
ADT Sues Amazon's Ring Over Use of Blue Octagon Logo (cnet.com) 83
ADT, a home security company in the United States with over 6 million customers, is suing Amazon's Ring, alleging that the DIY home security company is copying ADT's logo and profiting from customer trust associated with it. From a report: ADT has asked a federal judge in Florida to order Ring to stop using its blue, octagonal signs and to pay unspecified compensation to the security company. In the complaint, ADT said it asked Ring to stop copying its blue octagon logo in 2016, after which the Amazon-owned company removed the blue color from its sign, but kept the octagon shape. In late March, upon releasing a new outdoor siren, Ring added the blue back to its advertising materials. ADT also said in the complaint that it owns 12 trademarks for the shape, color and look of its blue, octagonal sign.
In response (Score:2, Funny)
In response, Amazon could buy ADT and turn their former headquarters into a designated Amazon drivers' drive-through trucker bomb dropoff facility, demoting ADT's CEO to dropoff lane custodian.
Re: (Score:2)
nope, google bought stake in ADT so the war is on. Looking at the logos, I think ADT will kick Amazon's ass up and down the courtroom too.
Re:In response (Score:5, Interesting)
I was shocked when Google actually paid money to be associated with the most dismal installers in the entire physical security industry. I've done physical security for 15 years now and can only think of a handful of small companies that are worse than ADT's staff. They specialize in residential and retail installs, and the only way to make money doing that is to haphazardly slap in substandard equipment and skip off to your next site. They frequently don't even **test** the stuff before leaving.
The 911 dispatchers that I know say that their customer alarms are the absolute lowest priority of anything, kids smoking dope in the park are quite literally a higher priority since the false alarm rate on ADT installs is in the upper-90s. (Admittedly most home alarm systems aren't a lot better, but ADT is pretty much the worst.)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I've got a hub6 device monitoring an alarm system. It hits my phone with notifications whenever the system is armed, disarmed, or is triggered.
ADT was a severe disappointment when I was dealing with them. They were unresponsive to our needs and there were some other unsundry activities that left a bad taste in my mouth.
Re: (Score:3)
Possibly Convergint, as long as you have a PM who keep harassing them to stay on schedule. Prosegur and Securitas tend to be good though pricey, security isn't something you should be looking for the lowest bidder on anyway. Tycho, Johnson Controls, and Stanley tend to be competent but unimaginative, don't ask for anything complex and they'll generally do a good job. Henry Brothers and Netronix are both a toss-up, with outstanding staff in some cities and drooling morons in others. Cochrane is cheap but
Re: (Score:2)
It's not about associating, it's about having a foot in the door. When you get involved in the stock market, ethics become very expensive.
Re: (Score:2)
But there are several publicly traded security companies out there which are head and shoulders better than ADT. Securitas, Stanley, Tycho, Johnson Controls all come to mind immediately. That they picked ADT seems to indicate to me that they're just interested in getting their Nest hardware to be included in ADT's typical home installation (it would probably be the highest quality item in the entire system). The real money is in the commercial installations not homes, which ADT is effectively shut out of
tyco security is ADT (just the big business) union (Score:2)
tyco security is ADT (just the big business side) and the techs are more likely to be union.
ADT does small business / retail but things like chase bank branches use tyco.
Re: (Score:2)
Ah, wasn't aware that they bought Tycho's security operations, haven't been paying much attention to the business the last few years. They bought the high-end VAR that I used to work for too, and ruined it.
Re: (Score:2)
The worst was during hurricane season, as we'd call and report fire alarms as current events, despite the alarms actually going off several hours prior, but delayed due to the extreme volume of false alarms. Affected areas were not depriorit
Re: In response (Score:2)
If you read the article (which you clearly didn't), you'd see Google already bought into ADT for $400M.
Not how buy outs work (Score:2)
The CEO gets a sweet golden parachute, buys 2 vacation homes - one in Hawaii and another in Vail, Colorado.
Even without the hand job of a contract, he also typically has a ton of stock, so he gets rich off the buyout.
Looks at the linked to picture. (Score:5, Insightful)
Looked at the ring logo [cnet.com] and the ADT logo [fandom.com]. Yeah, that's going to be a slam dunk trademark case for ADT.
after which the Amazon-owned company removed the blue color from its sign, but kept the octagon shape. In late March, upon releasing a new outdoor siren, Ring added the blue back to its advertising materials.
Oh yeah, that's a really dumb move to remove it and then add it back. In trademark that's a sign you realized you goofed, tried to undo your goof, and then realized "nah fuck it" and goofed again but on purpose this time. I mean Amazon could have gone through the process the first time to invalidate the claims, but seeing how they didn't, it's a bit too little, too late.
All that said, I'm sure whatever ADT wins is literally pocket change that Bezos found in between his couch cushions. I can't image any Judge thinking this warranted major recompense. Well at least major in Amazon terms.
Re: (Score:2)
Looked at the ring logo [cnet.com] and the ADT logo [fandom.com]. Yeah, that's going to be a slam dunk trademark case for ADT.
after which the Amazon-owned company removed the blue color from its sign, but kept the octagon shape. In late March, upon releasing a new outdoor siren, Ring added the blue back to its advertising materials.
Oh yeah, that's a really dumb move to remove it and then add it back. In trademark that's a sign you realized you goofed, tried to undo your goof, and then realized "nah fuck it" and goofed again but on purpose this time. I mean Amazon could have gone through the process the first time to invalidate the claims, but seeing how they didn't, it's a bit too little, too late.
All that said, I'm sure whatever ADT wins is literally pocket change that Bezos found in between his couch cushions. I can't image any Judge thinking this warranted major recompense. Well at least major in Amazon terms.
It could have been an honest mistake. Perhaps some marketing drone at Amazon, who hadn't been in marketing in 2016, looked at the octagon and thought (not realizing he was remembering ADT) that it would look better if it was blue. Nobody in Legal caught it, so it was done.
Re: (Score:2)
Nobody in Legal caught it, so it was done
I mean that can happen. Won't work as a viable defense in court, but they could totally go with that story. Honest mistakes can still be punished.
Re: (Score:2)
Nobody in Legal caught it, so it was done
I mean that can happen. Won't work as a viable defense in court, but they could totally go with that story. Honest mistakes can still be punished.
Even though this won't be a defense in court, Amazon might try to use it in the court of public opinion. A low-level person in marketing will be sent back down to the floor to do the picking and packing that the automation can't yet handle.
Re: (Score:2)
Amazon might try to use it in the court of public opinion
OH! OH! Okay, yeah. Absolutely. I see what we're saying now.
Re: (Score:2)
That's not the way it works.
No one makes a major brand change like that with it being vetted by the folks in Legal. Which, amazingly, they approved.
Ring is going to be hammered into the ground like a tent peg over this.
Re: (Score:2)
That's not the way it works.
No one makes a major brand change like that with it being vetted by the folks in Legal. Which, amazingly, they approved.
Ring is going to be hammered into the ground like a tent peg over this.
We, as outsiders, cannot know how the dynamics work at Amazon. In a construction company that I heard about, the job of the Legal department was to get the government out of the way so the Building Stuff department could earn money. The Legal department could not tell the Building Stuff department to defer a job because they hadn't gotten the right permits--it was assumed that Legal would get the permits in time for the scheduled construction to begin.
I also heard about a marketing company who found, thro
Re: (Score:2)
It can't be honest mistake, when you choose hexagon + blue + home security theme + these matching significant established business with the same patented visuals.
Shouldn't be in court, nor public.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Actually its not. Trademarks are on the entire registered mark, not on individual components. Either there has to be substantial similarity or significant confusion.
They are similar but not substantially similar. The font and text are obviously and significantly different and the shade of blue is noticeably different too. In addition you generally can't trademark basic shapes so the fact they are both octagons in itself is not sufficient for infringement.
As for confusion this can be difficult to prove a
Re: (Score:1)
The first registered trademark in the United Kingdom is for Bass Brewery and is primarily a red equilateral triangle. There is accompanying text but basic shapes have been in trademarks as long as trademarks have existed. In this case, a video doorbell is definitely in the domain of home security so even though the font and text are different I think ADT will have an easy time making a case for customer confusion (even if no company would really want to be confused/associated with ADT)
Re: Looks at the linked to picture. (Score:1)
No slam dunk (Score:2)
I agree (Score:4, Funny)
It makes sense, thieves may mistake the ring logo for ADT and skip the house thinking the residents are broke boomers. ADT should get paid for that.
Re: (Score:2)
"ADT" and "customer trust" don't belong in the same sentence.
Re: (Score:2)
ADT trusts that customers pay $50/month.
Re: (Score:2)
SOP for Amazon (Score:5, Insightful)
Amazon has been caught red-handed numerous times directly copying someone else's product then pushing the Amazon version.
And now they're deliberately using someone else's trademarked symbol.
This is on top of having their warehouse workers piss in a bottle or else get dinged on their pay for the length of time it takes to walk to and from the bathroom.
And yet, people think they're the best thing since sliced bread even though they complain about Amazon's business practices. Just goes to show hypocrisy runs rampant and outrage is faux.
Re: (Score:1)
Will you shut the fuck up already [vice.com] and stop lying.
There are photos. Do you want to drink them to be sure?
Re: (Score:2)
Drivers are not warehouse workers, and their scheduling and routes are controlled by the subcontractor that they work for.
Re:SOP for Amazon (Score:5, Informative)
Huh. I guess the guy who found the bottle of piss on a shelf in a warehouse [theguardian.com] was lying. And that's on top of Amazon admitting its drivers piss in bottles while making deliveries [cbsnews.com].
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, from TFA you linked to: "author James Bloodworth, who worked undercover at Amazon for his book". I'm sure no author attempting to sell a book has ever faked anything. No siree Bob, that would never happen. /s
As I replied to someone above:
Drivers are not warehouse workers, and their scheduling and routes are controlled by the subcontractor that they work for.
Re: (Score:2)
Drivers are not warehouse workers, and their scheduling and routes are controlled by the subcontractor that they work for.
Yeah, and the mob boss just said "take care of them." They didn't mean murder. Plausible deniability with subcontracting. But the end result is still led from the top.
Re: (Score:3)
Restrooms for drivers are an issue for the entire package delivery industry, be it UPS, FedEx, Amazon or the USPS. So far no one has come up with a workable solution, in part because of ADA rules that make it too expensive (which I had pointed out to me recently when I proposed one). Do you have a solution? I would seriously like to hear it if you do.
Re: (Score:2)
Here in the UK at least some of Amazon's deliveries are done from their own vans. Or at least the vans have Amazon logos on them and seem to be really well fitted out on the inside.
I would suggest that a motor home/caravan type toilet arrangement in the back of the van would solve the problem. Fit the delivery depos with facilities to empty them.
It took me all of 10 seconds to think of a viable, working solution that requires no new technology or processes to be developed.
I am not sure how ADA rules prevent
Re: (Score:2)
The "Amazon vans" are actually owned by subcontractors, almost all of them small businesses who got their start with the help of subsidies from the company. They get the vans at a discount with financing in exchange for some contractual agreements (right now they're starting deployment of 10,000 Rivian electric vans, which are kind of cool). Dispatch and routing are done by the contracting company, there is software available to assist with that on AWS but not all of them use it. They started the program
Re: (Score:2)
Don't dismiss your idea so easily. Accessible "port-a-johns" do exist, you know. There are some at every outdoor public event that has any "port-a-johns", and I've seen a few at co
Re: (Score:2)
You're moving the goalposts now. The point is already made and the possible solution is not the point.
Re: (Score:2)
the possible solution is not the point.
Sure it is, you can't really criticize a single company when the problem exists throughout the entire industry. Well, I suppose you can, but you know you'd be hypocritical. If you're going to criticize Amazon for not providing convenient restrooms for delivery drivers then you may as well keep going through FedEx, UPS, Uber, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Which you didn't even bring up until you lost the argument that Amazon was responsible for the situation.
Given that there are plenty of public or semi-public bathrooms along state and local highways, some of which even sell fuel to delivery drivers, I don't think it would be impractical to allow time to make such stops.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They admitted that some delivery drivers do it, which is a definite problem throughout that entire industry.
Re: (Score:2)
We know it is not a lie because of all.of Amazon's literature on the subject, prohibiting it.
That kind of material doesn't write itself and it isn't disseminated for no reason.
We also know they have a problem with delivery drivers shitting in sacks because they don't give them time for bathroom breaks.
You are a traitor to humanity. Literally.
Re: (Score:2)
Restroom access is a problem through the entire package delivery industry, Amazon is just the only one that gets any attention for some reason. Have you got a solution? If so I'm sure everyone in the entire industry would love to hear it.
Re: (Score:2)
That kind of material doesn't write itself and it isn't disseminated for no reason.
Exactly.
I've never had an employer give me written instructions not to piss in a bottle at work "just in case". That bit was written in response to a problem.
Re: (Score:2)
Will someone ban this super-obvious troll already?
In your sig, George Carlin was talking about YOU:
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Re: (Score:2)
Ever done warehouse work? I have, it uniformly sucks. From what I've seen of the FCs it sucks less than the places I worked, plus the pay and benefits are better than any non-Teamsters warehouse job. That's probably why there are a lot of people who have worked there for years, and lots more who come back for the Christmas rush year after year. (I work in Amazon Corporate Security, I can see when people's badges were issued. I had to look at a lot of them when we were having badge replication issues fo
Re: (Score:2)
In your sig, George Carlin was talking about YOU:
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Re: (Score:2)
Well people's first loyalty is to wide product selection, fast delivery, and low cost. Nobody can beat amazon on those .. sure a lot of places can ship you stuff overnight ..what does that cost? Also, do they have as wide a product selection? Sure you can google a product and find 10 different vendors for it, but then you have to sign up on some shady website and that's a pain. As an aside, Google could have become amazon but they F'd up badly in how they tried to do it. Is it really worth wading through go
Change to heptagon (Score:2)
If I was Amazon, I'd change it to a heptagon.
We all know 7 is the best.
Think about it... 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves.
7, man. That's the number.
7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby.
Re: (Score:2)
No. Hexagons are the Bestagons [youtube.com].
How about the Seven Pointed Star? (Score:3)
Be protected by the Father, Smith, Warrior, Mother, Maiden, Crone, and Stranger.
Amazon? Blue octagonal logo? (Score:3)
The joke writes itself. [imgur.com]
ADT and customers (Score:4, Interesting)
Ah, ADT, the company whose system was in the house I bought and when I accidentally set the alarm off said they couldn't assist me in turning the 115db siren off on a 105F Summer day while I had a newborn, unless I gave them my credit card and renewed a subscription to their service. Then, had an employee visit my house 4 months later saying they hadn't heard from my home system (who I had snipped every wire 4 months prior) to see if anything was wrong. If there had been something wrong, they could likely have found our bloated rotting corpses.
Settle it in an octagon ring (Score:2)
give people the games they deserve. Corp Vs Corp Kumite.
Missing the bigger problem (Score:1)
Why are companies allowed to trademark color and geometric shapes in the first place? Who knew that we could sell out parts of geometry to the highest bidder! /s
This is almost as retarded as The Red Cross trying to claim they own the trademark to a) red, and b) cross, when they symbols / crests have been used for over a thousand years prioer.
Re: Missing the bigger problem (Score:2)
You're missing the "trade" in "trademark". A trademark is only relevant within the scope of what you do. So, I can start Apple Denim, but I can't start Apple Electronics.
I can use a generic blue octagon as the logo for my Hot Yoga Training program, but I can't use it for my Advanced Protection Security Certification program.
In this case, this blue octagon is an obvious ploy to look like the ADT protected stickers ADT spent years pimping so that criminals associate it with "stop, you go no further".
Re: (Score:1)
I'm quite well aware of a trademark is.
Allowing companies to hijack colors and shapes for greed is retarded.
Re: (Score:2)
We 'allow' trademarks precisely to eliminate the kind of BS Amazon is doing here. There is absolutely NO reason for them to use a blue octagon logo EXCEPT to try to confuse consumers.
As for the Red Cross, they are not 'trying to claim' those symbols. Those symbols exclusively theirs, as specified by international treaty. And prior use has nothing to do with trademarks in any case.
Yeah, I'm with ADT on this one (Score:2)
I clicked through to see for myself and I immediately saw exactly what they're talking about. That's too close to even really buy the excuse it was an accident.
Re: (Score:2)
One says ring, the other says ADT. I think customers are not going to be confused. To me the purpose of using a trademark is so customers don't mistake your product for another. I find it hard that to believe that this would happen in any significant manner her.
Re: Yeah, I'm with ADT on this one (Score:2)
Most of the time, I'm seeing the ADT logo on a window sticker from a distance, at an angle, and with glare. I am very rarely close enough to make out what it says in the middle.
previous use (Score:1)
cannot see how they can trademark the octagon shape since there is previous usages by cities and governments all over the world. The security sign is a stop sign warning users not to enter because it is protected by their security system. Octagon shaped, stop signs have been around longer than ADT. If Amazon is guilty, then so is ADT.
Re:previous use (Score:4, Informative)
Trademarks are NOT PATENTS. There is no 'prior use' issue. Furthermore, trademarks (except in the special case of 'famous marks') only apply to a specific area of commerce. In this case, that area would be 'home security'. So, do you have any examples of any other company (the commerce part) selling home security services that uses a blue octagon as their logo? No? Then it is a perfectly valid trademark.
Re: (Score:2)
What makes ADT's trademark "perfectly valid" is the fact that the United States Patent and Trademark Office says it is perfectly valid.
Literally nothing works like that. If it did there would never be a reason for any courts to decide on patent or trademark validity.
Friends (Score:2)
Friends don't let friends buy ADT.
Shitty equipment, shitty service, and some of the most ham-handed 'installers' I've ever seen. They'll run wires on the outside of the house, without even a cut-detection loop. Total fools. Their signs might as well say, "Come on in and take our shit!"
Those in the know will tell you that "ADT" stands for "Always Defective Technology".
Eye of Sauron wasn't available? (Score:2)