How Will America's Investigators Identify Capitol Hill Protesters? (arstechnica.com) 353
"Both local police and the FBI are seeking information about individuals who were 'actively instigating violence' in Washington, DC, on January 6," writes Ars Technica.
Then they speculate on which tools will be used to find them: While media organizations took thousands of photos police can use, they also have more advanced technologies at their disposal to identify participants, following what several other agencies have done in recent months... In November, The Washington Post reported that investigators from 14 local and federal agencies in the DC area have used a powerful facial recognition system more than 12,000 times since 2019.
Neither would an agency need actual photos or footage to track down any mob participant who was carrying a mobile phone. Law enforcement agencies have also developed a habit in recent years of using so-called geofence warrants to compel companies such as Google to provide lists of all mobile devices that appeared within a certain geographic area during a given time frame...
With all of that said, however, the DC Metropolitan Police and the FBI will probably need to look no further than a cursory Google search to identify many of the leaders of Wednesday's insurrection, as many of them took to social media both before and after the event to brag about it in detail. In short: you don't need fancy facial recognition tools to identify people who livestream their crimes.
Friday the Washington Post also cited "the countless hours of video — much of it taken by the rioters themselves and uploaded to social media" as a useful input for facial recognition software.
But in addition, they note that "The Capitol, more than most buildings, has a vast cellular and wireless data infrastructure of its own to make communications efficient in a building made largely of stone and that extends deep underground and has pockets of shielded areas. Such infrastructure, such as individual cell towers, can turn any connected phone into its own tracking device.
"Phone records make determining the owners of these devices trivially easy..."
Then they speculate on which tools will be used to find them: While media organizations took thousands of photos police can use, they also have more advanced technologies at their disposal to identify participants, following what several other agencies have done in recent months... In November, The Washington Post reported that investigators from 14 local and federal agencies in the DC area have used a powerful facial recognition system more than 12,000 times since 2019.
Neither would an agency need actual photos or footage to track down any mob participant who was carrying a mobile phone. Law enforcement agencies have also developed a habit in recent years of using so-called geofence warrants to compel companies such as Google to provide lists of all mobile devices that appeared within a certain geographic area during a given time frame...
With all of that said, however, the DC Metropolitan Police and the FBI will probably need to look no further than a cursory Google search to identify many of the leaders of Wednesday's insurrection, as many of them took to social media both before and after the event to brag about it in detail. In short: you don't need fancy facial recognition tools to identify people who livestream their crimes.
Friday the Washington Post also cited "the countless hours of video — much of it taken by the rioters themselves and uploaded to social media" as a useful input for facial recognition software.
But in addition, they note that "The Capitol, more than most buildings, has a vast cellular and wireless data infrastructure of its own to make communications efficient in a building made largely of stone and that extends deep underground and has pockets of shielded areas. Such infrastructure, such as individual cell towers, can turn any connected phone into its own tracking device.
"Phone records make determining the owners of these devices trivially easy..."
Good! (Score:4, Insightful)
These people need the entire book thrown at them. There's no excuse for this. None.
Nobody was there by accident and nobody would think it was OK to do that.
I'm including Trump - for inciting this then doing nothing about it as it was happening.
(I bet there would have been SWAT teams there within minutes if it was one his personal properties...)
Re:Good! (Score:5, Interesting)
Trump’s executive order from last summer recommends a 10 year jail term for protesters. The irony is so sweet. Even funnier are these “special people” Trump has spoken of will lose their second amendment rights if they take a felony charge.
Re:Good! (Score:4, Insightful)
He also said, "When the looting starts, the shooting starts".
Re: (Score:2)
Technically the shooting started.
Re:Good! (Score:5, Informative)
Technically they weren’t looting (except that one guy who made off with a lectern).
And the guys who took laptops and paintings and so forth. But other than that no looting. Riiight.
Re:Good! (Score:4, Interesting)
And even the guy who stole an envelope off of Pelosi's desk, and then was kind enough to make a video of him standing outside the building holding it. Got yourself a nice prison sentence for a worthless piece of paper. Good job.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Good! (Score:2, Informative)
Actually, no. Once mail has left the USPS system and been delivered it is no longer "mail" in that sense. I had trouble once with someone grabbing my mail in school but since it happened after leaving the hands of the USPS and was delivered to the local non-USPS mail system at school it was no longer "mail".
I'm sure there's a long list of things he can be charged with but messing with mail delivery system is not one of them.
Re: Good! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Good! (Score:5, Insightful)
The more interesting charge is felony murder.
It's possible to be charged with first-degree murder under the felony murder rule even if there's no intent to kill. All that's necessary is the participation in the commission of a felony, where a death occurs during that felony, even if the defendant wasn't the one who killed the victim.
https://criminal.findlaw.com/c... [findlaw.com]
As soon as Babbit was shot, everyone who entered the capitol illegally became eligible for the charge. The fact that a federal police officer was also killed will weigh even more heavily. I guess technically, anyone who crossed the initial barrier could be considered a part of the insurrection and charged with murder.
Yeah, sucks to be an idiot naively joining other criminal idiots! I wouldn't even be surprised to see charged filed against the organizers of the initial rally by way or association with the president's actions. As I was taught as a child, be careful of the company you keep because you can be guilty by association.
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Re: (Score:2)
Technically they weren’t looting (except that one guy who made off with a lectern).
What about the missing laptops, etc.?
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What about the missing laptops, etc.?
That's Espionage, no?
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Whether or not it's espionage would depend on what they did with them later. But it's definitely looting in any case.
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Re:Good! (Score:5, Funny)
He was just taking a stand.
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*bada* *BOOM*!!!
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Re: Good! (Score:2)
There was the one guy from Alabama who died from a heart attack after accidentally tasing his nuts trying to steal a portrait of Tip O'Neil.
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Re: Good! (Score:5, Insightful)
"If a person who indulges in gluttony is a glutton, and a person who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron." — Spider Robinson
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"Even funnier are these “special people” Trump has spoken of will lose their second amendment rights if they take a felony charge."
A cop died during their riot, they're going down for felony murder.
Re:Good! (Score:5, Informative)
These people need the entire book thrown at them. There's no excuse for this. None.
Indeed. They basically want to remove democracy by sabotaging its workings.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel said regarding these events (paraphrased) "Democratic elections come with winners and losers and both are expected to play their roles with integrity and dignity to keep democracy alive". That covers the essence of things nicely.
Nobody was there by accident and nobody would think it was OK to do that.
I'm including Trump - for inciting this then doing nothing about it as it was happening.
(I bet there would have been SWAT teams there within minutes if it was one his personal properties...)
Yes. While he did a paper-thin "go home in peace" CYA statement, he also repeatedly validated the stance of these people.
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Nope. She may have said something like that there as well, but the statement I refer to she made a few days ago and specifically regarding the events at the US Capitol.
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This is was a different event. In summer right-wing extremists overran the barriers and tried to storm the Reichstag waving right-wing flags on the stairs. They were pushed back by police. The difference was that it did not seem planned and police in riot gear prevented them from entering the building.
But make no mistake, the continuous attacks by right-wing extremists against western democracies are a real threat - also in Germany.
Re:Good! (Score:5, Informative)
I'm reasonably sane, and I can say that.
1. Trumps lawyers were VERY careful not to bring up such allegations in court, because a lawyer can be severely punished for lying to the court,
2. No court, including those presided over by Trump appointed judges found any evidence of fraud or rigging.
3. No state election officials, including Republicans, found any evidence of fraud or rigging
Go back to your basement
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One of the most bizarre facets of the whole Trump administration and his followers is that their own party was also considered to be the opposition if they had not sworn personally loyalty to the person of Trump. The rioters were looking for Pence as their main target, not Pelosi or Schumer, and I think most of them truly believed that Pence was a "traitor" in their warped reality.
Re:Good! (Score:4, Interesting)
he also repeatedly validated the stance of these people
Because it's a valid stance. Something stinks about the election, no sane person can say there is no suspicion of rigging.
This a) shows clearly you are not sane and b) validating the stance of armed rioters while they are rioting is direct support for the riot.
Re:Good! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Good! (Score:5, Interesting)
Nobody was there by accident and nobody would think it was OK to do that.
Yes the participants did think it was OK. And many others.
The "Elizabeth" lady interviewed who was so outraged she was maced as she tried to force herself in the building. Because "it's a revolution!"
Everyone who took pictures of themselves committing felonies.
I'm Very bothered by reports of Capitol Hill officers participating in selfies with the rioters. They didn't see anything wrong with it. Also one cop pointing out the directions to Schumer's office like it was a middle-school tour going on.
And whoever gave repeated refusals to Gov Hogan that he could not send NG troops.
Don't kid yourself. There are MANY people who think this is all OK.
And all for a lie. And not one lie but many lies.
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She wasn't even maced. If you watch the frames of her interview, she's clearly holding a half-sphere of something white, likely an onion. Maybe it's something else and I'm wrong, but when I see people that have been maced being interviewed, they can't open their eyes at all without really having their eyes flushed, and she doesn't look like she's had a bucket of water dumped on her head.
Re:Good! (Score:5, Informative)
I wouldn't be so sure. 45% of Republicans support the storming of the Capitol building: https://imgur.com/a/C0EAJm2 [imgur.com]
Source: https://today.yougov.com/topic... [yougov.com]
Re:One error in the logic though... (Score:5, Insightful)
These people have been radicalized just like suicide bombers for al qaeda, and need to be handled as such
It is time to shut down the media outlets that support the continued radicalization through lies and propaganda that trump, fox, oan, newsmax,etc... spew
Re: One error in the logic though... (Score:5, Insightful)
These people can not be reasoned with. This was posted on the Nye County, NV GOP website:
https://nyegop.org/2021/01/08/... [nyegop.org]
They will just keep doubling down and doubling down.
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So amazingly insane. "Expect more bombshell evidence", when there hasn't been any even mild evidence yet. Time for the Republican party to split? I honestly thought it would do that 4 years ago, maybe it was just delayed until some invisible line was crossed?
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Civilization, while we would like to think otherwise, is not yet to the point where things like this don't happen. Until that point, sticks are better than carrots. When you were a child and did something your parents deemed wrong, did you stop because they simply said so, or because they had previously done something to make you fearful of a punishment.
Fear of punishment is still the only thing keeping society from falling apart. If you don't see t
Wait a minute (Score:2)
The same way ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Dreamer. You've killed your brand for a generation with this, traitor. Why do you hate democracy? Is it because, you can't hold power when the people have a choice? Yeah. That's it. When people vote, you lose. And you hate losing. You despise losers. And that's you, losers. You lost the election, fair and square. And you lost your little cosplay insurrection. And now, you'll do nothing but lose. I enjoy the fact that you despise yourself now.
We need to catch those guys with the zip ties (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
I'm sure Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley are totally on board with this, just as soon as the Neo-na-zis and Q Shaman vote for them.
Re:We need to catch those guys with the zip ties (Score:5, Insightful)
Relatively harmless?
They were literally a mob, actively calling for harm to the vice president and the speaker of the house repeatedly as they marched towards exactly those people.
What do you think would have happened if they caught them?
Honestly - what do you think would have happened?
"Relatively harmless" - these words of justification are absurd.
Ryan Fenton
If the DC police had enough man power (Score:2)
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The capitol police have become soft and wussy is all. Normally, for most my life, more of those low life would have been shot after breaking in. The blame is on them.
Look up some videos (Score:2)
Re: Look up some videos (Score:2)
Most mobs easily broken with lethal force (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:We need to catch those guys with the zip ties (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, it was (Score:2)
Re: Yeah, it was (Score:5, Informative)
One was a pro:
https://taskandpurpose.com/new... [taskandpurpose.com]
The other, well, he came all the way out with his mommy. Eric Munchel.
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Zip ties? Off duty police perhaps?
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Of course that is just hearsay, so put the ex military thing in the gossip folder until it's been verified.
If he was military though, he's a total disgrace for violating the oath he made when he joined the military.
I wonder if sedition or insurrection cancels your military/VA benefits.
Re: We need to catch those guys with the zip ties (Score:2)
Shouldn't it cancel your *citizenship* benefits?
Re: We need to catch those guys with the zip ties (Score:4)
https://taskandpurpose.com/new... [taskandpurpose.com]
He's already confirmed in media statements that the ID is correct. Say his name loud. He betrayed his oath as an officer in the USAF.
Re: (Score:3)
He claimed that he had found the zip-tie handcuffs on the floor. "I wish I had not picked those up," he told me. "My thought process there was I would pick them up and give them to an officer when I see one. . . . I didn't do that because I had put them in my coat, and I honestly forgot about them."
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Zip ties? Off duty police perhaps?
Yeah, this. Those weren't just regular zip ties you get at the hardware store. Those were the type of zip ties specifically designed for restraint -- tactical zip ties. Yeah, you can get them on Amazon, but it seems like you wouldn't really be aware of them unless you had a military or LE background.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, you can get them on Amazon, but it seems like you wouldn't really be aware of them unless you had a military or LE background.
Don't forget that Meal Team 6 likes to play soldier, and has probably played ever version of CS/MoH/whatever...
Re: (Score:2)
One of the guys with the zip-ties was identified as a retired AF Lt. Col. I forget the name but you could find it pretty easily. Many family members were avoiding him because he had become increasingly radicalized in recent years.
Re:We need to catch those guys with the zip ties (Score:5, Insightful)
I think that you put a pin in it, radicalization
Trump and crew and "radicalized" a large segment of the US just like Osama bin Laden and al qaeda radicalized large segments of many Arabian Gulf nations.
We need to recognize that they have been brain washed and need to be treated just like we would treat somebody convinced to suicide bomb a concert
If fact, I hope that US security groups are already watching for this, as much as trump has tried to blind them
Yeah, radicalization, this is far from over
Re: (Score:2)
Everyone else, while problematic, is relatively harmless. Those guys came equipped to take hostages. It is very likely they intended to execute members of Congress in order to force elections. The fact that people like that both exist in America and have the means to break into the Capital building needs to be addressed if we're going to continue to exist as a Democracy. Had the Capital building been evacuated just a little slower we'd be having a very different conversation right now...
Indeed. They will basically treat those (and anybody else armed) as terrorism suspects. And since the zip-tie guys basically threatened elected representatives _personally_ with grievous harm, there will be a lot of pressure to get them and I expect they will get them all pretty soon.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
It is very likely they intended to execute members of Congress in order to force elections.
I think their plan was even more insidious than that. You don't need zip ties to kill people, you just shoot them. Also, killing a few members of congress wouldn't change the results of the election, as all that is needed to certify the election results is a simple majority.
The *most* likely scenario was they were going to kidnap senators and representatives and replace them with doppelgangers who would then vote to reject the election results. As Trump supporters, this would be their end goal, right?
I mean
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hahaha, no that doppelganger idea is silly movie fodder and wouldn't work, rest of congress wouldn't accept them. Intimidation was the goal, just having the zip ties does that. No objection even went anywhere, couldn't go anywhere.
Just a bunch of losers and lowlife taking advantage of weak capitol police, they've really become soft and useless these days. Should have been a lot more of those shot after clear kill zone established.
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https://images.theconversation.com/files/377789/original/file-20210108-21-lkk5io.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&rect=67%2C33%2C5540%2C3631&q=45&auto=format&w=496&fit=clip
Re: (Score:2)
The protesters also erected a cross, but I don't think they intended to crucify anyone. Or do you people think the crowd contained Roman infiltrators with hammers and big tactical nails?
Re: We need to catch those guys with the zip ties (Score:3)
Already done. Eric Munchel, a bartender from Nashville and, more scarily, Larry Brock Jr. Lt.Col USAF-retired, a decorated combat veteran.
Sounds like someone's going to be losing their military pension. I'm sure there's a clause in the UCMJ somewhere regarding insurrection and sedition.
Re: (Score:3)
I don't know about *everyone* else being harmless. There were the guys who beat cops with pipes and fire extinguishers. The ones that tried to crush the cop who was stuck in the door. Then there were the people with the pipe bombs and molotov cocktails. Even the people who stole random papers weren't completely harmless
As for the means, you don't need means if the police aren't prepared for you to defy verbal instructions. The capitol police didn't put out actual riot control barriers -- the ones that
Re: (Score:2)
offs seek the help of a mental health practitioner
Public confessions (Score:2)
The really irony, visible even across the pond here in the UK, is that many of them sought out TV cameras and actually bragged about their behaviour, gave their names and home states to reporters. I think this just underlines their shocking ignorance of reality.
Re:Public confessions (Score:4, Insightful)
They probably thought they would be hailed as heros, this is result of radicalization like seen in Arabian Gulf nations
Just post their pictures online (Score:2)
No need for AI, phone tracking etc. Just do the standard "If anyone knows this person...". Unless they're hermit loners they'll be recognised and someone - family/colleague/former lover/guy at a checkout - will send in their names.
Sometimes the old ways are the best.
Re: Just post their pictures online (Score:2)
Funny though, how many people will be founs in the US, that look exactly the same.
Don't rely on people's minds only. Even on photos.
Re: (Score:2)
Phone tracing needs to be performed to root out "cells" connect to the people who attended
Everything that was put in place after 9-11 should be "burning the midnight oil" right about now
Re: Just post their pictures online (Score:2)
The one ziptie guy was caught on video wearing the exact same pants (a rare, expensive camo pattern) and hat in the lobby of his hotel Thursday morning, along with his mom who he was photographed with throughout the insurrection and did not wear a mask.
Oh, as part of his tacticool LARPing he was carrying as part of his kit an aircraft signaling flare...
Will be an interesting benchmark (Score:5, Interesting)
Basically, there are traditional and modern options. Traditional ones include witnesses and putting up bounties. That has already happened. Also looking at travel that fits a pattern, cash withdrawals in the area, hotel reservations, etc.
Modern options include cell-phone tracking (many of the morons had theirs on, you see them taking pictures and checking messages), reading postings, looking at pictures and videos that indicate somebody participated taking them, people writing about having seen others there, etc.
My prediction is that they will be identifying more than 90% of the participants that were in the building reliably and they can already charge all of them for that alone. May take a year or longer though, simply because they have to work slow and carefully to make sure evidence stays valid.
Re: (Score:3)
I think the biggest problem from a legal perspective will be proving that an individual protestor did something wrong. The guy stealing the podium is going to be hit hard, but a protestor who followed the crowd in might not have even known that the building was broken into.
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Yeah. They certainly weren't stopping people from entering.
Trump was delighted (Score:4, Informative)
Republican senator: White House aides say Trump was "delighted" as Capitol was stormed [vox.com]
Re:Trump was delighted (Score:5, Insightful)
>>Sen. Ben Sasse said that, according to senior White House officials, Trump was “confused” why others weren’t as excited.
That is telling, why did they all let the President live in a media bubble where this would seem like the right thing to do?
All of the enablers are just as guilty as the big orange turd himself
Tracking (Score:2)
Not only are we no where near being able to make technology like that, it would be totally redundant, especially with those morons.
Re: Tracking (Score:2)
Of course ot woild be redundant,
but we are definitely not "nowhere near" mate.
I fact RFID chips as small as grains of powder have not been new since 10 yeara ago. Waved my hand through them as if it was fine sand myself.
And there are armies where this replaces classical dog tags for quite some time now.
The only thing missing from the picture is that of course without a large antenna, even holding the reader right up to the skin with the chip underneath won't work unless you got crazy sensitive sensors and c
Some of the mob already identified on twitter (Score:3)
I seriously don't get it... (Score:2, Interesting)
I assumed:
* The NSA actvely injects moles as agents provocateura into such groups to divide and discredit them, and has done so before on the Tea Party and Occupy, according to the Snowden leaks.
* Capitol Hill, being so exteremely important, is highly secured. By highly trained agents that are armed to the teeth. You'd obviously get shot if you tried to storm it.
* It is also obviously under total surveillance. So everyone will be recorded. And you don't get out without being captured and identified (or shot
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not one of your partisans. Im not one of your stereotypes, nor do I believe in any conspiracy theories or anticonspiracy theories. In fact I don't side, in general, and don't believe, period.
Ahhh. So your one of those people who want their mind so open their brains fall out.
Occam's Razor, bitch - it works.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No, he's just not you ... determined to divide people into teams and sides for the purpose of winning some sort of ideological war.
I know exactly what I believe in. I *don't* have an "open mind." I have values, principles and ideals that I do not compromise on. And by those values and principles, both the left and the right look completely batshit crazy and insanely dishonest to me. There is so much spin, narrative, hypocrisy and bullshit coming from both sides that I can't tell who is the lesser evil at th
Re: (Score:3)
You don't need the NSA to know this was going to happen. You don't need guys with black bags to install surveillance gear or break codes, you need someone to get an account on the social medium forums these guys use and lurk.
Clearly what was wanting wasn't technical ability, but motivation. It's not like the cops don't do these things, they just don't do them to Trump supporters.
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It's a few things. First, nobody needed the NSA. These ding-dongs were posting it all over the net. But frankly few people probably took them seriously. When was the last time right wingers did something like this on this scale? And no, Charlottesville is not the same - that was pretty close to mutual combat between left wingnuts and right wingnuts.
You had the Bundy family nuts, but that was a pretty small group of people. Trump has called his tards to Washington before and they mostly did normal protesting
Don't Identify Them Until January 21 (Score:2)
Otherwise the list of rioters is merely a list of last minute pardons.
Mask holes. (Score:2)
The good news is that these fucking idiots fought for "the right to choose" to wear a mask, and most chose not to. That makes combing surveillance footage quite useful for identifying and charging insurrectionists.
Besides the selfies? (Score:3)
The policeman who got the selfies with the protesters should be promoted. He was de-escalating a very dangerous situation _and_ he got evidence for later analysis.
Right! Punishing protesters is super American! (Score:3)
Protesters were doxxed by online vigilantes and exposed by Orwellian biometric databases, but I said nothing, because I thought the reason behind their protest was totally moronic, and honestly, I thought they were kinda garbage people. But is that really the right approach?
Or is the real courageous position to say that yes, the reason behind this protest was moronic and the people doing it were kinda garbage, but we need to stand up in their defense anyway, because even though we recoil at the thought of looting in the Capital, we should recoil even more at the thought of becoming a country that lacks the pressure valve of rowdy, ugly dissent. The protesters who actually destroyed property should get a bill, and anyone who hurt someone should go to jail, but for "crimes" like trespassing, committed in the context of political protest, I think it's very important that we show leniency. And we have to be consistent about this. We can't apply different rules depending on whether the protesters wear MAGA hats or pussy hats, even if our feelings about their causes are really different.
Re:Double Standard? (Score:5, Interesting)
The only difference between them is the capital groups lean right and the others leaned left, so why tolerate left leaning domestic terrorism and not right?
That's not the only difference. If the dumbfucks at the Capital had taken COVID more seriously, they would have been masked up and mostly unidentifiable. Never mind that one dipshit who proudly displayed his workplace ID badge as he committed acts of sedition. No, what we're dealing with here are stupid idiots and domestic terrorists who clearly do not understand that their actions have consequences. No doubt those who have been charged in the "leftist" BLM protests over the past year have learned the same lesson.
Maybe instead of doing whataboutism ad infinitum, we could focus on one shitshow at a time?
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Re: (Score:2)
You sure want to push this moral equivalency.
I'm gonna be blunt, whatever some elements of BLM and Antifa, you're side is pure evil.
Re:Double Standard? (Score:5, Informative)
Approximately 14,000 people who took part in criminal activities during BLM protests were arrested nationwide.
During just 3 days of the protests in DC May 30 - June 2, 427 people were arrested.
The double standard is that for BLM protests, far more law enforcement was deployed from the outset, far more aggressive responses were used even when the vast majority of the protesters were peaceful and far far more arrests were made.
So do you have any more bullshit assertions to make?
Re:Double Standard? (Score:5, Interesting)
Now please square what you just said with the unidentified federal agents arresting people on the streets of Portland without due process, without charges, without identifying themselves, without official uniform or badges, and without consent of the local governments to act on their behalf.
It will be fun to watch the linguistic contortionism.
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you watch too much right wing media, please avoid the forces that are radicalizing you
Accelerating Idiocracy (Score:2)
Humans are too stupid (100 IQ is hardly sufficient to operate a democracy and barely sufficient to operate a life) to make freedom work long-term.
See the faces at any mass gathering. Intelligence isn't looking back. Our current, now permanent (until the proverbial asteroid hits) Idiocracy was inevitable because medical technology stopped evolution while eugenics (the friendly passive sort where mistakes aren't allowed to happen) is not an option requires a surveillance state to maintain order.
The cost of ig
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Washington is one of my Heros, read about how he put down the Whisky Rebellion (an anti-tax movement). [wikipedia.org]
It is a fine example of how to treat mobs of thugs who try and destroy the country from within.
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I would love to see AZ congress-critter Gosar arrested for stalling the vote counting by trying to force an AZ recount