Amazon Loses Effort To Install Camera To Watch Counting of Ballots in Pivotal Union Vote (cnbc.com) 182
The National Labor Relations Board on Monday rejected Amazon's request to install a video camera to keep an eye on boxes containing thousands of ballots key to a high-stakes union election in Alabama. From a report: The closely-watched union election in Bessemer, Alabama, concluded on Monday. Approximately 5,800 workers at the facility in Bessemer were eligible to vote to join the Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union (RWDSU). Vote counting begins at 11 a.m. ET on Tuesday, but the final tally may be days or weeks away, as Amazon and the RWDSU can contest ballots. Amazon had sought to place a video camera in the NLRB's Birmingham office, where votes will be tabulated, to keep an eye on the ballot boxes in the off hours between counting, according to an NLRB order denying Amazon's request. The camera feed would have been accessible by both Amazon and the RWDSU. "Though the mail ballot election in this matter is large, it is not, as the Employer asserts, of a 'special nature,'" Lisa Henderson, acting regional director for the NLRB, said in the ruling. "The Region will conduct the ballot count within view of observers participating via virtual platform as well as in-person observers, and in accordance with Agency procedures and protocols, including those for securing ballot boxes."
Blame it on elves. (Score:3)
What does Amazon think is going to happen in the off-hours?
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make up something to void the vote?
Re: Blame it on elves. (Score:2)
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You can not make something up when there is a live video feed being fed to both parties.
You sure about that? Some people (*cough*Donald Trump*cough*) have lied about something they've said on video *while* being shown the video -- and others have believed them.
Re: Blame it on elves. (Score:2)
Tell that to Fox News!
Trust me, with the right cropping and insinuating that something happened where the camera couldn't see, or just "interpreting" the things that are seen with Cardinal Richelieu's fine-toothed comb, even a live feed can be lied with.
Also, Amazon's leadership is *running* the equipment. And then there's Amazon's computing capabilities... sufficient for live deepfaking.
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The camera feed would have been accessible by both Amazon and the RWDSU.
I can see how you would miss that, given that it was buried almost halfway down the summary. But I do like that you went ahead and ignorantly posted without even reading the whole summary.
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Having a party with a LOT of interest in the outcome of the vote in charge of security the vote is fair seems rather suspect.
Why wouldn't Amazon put up the money to fund a neutral 3rd party to do it? Oh right, they have no intention of allowing a fair vote.
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Well, we can vote on it... oh wait.
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The irony of course being that a supposedly neutral third party is refusing to allow security measures.
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They may find some boxes of votes under a table after everyone leaves. Not like it hasn't happened before. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, Amazon is suddenly very much into conspiracy theories about vote counting.
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The already established procedure calls for a reading of the names of each person who voted (but not how they voted). Any "extra" ballots found would be exposed by that process. (simple math, 5000 names read, 6000 ballots counted == problem).
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Any "extra" ballots found would be exposed by that process.
Not if at the same time extra ballots appeared, an equal number of non-extra ballots "vanished" due to tampering
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It's easy to get "extra" ballots into a locked ballot box. Not so easy to get non-extra ballots out.
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It's easy to get "extra" ballots into a locked ballot box.
Not if it's still locked, meaning that good security seals are still intact on the door and on the slot - it should be just as hard to get something In or Out of a box that was sealed after voting closed - As in, Not happening, but the whole issue would be the box has already been opened in preparation for counting: it's no longer locked. If it was Locked and was Sealed, then Neither adding nor Removing ballots is possible, so the assump
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The You better vote for us party wants to ensure a fair election. Therefor we will post heavily armed "guards" every 10 feet in the polling place to make sure there are no "mistakes".
Re:Blame it on elves. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do we not have this in our state and national elections? That would help satisfy those that fear mishandling of ballots.
Because this kind of stuff is a never ending thing. Have cameras? Oh, well who's watching the cameras? How do we know this isn't deepfake? Etc... It's like every TSA argument for airport security. It's not actually doing anything, like cameras watching the ballots wouldn't do anything because people would just invent arguments on why those videos are fake. You don't actually add anything except massive costs, that will also become an argument for why we need fewer and fewer locations for ballots to be cast.
I mean I get it, but every time you give someone an inch they want seventeen miles, and this kind of stuff can get super petty super fast. And honestly last time people got so uppity about "security" we got "airport security" so I trust their ability to secure ballots about as much as I trusted them to secure airports. I'm just a bit skeptical that the "video cameras" is all they want to add here. More than likely it looks like something to lead into something else and they're just hoping someone gives them an inch.
Re: Blame it on elves. (Score:2)
If that additional security measure is deemed unnecessary and being provided by a party with a vested interest in the vote, then it could create the impression that one party is being favored. From a basic ethical standpoint, it's quite reasonable for a neutral third party to reject help from the non-neutral parties.
Re: Blame it on elves. (Score:2)
How about crowdsource it, with some safeties to make it statistically impossible?
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observers from both parties are present during the whole process for government elections
It was thoroughly demonstrated in November - with video evidence and court verdicts - that this is not the case.
Re: Blame it on elves. (Score:2)
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Could you point out for me in the video of votes being counted in Georgia at 1am in the morning (after poll watchers had been told counting was finished for the day) where the poll watchers and observers are?
Re: Blame it on elves. (Score:2)
No because that shit doesn't need to be recorded. Why you expect to video of such a thing is beyond me. Furthermore, did you miss the part where the people making claims about irregularities couldn't even allege sufficient evidence in any of their court cases to get beyond a motion to dismiss. In other words, there was so little evidence that they couldn't even say, "fraud occurred, for sure; we saw it" with a straight face. All they had to do to move one of those cases forward is say, "{person} says he saw
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Why you expect to video of such a thing is beyond me
Well, mainly because it exists and I've seen it.
I'll save you some time: It has no poll watchers or observers present. They were told counting was over, told to go home, then when they left the counters returned, pulled cases from under a table and started counting them with nobody watching.
did you miss the part where the people making claims about irregularities couldn't even allege sufficient evidence in any of their court cases to get beyond a motion to dismiss
Dismissed for 'no standing' means nobody looked at the evidence.
But clearly you missed the part where the media have been lying to you: https://thenewamerican.com/cou... [thenewamerican.com]
If they'd been able to say that, they would have made it to next stage of the lawsuit
No Standing.
Laches.
Moot.
When the courts refuse to
Re:Blame it on elves. (Score:4, Insightful)
Someone is going to put extra votes in there, of course!!
Put it on camera and everyone is happy. You have a customer that's extra worried about cheating. How hard is it to put a camera on the boxes? Yeesh. I'm with Amazon on this one, this is an easy extra step to make sure everyone believes the vote.
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Someone is going to put extra votes in there, of course!!
Put it on camera and everyone is happy. You have a customer that's extra worried about cheating. How hard is it to put a camera on the boxes? Yeesh. I'm with Amazon on this one, this is an easy extra step to make sure everyone believes the vote.
Amazon isn't a customer in this scenario, it's an unwilling and somewhat underhanded participant in a process.
And when an unwilling participant in a process starts making unusual demands the default reaction should be to deny those demands because they're probably not being made in good faith.
Perhaps Amazon is simply trying to use the camera request to stall, maybe there's some plan where they think they can invalidate the vote, or maybe they figured to use the camera as precedent for another request. Who k
You don't put it on camera (Score:2)
You don't need to record it as stuffing ballots is easy to detect in an election through exit polling. Amazon wants this because it'll make the voters afraid to vote in favor of the Unions. Period.
Re: You don't put it on camera (Score:2)
What are you doing using your brain for? It's obvious that it isn't for thinking.
Amazon didn't request cameras to monitor the voting. Amazon requested the cameras to monitor the vote counting. Or to even more explicit, they want cameras to monitor the area to make sure there's nothing going on during closed hours.
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NLRB (government) offices are not private property, much less someone's home. The privacy, property ownership, and due process concerns all cut the opposite direction of putting a government camera into someone's home.
Q-Elves [Re:Blame it on elves.] (Score:3)
One prominent theory is that 5G Antifa bots disguised as pizza boxes and controlled from Wuhan slide into the warehouse, remove ballots, and inject Dominion Bill Gates chips into the voting machines.
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Are you implying that a union cannot do sketchy things? That Amazon can't do sketchy things?
Amazon represents tens of millions of dollars in union dues creating a significant incentive for the Union.
Amazon's motivation is also very clear. When millions of dollars are at stake people cannot be blindly trusted to do the right thing. Amazon, the workers, and the Union have every reason to want to watch the vote to ensure a fair vote.
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In case someone misses any part of that turducken of lies, the idea that the ballots in the "suitcases under the table" (normal ballot containers being used in a normal storage situation) dramatically changing the vote count is completely unsubstantiated:
https://www.politifact.com/fac... [politifact.com]
I just can't understand why anyone would be remotely surprised that a President who lost the popular vote and then proved exactly how much of a supercriminal shitgoblin he was for 4 straight years did even worse in his next
Re:Common sense has left you (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually I have a friend who volunteered to be a poll worker before, they did have to work late and pull containers out (possibly kept under tables to save space!) to count votes when some people had chosen to go home. That's a normal part of the job.
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Maybe so. I guess the solution in this case: The companies should hire their poll monitors to pull an nighters and/or have people in shifts to give 24x7 monitoring coverage of the counting, they are to keep human eyes present and standing watch continuously until vote counting is completed....
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Similarly, I see you have no excuse for why it is OK for the union votes to remain unmonitored overnight, where anyone could do anything to them.
Predicated on a couple assumptions.
You assume that somehow in all the decades the world has had paper ballots and counters the only solution we've had to fraud is...cameras.
You also assume much like with voting machines that they can't be manipulated in some way to precipitate fraud.
Re:Common sense has left you (Score:5, Informative)
I see people taking out boxes from under a table, the rest seems like conjecture rather than common sense? The sworn affidavit submitted in the case by Georgia Secretary of State chief investigator Frances Watson (who watched the full video) explains what happened (in 7.) https://www.documentcloud.org/... [documentcloud.org]
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Why are two workers working after hours, counting votes hidden under a table? Like I said, use common sense. The video is at the link. They wait til all the observers and most other workers are gone, then pull out the "special" boxes and get to work.
I think you'd benefit from denominator thinking.
Q. In how many counting locations do people work late into the night, to get results out promptly? Was it just this location or was it widespread?
Q. In how many counting locations are ballot boxes stashed away in places where people won't trip? Was it just this location or was it widespread?
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You really fell for the Fox and Friends line didn't you SuperKendall. I mean it's not like we have footage of how that box got there showing that there was nothing special about it... oh wait yes we do, as it was reviewed in court, and then thrown out for being completely irrelevant.
I saw a great line on Slashdot the other day I will misuse now going forward: We have freedom of religion, but why do you chose a religion that doesn't benefit you?
Re: Common sense has left you (Score:2)
Common sense? Like why would the Republican governor, Secretary of State, all the state investigators, the courts, etc. be in on it? If everyone is in on it, some magic trick in a room full of cameras and observers is the most plausible thing you can come up with?
Hey Kendall! Look up, chemtrails! *runs*
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Why are two workers working after hours, counting votes hidden under a table?
Why do you mistakenly believe there is such a thing as "after hours" when counting the ballots? Could you link to the documentation of those hours?
The video is at the link.
The video doesn't show "suitcases". It shows the standard boxes they use to transport ballots.
C O M M O N _ S E N S E.
Common sense would also dictate if you were going to cheat, you'd also cheat at downballot races. Yet you posted in the past about how great Republicans did in those downballot races.
Are you saying they printed up a bunch of fake ballots and only filled out the line f
Re: jesus wasnt white bra (Score:2)
Jesus was'nt at all.
The stories are literally over 5500 years old. You can find them in texts from Ancient Egypt and India, from 3500BC. Literally the exact 3 kings follow a star to a virgin birth of the savior story.
It's all tales to explain the sun and moon and seasons and nature etc. And stories to teach basic morals of the time.
Like "If somebody harms you, you are no better if you harm him back.", teaching us that revenge/punishment is wrong.
Or like this hilarious one: https://youtu.be/qsqTO6lq99c [youtu.be]
Re: jesus wasnt white bra (Score:2)
Just because Christ is presented as a solar deity doesn't prove that Jesus wasn't a Jewish preacher around Galilee in the early 1st century.
There's no good evidence to suggest he was real, but there are some historical issues around the spread of Christianity that need to be explained if there wasn't a Jewish apocalyptic preacher around Galilee named Jesus.
Foremost is why the Romans would take a Jewish folk hero and build a mystery cult around them. Or - alternately - why Paul's Roman/Jewish syncretic relig
Re:Blame it on elves. (Score:5, Informative)
State and county officials, including investigators for the secretary of state’s office, said that the video clip making the rounds show the normal tabulation process. No monitors were told to leave, but Republican monitors and members of the media left when some election employees called “cutters” wrapped up for the night.
Georgia law 21-2-408 spells out the rules for partisan poll watchers, allowing them to be present and monitor aspects of the elections process. But having monitors there is not required — and in fact, Democrats did not have monitors present at that time.
The simple fact is that Trump lost in November, his preferred Senators lost in a separate January '21 election, and the entire Georgia GQP apparatus is trying to rig the next election.
As for the Alabama unionization vote actually being counted, it looks like the safeguards are already fairly stringent. From the fine article:
During this portion, the NLRB will read off each voter’s name and both sides will be allowed to contest ballots, likely based on factors such as whether an employee’s job title entitles them to vote or an illegible signature. Any contested ballots will be set aside.
So don't worry, the helpless tech giant that America's reichwing recently complained was too powerful will have an opportunity to defend itself against alleged fraud.
Re:Blame it on elves. (Score:5, Informative)
The same thing that happened in a number of states for the presidential election - suitcases of rigged ballots [cbn.com] pulled from under the table and counted in the dead of night after most people have gone home.
I'm struck by (1) they weren't suitcases; they were normal ballot boxes. (2) where else are you going to stash all the ballot boxes? in hallways for people to trip over? (3) election counting commonly goes on late through the night, because the whole country wants to know the results! (4) you write "most people had gone home" but you omitted the fact that an independent state election board monitor and a state investigator remained at the facility until the count concluded for the night.
https://www.independent.co.uk/... [independent.co.uk]
https://apnews.com/article/ele... [apnews.com]
What on earth can a reasonable objection to that [video monitoring of ballot boxes off-hours] be?
I'll take a stab. Suppose you observe 100 events that are all fair, and by random statistical chance there are 5 of the fair events which can be misconstrued as favoring one side, and 5 of the fair events which can be misconstrued as favoring the other. Naturally each party will seize on the events that accord with their narrative. If one party has substantially more resources or lawyers, or less shame, its narrative that it was unfairly treated will become dominant. We will thereby get an inaccurate picture of the results.
How can such inaccuracies be combatted?
In the case of the 2020 US election, they were combatted by having a well-functioning judicial system that didn't let distorted claims prevail.
In the case of union boards, it's combatted by having an independent federal agency the NLRB set up impartial (fair) rules for votes and ensure that they're followed uniformly.
In this case Amazon brought a specific petition to the NLRB saying that because this is such an atypical vote, their normal rules should be set aside and new temporary rules should be put in place. Amazon's petition was rejected, I don't know on precisely what grounds, but it was with the observation that Amazon's premise was incorrect (that it is an atypical vote). Maybe Amazon would have done better with a different argument? say proposing this change for all NLRB votes going forward, maybe even by stumping up cash to pay for it? Maybe there were other grounds? I don't know without reading the docket, and I'm not sure where to find it.
I should say, though, I trust an independent federal agency the NLRB much more to ensure a fair level playing field for the vote and count, than I do Amazon.
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They would mod up Onion and Babylon Bee stories if it confirmed their bias.
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However, other links have been provided, refuting this bullshit, and you people keep conveniently ignoring those:
https://www.politifact.com/fac... [politifact.com]
https://thegeorgiasun.com/2020... [thegeorgiasun.com]
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but he literally posted a link to a main stream media organization
He did not. He posted a link to a Clown Car full of idiots.
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So why would Trump loyal judges dismiss cases for lack of standing?
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So why would Trump loyal judges dismiss cases for lack of standing?
Because they follow the law instead of making it.
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Who said they are "Trump loyal judges"?
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https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
At least nine Trump-appointed judges or Supreme Court short-listers have declined to bolster his claims of election fraud. None have ruled in his favor.
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Congrats on his big win.
Re:Blame it on elves. (Score:5, Informative)
False. The majority were shot down for technical reasons like lack of standing
No they weren't. Only a few were shot down for lack of standing. The majority were shot down due to lack of evidence.
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I like how you assert almost all of them were tossed for lack of standing yet demand citations from others.
Oh, and this [wikipedia.org] has a nice collection of citations. That you will insist is fake news without actually supplying any proof.
Also, could you cite what law or rule requires the Trump campaign to hide its evidence until in a courtroom? Why can't they publish it right now?
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Asking for a citation really triggered an emotional reaction out of you
Picking a bad faith argument technique off the shelf really does not speak well of your ability to respond.
Let's see, no cursing, no exclamation points, no apparent anger. So no, no big emotional reaction. This is you just lying in a desperate attempt to assert control over a discussion that is not going your way.
Why is that on me?
Because your claim is team Trump has tons of evidence. Your failure to actually show evidence at all is kinda a problem with this claim. How do you know there actually is evidence?
at least one court has found that a Secretary of State violated state law with regards to how the election was to be conducted
Did you actua
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[Citation needed]
www.google.com Seriously go look for your own citation. It's easier than me posting something and you having a temper tantrum and moving the goalposts like you religious church of Trump nuts constantly do.
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What does the state have to hide to not allow monitoring?
NLRB = NATIONAL.
Not state.
Re: Blame it on elves. (Score:2)
https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
Re: Blame it on elves. (Score:2)
Hey, IRS, let me just install some cameras at your office to ensure you're doing your job properly. While we're at it, NSA, I'm gonna need you to put some of my cameras in your lobby. Oh, and CIA, can I get a camera looking at that crypto art installation outside your office?
Re: Blame it on elves. (Score:2)
Unions aren't on your side unless it also happens to benefit them. Union corruption is pretty rampant in this country, there's a documentary called Fear City on netflix that, without actually intending to, shows exactly how unions work in this country. It's not at all the same as how unions in other countries generally work.
Normally, I'm not in favor of unions. . . (Score:5, Informative)
. . . . but I've seen Amazon's antics in this. And both my daughters work as drones, excuse me, ***Associates*** at an Amazon warehouse. They note that as soon as the unionizing campaign started, the internal employee directory/social media was taken offline. Amazon purposely slow-rolls actions when employees get hurt on the job - I've seen that personally. Constantly growing workloads, and if you don't make quota too many times. . . .you're fired.
Frankly, the only things keeping Jeff Bezos from being a real-world Bond Villain are a Nehru Jacket and a Cat. . . .
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Because those other situation had not affected him personally. So, those other employes are all lazy, lying freeloaders and/or being exploited by union thugs. While his good and noble family are just being terribly mistreated.
And no, we should not expect that contradiction to cause any change about who's a freeloader or thug. Just like stem cell research is utterly terrible until it might help your husband [wikipedia.org].
"Normally, I'm not in favor of unions. . . " (Score:2)
Sorry, I don't exactly mean to call you out, but this line of reasoning is so common it needs to be called out. People who lean towards conservative political views time and time again back away from those views when the experience their effects personally.
It's so common there's a rather well known Nancy Reagan [duckduckgo.com] meme on the subject, and multiple cases of extreme gun rights advocates becoming in favor of background checks and waiting periods after being
Free market failure - you're not saving money! (Score:5, Insightful)
Once again, if people are so up in arms about Amazon's treatment of its workers, STOP BUYING FROM THEM!
But what's to stop their competition? This is a free market failure. Companies are incentivized to mistreat employees. So let's take your logic, I buy my next purchase from Wal Mart instead. They're famous for mistreating their employees. Target? I've heard they're a little better, but not much. But even if there was an ethical vendor, they're having to compete with unethical vendors. It's the same reason we ban performance enhancing drugs in sports....some slugger wants to be responsible?...OK, he has to compete with a juiced up Barry Bonds. Any ethical vendor is at a huge disadvantage.
Also, how is a consumer to know who is ethical or not? I've heard Costco treats their employees well, but what if they just decide to stop? Putting the burden on the consumer is not a sustainable solution. We can't all be labor market experts, constantly reading up on who is evil or not every time we want to buy a pair of socks. We need labor laws to ensure a baseline of treating workers humanely.
Also, let's say you're a sociopath. You don't care if Amazon workers suffer...it's their fault for taking the job, right? Jeff Bezos is the wealthiest man alive. He can afford to hire more workers, without even raising your costs. What happens then? More people with jobs, lower unemployment, more money funneling into your local economy, tax base, etc. Amazon prices aren't even low. Wal Mart, Lowes, Home Depot, and Target offer cheaper or equivalent prices on most items...those workers are suffering for Jeff Bezos' profits, to invest in automation to kill the competition, and his stupid space capade dick measuring competition with Elon Musk, not to save you money.
Do you really want all those people to suffer so Jeff Bezos can get even wealthier? He's not passing the savings on to you. This is where gov provides a check to out of control businesses. They can pass sensible regulations to ensure the people in your community are treated reasonably in a sustainable manner. This ensures less people on welfare, so tax payers don't have to foot the bill for these businesses who don't pay a living wage. This ensures less long term heathcare costs from the physical abuse. This makes it easier for responsible and sustainable businesses to compete instead of engaging in a depressing and fatal race to the bottom
When big business does stupid shit like Jeff Bezos is doing, it just ensures the tax payers foot the bill later on. I don't know why most people can't see this. When you let corporations abuse people, the taxpayer just ends up footing the bill later. Why do you want to subsidize Jeff Bezos extravagant lifestyle?
OK, substitute Jeff Bezos for all the stockholders (Score:3)
The overwhelming majority of Bezos' wealth is from appreciation of Amazon stock he owns. So Bezos' money doesn't come from Amazon. It comes from people (mostly unassociated with Amazon) who paid him / are willing to pay him for some of his shares of Amazon stock. But here's the thing - unless a company kept shares of its stock in reserve for sale later, it doesn't benefit from its stock appreciating. Only the people who own shares do.
This is a strawman argument, yes, Jeff Bezos is getting his money from the stocks, so technically it's the shareholders, not his salary, but regardless, they are a hugely profitable company. He's the biggest shareholder, so the 2 are pretty interchangeable, generally speaking.
Before they were profitable, they used to be the cheapest around. Most of their customers still think they're the best buy even though Target & Wal Mart undercut them for most things I buy.
Bezos is admirably smart. He bui
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Re:Normally, I'm not in favor of unions. . . (Score:5, Insightful)
Boycotting is only effective in the most rare of circumstances. For the VAST majority of people, if they don't see and can't directly empathize with those being mistreated, they cannot connect their own purchases with that harm. Abusers have known this ever since collective bargaining began which is why they punish those who communicate and air dirty laundry.
Potential boycotters need 3 things:
1. Voluminous visual evidence. Not just stories. They need video, leaked emails, photos. Simple testimony is insufficient because people will always assume that complainers exaggerate. They need to see *strong* people broken.
2. A connection to those affected and the lack of options. Not everyone has a great sense of empathy. About half of America begins to care about a cause only after they, their family, or their closest friends have been personally affected.
3. An alternative. This is where Amazon has so many people by the proverbial balls. Where's the direct Amazon competitor? Go directly to MFGer? Target/Walmart online? (Their websites are horrible.)
Since those things don't exist together for the majority of Amazon customers, the next best course of action is collective bargaining.
Caveat: Not all unions are equally useful. I'm totally pro-union, but I will happily call out shitty unions who end up getting people laid off because they're trying to cater only to the most senior members who demand higher wages even during economic downturns.
Even if you can connect purchases to harm (Score:2)
Boycotts don't work because in business being evil wins, every time. Evil people will cut their prices and/or do more advertising with the money the
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THIS. SO MUCH THIS. We used to not sell on Amazon, but had lots of customers asking "please sell on Amazon!" We'd explain - we offer 2 day free shipping, and have lower prices than Amazon (because we don't have to pay them the 20% commission) - and people would STILL want to buy from Amazon.
So now we sell - very little, usually let inventories run dry, because it turns out about 15% of all Amazon sales are just tire-kickers who want your product, want to play with it for a month, then send it back (usua
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Tire kickers? - sell junk and it gets returned! (Score:2)
because it turns out about 15% of all Amazon sales are just tire-kickers who want your product, want to play with it for a month, then send it back (usually damaged or missing parts) and get their credit, and let you and Amazon try to fight about the shape of the return...
If your product wasn't garbage and correctly marketed, it wouldn't get returned as much. I never hesitate to return stuff and nearly every time it had clear quality issues or had vendors actively misleading you.
Fuck Amazon, but fuck the vendors who sell absolute junk...I've bought jackets and bags where the zippers don't work...tripod heads that were marketed as "heavy duty" for DSLRs and rated for 15lbs, but break with a lightweight lens (.5 lbs). Things that were outright fraud...photo showed one ite
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What would that help? There are enough people who just don't care that the only one I hurt by not getting stuff from Amazon that I want and/or need ... is myself.
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Once again, if people are so up in arms about Amazon's treatment of its workers, STOP BUYING FROM THEM!
I don't buy from them. How does that stop the local store being put out of business, or companies I support having their products ripped off by Amazon Basics?
But, as always, this is too simple an idea so it will never be done.
Indeed your ideas and understanding of how a large multinational conglomerate works and its influence on the economy is way too simple. Maybe you should go back to making recommendations about how to deal with the local corner store.
5800 votes? (Score:4, Insightful)
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A better question is why anyone needs a machine to count 5800 ballots with one question on them.
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How hard is it to keep track of 5800 votes? How long does it take to count them. I bet on a bubble form, a machine could rip through them in under an hour. Can someone please explain to me the difficulty, on either side, of just counting these votes?
Both parties will appeal. I have no facts, just uninformed speculation, bet therefore that the ballots have to be counted once, then kept around for four weeks of interminable challenges and recounts. I believe the authority in charge of the vote is the National Labor Relations Board, a small independent federal agency whose mandate is to set voting rules and make sure that such votes are fair. They seem to have ten or so petitions filed per day, and Amazon will be able to (and want to) through huge amounts
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Nothing is hard about it. There's even a longstanding, established process for counting them. Including security of the boxes where the ballots are stored.
Amazon's asking for a change in process, and that's not something you get to do last-minute like this. But when you're trying to discredit the vote, you're going to throw up as much smoke as you can.
It's a threat (Score:2)
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How long does it take to count them. I bet on a bubble form, a machine could rip through them in under an hour.
From the linked article:
Counting was slated to kick off Tuesday morning via a private videoconference, presided over by the NLRB and with Amazon and the RWDSU allowed four observers each to monitor the count. During this portion, the NLRB will read off each voter's name and both sides will be allowed to contest ballots, likely based on factors such as whether an employee's job title entitles them to vote or an illegible signature. Any contested ballots will be set aside. Once this portion is complete, the NLRB will begin to count the unchallenged ballots in a public session open to members of the media. To win, the union needs to secure a simple majority of the votes cast at Amazon's Bessemer warehouse, known as BHM1.
1. Amazon is going to be arguing over every signature that isn't printed in block capitals, and
2. The union is likely to have to bicker over all manner of votes from managers that Amazon has tried to sneak in as eligible employees.
Honestly, I think the week time frame I've heard kicked around is optimistic.
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2. The union is likely to have to bicker over all manner of votes from managers that Amazon has tried to sneak in as eligible employees.
What the fuck? Managers are just employees, why the fuck wouldn't they have an equal say in whether they wish to unionise?
Amazon warehouses (Score:2)
I agree that Amazon -- well voters and any stakeholders --- should be allowed to watch the counting. But, I think given their record, Amazon should let us watch what happens in their warehouses. I am a big fan of robots. I don't think it would reveal trade secrets -- you're telling me if there's something fancy new & improved logistics going on there they could keep their army of workers from leaking it anyway?
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they could keep their army of workers from leaking it anyway?
They just unplug them when their shift is over.
Wait ... what am I saying? Robots' shifts never end.
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You think Amazon don't already have cameras recording everything in their warehouses?
If a third party with legitimate interest - e.g. the NLRB - requested access to that footage then Amazon would indeed share it.
What you're asking for is public access, and that's not being proposed for the footage of the counting area.
Amazon is running scared (Score:2)
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Imagine a world where corporate profits go down so workers can live a better life.
It already happened once about a century ago. That time the rich, watching revolutions around the world and taking the pulse of the workforce, decided to concede a bunch of workers rights, leading to prosperity for most. Sometime later, a new batch of rich decided to do their best to reverse those concessions. Didn't help that some unions also became corrupt.
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I thought you were going to go here: https://www.history.com/topics... [history.com]
Why are AMZN worried (Score:2)
They learned from the best (Score:2)
Amazon, which has staunchly opposed the union, previously sought to delay the Alabama union drive. It also failed to convince the NLRB to hold an in-person election, arguing that a mail-in ballot format risked depressing turnout and increased the potential for fraud.
I would think Slashdot folks of all people would smell FUD from a mile away. Then again, I am not nearly wealthy enough to be pro-exploitation - apparently some folks here are.
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Some probably are - but far more want to be rich enough to exploit people without fear of exposure or punishment.
Why not? (Score:2)
Amazon had sought to place a video camera in the NLRB's Birmingham office, where votes will be tabulated, to keep an eye on the ballot boxes in the off hours between counting, according to an NLRB order denying Amazon's request. The camera feed would have been accessible by both Amazon and the RWDSU.
How could you possibly oppose this? Really, what are you afraid of?
That said, Amazon is reaping what they sowed, I guess. If they thought that denying service to the political opponents of the new regime was going to win them friends in the new regime, they were mistaken. That's not how cultural revolutions work ...
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It's business. They'll do it the moment they see a profit in it.
A subtext of this is that America is so unused to the practice of democracy that there is nobody who makes a living from being independent election scrutineers. I am so glad that we chose to go with the Electoral Reform Society to run our union elections - it has saved SO much hassle.
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Open Source was unintentionally the largest transfer of wealth created by unpaid labor to the corporate class in history. Corporations took all that free labor and said "Fuck you if you don't like what we're doing with your technology, it's open source, you can't control it anymore."
A lot of contributions to these FOSS projects come from people working for corps that use said software Maybe that's bad? I don't know. But they're not just taking.
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Unless it's BSD or Tivoized GPLv2, then they're just taking.
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Well folks you heard it here, Jimmy Carter doesn't like mail in votes. Shut down everything.
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Not sure what planet this perversion comment is from, but mine is literally the official truth.
I am sorry you cannot acknowledge it, but secret union votes are the oppositw of the Democrats' position.
Downmodders are either profoundly ignorant of their own party and Hillary, or are flat out censorship operatives out to hide embarrassing facts.