Microsoft does not appear to be a problem at the same level of these other tech companies.

    • X-Box. It's every bit of as much of a walled garden as the iPhone. And Sony's Playstation, and the Nintendo Switch.

      • It was actually competition from Apple with its low 30% cut that forced MS, Sony and Nintendo to lower their cut from what used to top 70% sometimes.

        • It was actually competition from Apple with its low 30% cut that forced MS, Sony and Nintendo to lower their cut from what used to top 70% sometimes.

          And the monopoly Apple has, intentionally crusshing the competition with it's overwhelming 13 percent market share.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Cyberax ( 705495 )

            And the monopoly Apple has, intentionally crusshing the competition with it's overwhelming 13 percent market share.

            Apple has 50% of mobile marketshare in the US.

            • And the monopoly Apple has, intentionally crusshing the competition with it's overwhelming 13 percent market share.

              Apple has 50% of mobile marketshare in the US.

              Whatever - show now explain how that is a monopoly Seems like a 50 percent share of a market is parity, thererfore the desired outcome. Anyhow, here's where I get my data. https://www.t4.ai/company/appl... [t4.ai]

              The people who hate Apple and want a monoculture of Android, should just really be honest, and say "Must to put Apple out of business, We Hates them precious!" instead of trying to redefine monopoly - Just say it - the truth will make you feel better.

              Because shitfits over either a 50 percent or 13 p

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by Cyberax ( 705495 )

                Whatever - show now explain how that is a monopoly

                The US laws (and in other countries) generally start regulating companies once they approach 30% of the marketshare.

                The people who hate Apple and want a monoculture of Android, should just really be honest, and say "Must to put Apple out of business, We Hates them precious!" instead of trying to redefine monopoly - Just say it - the truth will make you feel better.

                How much are you getting paid by Apple for whoring?

                • Whatever - show now explain how that is a monopoly

                  The US laws (and in other countries) generally start regulating companies once they approach 30% of the marketshare.

                  So do you support anti-monopoly actions against the people who have the other 50 percent?

                  The people who hate Apple and want a monoculture of Android, should just really be honest, and say "Must to put Apple out of business, We Hates them precious!" instead of trying to redefine monopoly - Just say it - the truth will make you feel better.

                  How much are you getting paid by Apple for whoring?

                  Enough to buy me some nice Android devices. You see, I buy what works best for the things I do. Sometimes that is Apple, some times Android, some times Microsoft Windows, sometimes Linux. But if you have a one size dominates all outlook - hey, knock yourself out - But you might be competing with people who don't have the monoculture outlook.

                  • Re: (Score:2)

                    by Cyberax ( 705495 )

                    So do you support anti-monopoly actions against the people who have the other 50 percent?

                    Sure.

                    Enough to buy me some nice Android devices. You see, I buy what works best for the things I do.

                    Until you can't.

              • Nobody said you have to have a monopoly to be a market abuser, or anticompetitive. It's just a whole lot easier when you also have a monopoly to abuse in the furtherance of market abuse and anticompetitive behavior.

                • Nobody said you have to have a monopoly to be a market abuser, or anticompetitive. It's just a whole lot easier when you also have a monopoly to abuse in the furtherance of market abuse and anticompetitive behavior.

                  Sure - should the largest share of say smartphones be forced to allow Apple apps to run on all Android devices? All things considered, seems like the phone with the largest market share and running on the largest OS needs a look first. But we know why no one is doing that, don't we?

                  Occam's razor tells us that in a world where Apple has such a small share of the total market, yet causes outrage by people who just so happen to prefer Windows or Android - it isn't anti competitive issues, its just the same

              • Whatever - show now explain how that is a monopoly

                Can you please stop with yout BuT iTs NoT a MoNoPoLy!11one rhetoric? You're the only one bringing up monopolies; it's almost like you're trying to obscure the actual point. The actual point of how the law is written and what people are talking about is antitrust: whether the company is big enough to be able to distort the market simply through sheer size. There is no requirement for an actual true monopoly of 100% market dominance. We both know that.

                • Whatever - show now explain how that is a monopoly

                  Can you please stop with yout BuT iTs NoT a MoNoPoLy!11one rhetoric? You're the only one bringing up monopolies; it's almost like you're trying to obscure the actual point. The actual point of how the law is written and what people are talking about is antitrust: whether the company is big enough to be able to distort the market simply through sheer size. There is no requirement for an actual true monopoly of 100% market dominance. We both know that.

                  Hah, The M word Triggers you pretty badly I'll stop.

                  So let us now go to a safe word - Antitrust. Explain how Apple at 13 percent is so big that it is distorting the market through that size.

                  Explain the Trust actions they are taking.

                  What is Apple doing that is anticompetitive.

                  • Hah, The M word Triggers you pretty badly I'll stop.

                    Triggered person complains about triggering in others. I think you might be the actual poster child for projection.

                    Explain how Apple at 13 percent

                    Apple shipped 46% of smarthphones in the USA in 2020.

                    Perhaps you could explain why the American antitrust regulator should care about worldwide market share not American marketshare.

                    • Hah, The M word Triggers you pretty badly I'll stop.

                      Triggered person complains about triggering in others. I think you might be the actual poster child for projection.

                      Oh summer child - you haven't seen me triggered. Your 5th grader "BuT iTs NoT a MoNoPoLy!11" Spongebob Squarepants reply is just letting me know the intellect level I'm dealing with. And for people who are at that mental level, I tend to be a little more tolerant anyhow. So go sit down and eat your crackers - let the adults do their adulting.

                    • I have seen you triggered, on this thread. Your hilarious backpedaling and bluffing is funny to be sure but unconvincing.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by jwhyche ( 6192 )

      I can't seem to find any instance where Microsoft stifled free speech, tried to change the meaning of someone's statement with a often incorrect fact check , or deplatformed someone because they didn't like her political message.

      • I can't seem to find any instance where Microsoft stifled free speech [...]

        From just two weeks ago: Bing Censors Image Search for 'Tank Man' Even in US [slashdot.org]

        Between LinkedIn, Skype, Bing, Teams, Azure, GitHub, Windows, and Xbox, Microsoft should've been subject to scrutiny or, if nothing else, should've been included in discussions as a victim of abusive behavior. To be clear, I am not suggesting they deserve to be regulated with the others, but the fact that they weren't even invited to testify before Congress a few months back when everyone else was pulled in made it clear that the ga

  • The Bush Administration (Republicans), worked to overturn many of the Anti-trusts punishments targeted at Microsoft in 2001 [latimes.com]
    I just kinda find it Ironic, That the GOP wants to put pressure now on Microsoft, while a couple decades ago, they took off all the pressure. Just because they own some property that isn't always complementary towards the modern Republican.

  • We spent millions deciding they weren't a monopoly, when they arguably were. Now that they aren't a monopoly at all, somebody with an ax to grind wants to create more trouble?

    Let's ignore the one sided propaganda war waged by Russia and China and start punching ourselves in the face instead.

    • We spent millions deciding they weren't a monopoly, when they arguably were. Now that they aren't a monopoly at all, somebody with an ax to grind wants to create more trouble? Let's ignore the one sided propaganda war waged by Russia and China and start punching ourselves in the face instead.

      Look up Jim Jordon. He's quite interesting.

      • You mean this Jim Jordan ? "Democrats defunded the police, opened the southern border, and stripped our liberties during #COVID19. "

        Boy those Democrats get a lot done in 6 months.

        The scariest part is that there is a significant number of fellow citizens who believe guys like this.

        • You mean this Jim Jordan ? "Democrats defunded the police, opened the southern border, and stripped our liberties during #COVID19. " Boy those Democrats get a lot done in 6 months. The scariest part is that there is a significant number of fellow citizens who believe guys like this.

          That's the one. The Same guy who "allegedly" covered up sexual abuse at OSU https://sports.yahoo.com/rep-j... [yahoo.com], and suports Matt Gaetz https://www.huffpost.com/entry... [huffpost.com]

          Seems to be a pattern emerging. Real upstanding. Anyhow, you can get a pretty good idea of a person's worth by those he supports.

    • We spent millions deciding they weren't a monopoly, when they arguably were.

      Microsoft was convicted of nearly all antitrust charges brought against them in 1999. They lost nearly every battle, but still won the war. How? They convinced the appeals court that Judge Jackson was biased against them, and had the remedy phase severely neutered. They didn't argue that he was wrong. They just argued that he realized early on that they were crooked, and gave Press interviews to that extent before the trial was over.

      It boiled down to, "your honors, everyone knows we're scumbags, but he shou

  • He's not wrong (Score:3)

    by redmid17 ( 1217076 ) on Monday June 21, 2021 @02:46PM (#61507634)
    MS, Apple, Amazon, Facebook, et al are all guilty of varying types of anti competitive behavior and are monopolies. So his reasoning is completely fucking retarded, but he's not wrong. MS should definitely face those firing squads too.
    • None of this is about anti-competitive behavior. That's the cudgel they're threatening to beat big tech platforms that are de-platforming bat-shit crazy republicans, and Microsoft hasn't had a hand in any of that to any significant degree.

  • And investigate the people that actually buy the data off facebook and microsoft and google and..
    I bet it's stuff that should be illegal if not actual treason.

  • I could make the obvious jokes about how it would have been nice if Jordan had put this much effort into protecting wrestlers at Ohio State, or how plenty of individuals on the right seem to think that the rules shouldn't apply to them and it's a giant conspiracy to silence them when someone attempts to hold them accountable for their actions, but frankly what's the point?

    Much as I feel like I need a shower for agreeing with Jordan on anything, he's right. Large tech companies should face increased antitrus

  • Microsoft... antitrust.... WHaT YEaR IS THiS??!

  • Remember the browser wars!

  • That's where I stopped reading.

  • wasn't it the Repulicans who protected Microsoft from being really punished back in 2000, as opposed to the slap on the wrist and a waggled finger they got, when Microsoft was convicted of abusing their monopoly position in the computer OS market?

    I remember a lot of talk about MS getting broken up in to possibly three different companies. Then Shrub Jr. took office and the new head of the DOJ basicly let MS dictate the terms of their own punishment.

    This makes me wonder if some congresscritters didn't get t

  • I am always amazed that people are forgetting that LinkedIn is a MS company. Of course MS should be looked at the same as a Facebook or Google.
  • Where was the FTC, when Microsoft stole disk compression from Stack Electonics, the network from Lantastic and Novell, and a video CoDec from Apple--banner and all? Why now?
  • So these mega corporations just need to offload a bunch of stock at bottom dollar prices to tank the stock below the artificial $600B market cap...they go under the radar and collect tons of cash at the same time all at the expense of the public shareholder.
  • Dear mr. Jordan - i don't like you at all - but for once in your lifetime you said something that is correct. Microsoft ought to be considered as a big-tech company that's also abusing it's stores and closed operating systems-power. Look at Edge - Look at Exchange, Look at Office, Look at Azure, Look at Office365, Look at Teams, look at Skype, look at Linkedin, Look at Bing... All products that are pushed into the markets through integration.

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