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FAA Chief '100% Confident' of 737 MAX Safety As Flights To Resume (yahoo.com) 170

Hmmmmmm shares a report: U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) chief Steve Dickson is "100% confident" in the safety of the Boeing 737 MAX but says the airplane maker has more to do as it works to improve its safety culture. Dickson on Wednesday signed an order to allow the best-selling plane to resume flights after it was grounded worldwide in March 2019 following two crashes that killed 346 people and led to Boeing's biggest crisis in decades. The order will end the longest grounding in commercial aviation history and paves the way for Boeing to resume U.S. deliveries and commercial flights by the end of the year. "We've done everything humanly possible to make sure" these types of crashes do not happen again," FAA Administrator Dickson told Reuters in a 30-minute telephone interview, adding the design changes "have eliminated what caused these particular accidents." The FAA is requiring new training to deal with a key safety system called MCAS that is faulted for the two fatal crashes as well as significant new safeguards and other software changes. "I feel 100% confident," said Dickson, a former airline and military pilot, who took over as FAA administration in August 2019 and took the controls for a 737 MAX test flight in September. In a video message released on Wednesday, he said that the 20-month review was "long and grueling, but we said from the start that we would take the time necessary to get this right." Dickson said he emphasized to Boeing the importance of safety. "I understand they have a business to run but they don't have anything if they don't have a safe product," Dickson said. Dickson suggested Boeing has more to do to improve safety.
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FAA Chief '100% Confident' of 737 MAX Safety As Flights To Resume

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  • Meh... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Freischutz ( 4776131 ) on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @11:04AM (#60738628)
    I'm still not setting foot in one of those things.
    • Re:Meh... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by dotancohen ( 1015143 ) on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @11:20AM (#60738704) Homepage

      It's a dynamically unstable airframe made "stable" in software. That might be fine for an F-16 or B-2, but not for my family.

      I'm crazy excited to fly on SpaceX's Starship when that begins E2E transportation services. But I won't fly on a 737 with huge oversized pylons bolted on to hang huge oversized engines out too far forward and then a computer trimming the elevator to compensate. I'd rather fly the 1.2% less efficient 737 Classic, and you can gladly add 1.2% more to the cost of my ticket for letting me enjoy a stable, well-developed and decades-proven airframe design.

      • Re:Meh... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by thegreatbob ( 693104 ) on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @11:37AM (#60738846) Journal
        Not dynamically unstable, apparently not even remotely unstable. Early on, there was a lot of speculation that this thing might be extremely prone to self-reinforcing pitch movements, but if true, doesn't seem to be anywhere near as bad as people were suspecting. This was also my initial impression, but I've since backed off from it as more information on the machine's aerodynamics/flight characteristics have become available.

        Different engine nacelles/placement thereof appear to have introduced aerodynamic changes that cause center of lift to move forward at high angles of attack, presumably leading to pitch control forces that don't meet certification requirements.

        Not CoG - irrelevant, easily fixed by adjusting loading charts. Engine is not that much heavier (in the context of a 100,000 lb plane, < 1000 lbs extra engine weight, not too far from center mass)

        Not center of thrust either, nor engine power - thrust centerline hasn't moved much, and the engines aren't hugely more powerful. Thrust pitch up is still managed by the Speed Trim System, and is a basic characteristic of aircraft with low-mounted jets. For all their faults, I suspect the engineering team at least got this part right (though I can understand doubts)
        • Re:Meh... (Score:5, Informative)

          by Carrier Lifetime ( 6166666 ) on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @01:21PM (#60739478)

          I don't understand why the instability misconception gets repeated over and over. MCAS was there to make the 737 MAX flight characteristics the same as previous 737 version, to avoid the need to retrain pilots. MCAS is not remotely fast enough to stabilize the aircraft. Unstable aircraft must be fly-by-wire, which the 737 is not.

          • I suppose it makes sense to the lay person, and there was a lot of speculation on the matter early on. It's the unqualified declarations of instability that really bother me. If someone has an argument to make, that's fine, but the "they moved the engines therefore it's unstable because CoG and/or CoT" line that gets thrown around without further qualification has grown tiresome.
          • by amorsen ( 7485 )

            MCAS was there to make the 737 MAX flight characteristics the same as previous 737 version, to avoid the need to retrain pilots.

            This is not correct. MCAS is there (not was, it is still there) because the regular flight control surfaces are insufficient to keep the plane from stalling in situations with high engine power and low speed. The only thing that has sufficient authority is the trim, because that moves the entire horizontal stabilizer.

            They could have redesigned the plane with sufficiently large control surfaces, or they could have placed the engines more sensibly, but either of those would mean that the aircraft would have t

            • Speed Trim System (which also uses the stabilizer) manages pitch up from thrust (and other aspects of automatic stabilizer trim), as it has on previous models. Stabilizer is very slow; it will not save you from a stall if e.g. you firewall the throttles while already buffeting.

              MCAS is not an anti-stall/stall prevention device. Based on all available information, the name Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System seems to fit very well - meant to make the plane handle the same as the older models. Nee
              • An additional note: Boeing apparently tried (successfully?) to bullshit the FAA (ca. 2013) by claiming that MCAS was simply a small addition to the Speed Trim System, rather than something completely new.
        • Re:Meh... (Score:5, Interesting)

          by jbengt ( 874751 ) on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @02:15PM (#60739702)

          Not dynamically unstable, apparently not even remotely unstable.
          Different engine nacelles/placement thereof appear to have introduced aerodynamic changes that cause center of lift to move forward at high angles of attack, presumably leading to pitch control forces that don't meet certification requirements.

          So increasing the angle of attack beyond a certain point increases the moment of lift in such as way as to increase the angle of attack more, which presumably increases the moment of lift, etc.? That sounds unstable to me, at least at high enough angles of attack for the MCAS to kick in and try to undo the effect.
          That said, though, the actual deadly problem was that the MCAS kicked in when it shouldn't have.

          • No, what i'm saying (speculating, based on everything i've read to date) is that the controls become unacceptably light under the circumstances and don't meet FAR requirements. Could lead to over-control. Early on, it seemed like they might be trying to mitigate a nasty positive pitch feedback loop, but nothing ever materialized to support this.
        • Like me, I guess you do not know the true degree of instability either -- Boeing's engineering simply isn't releasing that data to the general public. So you just have to "Trust the Techsperts!" (TM) -- Boeing and the FCC. Or trust other experts like MIT's director of air transportation (who says below this tendency is not acceptable, but seems to change his opinion in a later interview, and think MCAS is acceptable for transport category aircraft after all)

          https://www.forbes.com/sites/p... [forbes.com]

          As I understand it, at high angles of attack the Nacelles -- which are the tube shaped structures around the fans -- create aerodynamic lift. Because the engines are further forward, the lift tends to push the nose up -- causing the angle of attack to increase further. This reinforces itself and results in a pitch-up tendency which if not corrected can result in a stall. This is called an unstable or divergent condition. It should be noted that many high performance aircraft have this tendency but it is not acceptable in transport category aircraft [emphasis mine] where there is a requirement that the aircraft is stable and returns to a steady condition if no forces are applied to the controls.

          If "not even remo

    • Re:Meh... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by bobbied ( 2522392 ) on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @11:23AM (#60738740)

      Your choice - For me and my family it's not a problem.

      This is going to be the most scrutinized aircraft in the sky. All of them are nearly new, still under warranty with the airlines keeping them well maintained. Pilots will all be re-trained and certified recently and any minor issue will be given prompt attention.

      This will literally be the safest aircraft in the sky from my perspective.

      • Hopefully it will also have less frightened, stupid people on it.

        • Did you mean less-frightened, stupid people? Or fewer frightened, stupid people?

          (The former has stupid people that have a smaller amount of fright. The latter has smaller number of frightened, stupid people.) :-)

      • Only from your perspective. But in reality it is nowhere near being the safest aircraft since it is built using 1960s safety standards. It has neither envelope protection nor EICAS. The 737 is the only airliner still in manufacturing that doesn't have either. Even the last two Soviet jets had it.

        • So, you feel EICAS is required for safety? Envelope protection?

          Up to you, but how many crashes of 737 would have been prevented by these things? This aircraft has been flying for decades, surely you can show how these things are necessary for safe operating. I think that looking back on an aircraft's operational history is important, and that making such a radical change to the 737's operation by adding in an EICAS system could be argued as being risky too. So just throwing automation and safety syste

          • Even the FAA feels that EICAS is required for safety, but has allowed Boeing to grandfather the 737 design.

            https://www.seattletimes.com/b... [seattletimes.com]

            Having settled on retaining its older cockpit alerting system, Boeing then needed to convince the FAA that the MAX should not have to meet all the latest federal crew alerting requirements, which are closely aligned with the capabilities of the EICAS system.

            In a fly by wire aircraft the MCAS wouldn't have been needed in the first place because it would fly the same way

            • And the ECAS system in the 320 has *caused* accidents too.. but we digress.

              Look, the thing I'm trying to say is that apparently there are valid reasons why the FAA did this. Often the FAA has to weigh the financial costs against the risks and they are supposed to be the party not motivated by profit who referees this whole process. IF you don't like the FAA's choice, blame them, but there ARE considerations here beyond just the cost. Just having equipment on the aircraft does nothing for safety unless y

      • by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

        All of them are nearly new, still under warranty with the airlines keeping them well maintained.

        Except for, you know the hundreds that have been sitting on the ground for the past 2 years. Have they been getting regular checks? Sure, probably. But that takes a while, and with covid working hours/staffing has been cut everywhere, so how thorough have the latest checks been? Modern aircraft are complicated, and there's a lot of things that can be affected when in aircraft is grounded this long.

      • Your choice - For me and my family it's not a problem.

        This is going to be the most scrutinized aircraft in the sky. All of them are nearly new, still under warranty with the airlines keeping them well maintained. Pilots will all be re-trained and certified recently and any minor issue will be given prompt attention.

        This will literally be the safest aircraft in the sky from my perspective.

        Literally the most scrutinized, but not the safest.

        During development, if Boeing realized the plane was fatally flawed they could easily scrap it and start over.

        Now they have something like $10 billion in unsold inventory... that's a lot of pressure to get something certified as "safe".

        Couple that with an FAA administrator who was approved in a party-line vote (lots of Trump nominations did get bi-partisan support) because he allegedly retaliated against a safety whistle-blower [politico.com] and there's reasons to doubt

        • by jabuzz ( 182671 )

          Trick is to just wait till the EASA certifies it safe for return to flight. There is no mechanism for Boeing to buy them off.

        • The reasons for the 737 Max still exist and their are a number of less than obvious financial reasons for the airlines to take delivery.

          Now the COVID thing is going to be a damper on the industry for awhile, but I don't think that's going to be all that long lasting. However, that accounts for the short term slump, well that and the grounding, which has prevented Boeing from delivering already completed aircraft. This will slowly change as the world returns to flying and the reasons the airlines where o

    • by hughbar ( 579555 )
      Me neither. Ryanair has some and serves two of the routes I need to go to SW France. So I'll be looking elsewhere. This is not a 737, lots of changes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] just has a 737 sticker on it, so it could be waved through the tests.
    • by Sneftel ( 15416 )

      I never really know what to make of comments like this. I don't know you personally; I assume most Slashdot users don't know you personally; you're communicating to a diffuse audience here, rather than people who care about you individually. (That's not to say I don't care about you, just that it's the sort of care I extend to strangers.)

      And there's no argument in your comment, no appeal to evidence or emotion or anything, just speaking up with your opinion -- the opinion of a stranger, which doesn't invali

      • by Pascoea ( 968200 )

        what effect are you hoping that comment will have

        Frist Post! You can't get first post while putting time and thought into a rational comment.

        • by Sneftel ( 15416 )

          Maybe. But there's similar comments further down, so I don't think that's the only potential motivation.

      • So, like.... what effect are you hoping that comment will have? I'm not being snarky, I am genuinely interested.

        First post, got upvoted to the highest level, and set the tone of the conversation. I agree it may not have been very informative or thought-provoking but I thought the desired effect was obvious, and it was apparently effective as well.

        • Set the tone of the conversation? Nah. That was implicit in the topic; Slashdotters love to show how cynical they are. Any story where authority X says Y is Z, the tone of the response is how Y is not actually Z at all. I suppose one could just put it down to karma whoring, but that seems like an awfully quick deductive leap.

    • I'm still not setting foot in one of those things.

      I never ordinarily paid much attention to the type of aircraft I booked a flight on.

      From now on I will.

    • Dump the software that makes it "fly" like a 737 certify it as the new plane it is and let the pilots re-certify on the new plane. That they were ever able to claim it was a 737 with some small adjustments just so the pilots didn't have to certify on the new design is criminal and all C levels should go to jail for manslaughter.

    • Nope, nope, nope. Never going near one of these. Sorry Boeing, you screwed the pooch on this one. Unstable aircraft made stable through software. Nope, nope, nope.
      • Not unstable; read around the other comments on this matter to find out why. Stupid design choices/deficiencies, yes. Unstable, no. Unless you care to elaborate on how you're defining 'unstable'.
  • He can be the first passenger on the first flight.

    • In some sense he already has been. He's been the pilot on some of the test flights. [seattletimes.com]
      • by Tailhook ( 98486 )

        Trump appointed an actual pilot to run the FAA? Weird. Thankfully we'll get back to running things with conventional lawyer-bureaucrats in a couple months, like the one [wikipedia.org] that ran things for most of the time the 737 MAX was being pencil whipped.

        • Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

          • by Tailhook ( 98486 )

            Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

            Actually it's his second FAA administrator appointment and the first was a pilot as well.

            But as I said, the good news is we'll get back to normal and replace all these Trumpster fascists with well connected lawyers next year.

  • by schwit1 ( 797399 ) on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @11:11AM (#60738666)

    Every member of the flying public ought to refuse to fly a 737max until the decision makers at Boeing and the FAA are charged criminally.

    • Every member of the flying public ought to refuse to fly a 737max. The public should fly on dynamicly-stable airframes. Leave the dynamically-unstable airframes to the fighter jets and stealth bombers.

      Especially when the consideration for making this airframe dynamically unstable was not maneuverability, nor reducing flight control surfaces for stealth, but rather to save money. No, I'll not let you fly my family on a dynamically unstable airframe to save you money.

      • So the public should not fly on the majority of planes that have carried consumer air traffic?

        There's nothing unsafe about the 737MAX's airframe and it would happily have been certified without MCAS, albeit as a different plane requiring pilot type certification.

        • by amorsen ( 7485 )

          There's nothing unsafe about the 737MAX's airframe and it would happily have been certified without MCAS, albeit as a different plane requiring pilot type certification.

          If that had been the case, Boeing would simply have removed the MCAS and saved themselves at least a year of grounding.

          MCAS is a necessity, the elevator is insufficient to keep the 737 MAX from pitching up and stalling. Only the trim can do that, and you cannot require pilots to use the trim instead of the elevator in normal flight.

    • If the only reason they were charged was that a mob eventually demanded it, wouldn't the correct legal outcome be to dismiss the charges with prejudice and fine the prosecutors?

    • Else there's no grounds for legal action.

    • by bobbied ( 2522392 ) on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @12:21PM (#60739158)

      For what crime?

      Serious question.

      Look, I know it's popular to bash "big bad Boeing" for malfeasance, but if you truthfully review how this all happened there wasn't anything criminal here. Like all disasters of this kind, it was caused by a series of mistakes, misunderstanding and a process that failed to catch them. Nobody at Boeing or the FAA said anything close to "screw safety, save a buck and just do it!" regardless of all the media coverage and Boeing bashers suggesting otherwise. Everybody followed the process, nobody knew there was an issue or imagined that there would be a chance of two planeloads of people dying.

      The MCAS was added late in the certification process. Test flights had turned up an issue and the solution was to pull the MCAS off the shelf (the MAX wasn't the first air frame to use this) and put it on the MAX. Remember this was LATE in the test flying, used an off the shelf solution and was only supposed to address a narrow part of the flight envelope where the control forces where not within the prescribed regulations. The process allowed this, and the "fix" wasn't seen for the danger it turned out to be and the risk management process didn't catch these failure modes. It also caused the information the pilots needed to deal with the malfunction from reaching them. The pilots manuals and training had already been written and approved when flight testing was in progress. I'm sure it would have been in future documentation, but it was absent from the initial versions, and that was a problem.

      All of these things are understandable and don't require negligence or malfeasance on Boeing or the FAA's part. This wasn't criminal, it was a series of mistakes, mistakes the process should have caught, but missed. Who's responsible for this? So how are these people now criminally liable for this? I don't think anybody is.

      To me, the issue has ALWAYS been the process, not the people of Boeing or the FAA. Nearly 400 people died because the process failed and that let a series of events happen that crashed two aircraft. This wasn't criminal... This was really just a "normal accident" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] That was unfortunate but an inevitable part of fielding such complex systems and infrastructure.

  • by nicolaiplum ( 169077 ) on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @11:13AM (#60738672)

    The European Aviation Safety Agency has not approved the 737 MAX for passenger flights.
    None of these agencies are trusting the FAA to do this testing and are insisting on their own testing (which is new - the FAA was trusted, but not any more):
    EASA (Europe)
    TC (Canada)
    DGCA (India)
    CASA (Australia)
    CAAC (China)

    EASA, in particular, is insisting on more engineering work from Boeing.

    I will not be getting into a 737 MAX until at least EASA has approved it, and preferably other regulators as well.

    The FAA are not trusted on this (by me and most of the world) - it's lost competence (due not least to lack of staff and budget) and has suffered regulatory capture by Boeing. The FAA may be trustable in future, but they will have to earn the trust again.

    • I will not be getting into a 737 MAX

      You will not be getting into a MAX, but a MAX might get into you

    • The European Aviation Safety Agency has not approved the 737 MAX for passenger flights.
      None of these agencies are trusting the FAA to do this testing

      It is as if you started watching the news this year, and haven't yet figured out exactly what "countries" are yet, and if a regulatory approval in one country normally is just "trusted" by other countries, or if they actually have little (formally) to do with each other.

    • Technically true - But misleading.

      The EASA has signaled that it WILL approve the 737 MAX for flight without the additional software work to provide the additional "virtual AOA" sensor to allow additional cross checks when the actual AOA sensors disagree. What they have said is that they will allow the 737 MAX to fly in the FAA approved configuration with the understanding that at some point in the future, when the new software has been fully vetted and certified, the new software will be added to the mini

  • by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @11:15AM (#60738678)

    Remember, that's the same guys who certified that abortion of a redundancy-less DAL-A add-on to the 737 as flightworthy. Forgive me if my eyes remained slightly glazed after this announcement.

    • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @12:08PM (#60739100)

      Part of the problem was that the original design limited the authority of the MCAS trim commands. And analysis showed that there wouldn't be problems with it. But Boeing went on to tweak the design parameters without warning the FAA that major changes had been made. So the FAA just said, "Looks good to us." Not realizing that the production implementation differed significantly.

      I worked at Boeing years ago. And one of my assignments was to do an FMEA [wikipedia.org] on a system. Management ordered that the worksheets be hand written. No word processors. Supposedly so we could claim that they were not produced by cutting and pasting. But in actuality so that it was practically impossible for the certification agencies to do a 'diff' and find changes. I don't know how the MAX certification was done. But I suspect that the Boeing practice of shipping truckloads of documentation made independent reviews of their work difficult.

    • Remember, that's the same guys who certified that abortion of a redundancy-less DAL-A add-on to the 737 as flightworthy. Forgive me if my eyes remained slightly glazed after this announcement.

      With hindsight this was a bad call, but if you look at the situation objectively I think you would see that what happened is understandable. This was what is known as a "normal accident" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] Such accidents are difficult to prevent, and as systems get more and more complex the difficulty increases geometrically. What happened is the process failed. It wasn't that any individual or group of engineers didn't do their jobs, it wasn't that the FAA was asleep a the wheel and missed

  • They really should put all the FAA committee members, and the Boing execs and engineers on the first flight!

  • The first time you gave them authorization to fly that deathtrap you said the exact same thing.

    So, no thanks.

    • by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

      The first time you gave them authorization to fly that deathtrap you said the exact same thing.

      So, no thanks.

      To be fair, Dickson wasn't the FAA head when the 737MAX was approved.

      • "To be fair, Dickson wasn't the FAA head when the 737MAX was approved."

        Sure but his predecessor didn't tell us they were only 70% sure.

  • by hcs_$reboot ( 1536101 ) on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @11:32AM (#60738804)
    Go back two years, before the crashes, he'd say the same thing.
  • The Boeing 737-MAX - The only way you are allowed to play Russian Roulette in the air since weapons are banned on flights.
  • by theshowmecanuck ( 703852 ) on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @11:40AM (#60738862) Journal
    At one points I was putting up to 100K miles in the air per year. And I always tried to get on Boeing built planes. But in the last few years where they switched to using dodgy business practices to get market share (like the way they shut down Canadair sales till they had to be bought by Airbus) to outright lying on safety testing, I will try every way not to fly on Boeing built planes. They are not trustworthy. It would be like choosing to drive exploding Pintos. They might not explode all the time, but seriously why would you even give it the chance.
    • If you get back to air travel I wish you luck but if you do have to do 100k/year your going to be getting on a Boeing that has a 99.9998% chance of getting you there without incident. The Boeing adoption rate is going to faster with leaner times for airlines and Airbus made a big mistake with the superjumbo focus and ignoring the southwest/Ryanair 80% of the market segment.
      • This [wikipedia.org] is what I was talking about when I mentioned Canadair. The Airbus A220 is a narrow body regional aircraft that can seat up to 150 people, roughly. It started life a the Bombardier C Series project. So, Airbus can compete.

        Boeing used unscrupulous means (including outright lies) to keep Bombardier out of the market with their C Series planes in the USA. Bombardier actually had significant orders there severely delayed because of the bullshit Boeing pulled, including with Delta Airlines, to the point the

  • ... but there's more work to do?

    I'm walking to New Orleans.

  • Yeah, you can drive a car with one tire missing, you have the other four, but not as desirable to drive as a car with 4 tires.

  • Everyone else is willing to take that gamble though.
  • Not Gonna Do It (Score:5, Insightful)

    by organgtool ( 966989 ) on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @01:59PM (#60739632)
    I worked as a software engineering contractor for the FAA for almost a decade. Before starting the job, I had the impression that I would develop a fear of flying after learning the secrets and possible shortcuts the FAA may take to achieve an objective, in a similar fashion to how many former employees of fast food restaurants won't eat at those chains after they learn how the food is prepared. However, after learning the extent of planning and careful execution of every flight, I now feel way safer in the sky than I do on the road with a bunch of drunk drivers, teens texting, and various people who have no idea where they're going or what they're doing.

    With that said, I will never step foot on a 737 Max as long as it has MCAS. The entire point of that system is to translate the way a pilot is used to flying a completely different aircraft to the actual flight characteristics of the 737 Max. As a software developer with a lot of experience, user input translation rarely ever goes well and is not something that should ever be put in safety-critical systems. I believe it's quite plausible that Boeing fixed all of the known issues with MCAS but it's quite possible there are other unknown bugs as well as potential regressions added during the MCAS overhaul. And Boeing's cavalier attitude of "just disable MCAS if it misbehaves" really rubs me the wrong way. As I understand the situations that led to the two previous crashes, MCAS sent the plane hurtling towards the ground shortly after takeoff. The pilots were then forced to attempt to disable MCAS and perform emergency maneuvers on a plane that now has flight characteristics unlike anything they've been trained to handle with little time to do so before crashing into the ground. The entire concept of having pilots fly a plane that they aren't trained to handle and software will interpret and adjust their inputs is inherently unsafe by design in my opinion.

    The only way I would be fine with flying on a 737 Max is if it had no trace of MCAS and it was flown by pilots that have trained extensively with its particular flight characteristics. But everyone is free to gamble their own lives and the lives of their families if that's their prerogative.
    • by Ecuador ( 740021 )

      Exactly. Either the plane is safe for its pilots without MCAS, in which case it is not needed at all, or it is unsafe, in which case the option of "turning off MCAS" should not be on the table.
      And there is no distinction of "safe, but only after pilot training". If the pilots need to operate it without MCAS even only in case of emergency, surely they would have to be trained at flying without MCAS. So, is it safe or not. Take the stupid system off completely or don't certify the plane, certifying it "safe"

      • by amorsen ( 7485 )

        The 737 MAX is not safe without MCAS, which is why the system is still there with only a band-aid "fix".

        It can be flown without MCAS in an emergency, of course.

  • Trust is broken, and they said it was safe before.
  • but you go first.
  • Anyone who is 100% confident about anything is 100% wrong for believing that.
  • I'll be here to observe the results.

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