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Amazon Loses Effort To Install Camera To Watch Counting of Ballots in Pivotal Union Vote (cnbc.com) 182

The National Labor Relations Board on Monday rejected Amazon's request to install a video camera to keep an eye on boxes containing thousands of ballots key to a high-stakes union election in Alabama. From a report: The closely-watched union election in Bessemer, Alabama, concluded on Monday. Approximately 5,800 workers at the facility in Bessemer were eligible to vote to join the Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union (RWDSU). Vote counting begins at 11 a.m. ET on Tuesday, but the final tally may be days or weeks away, as Amazon and the RWDSU can contest ballots. Amazon had sought to place a video camera in the NLRB's Birmingham office, where votes will be tabulated, to keep an eye on the ballot boxes in the off hours between counting, according to an NLRB order denying Amazon's request. The camera feed would have been accessible by both Amazon and the RWDSU. "Though the mail ballot election in this matter is large, it is not, as the Employer asserts, of a 'special nature,'" Lisa Henderson, acting regional director for the NLRB, said in the ruling. "The Region will conduct the ballot count within view of observers participating via virtual platform as well as in-person observers, and in accordance with Agency procedures and protocols, including those for securing ballot boxes."
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Amazon Loses Effort To Install Camera To Watch Counting of Ballots in Pivotal Union Vote

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  • by Ostracus ( 1354233 ) on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @11:54AM (#61217624) Journal

    What does Amazon think is going to happen in the off-hours?

    • make up something to void the vote?

      • You can not make something up when there is a live video feed being fed to both parties.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 )

          You can not make something up when there is a live video feed being fed to both parties.

          You sure about that? Some people (*cough*Donald Trump*cough*) have lied about something they've said on video *while* being shown the video -- and others have believed them.

        • Tell that to Fox News!

          Trust me, with the right cropping and insinuating that something happened where the camera couldn't see, or just "interpreting" the things that are seen with Cardinal Richelieu's fine-toothed comb, even a live feed can be lied with.

          Also, Amazon's leadership is *running* the equipment. And then there's Amazon's computing capabilities... sufficient for live deepfaking.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by guruevi ( 827432 )

      They may find some boxes of votes under a table after everyone leaves. Not like it hasn't happened before. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, Amazon is suddenly very much into conspiracy theories about vote counting.

      • by sjames ( 1099 )

        The already established procedure calls for a reading of the names of each person who voted (but not how they voted). Any "extra" ballots found would be exposed by that process. (simple math, 5000 names read, 6000 ballots counted == problem).

        • by mysidia ( 191772 )

          Any "extra" ballots found would be exposed by that process.

          Not if at the same time extra ballots appeared, an equal number of non-extra ballots "vanished" due to tampering

          • by sjames ( 1099 )

            It's easy to get "extra" ballots into a locked ballot box. Not so easy to get non-extra ballots out.

            • by mysidia ( 191772 )

              It's easy to get "extra" ballots into a locked ballot box.

              Not if it's still locked, meaning that good security seals are still intact on the door and on the slot - it should be just as hard to get something In or Out of a box that was sealed after voting closed - As in, Not happening, but the whole issue would be the box has already been opened in preparation for counting: it's no longer locked. If it was Locked and was Sealed, then Neither adding nor Removing ballots is possible, so the assump

    • by HappySeafood ( 6184720 ) on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @12:17PM (#61217708)

      Someone is going to put extra votes in there, of course!!

      Put it on camera and everyone is happy. You have a customer that's extra worried about cheating. How hard is it to put a camera on the boxes? Yeesh. I'm with Amazon on this one, this is an easy extra step to make sure everyone believes the vote.

      • Someone is going to put extra votes in there, of course!!

        Put it on camera and everyone is happy. You have a customer that's extra worried about cheating. How hard is it to put a camera on the boxes? Yeesh. I'm with Amazon on this one, this is an easy extra step to make sure everyone believes the vote.

        Amazon isn't a customer in this scenario, it's an unwilling and somewhat underhanded participant in a process.

        And when an unwilling participant in a process starts making unusual demands the default reaction should be to deny those demands because they're probably not being made in good faith.

        Perhaps Amazon is simply trying to use the camera request to stall, maybe there's some plan where they think they can invalidate the vote, or maybe they figured to use the camera as precedent for another request. Who k

      • Because recording it carries with it an implicit threat. Ballots are kept secret for just these sort of reasons, if it's all on tape then it's exponentially more difficult to keep secret.

        You don't need to record it as stuffing ballots is easy to detect in an election through exit polling. Amazon wants this because it'll make the voters afraid to vote in favor of the Unions. Period.
        • What are you doing using your brain for? It's obvious that it isn't for thinking.

          Amazon didn't request cameras to monitor the voting. Amazon requested the cameras to monitor the vote counting. Or to even more explicit, they want cameras to monitor the area to make sure there's nothing going on during closed hours.

    • What does Amazon think is going to happen in the off-hours?

      One prominent theory is that 5G Antifa bots disguised as pizza boxes and controlled from Wuhan slide into the warehouse, remove ballots, and inject Dominion Bill Gates chips into the voting machines.

    • Are you implying that a union cannot do sketchy things? That Amazon can't do sketchy things?

      Amazon represents tens of millions of dollars in union dues creating a significant incentive for the Union.
        Amazon's motivation is also very clear. When millions of dollars are at stake people cannot be blindly trusted to do the right thing. Amazon, the workers, and the Union have every reason to want to watch the vote to ensure a fair vote.

  • . . . . but I've seen Amazon's antics in this. And both my daughters work as drones, excuse me, ***Associates*** at an Amazon warehouse. They note that as soon as the unionizing campaign started, the internal employee directory/social media was taken offline. Amazon purposely slow-rolls actions when employees get hurt on the job - I've seen that personally. Constantly growing workloads, and if you don't make quota too many times. . . .you're fired.

    Frankly, the only things keeping Jeff Bezos from being a real-world Bond Villain are a Nehru Jacket and a Cat. . . .

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      This is exactly why unions need to exist, so how can you say that you're normally not in favor of unions? That seems like a wild over-generalization to make instead of being specifically against poorly run unions.
      • Because those other situation had not affected him personally. So, those other employes are all lazy, lying freeloaders and/or being exploited by union thugs. While his good and noble family are just being terribly mistreated.

        And no, we should not expect that contradiction to cause any change about who's a freeloader or thug. Just like stem cell research is utterly terrible until it might help your husband [wikipedia.org].

    • but this one affects me personally so now I am...

      Sorry, I don't exactly mean to call you out, but this line of reasoning is so common it needs to be called out. People who lean towards conservative political views time and time again back away from those views when the experience their effects personally.

      It's so common there's a rather well known Nancy Reagan [duckduckgo.com] meme on the subject, and multiple cases of extreme gun rights advocates becoming in favor of background checks and waiting periods after being
  • 5800 votes? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by LatencyKills ( 1213908 ) on Tuesday March 30, 2021 @12:44PM (#61217792)
    How hard is it to keep track of 5800 votes? How long does it take to count them. I bet on a bubble form, a machine could rip through them in under an hour. Can someone please explain to me the difficulty, on either side, of just counting these votes?
    • A better question is why anyone needs a machine to count 5800 ballots with one question on them.

    • by ljw1004 ( 764174 )

      How hard is it to keep track of 5800 votes? How long does it take to count them. I bet on a bubble form, a machine could rip through them in under an hour. Can someone please explain to me the difficulty, on either side, of just counting these votes?

      Both parties will appeal. I have no facts, just uninformed speculation, bet therefore that the ballots have to be counted once, then kept around for four weeks of interminable challenges and recounts. I believe the authority in charge of the vote is the National Labor Relations Board, a small independent federal agency whose mandate is to set voting rules and make sure that such votes are fair. They seem to have ten or so petitions filed per day, and Amazon will be able to (and want to) through huge amounts

    • Nothing is hard about it. There's even a longstanding, established process for counting them. Including security of the boxes where the ballots are stored.

      Amazon's asking for a change in process, and that's not something you get to do last-minute like this. But when you're trying to discredit the vote, you're going to throw up as much smoke as you can.

    • the desire to record the votes is because it carries with it an implicit threat that Amazon will find out how you voted and fire you. That's why Amazon wanted to do it.
    • How long does it take to count them. I bet on a bubble form, a machine could rip through them in under an hour.

      From the linked article:

      Counting was slated to kick off Tuesday morning via a private videoconference, presided over by the NLRB and with Amazon and the RWDSU allowed four observers each to monitor the count. During this portion, the NLRB will read off each voter's name and both sides will be allowed to contest ballots, likely based on factors such as whether an employee's job title entitles them to vote or an illegible signature. Any contested ballots will be set aside. Once this portion is complete, the NLRB will begin to count the unchallenged ballots in a public session open to members of the media. To win, the union needs to secure a simple majority of the votes cast at Amazon's Bessemer warehouse, known as BHM1.

      1. Amazon is going to be arguing over every signature that isn't printed in block capitals, and
      2. The union is likely to have to bicker over all manner of votes from managers that Amazon has tried to sneak in as eligible employees.

      Honestly, I think the week time frame I've heard kicked around is optimistic.

      • by Cederic ( 9623 )

        2. The union is likely to have to bicker over all manner of votes from managers that Amazon has tried to sneak in as eligible employees.

        What the fuck? Managers are just employees, why the fuck wouldn't they have an equal say in whether they wish to unionise?

  • I agree that Amazon -- well voters and any stakeholders --- should be allowed to watch the counting. But, I think given their record, Amazon should let us watch what happens in their warehouses. I am a big fan of robots. I don't think it would reveal trade secrets -- you're telling me if there's something fancy new & improved logistics going on there they could keep their army of workers from leaking it anyway?

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      they could keep their army of workers from leaking it anyway?

      They just unplug them when their shift is over.

      Wait ... what am I saying? Robots' shifts never end.

    • by Cederic ( 9623 )

      You think Amazon don't already have cameras recording everything in their warehouses?

      If a third party with legitimate interest - e.g. the NLRB - requested access to that footage then Amazon would indeed share it.

      What you're asking for is public access, and that's not being proposed for the footage of the counting area.

  • Between this and their really, really stupid tweets, they are behaving like this is the end of the world for the company. And maybe it is, maybe change is in the air and corporate inertia and greed (mostly greed) is frightened at what the new world will look like. Imagine a world where corporate profits go down so workers can live a better life. That scares the bejesus out of Bezos and his crowd.
    • by dryeo ( 100693 )

      Imagine a world where corporate profits go down so workers can live a better life.

      It already happened once about a century ago. That time the rich, watching revolutions around the world and taking the pulse of the workforce, decided to concede a bunch of workers rights, leading to prosperity for most. Sometime later, a new batch of rich decided to do their best to reverse those concessions. Didn't help that some unions also became corrupt.

  • are they going to lose ? Are the stories and concerns from th eemployees true ?
  • Another tidbit from the link:

    Amazon, which has staunchly opposed the union, previously sought to delay the Alabama union drive. It also failed to convince the NLRB to hold an in-person election, arguing that a mail-in ballot format risked depressing turnout and increased the potential for fraud.

    I would think Slashdot folks of all people would smell FUD from a mile away. Then again, I am not nearly wealthy enough to be pro-exploitation - apparently some folks here are.

    • Then again, I am not nearly wealthy enough to be pro-exploitation - apparently some folks here are.

      Some probably are - but far more want to be rich enough to exploit people without fear of exposure or punishment.

  • Amazon had sought to place a video camera in the NLRB's Birmingham office, where votes will be tabulated, to keep an eye on the ballot boxes in the off hours between counting, according to an NLRB order denying Amazon's request. The camera feed would have been accessible by both Amazon and the RWDSU.

    How could you possibly oppose this? Really, what are you afraid of?

    That said, Amazon is reaping what they sowed, I guess. If they thought that denying service to the political opponents of the new regime was going to win them friends in the new regime, they were mistaken. That's not how cultural revolutions work ...

    • Probably Amazon are hoping to find the names of (some) of the people who voted, so they can be sacked or killed as soon as possible.

      It's business. They'll do it the moment they see a profit in it.

      A subtext of this is that America is so unused to the practice of democracy that there is nobody who makes a living from being independent election scrutineers. I am so glad that we chose to go with the Electoral Reform Society to run our union elections - it has saved SO much hassle.

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